Skip to comments.Genomes link aboriginal Australians to Indians
Posted on 01/15/2013 10:52:22 AM PST by Theoria
Mingling of genes four millennia ago suggests continent was not isolated after all.
Some aboriginal Australians can trace as much as 11% of their genomes to migrants who reached the island around 4,000 years ago from India, a study suggests. Along with their genes, the migrants brought different tool-making techniques and the ancestors of the dingo, researchers say1.
This scenario is the result of a large genetic analysis outlined today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences1. It contradicts a commonly held view that Australia had no contact with the rest of the world between the arrival of the first humans around 45,000 years ago and the coming of Europeans in the eighteenth century.
Australia is thought to represent one of the earliest migrations for humans after they left Africa, but it seemed pretty isolated after that, says Mark Stoneking, a geneticist at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, who led the study.
Irina Pugach, a postdoctoral researcher in Stonekings laboratory, discovered signs of the Indian migration by comparing genetic variation across the entire genomes of 344 individuals, including aboriginal Australians from the Northern Territory, highlanders from Papua New Guinea, several populations from Southeast Asian and India and a handful of people from the United States and China.
Pugach confirmed an ancient association between the genomes of Australians, New Guineans and the Mamanwa a Negrito group from the Philippines. These populations diverged around 36,000 years ago, suggesting that they all descended from an early southward migration out of Africa.
(Excerpt) Read more at nature.com ...
And we’re really all black, right??
What percentage Neanderthal are they?
“And were really all black, right??”
No, but from a genetic standpoint, human beings are all but identical.
Compared to any other animal or species in the world, humanity has almost zero genetic diversity.
The differences we see as “major” (skin color, height, etc...) are from a genetic standpoint very minor.
There is no consensus.
It was my understanding that the theory that neanderthals co-mingled with humans had been disproven.
I thought the prevailing theory was that humans (with their superior skill sets) moved into neanderthal territory and essentially wiped them out.
Sri Lanka is just off the coast of southern India. Then it is only about 600 miles east to the southern archipelogo of Malaysia and Indonesia. And that is only if you didn't want to start out by land from northeast India, trek across to Burma, down into Thailand and south into Malaysia and then across to Indonesia. Though, I expect a mostly land route might have (a) taken longer, (b) met more people already settled along the way and (c) experienced more migrants settling, or being killed somewhere before they ever got down to Indonesia and Australia.
It is even less difficult after crossing the ocean from Sri Lanka to just island hop down the archipelogo of southern Malaysia and Indonesia until you are hopping along very southern Indonesia and in the Timor Sea. That leaves a route of less than 250 miles south across to northern Australia. Don't ask if they just got across from Indonesia to Australia by accident - taken that way by oceans currents??? - or if someone had once made it back to them from such an accident and informed them of a big land in the "southern sea", and remembered how to get there. Who knows??/p>
Given what I see as the ease of it, there must have been a lot to the living context in that part of Asia that made such travels/migrations less frequent than they seem to have been - or maybe a great many of such travellers either did NOT survive the journey or did not survive in equal numbers in barren northern Australia. We can only wonder.
It just seems that the journey was not extremely difficult, but an 11% contribution to what is itself a small gene pool suggests there was either, for whatever reason, not a whole lot who undertook the journey, or not whole lot who had great success in it.
I am sure many prognosticating cultural anthropologists are about to tell us they know why the migrations from the Indian subcontinent to Australian were as small as they seem to have been. I never accept their guesses. I have no problem leaving unanswerable questions unanswered.
No. For what it’s worth, NOVA just had a show last week that confirmed that most populations, except sub Saharan africans, have Neanderthal genes. Europeans apparently have the most. It is thought that these Neanderthal genes help confer immunity to many diseases.
Non-Africans Are Part Neanderthal, Genetic Research Shows
July 18, 2011 Some of the human X chromosome originates from Neanderthals and is found exclusively in people outside Africa, according to an international team of researchers led by Damian Labuda of the Department of Pediatrics at the University of Montreal and the CHU Sainte-Justine Research Center. The research was published in the July issue of Molecular Biology and Evolution
I know it is a much later date[3rd to 11th century], but to the uninformed, Madagascar was discovered/inhabited by Malay/Indonesians!
I enjoyed the piece on the Maori
regarding the other two books
did you read them (I never have)
and have you ever read the reviews on the first one on Amazon,
not altogether flattering I’d say
Sea travel dates back forever, and I'm never surprised where castaways and sea drift end up.
Btw, they have a new Kon Tiki out.
Maybe those researchers are correct, and humans have not all evolved to the same degree, but I really have a hard time buying into that conclusion.
They actually have Denisovan gene.
the only thing that resonates with me from the thesis (which he borrowed) by the Philippino-American author is his premise that migrations from mainland Asia and/or it’s nearby islands to points east and south were neither one-off events or one directional
that I have always believed
and though that author cannot and does establish real proof of it, nor can I, it makes more sense
than believing that no matter how some persons migrated or how far that migration was, that no one ever wanted and no one ever managed to return back to where they had migbrated from, and that others did not learn about how to do that, and over time some of the migration did not go forth and some back as well, and some in new directions and from new places to older new places - forming known trade and migration routes over long expanses of time
the idea makes “human sense” to me
the human mind has not grown in thousands of years; the genetic wiring for the brain’s nueral net has been there a long time; humans have always been smart, inventive, creative, curious, determined and willing to change
it may have taken us a very long time to develop our tools from pre-stone age to now, but we have always been very smart at using the tools we did knew about, and even long long ago we did some amazing things with them too
“trade networks” across vast land and ocean expanses??
sounds to me like something any of age of man would accomplish in some way
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Thanks Theoria.Some aboriginal Australians can trace as much as 11% of their genomes to migrants who reached the island around 4,000 years ago from India... the migrants brought different tool-making techniques and the ancestors of the dingo... It contradicts a commonly held view that Australia had no contact with the rest of the world between the arrival of the first humans around 45,000 years ago and the coming of Europeans in the eighteenth centuryThe old view is absurdly stupid anyway, as is Clovis-First-and-Only.
