Posted on 01/23/2013 5:22:11 PM PST by Jacquerie
My favorite radio talk show host, Mark Levin, has repeatedly warned us that among the possible new taxes, on retirement accounts and carbon, we can expect first off, a Value Added Tax. The lead-in will be ever wilder annual deficits; the spark may be a another threatened credit downgrade. A new “do something” solution will magically appear from another long weekend séance hosted by Plugs Biden, and voila, the masterminds will determine our once republic must have a VAT . . . NOW!
Its European pedigree is well known to the Obot regime and rat masterminds in Congress, and it is only a matter of time, the right time, to quickly introduce it and jam it into law.
Allow me a preemptive question that will certainly bounce around FreeRepublic. Is a VAT constitutional? Yes, I know the four stooges plus John Roberts took the fee or penalty or whatever it actually is in Obamacare, then did a little known blackrobe incantation and determined it to be of all things, a tax of an undetermined nature. For this discussion, leave that aside, and consider if an old fashioned European statist method of extracting enormous revenue from a dull witted American proletariat falls into one of the tax categories in our Constitution as written and later amended.
Those categories are direct taxes, capitation taxes, duties, imposts, excises, and income taxes. Which, if any would Constitutionally permit the VAT?
“It’s interesting how you focus on the “old people” who have dumped their tax dollars down the government toilet their whole working lives, rather than focus on the moochers, deadbeats, and parasites who comprise the Democrat party base...”
Actually I focus on people on this site because if they are not willing to pull their belts in to help the country get out of their mess, then NO ONE else will.
It’s all transfer payments now, and NO ONE wants to give them up...and I’m making the point that fighting the spending game is OVER, because our side simply demands our goodies, while expecting the other side to give up.
“Machines already do most of the work and wealth creation, and paying off debt. With robots that percentage is going way up. Your kids won’t need to lift a finger.”
That’s pretty radical. No, there’s still a LOT of real work that has to be done...and it will be my kids doing that.
“As far as your kids, that’s your problem for having them, if you’re so worried, provide for them before you croak but not on my dime!”
Oh, I see, you have a claim on the income of my kids - but I can’t have a claim on your wealth.
I think even you can now see what the entitlement mentality has done to destroy this country - from what it once was.
I don’t support a VAT, but BobL Head has a point. All the money we’ve paid into Medicare and Social Security is GONE. It is already spent. They survive by robbing current taxpayers whom they will, eventually, not be able to “re-pay.”
And Medicaid is welfare and I’d be happy to see it cease to exist.
Those “old people” are also the people who voted for those bottomless money pits or allowed them to be implemented.
Why not a VAT on food. That way only those who eat will have to pay it.
“Why not a VAT on food. That way only those who eat will have to pay it.”
Or people would eat less “boutique” foods, and rather eat still-good lower cost foods.
It’s a good idea as it would generate TREMENDOUS REVENUE, although the health food nuts (that pay double for their free range chicken) will be madder than heck at the thought.
Wow bob
you are so right and so wrong at the same time. Right in that SS is a Ponzi, wrong in that boomers are at fault or the enemy, even those that want to collect SS and medicare.
You are going after the wrong person. Most of us have railed against SS all our lives.
Heres truth. Even if you got all boomers to rip up their ss checks so our children will have some SS, the feds will still squander every penny on the worthless.
The evil people in goverment are your enemy.
More truth. it is obvious they plan on crashing the system. They are destroying savings and wealth with inflation and money printing. Heli ben said he would drop money so get your bucket out and try to provide for your family now.
I know its not righjt however its the on;ly choice you have
Tell you what son, send me a check for forty-five years of FICA payments taken without my consent with 3% interest compounded and we’ll call it even.
Bob, you have just enough information to be dangerous...what in the hell are you talking about, "our side" demanding goodies?
Most of the people on this site--the people on OUR side--have been forced to pay into the Ponzi scheme called Social Security. We're well aware that the government doesn't generate any income on its own, the government doesn't create any wealth, but we have no choice in the matter. So for us, for our side--yes, we have an expectation that some of that money we've paid in over the decades we've been at work should come back to us in our retirement years. I don't think getting back what we paid in is a "goody," and many of us know we might NOT get back everything we paid.
What you're arguing for is in effect a higher tax rate on all. You still think the Laffer Curve is about marginal rates, but it's actually about maximizing government revenue. The Laffer Curve, an inverted parabola, says that government revenue will increase proportionally with tax rates to a certain point. Then, any increase in tax rates actually causes less revenue to be gained (due to the negative impact on the economy.)
And if in fact your only focus is people on this site, get in line with the rest of the government moochers, you're no better than them. You want the productive people to pay more, but demand nothing in return.
