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U.S. Navy Chief Petty Officer initiation ill-advisedly abolished
The Washington Times ^ | Tuesday, January 15, 2013 | Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - Lower 9th Ward Conservative by Bill Randall Read more: http://communiti

Posted on 01/17/2013 12:20:18 PM PST by Kenika

What has the U.S. Navy done? Will it prove harmful, or will it even matter in the grand scheme of things? My prediction is that this will exponentially increase the number of glorified managers in the Navy’s senior enlisted ranks.

In the aftermath of the “Tailhook” incident at the Las Vegas Hilton

Read more: http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/lower-9th-ward-conservative/2013/jan/15/us-navy-chief-petty-officer-initiation-ill-advised/#comment-771142230#ixzz2IGXItfa1 Follow us: @wtcommunities on Twitter

(Excerpt) Read more at communities.washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; History; Military/Veterans; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: military; tradition

1 posted on 01/17/2013 12:20:31 PM PST by Kenika
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To: Kenika

My uncle, a WW2 Flying Chief, died this past year. I am sure he would have a lot to say on this subject and nothing in support of the change. He often remarked he loved being in a position wherein he had the respect of both “his men” and those whom he served under.


2 posted on 01/17/2013 12:39:42 PM PST by Mouton (108th MI Group.....68-71)
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To: Kenika

Of all our services, it appears that the Navy is the most politically correct.

One would think they’d be trying to make up for Carter and McCain - a task which would take at least a millenia.


3 posted on 01/17/2013 12:40:50 PM PST by Da Coyote
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To: Kenika

How about a clue of what this is about?


4 posted on 01/17/2013 12:41:31 PM PST by ansel12 (Cruz said "conservatives trust Sarah Palin that if she says this guy is a conservative, that he is")
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To: Kenika
I have been on both sides of a Chief's initiation. I have had to deal with uninitiated chiefs who had trouble getting paperwork etc through an initiated chief's office. I have been at honorary chief's initiations where a civilian warranty engineer riding the ship for an extended period was deemed worthy. I always figured the initiation process was kinda like a pack of dogs peeing on a new dog so he smelled like everyone else in the pack. Supposedly the Hell's Angels actually pee on their initiates. I am really ambivalent about initiations. On the one hand they are useful on the other they can cause embarrassment and rifts between initiated and uninitiated chiefs. By definition some of the “trials” are harassment. The line in the chief's creed about the embarrassments being done not to humiliate but to teach that humility is good really doesn't work if there are not some humiliating exercises. Boot camp isn't what it used to be either. Neither are 180 or shellback etc initiations. What's an old salt to do?
5 posted on 01/17/2013 12:50:40 PM PST by dblshot (I am John Galt.)
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To: Kenika

“Bill Randall is a retired U.S. Navy Master Chief.”

Not only that, I relieved him in 1992 as the COMSIXTHFLT Meteorologist. He has run for Congress in Raleigh, NC and is one hell of a man and shipmate!

I hope he runs again, when the time comes. He is one of those goshdarned conservative minorities that the left hates.


6 posted on 01/17/2013 12:54:08 PM PST by wxgesr (I want to be the first person to surf on another planet.)
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To: ansel12

Thank you. I’d say more about sloppy and lazy posters. But then WE are the the lazy ones who can’t just click a link.


7 posted on 01/17/2013 12:54:38 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Mouton

Former CPO (HMC/FMF) who retired as a LCDR. Made Chief off the ‘87 selection board and was in the last initiation that really was a wild and crazy free-for-all. After that year, the Navy gradually began trying to “clean up” the initiation process, as the Master Chief in the article notes. I’ve seen this one coming for a loooong time. Ever since G.W. Bush made Mike Mullen CNO back in 2005, and then CJCS in 2007, the heat being put on the Navy Chief community has been building.

Mullen was no field operator, out there slinging lead in a rife company, but a surface warfare type. And fairly liberal to boot, plus a politician. CPOs that didn’t see him coming from over the horizon line missed a huge warning flare being shot into the air.

Now Navy Chiefs are what? Without the initiation and the process you go through to earn those anchors what’s to set the CPO apart from a Navy E6 or a SNCO in the other services? I spent many years on the “green side” (Marine Corps, as a Hospital Corpsman and then as a commissioned officer), and even over there “the Chief” was THE chief and everybody knew it. Now? Meh...


8 posted on 01/17/2013 12:59:12 PM PST by BigKahuna ("When somebody's not getting the job done, you gotta let him go.")
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To: Mouton

My Dad didn’t make Chief, but he was one proud Lieutenant wearing his Good Conduct Medal. I only made E4 and my oldest Son got out an E6.


