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"Hitler liberalized gun laws in Germany"
1/11/13

Posted on 01/11/2013 11:43:47 AM PST by pabianice

Need the help of some Freeper historian.

Over at DumpsterUndergeound, an "historian" is on a tear about guns. He claims that Hitler actually liberalized gun laws in Germany, allowing Germans to buy guns after the Treaty of Versailles had disarmed Germany. He then claims that disarming the Jews was actually a kindness in that it reduced their killings because the Jews couldn't fight back.

I know that DU is psychotic, but I need some historical facts about what actually happened to German gun rights after 1933.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; History
KEYWORDS: banglist; gun; hitler; hitlerguns
Link Only.
1 posted on 01/11/2013 11:43:52 AM PST by pabianice
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To: pabianice
This is a good little summary which contains examples of the actual signs posted by the Nazi's in Germany.

http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/registration_article/registration.html

2 posted on 01/11/2013 11:47:11 AM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (IMPEACH OBAMA)
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To: pabianice

Why do you bother? I applaud your desire to understand the “other side” and their arguments, but The post you linked to had all the hallmarks of a brainless leftist - vague references to supposed “facts,” and obsession with Nazis, and of course, a vulgar comment about Jesus and sex. Their political arguments always end with some kind of obscene sexual comment, without fail.

This type of degraded thinking is remarkably uniform among them


3 posted on 01/11/2013 11:50:06 AM PST by PGR88
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To: pabianice
He then claims that disarming the Jews was actually a kindness in that it reduced their killings because the Jews couldn't fight back.

That's the most ridiculous reasoning I have ever heard. (not directed at you, Pab)

4 posted on 01/11/2013 11:50:56 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: pabianice
Start here: Anti Semitic laws in Germany 1933-1944

Note in Sept. 1938 the Nazi's outlawed "Jewish Gun Merchants".

The Jews had guns, they just did not believe what was happening to them was actually happening.

5 posted on 01/11/2013 11:51:34 AM PST by Michael.SF. (Obama lied, Stevens died.)
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To: pabianice

He then claims that disarming the Jews was actually a kindness in that it reduced their killings because the Jews couldn't fight back
Thanks for letting us know about the Stormfront types on DU.
6 posted on 01/11/2013 11:54:54 AM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America

Bump #2, that pretty much covers it.


7 posted on 01/11/2013 11:55:45 AM PST by mnehring
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To: Michael.SF.

The Jews had guns, they just did not believe what was happening to them was actually happening.”

...they still don’t get it.


8 posted on 01/11/2013 12:01:59 PM PST by albie
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To: Michael.SF.

Going from a website with the phrase

“March 18 The Gun Law bans Jewish gun merchants” to

“The Jews had guns, they just did not believe what was happening to them was actually happening.”

is a bit much, don’t you think?

We all have read that most of the Jews of Germany (most of EVERYONE not a complete jackass) were shocked that en “enlightened” nation that produced Bach and Beethoven could become the shit-hole of death known as Nazi Germany, but I haven’t read anywhere that the majority of Jewish civilians in Germany were heavily armed but were just STUPEFIED into not shooting their way out of the round ups.

If you have sources that say otherwise, I would be interested in reading them.


9 posted on 01/11/2013 12:02:09 PM PST by Yehuda (If you were to choose between an armed teacher, or a class full of dead students, which would you)
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To: Michael.SF.
From the first paragraph of your link:

“Antisemitism and the persecution of Jews were central tenets of Nazi ideology. In their 25-point party program published in 1920, Nazi party members publicly declared their intention to segregate Jews from “Aryan” society and to abrogate their political, legal, and civil rights.”

Today's version goes like this:

Democrat party members have as their intention to segregate the people from the Constitution and to abrogate their political, legal, and civil rights.

10 posted on 01/11/2013 12:03:34 PM PST by PeaRidge
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To: pabianice
Hitler "liberalized" gun laws in that he enacted the same kind of laws that liberals want here in the U.S.

The 1968 GCA was patterned after the Nazi gun laws.

11 posted on 01/11/2013 12:07:26 PM PST by Disambiguator
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To: PeaRidge
Don't waste your time or dime on them. If they speak with purple tongue then they are Kool-Aid zombies.

Seek out those who have not yet been fully assimilated and encourage them to seek the truth. Always move towards higher ground and back away from those who refuse to acknowledge history and engage in a logical debate.

12 posted on 01/11/2013 12:11:28 PM PST by Mobilemitter (We must learn to fin >-)> for ourselves.........)
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To: Puppage

More it reduced how long it took to kill them.


