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$9 minimum wage: Poverty reducer or job killer?
The Week ^ | February 13, 2013 | Harold Maass

Posted on 02/16/2013 9:23:42 PM PST by ExxonPatrolUs

Edited on 02/16/2013 10:56:50 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

In perhaps the "most controversial proposal" in Tuesday night's State of the Union address, President Obama called for raising the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $9 an hour. "Even with the tax relief we've put in place, a family with two kids that earns the minimum wage still lives below the poverty line. Thatís wrong," Obama said. "Let's declare that in the wealthiest nation on earth, no one who works full time should have to live in poverty." The White House says that raising the minimum wage would improve the lives of millions of people, from cooks to store clerks to health-care aides ó while placing only limited burdens on employers.


(Excerpt) Read more at theweek.com ...


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1 posted on 02/16/2013 9:23:47 PM PST by ExxonPatrolUs
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To: ExxonPatrolUs

Why not make it $100 an hour ?


2 posted on 02/16/2013 9:27:06 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: ExxonPatrolUs

It will kill jobs and put the squeeze on anyone whose wages are not tied to the minimum wage by driving up costs.


3 posted on 02/16/2013 9:29:55 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

I only proposed 50 bucks an hour on an earlier thread but 100 bucks an hour makes much more sense.


4 posted on 02/16/2013 9:30:25 PM PST by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?)
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To: ExxonPatrolUs

I was working in a grocery store when the minimum wage went from 50 Cents to 75 cents.

That next week we raised the price on everything in the store and so did every other store in town.


5 posted on 02/16/2013 9:31:10 PM PST by jongaltsr
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To: fieldmarshaldj

Exactly. Studies have shown conclusively that raising the minimum wage, which is designed to help young, inexperienced, often minority workers, has exactly the opposite of its desired effects. Look at the demographics and unemployment rates and you’ll see it keeps young, inexperienced workers from finding a job where they can gain experience, get their foot in the door, and start working their way up.

Isn’t it odd that minimum wage laws have been exempted from American Samoa, where Pelosi’s husband just happens to have a canning plant.


6 posted on 02/16/2013 9:34:09 PM PST by econjack (Some people are as dumb as soup.)
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To: econjack

They don’t do it for economics, low information voters like it.


7 posted on 02/16/2013 9:37:37 PM PST by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?)
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To: fieldmarshaldj; eyedigress
I think y'all's premise is wrong. There shouldn't be any "minimum wage" at all.

It should be an "equal wage" so we all get paid $500 an hour. I mean, we're all human and we're all in this together. So we should get paid equal too....except the politicians because they have all the good ideas

and teachers, because they teach children stuff

and police because they keep people safe sometimes

and firemen because they put out fires

and environmentalists because they give us clean air to breathe or something

but NOT Preachers, Priests, or anyone religious because we have separation of Church and state and evil Christians and evil Jews oppress people.

8 posted on 02/16/2013 9:40:12 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: jongaltsr

I say we redistribute all the funds from President’s leftover election PACs to those poor minimum wage earners so the employers don’t have to pay any additional wages and it will keep the prices from rising at the same. Surely a President that is so concerned about the economy and the people would have no problem with that would he?.../s

Mo’ Powah to the People!


9 posted on 02/16/2013 9:42:20 PM PST by jsanders2001
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To: jongaltsr

I say we redistribute all the funds from President’s leftover election PACs to those poor minimum wage earners so the employers don’t have to pay any additional wages and it will keep the prices from rising at the same time. Surely a President that is so concerned about the economy and the people would have no problem with that would he?.../s

Mo’ Powah to the People!


10 posted on 02/16/2013 9:42:55 PM PST by jsanders2001
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To: fieldmarshaldj
If this goes through, I am going to adjust my billable rate upwards by 24%.

It's time for me to pay earn my "fair share".

11 posted on 02/16/2013 9:45:16 PM PST by Rodamala
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To: Repeat Offender

A bit weird.

Liberal politicians buy votes with idiots. Raising any fixed wage will raise taxes on everybody. It raises prices by convention.

Commies are all about power. They could care less about Americans having a good life.


12 posted on 02/16/2013 9:46:49 PM PST by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?)
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To: ExxonPatrolUs

It will cost 4 jobs in my company. Wife and I are selling out and taking our hard earned money with us. Working 7 days a week is actually fun so long as the government thieves don’t have their hands up your rectum steeling every penny and telling you you’re the greedy one.

