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Neanderthals Died Out Earlier Than Thought
Discovery ^ | FEB 5, 2013 | CHARLENS Q. CHOI

Posted on 02/05/2013 1:16:36 PM PST by Pharmboy

The last Neanderthals had passed by southern Iberia quite earlier than previously thought.

Neanderthals may have died out earlier than before thought, researchers say.


These findings hint that Neanderthals did not coexist with modern humans as long as previously suggested, investigators added.

Modern humans once shared the planet with now-departed human lineages, including the Neanderthals, our closest known extinct relatives. However, there has been heated debate over just how much time and interaction, or interbreeding, Neanderthals had with modern humans.

To help solve the mystery, an international team of researchers investigated 215 bones previously excavated from 11 sites in southern Iberia, in an area known as Spain today. Neanderthals entered Europe before modern humans did, and prior research had suggested the last of the Neanderthals held out in southern Iberia until about 35,000 years ago, potentially sharing the region with modern humans for thousands of years.

Their data suggest that modern humans and Neanderthals may have actually lived in the area at completely different times, never crossing paths there at all. Even so, these findings do not call into question whether modern humans and Neanderthals once had sex — the findings simply indicate this interbreeding must have occurred earlier, before modern humans entered Europe.

"The genetic evidence for interbreeding — 1 to 4 percent Neanderthal DNA in present-day modern humans — suggests that interbreeding probably occurred before the period we are looking at in the Levant, the region around Israel and Syria, when modern humans first migrated out of Africa," researcher Rachel Wood, an archaeologist and radiocarbon specialist at Australian National University in Canberra, told LiveScience.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.discovery.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Society
KEYWORDS: evolution; godsgravesglyphs; humans; neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals
Yeah...I imagine we wiped them out as soon our ancestors got to Europe.
1 posted on 02/05/2013 1:16:48 PM PST by Pharmboy
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To: SunkenCiv; blam; thefactor; neverdem

“Oh, the (near) humanity,” ping...


2 posted on 02/05/2013 1:18:30 PM PST by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Pharmboy

Earlier than who thought? Not me; I never thought about them at all.


3 posted on 02/05/2013 1:18:37 PM PST by csmusaret (I will give Obama credit for one thing- he is living proof that familiarity breeds contempt.)
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To: Pharmboy

A couple of them are still alive....and the live in house in Washington D.C....


4 posted on 02/05/2013 1:19:11 PM PST by Dallas59 (America died a little bit more on 11/6/2012)
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To: Pharmboy

I once had a business partner who was a Neanderthal.


5 posted on 02/05/2013 1:20:02 PM PST by donhunt (Certified and proud "Son of a Bitch".)
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To: Pharmboy

Not true. They remain among us today, and one of them writes a column concerning economics for the NY Times.


6 posted on 02/05/2013 1:20:33 PM PST by LucianOfSamasota (Tanstaafl - its not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: Dallas59
Our kind of Neanderthals never made it back down to Africa to spread their improved immune system ~ and some other stuff we don't know about yet.

Another, more primitive predecessor seems to have visited the villages though.

Today humanity appears to be divided into modern humans with Neanderthal ancestry and those without. Those with OWN EVERYTHING and think up all the new stuff.

7 posted on 02/05/2013 1:26:03 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Pharmboy

I wouldn’t be surprised if this was politically inspired faux science.

The left does not like the proven facts that Neanderthal and Cromagnun interbred to make the true European human. They want the African thing to be in the forefront.


8 posted on 02/05/2013 1:26:57 PM PST by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Dallas59

Beat me by a minute


9 posted on 02/05/2013 1:27:13 PM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: Pharmboy

I notice that this story is written with a theme that is the same as all similar stories- that the news today is being discussed in terms that now we understand and we are so certain that now we are correct and how could we possibly have believed what we said was the truth in the distant past, like last week. We are so much more advanced today and know so much more, don’t we?

Did I ask how we could have possibly believed all the stuff we said previously was the truth? Well it was, but everyone who knows better knows that we are telling the truth this time.


10 posted on 02/05/2013 1:29:04 PM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: Pharmboy

The CroMagnon men killed all the Neanderthal men and raped all the Neanderthal women. That is when paper bags were invented by the CroMagnons.


