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THE EDITOR'S COLUMN: 'There's battle lines being drawn ...'
Morning Journal ^ | 2/17/2013 | Tom Skoch

Posted on 02/17/2013 7:39:34 AM PST by EBH

Here’s a riddle, but it’s not funny, and I’m almost afraid to contemplate the answer:

What do you get when you cross aggressive government attempts to strip citizens of their Second Amendment rights with at least 65 million American gun owners, who have just bought roughly 65 million more guns in only the last four years? Let’s just say, “trouble” could be a euphemism for an answer.

Those aggressive moves include Democratic politicians in Missouri and Minnesota introducing legislation to confiscate “assault weapons” from law-abiding citizens, who would become criminals if they refused to give up their lawfully purchased property.

In New York state, Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo rammed through an expanded ban on so-called assault weapons, requirements for background checks just to buy ammunition, or to do private sales of personally owned firearms.

Hundreds of angry New York gun owners are protesting bitterly.

Those outrages come along with Sen. Diane Feinstein’s attempt at a more-restrictive new national assault weapons ban. That effort seems to be morphing into a debate over “universal background checks.” Such checks sound reasonable until you understand that it sets the stage for gun registration, which is a prelude to confiscation.

Even the term “assault weapon” is fiction, a political creation. In fact the notion of an assault weapons ban doing any good is put to the lie by the U.S. Department of Justice’s own National Institute of Justice which noted this year, “Assault weapons are not a major contributor to gun crime.” The same report also reveals the ineffectiveness of so-called large capacity magazine bans short of draconian measures. It flat-out says universal background checks won’t work without gun registration.

Oddly, the renewed efforts by liberal politicians to clamp down on private gun owners comes as the Department of Homeland Security is moving to buy...

(Excerpt) Read more at morningjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Local News; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: banglist; dhs; guncontrol; guns; secondamendment
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1 posted on 02/17/2013 7:39:41 AM PST by EBH
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To: EBH

Deny. Defy. Do Not Comply.


2 posted on 02/17/2013 7:44:51 AM PST by x1stcav (Man up! We're all going to have to become Samuel Whittemores.)
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To: EBH

Politicians know an election is due in 14,if they vote the wrong way it will be their last election.


3 posted on 02/17/2013 7:50:20 AM PST by Vaduz
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To: EBH

What do you get when you cross aggressive government attempts to strip citizens of their Second Amendment rights with at least 65 million American gun owners, who have just bought roughly 65 million more guns in only the last four years? Let’s just say, “trouble” could be a euphemism for an answer.

Let’s skip the euphemism and say revolution.


4 posted on 02/17/2013 7:53:21 AM PST by satan (sic semper tyrannis)
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To: satan
I thought it interesting this is starting to finally creep into the MSM. Small town talk for now....but it is starting to percolate up into the common knowledge of people beyond the conservative base.

Not the “revolution” part, but at least the recognition that something appears very wrong & very off...

5 posted on 02/17/2013 7:57:10 AM PST by EBH ( The 2nd Amendment exists for times like this.)
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To: EBH

In a nutshell. this is like a game of chicken between a 1974 Dodge Charger and a 1976 Chevy Monte Carlo whee no one is willing to turn. This will not end well if they keep pushing and pushing.


6 posted on 02/17/2013 8:03:15 AM PST by Nowhere Man (Whitey, I miss you so much. Take care, pretty girl. (4-15-2001 - 10-12-2012))
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To: Vaduz

“Politicians know an election is due in 14,if they vote the wrong way it will be their last election.”
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Their goal is to make voting an exercise in futility and they have very nearly achieved that goal already. Their fear of elections is rapidly diminishing. The ballot box is not the box that will stop them, especially when the ballot box is replaced by an electronic black box that can be programmed to produce the desired result regardless of the intent of the voters.


7 posted on 02/17/2013 8:04:29 AM PST by RipSawyer (I was born on Earth, what planet is this?)
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To: x1stcav
My philosophjy has it that there is nothing more lovable (to an individual) than a well treated animal.

A philosophy of hate prevails today..

8 posted on 02/17/2013 8:04:51 AM PST by OldNavyVet
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To: Nowhere Man

If arrested demand a jury trial

It worked for OJ. No way I sit on the jury and convict anyone of keeping his legally bought weapon, and he hasn’t broken any other law.