Minimum wage is one thing but all the money and paperwork to keep worker comp, state income tax, state unemployment, fed unemployment, and all the payroll tax from both just makes creating and selling products no fun anymore.


13 posted on 02/16/2013 9:50:13 PM PST by liberty or death
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To: eyedigress
Just prior to the last MW raise, a few of my buddies and I were sitting in a food court eating.

We frequented this food court and were familiar with many of the employees at the various restaurants. We decided to place bets on which employees would be removed following the increase in the MW.........I went 4/5 in that endeavor.

Say, how much does a person prone to working MW jobs get paid when they raise the MW to $9/hr, but you now work 0 hours?

14 posted on 02/16/2013 9:51:31 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: eyedigress
They don’t do it for economics, low information voters like it.

You have a point.

They're going to lose a big bunch of votes when they pass the draconian gun control legislation they are pushing (and they will get it passed).

Minimum wage laws and "immigration reform" are voter creation tactics to replace those lost votes.

15 posted on 02/16/2013 9:53:17 PM PST by Washi (PUSH BACK! Encourage your legislators to introduce pro-second amendment legislation.)
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To: Repeat Offender

You know the answer to that.


16 posted on 02/16/2013 9:53:36 PM PST by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?)
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To: Repeat Offender

> “Even with the tax relief we’ve put in place, a family with two kids that earns the minimum wage still lives below the poverty line. That’s wrong,” Obama said. “Let’s declare that in the wealthiest nation on earth, no one who works full time should have to live in poverty”

Probably no longer the wealthiest nation thanks to O’s efforts. The man has been coddled all his life and buys golf club sets that cost at least 3 months or more of salary for most folks. He has no concept of what disastrous consequences his policies are having on the economy and the people nor does he care as long as he gets his. Too bad that meteorite came down in Russia the other day...: )


17 posted on 02/16/2013 9:54:03 PM PST by jsanders2001
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To: ExxonPatrolUs
What a bunch of knuckleheads in the comments at the website.

Reminds me of DU...except without the vulgarity.

18 posted on 02/16/2013 9:55:04 PM PST by mountn man (ATTITUDE- The Pleasure You Get From Life, Is Equal To The Attitude You Put Into It.)
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To: ExxonPatrolUs
i guess having only as many children as you can afford means nothing so long as i/we have to take up their slack...
19 posted on 02/16/2013 9:55:47 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: jsanders2001

Most people making $9 right now won’t get a raise but they will see price hikes from it. They will be worse off.


20 posted on 02/16/2013 9:56:57 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: ExxonPatrolUs

Gov providing more incentive to hire illegals and pay cash under the minimum wage. More low-end off-the-books jobs more illegal immigration.


21 posted on 02/16/2013 9:57:07 PM PST by morphing libertarian
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To: Washi

My work started young at .02 cents a bale in the barn. My Country disappoints me. Calls me every name in the book and takes every penny they can.

I’m on board with a revolution. Just Me


22 posted on 02/16/2013 9:57:53 PM PST by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?)
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To: ExxonPatrolUs
Timothy Noah, The New Republic. "...whatever increase a minimum-wage increase brings about in the cost of hiring is offset by an increase in economic efficiency attributable to a drop in turnover and an increase in productivity. When you pay workers a decent wage — imagine this! — they give their employers better value."

That is one of the most breathtakingly stupid economic arguments I've ever read.

But we shouldn't be surprised. Mr. Noah is a graduate of Harvard College, from which he obtained a degree in English in 1980. He was on the prose board of the Harvard Advocate. That explains his robust and brilliant economic knowledge.

23 posted on 02/16/2013 9:59:07 PM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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2 cents a bale just to clarify. After 2500 bales I bought a train set.


24 posted on 02/16/2013 10:05:11 PM PST by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?)
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To: eyedigress
In a sane world $9x0=0.

In 0bamaland $9x0 = thousands of dollars in food stamps, thousands in WIC vouchers, 0bama phones, Section 8 housing, thousands of dollars in free education, "free" school lunches for your brood, "free" healthcare, of course "disability" money from Social Security, and on and on.

25 posted on 02/16/2013 10:05:30 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: ExxonPatrolUs

Washington state already has minimum wage over $9/hour.
Unemployment rate in WA in Dec 2012 was 7.6% and dropping.
During the same month, national rate was 7.8% and steady.