11 posted on 02/05/2013 1:31:00 PM PST by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Marchione.)
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To: bunkerhill7

Just wait till they demand reparations...


12 posted on 02/05/2013 1:34:07 PM PST by GraceG
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To: bunkerhill7

Now THAT’S funny...


13 posted on 02/05/2013 1:38:10 PM PST by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: muawiyah

Today humanity appears to be divided into modern humans with Neanderthal ancestry and those without. Those with OWN EVERYTHING and think up all the new

My guess is you are not far of, seems to me that creation was an ongoing project,new and improved models made and older ones discarded, some of wich survived as rebuild with some newer parts, mix and mach as it were LOL


14 posted on 02/05/2013 1:39:43 PM PST by munin
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To: theBuckwheat
You're right. And that's why science must always build on itself and improve. Dogma cannot be part of science (good science, anyway). It's new data that count.
15 posted on 02/05/2013 1:40:50 PM PST by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Pharmboy
The theory of interbreeding may be anachronistic thinking on the part of today's anthropologists and archaeologists. Just because at the present WEstern society obsessed with things sexual does not mean the Cromagnon and Neandethal were likewise obsessed. They may have thought each other as repulsive or as a danger to be immediately killed. A living growing people are by their very nature exclusive. It is only a dying people that are inclusive.
16 posted on 02/05/2013 1:44:56 PM PST by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: muawiyah

Proud owner of Neanderthal DNA (2.7% of my total, and I’ve also got the brow ridges to prove it phgenotypically).


17 posted on 02/05/2013 1:47:12 PM PST by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Pharmboy; bunkerhill7

...followed closely by the 2-bag practice, i.e., one over your head in case hers falls off.....

Thank you very much, I’ll be here all week, remember to tip your waitress....


18 posted on 02/05/2013 1:47:44 PM PST by Nabber
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To: munin

Most likely ~ no idea what it looks like to the other side, but on this side it looks like replacement models and cannibalism for parts.


19 posted on 02/05/2013 1:57:59 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Pharmboy

“phgenotypically” ... I think you have a spelling error there you Neanderthal :-P ...

I need to get one of those tests ... I’m damn curious to see what I’m made of ... I’m hoping most of it is “unknown” or “related to Laz” :-).


20 posted on 02/05/2013 2:00:17 PM PST by edh (I need a better tagline)
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS

Considering what some modern women look like, I bet Neanderthal women still got nailed by Cro-Magnon men on occasion.


21 posted on 02/05/2013 2:01:38 PM PST by meatloaf (Support Senate S 1863 & House Bill 1380 to eliminate oil slavery.)
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To: bunkerhill7; Nabber

Realistically, if young Neanderthal women looked like her, then they were no worse looking than what many guys bring home from the bar at closing time.

22 posted on 02/05/2013 2:03:26 PM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: edh
Yeah...ya got me...[where's auto correct FreeRepublic2.0 when you need it?].

And, I was very pleased with 23andme.com since they give you ancestry as well as disease risks, carrier states, traits, etc. Look for discounts on the Interweb before you sign up. Disclaimer: I have no financial interest in that company.

23 posted on 02/05/2013 2:06:13 PM PST by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: theBuckwheat
Further note that you're reading what the reporter thinks the researcher said. Reporters are seriously poor at getting the facts right and listening carefully. Current writing skills are pretty poor as well.
24 posted on 02/05/2013 2:06:13 PM PST by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: PapaBear3625

The young Eleanor Clift.


25 posted on 02/05/2013 2:08:36 PM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
They may have thought each other as repulsive or as a danger to be immediately killed

Men have been known to copulate with chickens, geese, goats, cattle, horses, walruses, and each other. Not to mention ugly women.

Of course they raped the Neanderthal ladies if they caught them. How could it be otherwise?

26 posted on 02/05/2013 2:09:41 PM PST by chesley (Vast deserts of political ignorance makes liberalism possible - James Lewis)
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To: bunkerhill7

And here I though they died out because the Neanderthal used single use plastic bags at the grocery store, and drove SUVs.


27 posted on 02/05/2013 2:10:32 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: chesley

That is one disturbing post. That’s just baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.


28 posted on 02/05/2013 2:13:57 PM PST by Darren McCarty (If most people were more than keyboard warriors, we might have won the election)
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To: Darren McCarty

We didn’t get to where we are by being nice guys...oh yeah, we bad (not me, but as a species). ;-)


29 posted on 02/05/2013 2:19:07 PM PST by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Pharmboy

Nonsense - see them on GEICO commercials all the time.....


