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Experts on deception say everyone lies
Associated Press ^ | Jan 18, 2013 3:49 PM EST | Helen O’Neill

Posted on 01/18/2013 7:05:13 PM PST by Olog-hai

Lance Armstrong may have been branded liar and cheat of the month, but experts say he's not as different from the rest of us as we’d like to believe. Lying, they say, is part of the human condition, something most people do every day. And that’s reflected in the cavalcade of celebrities cowed into confession after their deceptions were exposed—from Richard Nixon’s denial of the Watergate break-in to Bill Clinton’s denial of an affair with an intern, from drug-abusing baseball players to fraudulent Wall Street executives. …

“Lying is extraordinarily common and we couldn’t get along without it,” says David Livingstone Smith, a professor of philosophy at the University of New England in Maine, and author of the book Why We Lie. “It greases the wheels of society.” Lying, Smith says, “is as automatic and unconscious as sweating.” He points out that parents teach children at an early age that “it’s OK to lie, just not to me.” Kids are told to pretend to be grateful for a Christmas gift they don’t want. And they witness their parents lying—about the tooth fairy, and the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.

Wise people throughout history have understood that lying and deception is part of life, Smith says: “There is no commandment that says ‘thou shalt not lie,’” though there is a commandment against bearing false witness. …

(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Education; Science; Society
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Wow on that last paragraph. Reading the translation of the Hebrew words for “bear false witness” from Exodus 20:16 and Deuteronomy 5:20, it can be more accurately rendered in English as “speak lying testimony”. Try again, Smith.
1 posted on 01/18/2013 7:05:17 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

>> “Lying is extraordinarily common and we couldn’t get along without it,” says David Livingstone Smith

DON’T BELIEVE A THING THIS GUY SAYS.


2 posted on 01/18/2013 7:07:46 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: Olog-hai

Yeah, you know, every time I lie it costs other people millions of dollars and championships as well. /s


3 posted on 01/18/2013 7:08:17 PM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (IMPEACH OBAMA)
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To: Olog-hai

So they expect me to believe them?


4 posted on 01/18/2013 7:09:24 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (HealthCare IS NOT a right. The RIGHT to keep and bear arms is.)
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To: Olog-hai

We didn’t do the whole Santa Claus, Easter Bunny thing with our kids for just this reason. I couldn’t look my kids in the eye and lie to them. They’re all adults now, love Christmas and have no problem with our not playing the Santa Claus game. People used to tell me we were taking all the fun out of Christmas, but nothing could have been further from the truth.


5 posted on 01/18/2013 7:10:13 PM PST by cantfindagoodscreenname (I really hate not knowing what was said in the deleted posts....)
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To: Olog-hai
Look....I pooted in bed this morning and convinced wifey that it was just me burping.

No harm, no foul.

6 posted on 01/18/2013 7:12:38 PM PST by ErnBatavia (Piffle....)
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To: Olog-hai

Sigh....Nixon never denied the Watergate break-in. I wonder how old this guy is.


7 posted on 01/18/2013 7:16:02 PM PST by JoeDetweiler
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To: Olog-hai

This is the same stuff state-controlled media was saying about Clinton in the “I did not have sex with that woman” era.


8 posted on 01/18/2013 7:16:09 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (TYRANNY: When the people fear the politicians. LIBERTY: When the politicians fear the people.)
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To: Nervous Tick

This is article is BS!

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have a date with 3 Victoria Secret supermodels who will also be showing the latest lingerie line in a private suite at the Beverly Hills Hotel later tonight...


9 posted on 01/18/2013 7:17:36 PM PST by max americana (Make the world a better place by punching a liberal in the face)
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To: JoeDetweiler

Certainly not the expert on deception he claims to be. Maybe an expert on self-deception?


10 posted on 01/18/2013 7:18:40 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
"All Cretans are liars!" - spoken by a Cretan.

I refuse to be defined by the likes of Bill Clinton and others of his ilk!



Keep Faith with the Fallen of Benghazi! Let the Obama Regime, for once, tell the Truth!

Fiat Justitia, Ruat Coelum!

Genuflectimus non ad principem sed ad Principem Pacis!

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. (Isaiah 49:1 KJV)

11 posted on 01/18/2013 7:19:48 PM PST by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines RVN 1969 - St. Michael the Archangel defend us in Battle!)
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To: Olog-hai; a fool in paradise; Slings and Arrows
I don't lie, I sit!


12 posted on 01/18/2013 7:21:50 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Olog-hai
Ever thing he says is a lie -Kirk

I'm lying to you - Spock

13 posted on 01/18/2013 7:22:23 PM PST by Idaho_Cowboy (Ride for the Brand. Joshua 24:15)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

There is some credence to what he says in general. You have to look at the motivation behind the lie and the age and experience of the individual as well as the circumstances. Some lies are told not to hurt the feelings of others while others are told for gain / profit or to outright decieve so the answer isn’t black and white because there is a wide spectrum. As you get older and more experienced you learn there are consequences to lying; damage to your reputation, harming others, lack of trust, etc... You also learn that you can just tell it like it is and not feel embarrassed about something that you may have told a white lie. It’s the human condition; we are not robots and were born into sin, however if the government can get people to feel guilt about it and regulate it they can figure out to turn a profit from it. Don’t buy into bs liberal ideaologies and news articles. There’s always a hook...