9 posted on 01/17/2013 1:01:56 PM PST by Elderberry
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To: Kenika
The U.S. Navy CPO wears a unique insignia on his/her collar device, the fouled anchor.
It's not unique - the Marine Corps emblem has the same "fouled anchor" ...

The article bemoans the loss of "time honored tradition" - well, how about the Navy's new "work clothes?"
Why does a sailor need blue cammies?
10 posted on 01/17/2013 1:02:14 PM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: ansel12
How about a clue of what this is about?

Not a very well-written article. The writer needs to present the "five W's" early on.

11 posted on 01/17/2013 1:03:39 PM PST by Fiji Hill (Io Triumphe!)
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To: ansel12
How about a clue of what this is about?

Current MCPON (Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy) watered down the new chief initiation ceremony. A new chief "select" goes through an "induction" lasting several weeks before they get to pin on their anchors. The final day consists of an all-night, very physically rigorous affair. The MCPON eased up on this last day event stating something along the lines that exhaustion leads to poor judgment.

Not the first time it's happened. Alcohol was banned from initiation ceremonies years ago. Not surprising either. In today's navy, it has become very easy to torpedo your career and the MCPON knows this.

12 posted on 01/17/2013 1:04:46 PM PST by Drew68
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To: Responsibility2nd
This is the internet and we can click all day long to find out what is on the other end.

These guys need to remember to give readers a hint of why they need to visit a site.

Wow, this is for me! I used a version of these in the army.

13 posted on 01/17/2013 1:05:18 PM PST by ansel12 (Cruz said "conservatives trust Sarah Palin that if she says this guy is a conservative, that he is")
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To: Drew68

Alcohol was banned from CPO initiations? Now that’s going waaaaay over the line. ;-)

What about “the box?” “Truth serum?” Goldfish? Defense attorneys? Anything left?


14 posted on 01/17/2013 1:07:50 PM PST by BigKahuna ("When somebody's not getting the job done, you gotta let him go.")
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To: oh8eleven

The article bemoans the loss of “time honored tradition” - well, how about the Navy’s new “work clothes?”
Why does a sailor need blue cammies?


Not to mention the new cammies are highly flamable.

I went through the first round of uniform changes in the ‘70s. Really hard to keep the black suit looking good stored in a sea-going locker aboard a sub.

BTW, Chiefs can do as they please in my book. They ran the navy.


15 posted on 01/17/2013 1:11:30 PM PST by maine yankee (I got my Governor at 'Marden's')
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To: ansel12
A very useful thread....

You do know that you can post more than 10 words in a thread, don't you?
 

I was in a thread yesterday where the OP was griping that no on was replying regarding the contents of the article. I told her that since she didn't include any of the relevant points in her little 10 word thread, then why should we discuss them?

16 posted on 01/17/2013 1:15:41 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Kenika

Short of my marriage and the births of my two boys, CPO Initiation was the best thing that ever happened to me. Sincerely saddened with this news. Where have all the good men gone?


17 posted on 01/17/2013 1:16:43 PM PST by Mathews (Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV))
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To: Kenika

Thanks for posting. Very interesting discussion and especially the comments. Reminds me of my father-in-law becoming a Shellback in WWII. Real big deal. It does appear that several parts could have been altered to consider the New Navy rather than throw everything in the crapper. If you have time the video about USS Forrestal tragedy is exceptional. There walked some real heroes and patriots to the core. May their sacrifice not be forgotten.


18 posted on 01/17/2013 1:19:06 PM PST by Portcall24
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To: oh8eleven

>>Why does a sailor need blue cammies?

So “man overboard!” will be almost impossible to find?


19 posted on 01/17/2013 1:20:06 PM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Da Coyote
Of all our services, it appears that the Navy is the most politically correct.

I don't know about the other services but today's Navy is as politically correct as any college campus. I tried my hand at college during the 1990s at the height of the PC era, enlisted a little later in life ten years ago and the environment is about the same.

Behavior that was sanctioned, if not encouraged 10-20 years ago will now get you a quick ticket home. My WWII vet, LCDR retired grandfather is probably rolling over in his grave to see what his beloved navy has become. Even the chiefs I know who have 18-20 under their belt can't believe the changes they've seen over their careers. As my current OIC put it, this is now the "make my day" navy as in "Go ahead. Just try something stupid!"

If you're a sailor who likes to get drunk in port and bang hookers, you'd better watch your back. They're not sweeping misbehavior under the rug like they used to. That's no joke.

20 posted on 01/17/2013 1:22:16 PM PST by Drew68
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To: BigKahuna
what’s to set the CPO apart from a Navy E6 or a SNCO in the other services?