13 posted on 01/11/2013 12:12:38 PM PST by Rusty0604
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To: pabianice
I've seen his discussion make the rounds before. Here's a link.
14 posted on 01/11/2013 12:21:08 PM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: pabianice

Anyone anywhere who dares try to rationalize what hitler, (may he burn in endless agony for all of eternity,) did to the Jews AND others is as insane as hitler was and as full of irrational hatred as the nazis who agreed with him...and they bear watching. Closely.


15 posted on 01/11/2013 12:21:55 PM PST by MestaMachine (Sometimes the smartest man in the room is standing in the midst of imbeciles.)
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To: pabianice
Here are two great PDF's on the issue to add to your library:

Nazi Firearms Law and the Disarming of the German Jews

On the NRA, Adolf Hitler, Gun Registration, and the Nazi Gun Laws: Exploding the Culture Wars (A Call to Historians)

16 posted on 01/11/2013 12:27:43 PM PST by Theoria
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To: pabianice

Juat making it up as they go along, I suppose.


17 posted on 01/11/2013 12:27:59 PM PST by Lazamataz (LAZ'S LAW: As an argument with liberals goes on, the probability of being called racist approaches 1)
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To: Yehuda
but I haven’t read anywhere that the majority of Jewish civilians in Germany were heavily armed

Don't put words in my mouth with your misinterpretations of what I said. Prior to 1933, Jews (in Germany)had the same rights as all Germans, because they were Germans in the eyes of the law.

Thus I could have said: "The Germans had guns..."

Does that mean "most Germans were heavily armed"? No, It means some Germans had guns, some did not. The Jews had the same rights to guns as did all Germans.

"Stupefied"? -- That is again an assumption on your part. Go the the Holocaust Museum in DC, or read Metaxas book on Bonhoeffer, both are good sources of information on the subject. Even many of the Germans at the time (1933-1938 did not believe what was happening, but that does not mean they were "stupified"

18 posted on 01/11/2013 12:35:22 PM PST by Michael.SF. (Obama lied, Stevens died.)
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To: pabianice

Liberals/Socialist really are crazy. They act like we don’t know history.

The Wehrmacht banned all guns in 1928. In 1934, the Nazis used gun control to jail any ‘dissenters’ who opposed their regime. In 1938, they removed some of the gun control restrictions for the NAZI PARTY and banned all weapons for the Jews.

And then Kristallnacht happened a few months later.

Socialists behave like Socialists no matter what country or era they come from.


19 posted on 01/11/2013 12:35:30 PM PST by Azeem (There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo.)
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To: PeaRidge
What surprised me about reading "Bonhoeffer" by Metaxas, was how the German people of the day were surprised that Hitler was actually implementing, as quickly as he did the evils that happened. Bonhoeffer's family was very well connected in the highest ranks of German government (not Nazi's) prior to the War and witnessed Hitler's take over.

It is an excellent book, very informative of an insiders look at Germany and actions taken by anti-Hitler Germans.

20 posted on 01/11/2013 12:51:15 PM PST by Michael.SF. (Obama lied, Stevens died.)
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To: pabianice

Here’s a story on the same topic in today’s Salon.

Seems to be the lib talking point du jour.

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_about_hitler/


21 posted on 01/11/2013 1:25:39 PM PST by rightwingintelligentsia (Be careful of believing something just because you want it to be true.)
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To: Theoria

Thank you for the links. It is clear Hitler loosened gun restrictions, but only for his supporters. Indeed, he tightened laws on gun makers, ensuring none were Jews, and disarmed the Jews of knives, clubs and all other means of defending themselves. The argument that he ensured those he planned to murder were unarmed is still valid.

Thus, in the streets of Bratislava, Krav Maga was born.


22 posted on 01/11/2013 1:50:33 PM PST by cizinec ("Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery.")
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To: pabianice

I’ve found this site (http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/) instructive for researching propaganda from that time period. I know it doesn’t directly answer your question, but the historical documents are very informative in relation to our current culture and how the sheeple are being deceived. So, just for future reference...


