Posted on 01/25/2013 8:05:16 AM PST by The_Freemason
I have a serious question for the "conservatives" on here. Why do you assume the GOP is conservative and why do you continue to support them? In he past 10 years the GOP has done nothing to prove they are a conservative alternative to the leftist democrats. They crow about fiscal restraint but GWB pushed the national debt to 10 trillion( don't throw out the Obama raised it 16, we know and it's not an answer). He started wars without congressional approval, gave us the TSA, Patriot act, warrantless wiretaps, drones flying over the country. Expanded medicare the list goes on. The current GOP is on the same bandwagon but does the same as the D's do. The GOP complains that the D's want a nanny state but they are no less intrusive. It's just that they want to control and determine your morals and values. MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS, Please.
The GOP claims to be for smaller gov't and personal freedom but I haven't seen either. If you truly believe in these ideals, IMHO the GOP is lying to you. I have been a Libertarian member for years. Only the LP actually believes in the idea of leaving you alone to live your life as YOU see fit. The LP would cut the budget into balance TODAY not 10 years from now (aka NEVER).
Maybe if more "conservatives" would stop worrying about what I ingest, who I marry and the like and examine what their party represents there could be a sea change in the country with 2 true competing visions for America. One based on free people, free minds and free markets and one based on planned markets, less freedom.
Ok, discuss amongst yourselves.
Because in the real world there is no alternative. The game is rigged, by centralized power and by big money. It's not like the early 1800's, when a new party could emerge.
The Dem's would LOVE IT if we tried to form a true Conservative Party. It would be like the Conservative Party in New York, but on a national scale. The non-Dem vote would be split, and the Dem's would sweep every election.
As sad as it sounds, our best hope is to try to nudge the GOPe in the right direction while hoping another Reagan emerges.
+1
If the Libertarian Party could develop some leadership with Gravitas,
I'd consider it,
but the party itself has more flakes than Kellogg
Wow, the day for absurd analogy continues.
Not Coke or Pepsi.....more like putrid water or cyanide. One will kill instantly, one will eventually kill, therefore potentially buying you time.
One is guaranteed death, one is the risk of death. But no, not coke and pepsi. Cute, but not applicable.
Excellent observation. I should have included something like that in my post (#21).
If you're a libertarian, why are you appealing to conservatives?
When I was in Young Americans for Freedom, I had many encounters with libertarians. They always emphasized that "we are NOT conservatives, we are libertarians." The biggest issue that motivated them was the legalization of narcotics, which is not very high on the conservative agenda. Nor is legalizing prostitution, removing all restrictions on gambling, or keeping abortion legal.
Your #21 was excellent, and the mention of Reagan is crucial. He fought these battles 50 years ago, and had a lot of heated arguments with Jesse Helms over it in fact. Reagan prevailed, and Jesse worked with Reagan to redefine the party and even Obama knows to this very day that Reagan is the man who not only influenced the party, he changed the trajectory of the entire country.
Reagan would be the first to tell you it would not have happened with another party. What people don’t want to admit is this: the problem is human nature, and that same human nature will reside in whatever third, or fifty third party, is conjured up.
Humans like power and they protect their turf. Thus, any political party will by definition DO THE SAME - unless somehow we can find some perfect people to run them. I haven’t seen too many of those around here, or anywhere.
ITS THE HUMAN NATURE, STUPID.....
I can appreciate your opinion of the GOP (I’ll add, however the “-e”) re: what they’ve done and are doing.
I’ve mentioned here multiple times about what a fool W was with the TSA and many of his ‘compassionate conservative’ intiatives (NCLB, medicare prescriptions, et al). He protected us from without, but forgot about the enemy from within (Democrats).
We conservatives, at least here in Georgia, have successfully now convinced Saxby Chamblis that he can’t win a run for the Senate in 2014. A major coup!
I am NOT, however, about to go full-blown nutball Libertarian, period. Many personal choices many people make I could care squat about. When it comes to, say, through tax dollars, pay for abortions, I’m against it.
Drugs....meth, cocaine, and the rest can do no good for society; they’re just misery in pill form. But, Big L libertarianism says that I shouldn’t care about it if it doesn’t harm me tangibly. The problem the tangibles is that they are a miasmic ether that disperses throughout society with dire consequences.
It is not traditional conservatism here that is the problem.
My main problem with the LP is that they believe if America just minds its own business, that no foreign power will come and mind it for us. In a perfect world, libertarian would be the way to go. In an imperfect world, we must realize that America could not afford to go libertarian, until every other government went libertarian, at least with respects to foreign affairs.
I see big unconstitutional government as a beast to be feared. It seems to me that the Bush GOP grew government, both in size and power, just as much as the Obama Rats. Coke and Pepsi works for me.
Yes, but thats NOT the model implied by the OP
You have a really perverted interpretation of “just as much” not to mention an incredible blind spot to how many Republicans were againt Bush every step of the way. Sorry, analogy still a fail,
....and let me add that your understanding that the Bush GOP ever had philosophical control of the government leads me to believe that perhaps you and I come at this with varied levels of understanding of what “control” of the government means.
30 years. PM as well. I do not ascribe to what I will call the Alex Jones Libertarians. My belief in the teachings and morals of the GATOU are part of my life, but they are mine and I will not attempt to force them upon others. I however believe in freedom of thought, word and personal deed. As did my brothers before me who founded this country.
Unlike you I am a result orientated voter. I look at the results, not the motivations. My father long ago taught me that the "road to hell is paved with good intentions". Bush ruined the GOP for conservatives. There is no redemption from the hell brought upon us by Bush via the GOP. Obama is the Bush legacy.
So you're for homosexual marriage and legalizing drugs?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.