30 posted on 02/05/2013 2:22:28 PM PST by njslim (St)
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To: PapaBear3625

Problem was there was no beer to give them an excuse .....


31 posted on 02/05/2013 2:25:04 PM PST by njslim (St)
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To: Pharmboy
"Proud owner of Neanderthal DNA (2.7% of my total, and I’ve also got the brow ridges to prove it phgenotypically)."

I was surprised to read that Asians have a higher percent of Neanderthal DNA than do Europeans.

32 posted on 02/05/2013 2:28:09 PM PST by blam
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To: Pharmboy
That post reminds me of this joke.

A big Scot is sitting in a bar, ranting as he downs his pints. He pounds his hand on the bar, says "You see this bar? I built this bar with me own two hands, a finer piece of work you'll newver find, but do they call me MacGregor the bar-builder? No!!" and he downs his pint and buys another.

He points out the window. "See that dock in the lake? I built that dock with me own hands, a finer piece of work you'll newver find, but do they call me MacGregor the dock-builder? No!!" and downs his pint.

He next pointed out the chair and table in the corner, the fence outside, all sorts of similar projects, and says "I built that with me own two hands, a finer piece of work you'll newver find, but do call me MacGregor the handyman? No!!"

He stares into his beer, whispers, "But you F*** one sheep."

33 posted on 02/05/2013 2:29:45 PM PST by Darren McCarty (If most people were more than keyboard warriors, we might have won the election)
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To: PapaBear3625
The Neanderthal Theory


34 posted on 02/05/2013 2:31:41 PM PST by blam
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To: Pharmboy
Scientists discover the ages of artifacts and fossils using a variety of techniques. For instance, radiocarbon dating determines the age of biological remains based on the ratio between the carbon isotopes (atoms of the same element with different numbers of neutrons) carbon-12 and carbon-14 it holds — this proportion changes as radioactive carbon-14 breaks down while stable carbon-12 does not.

Ok, so they used carbon dating on the bones to determine their age (as well as other techniques).

...and prior research had suggested the last of the Neanderthals held out in southern Iberia until about 35,000 years ago...

OK, So the results of this carbon dating of bones was over 35,000 years. But is carbon dating accurate that far back? I mean 35,000 years is about 7 half-lifes for the c14 isotope? Can we trust that what little is left is not just contamination?

35 posted on 02/05/2013 2:41:41 PM PST by AndyTheBear
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To: blam

Indeed. Essentially the only ones with 3.5 - 4% Neanderthal genes are Asians. Euros average 2.5% or so, and max out at 3.2% or thereabouts.


36 posted on 02/05/2013 2:47:03 PM PST by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: chesley

The examples you give are disorders of late and decadent civilizations, not primitive men.


37 posted on 02/05/2013 4:00:53 PM PST by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: blam

Love that pic.

Always reminds me of Mrs. Lurkin’s side of the family.


38 posted on 02/05/2013 5:10:47 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: Pharmboy

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Pharmboy.
The Neandertal Enigma
by James Shreeve

in local libraries
"Frayer's own reading of the record reveals a number of overlooked traits that clearly and specifically link the Neandertals to the Cro-Magnons. One such trait is the shape of the opening of the nerve canal in the lower jaw, a spot where dentists often give a pain-blocking injection. In many Neandertal, the upper portion of the opening is covered by a broad bony ridge, a curious feature also carried by a significant number of Cro-Magnons. But none of the alleged 'ancestors of us all' fossils from Africa have it, and it is extremely rare in modern people outside Europe." [pp 126-127]
Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


39 posted on 02/05/2013 6:10:05 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: Pharmboy

Not true - there are several living in the White House at this very moment.


40 posted on 02/06/2013 1:43:37 AM PST by Jack Hammer
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To: Pharmboy

If the Neanderthal remains are over 40K years old, you’re really pushing the limits of what C14 dating can do accurately (half-life is something like 8K, right)?

Of course, that won’t stop the flat-Earthers from saying that mistakes in earlier estimates invalidate the whole concept of radiometric dating!


41 posted on 02/06/2013 8:21:54 PM PST by ek_hornbeck
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