23 posted on 01/11/2013 2:03:03 PM PST by TennesseeGirl
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To: pabianice

seriously deluded liberals, making it up as they go along


24 posted on 01/11/2013 2:21:57 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Theoria
The Barnhardt citation (the second one) has a number of problems. Some of the claims cited as "historical" are, in fact, controversial. The references to case law are sometimes incorrect, and several are obsolete. For example, writing in 2004 he claims the 2nd Amendment was not incorporated. This is not true anymore; but it as also not true even then: the claim of Nonincorporation was held by a Federal circuit, not by the Supreme Court.
25 posted on 01/11/2013 2:29:06 PM PST by FredZarguna (In a well-regulated FReeper den, the right to create and deploy antimatter shall not be infringed.)
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To: pabianice

You have been called to be separated and apart from evil. Why brother; they don’t use logic, or history unless it suits their arguments. They seldom do, BTW! Lie-berals can’t change until shit happens and they have to grow up!


26 posted on 01/11/2013 2:29:22 PM PST by STD ( People say 'It's as plain as the nose on your face' but none of us can see theirs!)
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To: Azeem; Charles Martel
This is almost true, but not quite.

As an aside, the restrictive gun laws of the Weimer Republic are instructive, because one of the reasons they were tightened was to reduce the pervasive street violence between the NASDAP and Communists in the 1920's and 1930's.

Predictably, they failed.

In addition, the following qualifier moots many of the liberal claims that Hitler was a firearms libertarian; that firearms were proscribed for those "known to be engaged in activities hostile to the state;" Note that there is no consideration of Due Process in depriving German citizens (forget about the Jews, their RKBA was already disposed of) of their right to self-defense, nor was even any specific transgression required. All that was needed was that a German be "known" to be engaged in "activities."

By Nazi standards, everyone on this site is engaged in activities hostile to the state.

27 posted on 01/11/2013 2:46:07 PM PST by FredZarguna (In a well-regulated FReeper den, the right to create and deploy antimatter shall not be infringed.)
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To: pabianice

“He then claims that disarming the Jews was actually a kindness in that it reduced their killings because the Jews couldn’t fight back.”

It reduced the killings alright ... of the Nazis. They were nice and safe while rounding up Jews, and other “undesirables” for the gas chambers and ovens.


28 posted on 01/11/2013 2:58:46 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (The only thing that Hollywood gets right about guns is that criminals will always get them.)
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To: Charles Martel
The problem with the linked discussion is that it cites the documents, as if documentation actually matters to totalitarians. Ho Chi Minh produced a document similar to -- which in some cases quoted verbatim -- the Declaration of Independence. The Soviet "Constitution" contained declarations of rights missing from the traditions and laws of many Western Democracies.

So what?

Neither was worth the paper it was printed on.

The historical fact is that the Nazis used the gun laws of the Weimer Republic to extremes not previously used, and promoted gun (and other forms of martial) training for the purpose of cementing and strengthening the Nazi state. Where the law suited the purposes of the Party, it was embraced. Where it was inconvenient, it was ignored. A Nazi jurist (or more likely Gestapo officer) could drive a truck through this provision of the supposedly "liberalized" gun law: "[firearms are proscribed for those] known to be engaged in activities hostile to the state."

Promoting the interests of a tyrannical state is exactly the opposite of the purpose of the 2nd Amendment.

29 posted on 01/11/2013 2:59:47 PM PST by FredZarguna (In a well-regulated FReeper den, the right to create and deploy antimatter shall not be infringed.)
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To: Puppage

“That’s the most ridiculous reasoning I have ever heard.”

Let me introduce you to the writings of a lefty named Melissa Lafsky:

“We don’t know how much Kennedy was affected by her death, or what she’d have thought about arguably being a catalyst for the most successful Senate career in history. What we don’t know, as always, could fill a Metrodome.
Still, ignorance doesn’t preclude a right to wonder. So it doesn’t automatically make someone (aka, me) a Limbaugh-loving, aerial-wolf-hunting NRA troll for asking what Mary Jo Kopechne would have had to say about Ted’s death, and what she’d have thought of the life and career that are being (rightfully) heralded.

Who knows — maybe she’d feel it was worth it.”


30 posted on 01/11/2013 3:23:25 PM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: Charles Martel

0.o This looks like the same kinda stuff the dummies have been talking about wanting to me. I’m getting whiplash & bookmarking for later when it’s quiet here. I don’t know (yet) what Hitler has to do with the Second Amendment.

To Laz- This is one thing I know we can count on. It sounds like they’re throwing everything now, hoping something will stick. But even they can’t keep their story straight.


31 posted on 01/11/2013 3:41:58 PM PST by KGeorge
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To: pabianice

It may not have any connection to reality, but it will be picked up as published fact by the left now.


32 posted on 01/11/2013 8:15:51 PM PST by correctthought ("Obamunism is a temporary setback on the road to freedom" - Liberty Prime)
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