14 posted on 01/18/2013 7:24:50 PM PST by jsanders2001
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To: jsanders2001

Forgot to mention I’m an investigator and lied to on a regular basis...


15 posted on 01/18/2013 7:28:14 PM PST by jsanders2001
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To: Olog-hai
Lance Armstrong may have been branded liar and cheat of the month, but experts say he's not as different from the rest of us as we’d like to believe.

This is BS with an agenda. Sure, if someone asks me how I'm doing, I might say "I'm fine" even if I'm anything but.

However, if someone knows better and says so, I don't think I'll tell the world they're lying about me and then sue them, only to later cry to Oprah how they were telling the truth all along.

Speaking of liars, what is the real intent of the author of this article?

16 posted on 01/18/2013 7:31:40 PM PST by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

You mean....you mean.....There is no Santa Rabbit? Well, there’s another childhood memory shot in the donkey.


17 posted on 01/18/2013 7:32:47 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Olog-hai
Reading the translation of the Hebrew words for “bear false witness” from Exodus 20:16 and Deuteronomy 5:20, it can be more accurately rendered in English as “speak lying testimony”. Try again, Smith.

OK; to give testimony is to provide evidence in court to facts.

How is that different than bearing witness?

I believe the intent of the commandment is that one is not to give false evidence to a court and I have heard biblical scholars say as much.

18 posted on 01/18/2013 7:40:39 PM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Olog-hai

We all tell ‘white lies’, I sure don’t want to tell someone their new baby is ugly. But - Armstrong told lies for his own glory and gain, and that makes it very wrong.


19 posted on 01/18/2013 7:41:55 PM PST by potlatch
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To: blam
"Forget the truth! LIES keep you together! LIES enhance your relationship, they enhance your love..."

Sam Kinison

20 posted on 01/18/2013 7:43:10 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: Olog-hai

Can we conclude, then, tha these “experts” are liars?


21 posted on 01/18/2013 7:46:45 PM PST by YHAOS
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To: Pontiac
I'm speaking of the actual Hebrew words (see here for example). Not to mention, perjury is lying either way.
22 posted on 01/18/2013 7:47:14 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: SunkenCiv

Lol, that’s only if she askes you ‘does this dress make my butt look big’? Finesse it then.....


23 posted on 01/18/2013 7:50:00 PM PST by potlatch
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To: Olog-hai

I have never lied. Not once in my life! And that’s the Gospel truth!


24 posted on 01/18/2013 7:50:37 PM PST by OldPossum
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To: Idaho_Cowboy
Actually, that was Harry Mudd who said the latter phrase (1:32) . . . “Now listen to this carefully, Norman—I am lying” . . .
25 posted on 01/18/2013 7:52:36 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Live Strong!

Lie Stronger!


26 posted on 01/18/2013 7:56:43 PM PST by urbanpovertylawcenter (where the law and poverty collide in an urban setting and sparks fly)
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To: SunkenCiv

Well...the truth often does hurt, eh?


27 posted on 01/18/2013 7:59:00 PM PST by blam
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To: Olog-hai

28 posted on 01/18/2013 7:59:47 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: jsanders2001
About white lies. There are no such things.

White lies are told not only to protect the other person, but to protect the teller from fallout .

You know how I found this out?

Trying on an outfit that I loved, I walked out of the dressing room and asked my husband how it looked, (though I sort of knew the truth).

“Honey” he says to me “that not only makes you look dumpy, but it looks like you are an old woman trying to stay young”

God bless him for not telling the white lie to spare my feelings - or himself from a pre conceived wrath of my feelings.

Yes, my feelings were hurt. But that was my problem and I loved him more for telling me the truth. Especially because I knew the truth, but wanted to hear something else.

White lies are complicated when told, simple and perhaps brutal when they are not.

29 posted on 01/18/2013 8:08:19 PM PST by KittenClaws (You may have to fight a battle more than once in order to win it." - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: Olog-hai
Thank you for the link.

It does not however make me disagree with the translation used by the author; namely the King James translation of the commandment against bearing false witness. Don’t get me wrong there are plenty of problems in the King James.

Yes perjury is lying however it is lying in court when one has spoken an oath (to god) that what one says is to the best of one’s knowledge the truth.

It is an important difference.

30 posted on 01/18/2013 8:10:35 PM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac
Does not make other lies any more legitimate in the eyes of God. Remember Revelation 21:8.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
“Liars” here comes from Greek pseudesin.
31 posted on 01/18/2013 8:16:18 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

I had the opposite experience. And I pity children who were raised by literal-minded parents who don’t know the difference between the world of the imagination and lying.