Ask a person who thinks s.s. recipients are on welfare, what he thinks about it when he becomes eligible if s.s. is welfare and you will likely find a whole changed attitude. Anybody under 50 might deny that possibility now, let's wait and see if when they start receiving s.s. if they faithfully return those checks every month.
I’ll try one last time:
If someone breaks into my house and steals my jewelry (i.e., my wealth), it DOES NOT give me the right to break into my neighbor’s house to steal their jewelry in return...
...except, I guess, if you call the jewelry “Social Security”.
And you honestly believe the free riders will have to pay? There will always be an escape clause for the free riders, with a V.A.T. they will receive a rebate or refund every year, similar to the E.I.T.C. they get now.
The E.I.T.C. by the way was first proposed by Nixon, signed into law by Ford and increased under every administration since, without exception. The tax takers will never pay, no matter whether it's a VAT or any other tax.
You're killing me with your analogies, Bob...they don't make sense. Social Security was "sold" to the people as an "insurance" against retiring in poverty. So that people of a certain age would not be dependent upon their physical health for income in their aging years. As a conservative, I don't believe in that contract; I believe individually-funded retirement encourages more fiscal responsibility, and the benefits of a private retirement account are significantly greater than a public one.
Be that as it is, your analolgy is that the government is "stealing" our money. Let me ask you this, if someone you know steals your jewelry, and you take it back from them, is that wrong?
Hopefully they are above average. Every year the minimum IQ for the employment market goes up a point or two. Because of automation many people have no skills worth the minimum wage. Eventually people with normal IQs will be forced out also. The trend is visible. Most of us will become human pets. While this has its advantages, the downside is pets are put to sleep at the time and choice of their leaders.
Thank you for finding merit in my post. Actually, though, I was being sarcastic. My mention that only those who eat would have to pay shoulod have been a dead giveaway.
As good analogy as any so far.
“Thank you for finding merit in my post. Actually, though, I was being sarcastic. My mention that only those who eat would have to pay shoulod have been a dead giveaway.”
Thanks, I just think that people are so far removed from REAL SUFFERING in this country that they cannot imagine having to live on, say, $5.00 of food a day. They think they will starve, and they will if they want it all to be free-range chicken. But $5.00 can also buy you 4,000 calories, and allow you to double your weight in a year. I think deadbeats should have to learn how to live on a budget and buy the cheaper foods with our money.
You packed a lot in that post...and I think that I agree with it all. I’ll respond:
“Hopefully they are above average.”
Well above average, thank you. We took their primary education into our own hands and did not rely on schools or bother following ANY so-called “development schedule” that’s out there. Bottom-line is that normal (i.e., not retarded) kids can be fluent (i.e., adult-level) readers by age 5, and can easily be 5 years ahead in math. But all that only happens when parents take control, which we did.
“Every year the minimum IQ for the employment market goes up a point or two.”
That is true. The easy jobs either get outsourced to India, or outsourced to robotics. But education goes in EXACTLY the opposite direction, hence, again, the need for parents to take control.
“Because of automation many people have no skills worth the minimum wage.”
That’s very true, and that is why the unemployment rate is so high. The minimum wage imposes a defacto-minimum skill requirement. Without that, they simply don’t get hired. Cut the minimum wage in half, lots more unskilled people will find work...simply because automation is expensive also.
“Eventually people with normal IQs will be forced out also.”
True again...and our education direction will assure it. A normal person following the traditional path (i.e., public schools) likely will wind up without ANY useful skills. The only hope for these people is that they can stay off of drugs long enough to get a job driving a truck.
“The trend is visible. Most of us will become human pets. While this has its advantages, the downside is pets are put to sleep at the time and choice of their leaders.”
Yep, once China owns us, I doubt that they will match our Social Security benefits. In other words, if you don’t work, it’s a one-way trip to “Pathways” as mentioned earlier. Scary future...but no one to blame but ourselves - particularly the conservatives that just had to get their goodies.
“You’re killing me with your analogies, Bob...they don’t make sense. Social Security was “sold” to the people as an “insurance” against retiring in poverty. “
I doubt that we can ever find common ground...so while I agree with the above, by 1980 it was KNOWN TO EVERYONE that it was a fraud and it would have to be financed by future generations...people that were not even born yet.
“Be that as it is, your analolgy is that the government is “stealing” our money. Let me ask you this, if someone you know steals your jewelry, and you take it back from them, is that wrong?”
But you’re not. They are DEAD. Unless you want to take it back from retired politicians that are still alive...but fat chance at that - they’ve already spent it all.
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