9 posted on 02/17/2013 8:06:03 AM PST by Venturer
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To: EBH

The reason politicians want these guns banned is not because they are a danger to us.

They do not give a **** about us.

It’s because they are a danger to them.


10 posted on 02/17/2013 8:07:42 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: x1stcav
"Deny. Defy. Do Not Comply."

Most importantly - "Deny". Don't ever ever tell anyone what you have or don't have. Just lie! Yes, I said lie to anyone who is not your most trusted compatriot.

In this age of Constitutional shredding, no one should have any moral obligation to tell the truth to any who would strip you of your natural right to defend yourself and family. Just lie, and feel good about it.

11 posted on 02/17/2013 8:07:58 AM PST by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever.)
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To: chris37

Political power flows out of the end (as in confiscation) of barrels.


12 posted on 02/17/2013 8:10:44 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: A Navy Vet

As this ‘shredding’ continues, I am no longer able to consider myself a law-abiding citizen but rather a peaceable one......until I can’t.


13 posted on 02/17/2013 8:17:42 AM PST by yadent
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To: Venturer

I like the idea of jury nullification.


14 posted on 02/17/2013 8:19:23 AM PST by Nowhere Man (Whitey, I miss you so much. Take care, pretty girl. (4-15-2001 - 10-12-2012))
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To: RipSawyer

Their goal is to make voting an exercise in futility.

They do fear election because so many states are changing election rules.
Motor voter law
Photo ID laws
No electronic votes
Why do you think they are fighting so hard to stop the changes.


15 posted on 02/17/2013 8:19:29 AM PST by Vaduz
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To: EBH

16 posted on 02/17/2013 8:20:59 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: satan

Romania. Just put it on the table.


17 posted on 02/17/2013 8:23:06 AM PST by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (Vendetta))
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To: OldNavyVet
A philosophy of hate prevails today..

Hating the good (specifically, individual freedom) is what prevails today.

18 posted on 02/17/2013 8:24:15 AM PST by OldNavyVet
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To: EBH

The tide will not turn until they fear us more than we fear them.


19 posted on 02/17/2013 8:28:01 AM PST by fattigermaster (When tigers hunt, the jackals profit...when tigers sleep, the jackals rule.)
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To: Travis McGee

Thanks Travis. Graphic and to the point. God Be With Us!


20 posted on 02/17/2013 8:28:18 AM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: no-to-illegals

Thanks. I’ve got a ton of them.


21 posted on 02/17/2013 8:31:17 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Vaduz
Politicians know an election is due in 14,if they vote the wrong way it will be their last election.

They've been voting the wrong way for the past 50 years, and yet they are still there.

22 posted on 02/17/2013 8:31:17 AM PST by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: EBH

“We have a weapon more powerful… than any in the whole arsenal of the British Empire! That weapon… is our refusal!” - Michael Collins


23 posted on 02/17/2013 8:36:37 AM PST by Lexington Green (Keeping it real is keeping you down, Fool.)
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To: EBH

Those MO pols should understand the folly of imagining they can disarm those folks in the Ozarks. I do think they actually know better.


24 posted on 02/17/2013 8:38:48 AM PST by Dysart
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To: EBH

We are already in a slow boil civil war over debt slavery to the welfare state. 2nd amendment gun grab is just part of it.
http://www.futurnamics.com/civilwar.php


25 posted on 02/17/2013 8:39:08 AM PST by DaxtonBrown (http://www.futurnamics.com/reid.php)
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To: UCANSEE2

The mafia is hard to stop.


26 posted on 02/17/2013 8:40:12 AM PST by Vaduz
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To: A Navy Vet

Ironic, isn’t it, that lying to agents of the government will become a patriotic duty.


27 posted on 02/17/2013 8:40:55 AM PST by x1stcav (Man up! We're all going to have to become Samuel Whittemores.)
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To: yadent
As this ‘shredding’ continues, I am no longer able to consider myself a law-abiding citizen but rather a peaceable one......until I can’t.