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New research published in 2010 says that most people of European ancestry have 2-5% Neanderthal genes.
Correct....and, Asians have more Neanderthal DNA than Europeans. Africans have none to very little Neanderthal DNA.
I think the Neanderthals were the brainest of all the humans.
During the right season and monsoonal wind, the journey could be made over from India even with a fairly crude craft.
“During the right season and monsoonal wind, the journey could be made over from India even with a fairly crude craft.”
My intuition suggests to me that the first occasions of that were “accidents” - unintentionally carried that far by the ocean and air currents; and some made it “back” (to wherever), and over time, by word of mouth over time, people learned to take advantage of the currents; whether from India and/or Sri Lanka just to the shores of the Malay-Indonesian archilelogo, or all the way from India to Australia.
While their brain sizes were larger then morden day humans brain, sizes have very little to do with intelligence. Neanderthals were not brainer then modern humans. Neanderthal stone tools were rudimentary compared to modern Homo Sapiens from the same period of time. They didn’t stand a chance against the advances in intelligence made my modern humans.
Roman chariots were rudimentary compared to a Ford Mustang...the Romans were no less intelligent than people today.
We are Neanderthals.
Every feature that is used to describe Neanderthals can be found in Modern Humans today. For example, some Australian Aboriginies have a more severe brow ridge than did the Neanderthals, etc.
“Roman chariots were rudimentary compared to a Ford Mustang...the Romans were no less intelligent than people today.”
I am comparing human and neanderthal stone tools from the same period of time. Roman chariots and Ford Mustang were a few thousand years apart. Besides even homo erectus had very intelligent tools.
“We are Neanderthals”
No we are not. Human and neanderthal are two completely separate branches of human sub species that followed two completely separate paths of evolution. We had a common ancestor and we may have exchanged genetic material but neanderthal are most definitely not our direct ancestors.
Neanderthal physical structure, bone structure and size of the skull is totally different from modern human being.
It recently came to my attention that children with ADD/ADHD have brains that do not stop producing and expanding neural growth until their mid-20’s. Normal brain growth of neural networks ceases and begins pruning of unused networks about age 19-20, but not so for ADD/ADHD.
So, humans may not be experiencing a “growth”, per se, in the size of the brain, but there may be something about ADD and ADHD that should be carefully looked at and NOT be treated with psychotropic drugs.
My nephew was tested twice for ADD and found to be borderline. We did not allow him to be treated with drugs and took him out of private school to home school. He thrived, as his education was driven by his curiosity, and not teacher curriculum. He completed his schooling at age sixteen and tested out with an IQ of 157.
“My nephew was tested twice for ADD and found to be borderline. We did not allow him to be treated with drugs and took him out of private school to home school. He thrived, as his education was driven by his curiosity, and not teacher curriculum.”
some of what you say does not surprise me
some recent studies have shown that autistic children and child prodigies have something in common, while the autistic has that commonality in excess over the usual trial prodigy - the ability to carry on very concentrated mental focus on something - something they are doing mentally
the autistic has trouble stopping and channeling it, and becomes either stuck or reacts in a sort of “shut down” to try and stop it
the child prodigy is able to channel the ability to achieve great and concentrated focus and put it to great use
due to the great ability of their mental focus, both have deficits in socializing, and again the autistic more so
ADD and ADHD seem to have some element of the opposite of that
amd maybe therefore ADD/ADHD researchers ought to look at the autistic/child prodigy research and see if, in terms the brain sites/brain chemisty/brain function/neural networks identified as relevant and in common to the autistic and child prodigy groups, that they find the opposite going on with persons with ADD/ADHD
I sincerely believe there are not one-size-fits-all solutions to children with these problems.
A close friend has a child who early-on was recognized as autistic. By the time he was nearing primary school age his verbal language skills were about that of a two year old. On the other hand he had a fantastic level of visual perception ability and he began drawing.
The visually amazing thing with his drawings were that the human and animal figures he drew were nearly, though not quite Picasso-like, but when you looked at the photo or image her drew his own version from, you realized that what he drew WAS totally recognizable as an odd version of the original; some element or elements of the human or animal figures often appeared to be as if he could see the original from a totally different viewing angle than it was depicted - but you still recognized how the essence resembled the original
for him, kindergarten through 2nd grade home schooling provided no improvement in his verbal or socializing skills, he was frequently like austistic/ADD simultaneously - he would ramble verbally (nearly like baby-babble) in the same manner over and over, while physically active and while physically withdrawn, and he often teeter-tottered between the two, sometimes continuing the same rambling while he drew something
after he was “mainstreamed” in the third grade, he started improving
he still lags in some indicators with his 4th grade peers, but keeps improving and he still continues his art