As somebody who never went beyond E5, I would have never known the difference other than the fact that my new CPO(sel) was suddenly grouchy and tired all of the time.

The khaki's were enough to set him apart for me.

Having never gone through it, I can't give as educated an opinion as you can. But it seemed silly to me at the time. CPO(sel) would be falling asleep at his desk and yelling at us all day because he hadn't slept and was getting messed with all the time.
21 posted on 01/17/2013 1:23:09 PM PST by mmichaels1970
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To: oh8eleven
Why does a sailor need blue cammies?

In case they fell off the boat they can blend in with the waves.

22 posted on 01/17/2013 1:24:02 PM PST by USAF80
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To: BigKahuna
What about “the box?” “Truth serum?” Goldfish? Defense attorneys? Anything left?

I dunno. Hope to find out soon! I took my very first AOC exam this morning.

23 posted on 01/17/2013 1:24:13 PM PST by Drew68
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To: oh8eleven
Why does a sailor need blue cammies?

For the same reason they took the black beret away from the Airborne Rangers and gave it to everybody. To promote self-esteem. I was with the real Old Navy. They didn't do self-esteem, they did self-respect.

24 posted on 01/17/2013 2:00:00 PM PST by Kenton (Finally, a charity worth supporting - Wounded Warrior Project! Donate today.)
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To: oh8eleven

“Why does a sailor need blue cammies?”

Why do all of our military folks wear cammies all the time, even when travelling off station on leave or liberty?

Soldiers on leave, pictured surprising one of their children at school, or wherever, are wearing the same uniform they wore on patrol in a south Asian desert. That service “green” uniform that Army folk wore while home on leave or on liberty (a Navy term,I know; can’t help it) back in my day looked so neat and dressy.
Signed, Old Fogie, one-time sailor.


25 posted on 01/17/2013 2:05:13 PM PST by Elsiejay
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To: oh8eleven

One of my boys in officer and works in a Think Tank. Off he goes in those blue camies every morning. The troops love them. I don’t!


26 posted on 01/17/2013 3:03:34 PM PST by Coldwater Creek (He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadows of the Almighty Psalm 91:)
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To: Kenika; All

To all of you who served/are serving, THANK YOU for your service. I’m just glad my dad and stepdad, both retired Navy Chiefs, aren’t around to see what has happened to their beloved Navy.


27 posted on 01/17/2013 3:14:51 PM PST by Fast Moving Angel (A moral wrong is not a civil right: No religious sanction of an irreligious act.)
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To: Elsiejay
Why do all of our military folks wear cammies all the time ...
Oh boy, you hit one of my "hot spots" dead center. It makes me sick to my stomach to see cammies out in public.
Even worse, I see officers - even generals - on TV answering questions or whatever in cammies. Despicable.
As a former Marine, I wouldn't have been caught dead wearing cammies off base.
Heck, we had weekly award ceremonies at Camp Lejeune (late 60s), and even then we all wore dress uniforms.
28 posted on 01/17/2013 4:27:02 PM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: oh8eleven

“As a former Marine, I wouldn’t have been caught dead wearing cammies off base.”

We took pride in a well “spit polished” pair of black or brown oxfords. Now desert combat boots are standard foot garb. No doubt there’s a very good reason for this. Or not??


29 posted on 01/17/2013 4:40:52 PM PST by Elsiejay
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To: Elsiejay
Now desert combat boots are standard foot garb. No doubt there’s a very good reason for this. Or not??
Cuts down on inventory and additional cost. Like during VN - we had standard issue black boots stateside, and got issued jungle boots in 'Nam.
Today, the brown boots may not look as "spiffy", but wear well in/out of a combat zone.
BTW, brown "rough-outs" were Marine Corps standard issue back in the day, before the switch to black. What goes around comes around.
30 posted on 01/17/2013 5:03:48 PM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Drew68
I took my very first AOC exam this morning.

Good luck to you. I took the ETC test 12 times easily made board every time, and retired an E6, with a good record. The last time I took it I spent less then thirty minutes, and still made board. I saw the Chiefs, as a good ol' boys club that thought they were better then the rest of the Navy. There are some good ones, but they are getting harder and harder to find. I am glad I served I had a good time and would do it again, but I am also glad I am done, and someone else has the watch. The PC BS was about all I could handle.

31 posted on 01/17/2013 5:27:03 PM PST by DYngbld (I have read the back of the Book and we WIN!!!!)
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To: oh8eleven

that color scheme is the stupidest thing I have ever seen


32 posted on 01/18/2013 3:26:02 AM PST by Psiman
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