Well, as a friend of mine puts it, "The law is not always sacrosanct." Or as Mr. Bumble from "Oliver Twist" puts it, "the law is an ass - an idiot." I always admired Henry Hyde's speech on the rule of law during the Clinton Hearings on impeachment, but as he warned, we are becoming a nation ruled by men with bad laws.
28 posted on 02/17/2013 8:43:03 AM PST by Nowhere Man (Whitey, I miss you so much. Take care, pretty girl. (4-15-2001 - 10-12-2012))
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To: Paladin2

That it does, and the masterminds want us to have none.


29 posted on 02/17/2013 8:43:52 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: RipSawyer; Vaduz
“Politicians know an election is due in 14,if they vote the wrong way it will be their last election.”

Right. They're quaking in their Guccis.

2012 House incumbent reelection rates

In the 2012 elections, all 435 House seats were contested.


30 posted on 02/17/2013 8:46:58 AM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: EBH

Are we close to holding a Constitutional Convention yet, or are people still worried that a Convention will take away their RKBA? For my part, we still have at least on peaceful option left and we are obligated to discuss it. And know that the more serious the discussion about a Convention becomes and the more people join in, the more frantic it will make the left. And keep in mind that whatever a Convention passes must also be ratified by a super-majority of the surviving states.

see also:

State resistance to rogue post-constitutional federal government: the last best hope
http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=47194

A Bill Of Federalism
Randy E. Barnett, 05.20.09, 4:11 PM ET

http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/20/bill-of-federalism-constitution-states-supreme-court-opinions-contributors-randy-barnett_print.html


31 posted on 02/17/2013 8:52:05 AM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: satan

“Revolution” to what end? If we only restore the RKBA but still allow government to dig us deeper into debt-serfdom, we are fools. The tyranny is broader than just the assault on the 2A. That is why we are obligated to redefine the federal government. And we can do that without shedding a drop of blood, something the molon labe crowd seems eager to do.


32 posted on 02/17/2013 8:57:48 AM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: theBuckwheat

I’ll ask you again ... Do you actually trust the people in power to hold a legitimate CC to protect the rights of the people contained therein the Constitution and the Bill of Rights? I do not!


33 posted on 02/17/2013 9:13:58 AM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: EBH
65 million American gun owners

Excuse me? Where did they get 65 million from?

Estimates are from 100 – 120 Million [ 52% of households own guns, 76% of the nation’s 313 Million are over 18, crank the numbers and you get that second number]

Even the Gun grabbers have our numbers at 80 Million.

AND factor in the stampede of people getting guns…

34 posted on 02/17/2013 9:19:21 AM PST by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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To: EBH; All

I have a friend who lives in Florida. Does anyone know if Florida has any bills about guns in their legislature now? Are they trying to elimate guns of some type or wanting to register guns?


35 posted on 02/17/2013 9:23:02 AM PST by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: satan

Which is why they are doing their best to Lie about their full agenda in most cases.

They know that they would have a full-scale melee on their hands if they came out calling for Confiscation.

They know the only way they have a prayer is to lie and go about this incrementally.

This time around they want Unconstitutional control over you private property and Registration.

As soon as they get that they will tighten their grip with Registration of certain kinds of guns So-called “Assault Weapons”

Clearing that hurdle, they will push for Registration of a ALL guns, followed by Confiscation.


36 posted on 02/17/2013 9:27:59 AM PST by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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To: no-to-illegals

I trust that the majority of Americans love liberty and will uphold the Constitution. In fact many recent polls show very strong support for the 2A. That is NOT the point.

Should someone in New York State come to the attention of the authorities and they move on him with force to arrest him for the crime of having a single magazine with excess capacity, and he pulls a molon labe, killing a decorated State Trooper who leaves behind a wife and two sweet children (here see how sweet this now ravished family looks?) what is the liberal media going to do with that story.

The point is that the public has no option but to support existing government. Calling for a Constitutional Convention gives the public an option they didn’t have before- and do you think the public is going to take an option that decreases liberty or one that increases it?

Do you think the public is going to vote to give the Hitlers of our time more power or to take power away from them? Well, look at how the voters in quite a few states voted with respect to ObamaCare. Zero voters have voted for it, and many have voted to forbid their states to allow it.

I think we have the means to redefine the federal government if only we would take the effort to explain the need. Let the David Gregorys of the world tell the public why government needs more power and has not abused the power we have given it. Let us have that public debate.

