Cops vs. Joe Six Pack...who's more qualified

25Jan13 | qaz123

[qaz123]

Just putting something out there to the the folks of FR, who tend to be a bit smarter than your average Joe. And to all the folks that have a tendency to start the whole, "all you cop bashers suck", try to be fair. I've in law enforcement for over 15 years. I believe strongly in the 2nd Amendment. I also do not think I am any smarter, responsible or skilled than any other gun owner who has taken the time to train and know their weapon. Anywho.....

Here's my question:

Why is it, that active and retired law enforcement officers/agents/corrections, are the only ones given special treatment and exempted with regards to gun legislation?

Are we all to assume that ONLY those with those types of credentials are SMART ENOUGH and RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH to be allowed to carry a weapon to protect themselves and others.

I read an article the other day and some type of retired Captain of NYPD was quoted on the new NYS laws. He described a "clip". There is no such thing as a "clip" with regards to semi automatic weapons. The device is called a "magazine".

I, or anyone, can go to any weekend ISPSC, USPSA, or IDPA match and observe Joe Six Pack, outshoot any cop in the country. I know that because I am one of the few, if not the only member of law enforcement that regularly attends such matches. On occasion, cops show up one time, but after getting embarrassed by some plumber, orthodontist or computer programmer, the cops never show up again. And in many cases, Joe Six Pack probably knows the law better.

And lets not forget the two sharpshooters outside the Empire State Bldg. not so long ago that shot 9 people, in the lower legs and feet, from about 10 feet away. Those are Bloombergs "professionals" that should be the only ones allowed to carry.

Just wondering what others on here think.

[oldbrowser]

But are they more qualified than say a grunt from the 82nd Airborne, that did 4 or 5 rotations.

They are likely the same people. LEOs are almost exclusively former military. Those with advanced military experience are probably better qualified LEOs.

Comparing a SpecOps to basic grunt with swat team experience would be an interesting comparison. I think I would probably prefer to have the SpecOps on my side.

[Boogieman]

Hear, hear!

[qaz123]

Not likely the same people, at least that’s been my experience. Maybe in some of the smaller, rural departments where most of your typical infantry guys come from.

But in the city, the non-military LEO’s far outnumber the vets. Maybe, with all the guys returning it might swing a bit, but my buddies that used to do the background investigations had a hard time getting folks interested when they did the job fairs at military bases.

But a squad of guys from the 82nd or 2MarDiv aren’t any less qualified than any other 21 year old that goes thru the police academy.

[qaz123]

YOU WILL DO THEIR BIDDING FOR YOUR OWN SELF INTEREST AND SURVIVAL WITHOUT QUESTION

Don’t forget Katrina and the gun grab they had down there. I watch those videos and they make me sick to see and hear what went on down there.

[qaz123]

and by the way, I won’t be doing anyones bidding.

I believe in this country and what it stands for, at least what it used to stand for.

I will keep my oath.

[Joe 6-pack]

I am former military. I am former law enforcement. I am former military law enforcement. I am Joe 6-pack.

Guess I got all my bases covered :-)

[Ratman83]

I read an article the other day and some type of retired Captain of NYPD was quoted on the new NYS laws. He described a "clip". There is no such thing as a "clip" with regards to semi automatic weapons. The device is called a "magazine".

Actually a semi auto can have a clip, the M1 Garand does.

[Little Ray]

Cops have proved themselves to the “Establishment” by enforcing their will, raising revenue, etc. So naturally they get a few perks.
Also, since the officers HAVE proved their political reliability, the Establishment WANTS them armed while off duty - just in case.

[qaz123]

I’m on planet earth. And until recently, I admit, that I was unaware of some of the SCOTUS decisions about the actual responsibilities of LEO’s and how they’re aren’t actually required to protect anyone but themselves.

I’m with you on pretty much every point you’ve made so far.

I hate the fact that they, I for that matter, will get special consideration when I know that its not deserved. I and no other member of law enforcement are any more deserving of the right to keep and bare arms than anyone else.

[qaz123]

So, you chose a job that would put you up close and personal. Your choice.

Does your chosen profession make you any more responsible in owning and handling a firearm than anyone else? No it does not.

Unless you were a county sheriff that did detention work, the only time you had a gun was off-duty, maybe doing a transport or when you were in a tower.

So, again why is your safety any more important than any other citizen when confronted with those same individuals?

[Little Ray]

The old Mauser C96 “Broomhandle” loads from a 10 round stripper clip.

[Still Thinking]

No, I’m talking reality, what’s right, not what our employees wish it were. The decisions you cite, for example, were rendered by a key branch of the employee group. What do you expect?

[Still Thinking]

Alright, let me see if I can simplify it.