However because of the highest minimum wage in country, teenagers are having tough time finding summer jobs. I know
this from first hand experience. My kids and their friends
were teenagers until last year.


26 posted on 02/16/2013 10:06:22 PM PST by entropy12 (The republic is doomed when people figure out they can get free stuff by voting democrats)
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I was a kid after all


27 posted on 02/16/2013 10:06:47 PM PST by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?)
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To: Repeat Offender

I never new it. I had a wonderful childhood. Those that came before me made it so. This world is different.


28 posted on 02/16/2013 10:09:25 PM PST by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?)
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To: eyedigress
I grew up in a single-wide trailer (all those rich jerks showing off with their fancy double-wides with all the underpinning intact). Peanut butter and jelly; spaghetti, bologna, and macaroni and cheese were staple diets, but we never got any type of "assistance."

I used to go door to door and offer to pick up cigarette butts and litter in people's yard for 50 cents (from about age 6/7); on the occasion someone gave me .75 or a dollar it was like the second coming of Christmas. I didn't get all the latest toys or an allowance. Any pocket money I did have, that's how I earned it; of course when I got bigger I could rake leaves, carry groceries etc. I certainly didn't have any name brand clothes/shoes....unless I bought them.

My parents worked their butts off to move us out of the trailer park and into a house without axles or wheels. And even then I continued to work.....I was working two jobs through high school - my steady job I'd routinely clock overtime in the summer (and violate child labor laws, but it was up on an Indian reservation so it didn't matter; though I did pay state and fed income taxes).

Every time I see the handout crowd with their 0bamabucks cards and their Escalades it burns my ass. That I've literally been working since age 7 and paying their way since I was 16.

Of course, I do do blame my upbringing and environment for my fondness of the IROC-Z and anything with "Trans Am" on it......unfortunately no "/s" tag on that.

29 posted on 02/16/2013 10:23:13 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: Repeat Offender

Most Excellent. You understand

I was a baby of 7 from the 50’s and 60’s . Life was fun but money was up to you. Dad would give a quarter from time to time.

I didn’t care, we had the best time of our lives.


30 posted on 02/16/2013 10:29:12 PM PST by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?)
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To: ExxonPatrolUs
$9 minimum wage: Poverty reducer or job killer?

Well, let's look at recent history:
In 2007, unemployment was mostly around 5.4%.
In 2008, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi passed a raise in the minimum wage.
In 2009, unemployment reached 9.8%, and still hovers around 8% even 3 years later.
During this entire 5 year period, poverty has not shrunk (we went from 17 million on food stamps in 2000 to 47 million today), prices are higher (gas went from $1.89 to $3.50, and milk went from $3.19 to $4.89 per gallon), and the national debt has exploded.

So, please tell us how any fair-minded and rational adult does not already know the answer to the title question?

31 posted on 02/16/2013 10:40:00 PM PST by Teacher317 ('Tis time to fear when tyrants seem to kiss.)
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To: ExxonPatrolUs

I would pick lettuce for $50 an hour as that asshat McCain...

Never mind.


32 posted on 02/16/2013 10:46:10 PM PST by quantim (Victory is not relative, it is absolute.)
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To: quantim

It has no net effect. Politicians do it to take up air and make like they are moving forward.


33 posted on 02/16/2013 10:55:19 PM PST by a5478 (a5478)
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To: Repeat Offender
"a family with two kids that earns the minimum wage still lives below the poverty line"

I'm still trying to figure this quote out. Are both parents working MW? They should be eligible for all KINDS of government goodies. Free healthcare, housing, phone, food stamps, childcare, etc.

Worth a whole hell of alot more than "just" MW. Probably worth close to 30K in giveaways.

And honestly I've never seen a family of 4 where both parents work MW jobs.

Not saying they don't exist, I've just never seen it. By the time you've had a couple of kids, generally you've acquired enough skills and experience that you make more than MW.

34 posted on 02/16/2013 11:08:41 PM PST by boop ("You don't look so bad, here's another")
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To: fieldmarshaldj

When inflation kicks in, it might just have to be 100 or even 500...


35 posted on 02/16/2013 11:12:36 PM PST by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: ExxonPatrolUs
Raise the Minimum Wage 20% when you Cut Entitlement Benefits 20%. Sounds like a winner to me.
36 posted on 02/16/2013 11:23:18 PM PST by Kickass Conservative (I only Fear a Government that doesn't Fear me.)
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To: jsanders2001

“Probably no longer the wealthiest nation thanks to O’s efforts.”