32 posted on 01/18/2013 8:16:25 PM PST by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: Olog-hai

Desmond Morris pointed out that most people are very poor liars, but often get away with it because most people are also very bad at detecting lies.

There was a show on Discovery channel a few years ago, ‘Secrets of Interrogation’, despite the salacious title it was in great part about how cops and others tell if someone under interrogation is lying. Once the telltales were pointed out it was much more obvious.

Truly good ‘liars’ can make a lot of money, be it in sales. acting or politics.


33 posted on 01/18/2013 8:19:15 PM PST by RedStateRocker (Nuke Mecca, Deport all illegals, abolish the IRS, DEA and ATF.)
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To: RedStateRocker
Yes, and of course in The Art Of War, the first main statement on war was this:
All war is based on deception. (1:18)
Earlier in the treatise, Sun Tzu admonishes adherence to what he calls the Moral Law (most likely Confucian morality).
34 posted on 01/18/2013 8:30:49 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Then “experts on deception” lie too. Being experts they’re probably better at it.


35 posted on 01/18/2013 8:57:15 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: Olog-hai

It cost 4 lives the last time Obama and hillary lied and is about to cost more.


36 posted on 01/18/2013 8:57:57 PM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Olog-hai

I’m certain Helen O’Neill is a democrat.
Everyone does not lie.
I don’t associate with liars.


37 posted on 01/18/2013 9:45:41 PM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: Olog-hai

I haven’t lied to anyone since I became conservative.


38 posted on 01/18/2013 10:31:58 PM PST by onedoug
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

Saint Nicholas was a real person. His story is inspirational and really should be part of what we teach our children.


39 posted on 01/18/2013 10:36:14 PM PST by Nifster
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To: jsanders2001

It seems to me that this so called expert confuses the idea of being kind and polite with lying. When someone asks me something like ‘do you like my dress’, I find a way to say something positive to the person that is true with out actually answering their question. There is no reason for me to say ‘no I think it is the ugliest thing I have ever seen’. I see nothing good in hurting others feelings.


40 posted on 01/18/2013 10:39:52 PM PST by Nifster
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To: Nifster
I see nothing good in hurting others feelings.

Well, there you go.

41 posted on 01/19/2013 1:12:08 AM PST by dr_lew
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To: kabumpo
And I pity children who were raised by literal-minded parents who don’t know the difference between the world of the imagination and lying.

Boy, howdy. Just today we took down these puppets, or marionettes, that we had hanging there for years. I operated the horse in crude fashion, and my two year old grandson was instantly terrified! It was alive! Is that a lie????????

42 posted on 01/19/2013 1:27:58 AM PST by dr_lew
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To: dr_lew

Perhaps you want to address this comment to
cantfindagoodscreenname


43 posted on 01/19/2013 2:30:33 AM PST by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: potlatch

I couldn’t even lie about that. When my daughter would ask that question I’d tell it wasn’t the dress.


44 posted on 01/19/2013 4:50:11 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: Olog-hai

“There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood” Proverbs 6:16, 17 (the full list is Proverbs 6:16-19.) We have an example of this in Acts 5:1-11; I’m sure you remember Ananias and Sapphira and what happened to them when they lied.


45 posted on 01/19/2013 5:29:24 AM PST by winkadink (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell)
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To: KittenClaws

Good point. We continuously learn...: )


46 posted on 01/19/2013 6:36:01 AM PST by jsanders2001
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To: Nifster

> It seems to me that this so called expert confuses the idea of being kind and polite with lying.

I’ve been doing what I’ve been doing for about 20 years and considered an expert but there is one truth a mentor once told me - no matter how much experience or training the “expert” has he can always be wrong. He also said never call yourself an expert; let others do it because once you say you are an expert the vultures will come to pick you apart and destroy you in a courtroom. Basically just state that youve have been doing XYZ for o many years and that others have indicated that you are an expert. has worked for me so far...


47 posted on 01/19/2013 6:44:52 AM PST by jsanders2001
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To: Olog-hai

I think Sun Tzu’s ‘Moral Law’ was also as much Taoist as Confucian. The Art of War seems very rooted in Yin/Yang duality and non absolutism.


48 posted on 01/19/2013 8:34:28 AM PST by RedStateRocker (Nuke Mecca, Deport all illegals, abolish the IRS, DEA and ATF.)
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To: jsanders2001

And in my line of work we have a definition of an ‘expert’

x is the unknown quantity and a spurt is a drip under pressure

I think all apply


49 posted on 01/19/2013 10:36:41 AM PST by Nifster
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To: R. Scott

Lol, your daughter is one thing but what if a close lady friend asked, would you say the same?
I don’t actually lie, I’d probably say ‘the dress looks nice’ and just avoid the actual question.


50 posted on 01/19/2013 11:01:47 AM PST by potlatch
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