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1 posted on 02/06/2013 8:52:28 PM PST by AlmaKing
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To: AlmaKing

I have a propane tank.
They top off
There is evaporation
None of what you state seems out of the ordinary


2 posted on 02/06/2013 8:55:20 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: AlmaKing
How much you can get in the tank depends on the temperature, if it's cold you can get a bit more in.

I think you are correct about the 80% max fill, because if filled in cold late winter and not used ...high summer temps could cause excessive pressure.

Your local state regulator should have the details....also should have this info on the original contract with your gas supplier..

4 posted on 02/06/2013 8:58:22 PM PST by spokeshave (The only people better off today than 4 years ago are the Prisoners at Guantanamo.)
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To: AlmaKing

Unless your furnace is incredibly old and/or bad I can’t believe electric is cheaper than propane. I switched to it from oil and I’m saving hundreds of dollars a year.


5 posted on 02/06/2013 8:59:31 PM PST by TheRhinelander
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To: AlmaKing

Unless your furnace is incredibly old and/or bad I can’t believe electric is cheaper than propane. I switched to it from oil and I’m saving hundreds of dollars a year.


6 posted on 02/06/2013 9:00:57 PM PST by TheRhinelander
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To: AlmaKing

100% full...!

Preper?


7 posted on 02/06/2013 9:02:55 PM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: AlmaKing

80% is the highest they ever take mine. I switched to wood heat so only use the propane now for cooking and water heater. I also switched to on call so they only come out if I call them, with my guarantee that I wouldn’t let it go below 20%.


8 posted on 02/06/2013 9:06:36 PM PST by Duchess47 ("One day I will leave this world and dream myself to Reality" Crazy Horse)
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To: AlmaKing

Is there other propane companies in your area? Talk to your neighbors and friends see if who has the good reputation in your area.

If your company isn’t one of the recommended ones then it is time to switch. Have them empty the tank and give you a refund for that gas. If the tank is theirs have them remove it. Arrange for the new company to bring in a tank and fill it to your specifications. Stipulate in your contract that they are only to fill it per your request not when they feel like it.

Good luck. If they give you grief go up the change of command by talking to a supervisor, then a manager/owner.

We had one of of our local propane companies decide that they were going to dump the high priced product into all of their customer’s tanks before a price drop. They lost a lot of customers as a result of that action. Numerous people were threatening to sue them for their actions.


10 posted on 02/06/2013 9:09:12 PM PST by notpoliticallycorewrecked (Our military does not kill babies, those that commit abortion kill babies.)
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To: AlmaKing

Want to get away from them? Don’t pay them. Also,If you own the tank, Buy a new lock for the top filler. Call them and tell them not to deliver anymore. then buy a shot gun.

Problem solved.


20 posted on 02/06/2013 9:19:48 PM PST by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: AlmaKing
I have not been using my furnace for heating this winter, not once. I've relied on 2 space heaters

We've done the same -- using three oil-filled DeLonghi space heaters at 300w or 900w each and have only turned on the furnace/heat pump for a few minutes on a couple of really cold mornings.

We also have a propane tank and it is filled to the 80% mark on the gauge and no more.

22 posted on 02/06/2013 9:21:17 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: AlmaKing

Did you ever think about moving to Texas?


41 posted on 02/06/2013 10:17:08 PM PST by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
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To: AlmaKing

1. Your propane tank is much too small. Propane prices vary throughout the year. August-Sept is usually the least expensive. Try to get a 500 or even better a 1000 gallon tank and have it filled completely at the end of summer.

2. Stop your auto fill program. This does nothing but insure that you will buy propane during the winter, when prices are highest. Top off at the end of summer and monitor level every two weeks. Write it down. If you go below 20% full order 100 gallons. This way you end the winter with tank almost depleted and buy the least propane possible during the high price winter months.

3. Your immediate problem is that the tank is overfilled at 100% and is a safety hazard. They should come back out and lower tank level to 80%. They should meter the gas coming out and give you a refund.

4. When your contract ends call every propane company in the area. Get tank rental prices and propane prices. The first propane price they will quote you is for yoiur initial fill. This will be a very good price. Ask for the second fill price, and the third. They jack up the price pretty high after the first “loss leader” price on the first fill.


56 posted on 02/07/2013 1:37:09 AM PST by CurlyDave
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To: AlmaKing

Unless you need the propane for something other than heating have them pull the tank. Just get rid of it if you aren’t using it.

It’s what we did. We too went to space heating only those areas of the house we actually use in the mornings, and evenings we use the fireplace when it’s cold, and damp.

We have a central heating system house. The electricity for the blower, and the propane for the heat became a budget issue. It’s just one “H” of a alot cheaper to use the space heaters in the bath, the bedroom, and the kitchen for an hour or so in the morning while getting ready for work, than to crank on the electricity, and the propane to heat the whole house with the central unit.

Much better off without the central unit.


57 posted on 02/07/2013 4:13:25 AM PST by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists, call 'em what you will, they ALL have fairies livin' in their trees.)
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To: AlmaKing

Alma,

People in the air conditioning business are trained to never fill their refrigerant tanks beyond roughly 80% as it creates the possibility of violent explosion. I’ve done enough research on propane (which happens to be an excellent refrigerant, but rarely used, by the way), to know the same applies there.