Here is a question for you: What rights can we lose that are not already in danger? With a million people in Florida and 3/4 of a million in Texas who have CCW permits, are voters going to repeal the 2A? How many state legislatures are going to vote to ratify a new Constitution that lacks a 2A?


37 posted on 02/17/2013 9:28:47 AM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: theBuckwheat
The Constitution as it is written is just fine.

I am totally AGAINST a Constitutional Convention. This would only open the doors to destruction of the Constitution.

The Constitution was written to protect us against corrupt tyrannical government, which is exactly what we are facing now. Why would you allow them the opportunity to complete the socialization of this country?

38 posted on 02/17/2013 9:30:00 AM PST by 2111USMC (aim small, miss small)
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To: theBuckwheat

To what good is a CC?

None, it will accomplish nothing. It will fail to hold in check the government.


39 posted on 02/17/2013 9:36:05 AM PST by EBH ( The 2nd Amendment exists for times like this.)
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To: theBuckwheat
support existing government

I support no government which will defy the current in place Constitution and Bill of Rights. If that means I do not currently support the government in place in our nation at this time, then so be it. You bring up interesting points, and it all boils down to who do you trust. That trust must be place in the people, one cannot trust government or its known arm called a media, nor a CC to keep the People's Rights in place. People must rely on themselves. People have to do the right things for throughout history governments seldom, if ever do. So who do you trust? If you trust the People ... then leave the People's Constitution and the People's Bill of Rights alone. The People are asking to be left alone. Can and will the government comply? History tells us no. Thank God, our Founders knew this day would come, and Thank God they were wise enough to arm us. I do not want to fire at an enemy in front of me, but if I have to make the choice to protect my family, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights I being the dog I am will do what God will grant me the power to do.

I type now from a keyboard. May God grant me that privilege to continue as the Men and Women who fought for this right granted me and if I am acting in God's Will may I pass this right to my children and grandchildren to act to uphold this nation's Constitution and Bill of Rights. In Jesus Name, I pray dear Lord ... Amen

40 posted on 02/17/2013 9:46:32 AM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: EBH
At the time of the American Revolution, if citizens in the colonies did not have their own rifles/handguns in order to field an army, Queen Elizabeth would be our ruler and Piers Morgan would be a legal fellow countryman of ours - that thought is sickening - thanks be to God for our ability to make firearms!
41 posted on 02/17/2013 9:52:01 AM PST by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: theBuckwheat

I’ll give you one other clue. To repeal the Second is to repeal every other Right contained within the Bill of Rights, which you and I hold dear. Governments by nature are tyrants. Please remember your history. Do not advocate for a repeat of history. No sane person wants to go there. Be Sane, and Stay Safe. The safety you protect is for your children and grandchildren and countless generation to be born in America. Forget who hates us. They will hate us even if we surrender our firearms. Never trust government or its media arm they will only seek yours and my destruction.


42 posted on 02/17/2013 9:56:51 AM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: no-to-illegals

The problem for all of us is that with every passing day government is less and less bound by the chains of the enumerated powers of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

The assault on the RKBA is only one symptom of the cancer of Leviathan government. The question for us is broader than just preserving the RKBA. Don’t forget the RKBA exists to protect us against a tyrannous government that has run amok.

BUT TO WHAT END??? That we just get the present tyrannous government to back off on being tyrannous with respect to the RKBA and then we will go home?

NO! To the end that when government run amok it is our obligation to repair the defects that allowed that breakout. And what about “shall not be infringed” is defective? The defect is in the dynamics of the judicial branch, a branch that turns up down and makes black white. Maybe we need to have a Nullification Amendment like Randy Barnett proposes. Maybe we need to a federal judiciary that must stand for a retention vote every four years (in the off-year). We certainly need to strengthen the power of the jury to decide the law as well as the facts!

Look at how apoplectic it will make the left when we have such a discussion. That will be half the fun!


43 posted on 02/17/2013 9:59:48 AM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: no-to-illegals

“Please remember your history. Do not advocate for a repeat of history.”

And should we just reset the present Leviathan government without changing anything, history gives advocates of tyranny a roadmap to drive us right back to the very same fork in the road we are at right now.

That is why we must make a change and the means for that change is a Convention. All other roads are far more likley to quickly lead us to bloodshed.