We are number 14 (IMF) 16 )world bank) 18 (CIA) or 19 (United Nations) according to wikipedia and who is doing the ranking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita


37 posted on 02/16/2013 11:31:17 PM PST by staytrue
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To: boop

I highly doubt that family of 4 he is talking about has 2 people over 18 in it.

I highly doubt that family of 4 has 1 diploma in it.

Why am I forced to pay for others bad decissions with my good ones?


38 posted on 02/16/2013 11:38:54 PM PST by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: cableguymn; eyedigress

Years ago, I always had a curiousity what it would be like to visit Zimbabwe or impoverished areas of Mexico and Central America. Thanks to Dubya, he brought the latter two to my neighborhood. Thanks to Emperor Zero, he’ll bring Zimbabwe to the rest of us.


39 posted on 02/16/2013 11:56:07 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

I see. Now when I pay $4 for a gallon of gas instead of $2 it lasts longer and is a better gallon. The extra cost is offset by my driving less so efficiency rises. Brilliant!

Less turnover of gallons saving wear and tear on my truck, even more brilliant! I think I’m going to demand a doubling of my pay so I can be more efficient.


40 posted on 02/17/2013 12:06:18 AM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: ExxonPatrolUs

This has absolutely zero to do with helping “poor” families, and everything to do with helping his union cronies. Union wages are tied to the minwage, so an increase bumps the income of all the union parasites.


41 posted on 02/17/2013 12:17:12 AM PST by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: ExxonPatrolUs
The last time they raised the minimum wage, from $6.55/hr to $7.25/hr- back in 2008-09, the economy crashed, unemployment skyrocketed, and we're still not recovered from it. Just sayin'.


42 posted on 02/17/2013 12:22:26 AM PST by RC one (.From My Cold Dead Hands.)
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To: ExxonPatrolUs

Job creator—

for ilegal immigrants


43 posted on 02/17/2013 2:23:30 AM PST by jdirt
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To: RC one

DING, DING, DING...
BINGO!!!!!


44 posted on 02/17/2013 2:59:05 AM PST by poobear (Socialism in the minds of the elites. is a con-game for the serfs, nothing more.)
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To: jongaltsr

“That next week we raised the price on everything in the store and so did every other store in town.”

The grocery store isn’t in business to provide anyone with groceries, they are in business to make a profit.


45 posted on 02/17/2013 3:05:24 AM PST by dalereed
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To: eyedigress

“They don’t do it for economics, low information voters like it.”

Actually, they do it because pay in union contracts is calculated in multiples of the minimum wage. Raise the minimum wage and every union employee gets a raise. Sometimes, a substantial raise. This puts more money in the union coffers.


46 posted on 02/17/2013 3:42:09 AM PST by Gen.Blather
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To: ExxonPatrolUs

This argument to raise the minimum wage only appeals to total idiots.

If you raise the minimum wage the price of whatever the minimum wage worker works at goes up.

When that goes up everything goes up ,everyone seeks more money and it just starts the cycle of inflation again.

Within a couple of weeks the figure for the p[overty level has moved up and the same poor bastids who were on it before are right back on it.


47 posted on 02/17/2013 4:00:22 AM PST by Venturer
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To: ExxonPatrolUs

Why does someone with no skills, education or work history deserve $9 an hour?


48 posted on 02/17/2013 4:14:57 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: ExxonPatrolUs
"Even with the tax relief we've put in place, a family with two kids that earns the minimum wage still lives below the poverty line. That’s wrong," Obama said.

Can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em. I mean the breed part literally, since the bastard pResident knows from personal experience that a father's role is only to be a sperm donor. A family with two kids, has a fat lazy ass mom, two thug rats and two sperm donors. That's Obama's America.

49 posted on 02/17/2013 4:21:12 AM PST by ConservativeInPA (Molon Labe)
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To: ExxonPatrolUs
"Even with the tax relief we've put in place, a family with two kids that earns the minimum wage still lives below the poverty line. That’s wrong," Obama said.

Can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em. I mean the breed part literally, since the bastard pResident knows from personal experience that a father's role is only to be a sperm donor. A family with two kids, has a fat lazy ass mom, two thug rats and two sperm donors. That's Obama's America.

50 posted on 02/17/2013 4:21:17 AM PST by ConservativeInPA (Molon Labe)
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