Here’s the problem: Liquid propane expands as it is heated up in a tank. As long as there is empty room in the tank, the liquid propane will slowly fill that empty volume - the empty volume is really just gas propane (we call it two-phase propane). As the propane climbs in temperature, its pressure slowly builds up providing there is room in the tank for expansion (we call this pressure the vapor pressure). The tanks are made to take this pressure build-up with temperature, probably to as high as 150F, providing there is room for liquid expansion in the tank (i.e., it never becomes “full” of liquid only). A tank that is 80% full at 32F will probably not fill up until at least 120F, which is why they only fill to 80%

The problem occurs when there is no more room for expansion of the liquid. In that case, the liquid will still try to expand, but instead will press on the walls of the tank, trying to make the tank bigger. This pressure increase per unit temperature increase in this situation is huge, and no tank can withstand it very long. Once the tank is full, you can get away with this type of expansion for maybe a 10 degree increase in temperature (20 degree at best). At that point something bad will happen. If things work properly, the tank will vent when a certain pressure level is met. If things do not work properly the tank will rupture. Neither outcome is good. Even if the tank just vents, there’s a risk that the vent will not seat properly, and there will then be a leak.

People in that business are (usually) highly trained and should never, ever, fully fill up a tank. The company providing the service should have their license pulled if they’re doing that. As to your case, it’s possible that the company is really filling to 80% and has some other way to verify (i.e., they are not using your gauge), but I don’t know enough to tell you if it’s possible.

So, if the tank still looks full, maybe call out a different company and ask them if they agree it’s full. If it is full, I would call someone from the state that regulates them (in Texas it’s the Railroad Commission, don’t know in your state) and show them the problem, as you’re likely not the only customer they’re doing this to.

In any case, you should try to get that tank down to 80%, in a safe manner before the outside weather warms up too much - maybe run the house heater higher.

Good luck.


60 posted on 02/07/2013 4:38:19 AM PST by BobL
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To: AlmaKing

Filling a propane tank to 100 percent is dangerous and againt all gas codes. If liquid propane gets in the first stage regulator it will freeze it up. Possibly makeing for excessive pressure in the line to the house. You should call the propane company and instruct them to come pump the tank back down to 80 percent like they were supposed to fill to. I ran a propane office for several years this is a very dangerous situation and MUST be fixed!


63 posted on 02/07/2013 5:22:33 AM PST by southernerwithanattitude (New and Improved Redneck!)
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To: AlmaKing

FYI

I have been in the business and just some comments

Take the advice and get off automatic delivery. Just watch you don’t run out

Electric heaters are inefficient; ever see an energy star rating on one? The losses are all at the generation station. An oil heater is at best is 95% but most are 80%. Gas fired are the most efficient with rating up to 97%. Like MPG, higher number is cheaper to run. Run your make and model number on the internet and look for its AFUE.

The reason you vents are below windows is to “wash” the window with heat. Besides the heat losses from windows the point is to stop condensation from forming on the windows. Next time you visit a house with radiators look where they are. Below windows.

You could mark the position of the vents with a sharpie and then close down the ones in the rooms you don’t use. This way if you want to heat the whole house you can return them to the original setting and will not mess with the balancing of the system.

Take the advice and check your filter. It will be on the side of the furnace. That is how air gets in and is heated and blown to the rest of the house.

I think your biggest problem is the location of the furnace, You said it is in the cold basement about 45 deg. Moving it is out of the question, running duct work for the return is probably impracticable. Insulate your basement and the duct work to the house. Think about it, every time your burner comes on it has to heat 45 deg air to 70 deg to warm your house. That takes lots of energy rather than 68 to 70. I’ll bet you would still save gas if you moved one of your electric heaters to an insulated basement.

I would not spend the money on blown in insulation on the walls. It has a tendency to settle to the bottom after a few years. I would go to Home Depot and buy rolls of insulation for the attic if it has none or very little. It is easy to just roll it out.

All that being said it probably does pay to only heat 500 feet of a 1900 square foot house by electric.


66 posted on 02/07/2013 5:59:24 AM PST by shoff (Vote Democratic it beats thinking!)
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To: AlmaKing
First of all, the gauges on propane tanks are notoriously unreliable. Don't assume that it's at 100% just because it says so.

When the tank is filled, the person filling it is supposed to open the bleeder valve and add propane until there is propane liquid coming out of the valve. This occurs at the 80% mark at which point the tank is considered "full"

If you went out to your tank and opened the bleeder slightly (use heavy gloves as the cold propane liquid can cause severe burns) you can check this. If only vapor comes out you are below the 80% threshold. If liquid comes out (it will be a visible coud rather that invisible), you are at or above the 80% mark. If you were to run your propane furnace for a couple of days and the bleeder valve was STILL venting liquid, you can be pretty sure that the tank was overfilled.

Remember that propane is extremely flammable. No ignition source should be anywhere near it when you open the bleeder valve. If you are not comfortable with opening it yourself, you could just be there when the propane company comes back to investigate the overfill.

78 posted on 02/07/2013 10:42:07 AM PST by BlueMondaySkipper (Involuntarily subsidizing the parasite class since 1981)
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