44 posted on 02/17/2013 10:04:33 AM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: theBuckwheat
All other roads are far more likley to quickly lead us to bloodshed.

I am an advocate for the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Rule of Law. Leave the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the Rule of Law alone FRiend. You want trouble? Go toward a CC and then there will be trouble. I have probably been on this Earth longer than you. I can sense trouble and I have no doubt a CC means trouble. No sane person wants trouble.

One can only pray sometimes and this is one of those times. Leave it be, please.

45 posted on 02/17/2013 10:12:29 AM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: theBuckwheat

Seems to me that the constitution is not the problem, the problem is the politicians have not followed it for years. Wish we could just wipe the slate clean, all the laws and Supreme Court decisions made since.


46 posted on 02/17/2013 10:18:16 AM PST by Rusty0604
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To: EBH
How many American will comply with a prohibition on armed self defense?

When the prohibition amendment was passed and the Volstead Act was enacted, about three months after that I came through Portland, Oreg. Now there is a certain district in Portland Oreg. where there is the so-called employment district--- it is usually amongst the working people, called the "slave market"--- and I was the most astonished man you ever saw. Before that I had seen drunkenness there, dilapidated men, helpless, and in any condition that you do not want to see human beings. This time, three months after this act was passed there was an entire change. The men walked around from one place to another looking for employment, seamen and others. And they were sober. And they looked at the conditions, and they said, "No, we will wait a little." There was more independence amongst them than I had ever seen before. That very class which is the worst and lowest class that we know of amongst the seamen and workingmen. And I became an ardent advocate of the Volstead Act.

Two years afterwards I came through the same identical place, staying in Portland for about three days, and went to the very same place for the purpose of looking at the situation, and the condition was worse than it had been prior to the passage of the law. As long as the prohibition legislation was enforced, could be enforced, as long as the bootlegging element had not been organized, and not get the stuff, everything looked well. But the moment that they could get it they got it. And they will find it when nobody else can. They will find it somewhere. If it is to be bought in the vicinity any where they will find it. And the condition is worse than it ever was, because the stuff that they drink is worse than ever.

- Testimony of Andrew Furuseth, President of the International Seamen's Union of America, The National Prohibition Law, Hearings before the Subcommittee of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, Sixty-Ninth Congress, April 5 to 24, 1926"

My guess: Whatever percentage of Americans who don't want to violate the law will sell their firearms to those who don't care before the grace period expires - and then buy back weapons once they see how essential firearms are in an "unarmed" country.

We have an absolute human right to defend ourselves, our families, and our freedom, and any "law" that demands we disarm is invalid. I would guess that even those who would not openly or covertly defy an unconstitutional ban on guns would MUCH rather have their arms in the hands of "criminals" who buy and sell weapons illegally than in the hands of a tyrannical government - although the best hands for our weapons are our own.

47 posted on 02/17/2013 10:31:32 AM PST by Pollster1
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To: Rusty0604

I have read some wise things you stated the last couple of days. Wondering how we could set the stage to do a constitutional evaluation of our current legal code. That would radically simplify our legal system but now even the supreme court justices do not abide by the constitution.


48 posted on 02/17/2013 10:40:55 AM PST by RS_Rider (I hate Illinois Nazis)
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To: Rusty0604

“Seems to me that the constitution is not the problem, the problem is the politicians have not followed it for years. Wish we could just wipe the slate clean, all the laws and Supreme Court decisions made since.”

First, as I have previously written, should we just reset our government without repairing the defects, history will guide new politicians back to the same tyranny.

The Constitution does indeed have weaknesses that allow tyrannous people to exploit. For example, the commerce clause has been expanded to allow any federal intrusion as long as it can be justified economically. See the Kelo decision where a private home was seized to build a parking garage. The general welfare clause now allows income redistribution.

See Randy Barnett’s essay in Forbes on this very topic:

A Bill Of Federalism
Randy E. Barnett, 05.20.09, 4:11 PM ET

http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/20/bill-of-federalism-constitution-states-supreme-court-opinions-contributors-randy-barnett_print.html


49 posted on 02/17/2013 10:57:40 AM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: EBH

50 posted on 02/17/2013 11:01:59 AM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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