Joe’s existence and the existence of those like him with jobs that create wealth justify the cop’s existence (not as a human being, but the existence of his job as a cop).

Imagine for a moment a society with all private sector and no public. Might not be a very nice place to live, but it could exist and be self-sustaining.

Now imagine the reverse, a society that’s all public sector and no private. It won’t work. The government can print money to give the cops and teachers, but all money does is denominate value and make a convenient way to transfer it. The money is worthless in itself; it’s only value is it’s ability to purchase food, cars, houses, fuel to operate the cars and houses, etc.

The public sector is impossible, and pointless anyway, without the private. The private sector could survive without the public, though that survival might have some undesirable characteristics to it.

So the public sector is a tax if you will, on the wealth created solely in the private sector, in exchange for which they (are supposed to) maintain a more desirable society for members of the private sector to live in.

They’re essentially security and law and order contractors, like a plumber. That plumbers exist is a convenience, but if you had to figure out how to change your own toilet, you could do it.

[zeugma]

Why is it, that active and retired law enforcement officers/agents/corrections, are the only ones given special treatment and exempted with regards to gun legislation?

I think the entire concept is insulting in the extreme to the vast majority of citizens of this nation. When cops retire, they should be treated no differently than anyone else. Of course, you'll always find some who will support the idea that 'some animals are more equal than others'.

[al baby]

lol

[bdfromlv]

In all of my positions held I had to (re-qualify not familiarize) with weapons yearly and was allowed to use our range as needed(yes all prisons have weapons ranges) and for riot control practice (yes we did practice) I have qualified with M-16, 45, 38, 9mm, shotgun, grenade launcher, got to fire the M14, thompson, american 180, M60 and 50M. Yes my profession made me more proficient, My service and professionalism made me more responsible than most civilians. Your assumptions about the general character of correctional professionals is wrong, but as with any group there are bad apples. Sam Colts, An armed society is a polite society is the way I feel. My career choice made me a target for people you will probably never meet, but each of them has friends and family that may wish to come after me and mine for reasons they feel are justified.

[eyeamok]

You sound sincere, and I hope and pray you are one of the good guys, but remember this, the very people in uniform that you and your friends protect from scrutiny for their Criminal Wrongdoing will be the ones to eliminate those of you that do not tow the party line when it all falls apart. Which is why I say YOU will do their bidding or be exterminated. History shows us that this has happened time and time again. For now I will take you at your word, mainly because of your response, you didn’t respond like the majority of bootlickers do. and for that I applaud you. Keep up the good fight.

[eyeamok]

I expect those that are honest to stand up against the wrongdoing, regardless of WHO IT IS, we used to call this Integrity, Character, DOING THE RIGHT THING. But that is not the way it happens, any Honest cop is immediately silenced by the vast majority of the corrupt ones, take Florida for example, recently a State trooper did a Felony stop on an OFF DUTY City cop for reckless driving at speeds exceeding 100mph,in a squad car, SHE DID THE RIGHT THING and look what happened, the off duty cop in a squad car deserved to be PUT IN JAIL and FIRED, but that’s not what happened in the end is it??

[qaz123]

My career choice had me deal with those people on the street. More times than not, alone as where I worked we didn’t have 2-man cars. I dealt with them before you did, in a very uncontrolled environment.

[bdfromlv]

Having worked with both caged and loose individuals with the criminal propensity and life style, think about your interaction with many non criminals and a mix of light weight wannabees, mothers, children, routine interactions that cause paper work, most you can direct to other handlers and workers, then the stupid lawbreakers mixed with some with actual criminal intent/in progress situations. Most days covering large areas and taking reports. Yes you can be in areas that cause you anxiety and distress you are mostly on your own and if necessary can protect yourself with vest and various weapons. Now think of the federal pen where terrorists, crips, bloods, Aryan brotherhood, nuestra familia, Mafia, serial killers, pedos, murderers, car jackers, drug dealers,etc. are your workers and maintenance men. They are let out of their cells at 6am and dont have to get back to lock in till 10 pm. they carry tools past you to do their jobs and you are the one of three correctional officers in a cell house of up to 500 inmates and you dont have a vest gun or knife only a uniform, and a pen. You try to watch what goes on and at any time one group can be at war with another or some one feels disrespected by another. I know who the bad guys were every one. uncontrolled environment yeah. try standing a messhall with 500 inmates with knives and forks. Now the courts say you cant even swear at the boys if they throw shit on you or spit in your face, everyone of them know how to sue your ass for anything. Yes we each chose our job but unless you have walked in the others shoes Dangerous environment is in the mind of the individual. You fear what you want to, I just want to be prepared for anything. I didnt ask nor want special treatment. but I wont turn it down if its given.