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All Of This Whining About The Sequester Shows Why America Is Doomed
Zero Hedge ^ | 02/28/13 | Michael Snyder

Posted on 03/01/2013 7:17:13 AM PST by pgkdan

If we can't even cut federal spending by 2.4 percent without much of the country throwing an absolute hissy fit, then what hope does America have? All of this whining and crying about the sequester is absolutely disgraceful. The truth is that even if the sequester goes into effect, the U.S. government will still take in more money than ever before in 2013 and it will still spend more money than ever before in 2013. So it is a bit disingenuous to call what is about to happen "a spending cut", but for the sake of argument let's concede that point. Even if the budget really was being "cut" by 85 billion dollars, that only would only amount to a "cut" of 2.4 percent to federal spending. It would barely make a dent in the federal budget deficit for 2013.

The U.S. government would still accumulate about as much new debt in fiscal year 2013 as it did in all the years from the inauguration of George Washington to the inauguration of Ronald Reagan combined. Our debt to GDP ratio would continue to soar. The sequester cuts would essentially only be a minor bump on the road to financial oblivion. But if you listen to Barack Obama and his allies, they would have you believe that we are facing a great national crisis because of these impending cuts. They would have you believe that hundreds of thousands of people will lose their jobs and that many government agencies will no longer be able to operate effectively. They would have you believe that "granny won't get her lunch" and "roofs blown off by Hurricane Sandy won't get repaired".

Well, if all of that is true, then what in the world would our country look like if we actually cut a trillion dollars from the federal budget this year and started living within our means?

Have you ever known people that are already hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and yet go out and regularly blow thousands more dollars on wild shopping sprees?

Such debt addicts may be very proud of their new homes, their new cars, their new clothes and all of their fancy electronic gadgets, but it was all purchased with debt. When a "day of reckoning" finally arrives, many debt addicts lose absolutely everything and end up in the street.

That is what America is like today.

Our politicians like to show off all of the stuff that our government is spending money on, but the truth is that we are spending gigantic mountains of money that we simply do not have. We are literally stealing from our kids and our grandkids so that we can continue to enjoy a massively inflated standard of living that we have not earned.

But we can't stop ourselves. Americans are absolutely addicted to big government. They want a gigantic government that sends out free money to more than 100 million Americans every month, but they absolutely do not want to pay for it. They would rather steal money from their children and their grandchildren to pay for it.

This has got to stop, because we are literally destroying the future of this country.

If Americans really want a massively bloated government that takes care of everyone from the cradle to the grave then they should pay for it.

If Americans don't want to pay for it, then they should reduce the size of the government to a level where they are willing to pay for it.

But stealing money from future generations of Americans to pay our bills is absolutely disgraceful.

As I talked about in a previous article, we are stealing more than 100 million dollars from our children and our grandchildren every single hour of every single day.

Is there anyone out there that is willing to stand up and defend that kind of theft?

But the vast majority of Americans don't want to do anything to stop it, because they don't want to harm "the economy" (i.e. our ridiculously bloated standard of living).

Will the sequester cuts hurt the economy a bit?

Of course.

Government spending cuts always hurt the economy.

If we raised taxes to help pay the bills that the federal government has been racking up, would that hurt the economy?

Of course.

Tax increases always hurt the economy.

But if we continue on the path that we are today, America is doomed.

The U.S. national debt is the biggest single debt in the history of the world. It is now more than 16.6 trillion dollars, and it has gotten more than 23 times larger since Jimmy Carter first entered the White House.

If our politicians suddenly decided to go to a balanced budget today, our debt-fueled "bubble economy" would disappear and we would immediately plunge into a deep economic depression.

Do the American people have the character to be able to handle that kind of an "adjustment" to our standard of living?

Of course not.

That is why so many of our politicians are scared to death of doing anything about the debt.

And even these small sequester "cuts" are freaking everyone out. Many of our politicians and many in the mainstream media are openly declaring that "the sky is falling". Just check out the following short excerpt from a recent New York Times article...

The owner of a Missouri smokehouse that makes beef jerky is worried about a slowdown in food safety inspections. A Montana school district is drawing up a list of teachers who could face layoffs. Officials at an Arizona border station fear that lines to cross the border could lengthen. And if Olympic National Park in Washington cannot hire enough workers to plow backcountry trails, they may stay closed until the snow melts in July.

But that is nothing compared to what others are saying. CNN is declaring that if the sequester cuts happen, "granny won't get her lunch" and "roofs blown off by Hurricane Sandy won't get repaired".

And check out these ominous warnings from Barack Obama about what will happen if the sequester cuts go into effect...

"Emergency responders like the ones who are here today -- their ability to help communities respond to and recover from disasters will be degraded. Border Patrol agents will see their hours reduced. FBI agents will be furloughed. Federal prosecutors will have to close cases and let criminals go. Air traffic controllers and airport security will see cutbacks, which means more delays at airports across the country. Thousands of teachers and educators will be laid off. Tens of thousands of parents will have to scramble to find childcare for their kids. Hundreds of thousands of Americans will lose access to primary care and preventive care like flu vaccinations and cancer screenings."

The Obama administration has even decided to release hundreds of illegal immigrants in anticipation of the cuts...

Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials have released “several hundred” immigrants from deportation centers across the country, saying the move is an effort to cut costs ahead of budget cuts due to hit later this week.

Announcing the news Tuesday, ICE officials said that the immigrants were released under supervision and continue to face deportation. After reviewing hundreds of cases, those released were considered low-risk and “noncriminal,” officials said.

The claims about the sequester cuts just seem to get more ridiculous with each passing day. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano is warning that the cuts will make the U.S. more vulnerable to terrorist attacks, and Obama recently decided not to send an aircraft carrier to the Persian Gulf because of "budget concerns".

Apparently he sees no problem with using the U.S. military to score political points.

And Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke says that the budget cuts will result in "less actual deficit reduction in the short run".

Really?

How stupid do they think we all are?

Yes, the sequester cuts will have an impact on the economy, but they won't cause the sky to fall.

The following is what the CBO says the economic impact of the cuts is likely to be...

The Congressional Budget Office estimates the cuts will cost 750,000 jobs and hit growth by 0.6 percentage points, assuming the cuts remain in effect for the remainder of the fiscal year. Some economists expect a slightly bigger impact.

Remember, these are actually very small cuts.

In fact, according to U.S. Representative Lynn Jenkins, the U.S. government will actually be spending more money in 2013 than it did in 2012 even if the sequester cuts go into effect...

“There’s a fact that says we are going to take in more money this fiscal year than we have ever taken in before,” Jenkins said. “The budget this year, we will spend more money this year than we spent last year even if the sequester goes into effect. We will spend more money even if the sequester goes into effect.”

So why is everyone whining and crying over such a very small amount of money?

If you want to get upset about something, why not get upset about things that are increasing our debt by trillions of dollars?

For example, according to a Government Accountability Office report that was just released, Obamacare is going to cause the federal debt to rise by $6.2 trillion.

Why aren't more people getting upset over that?

Sadly, it is because America is a debt addict. Most Americans don't really care much when federal spending skyrockets out of control, but if anyone tries to slow down the spending a little bit they throw hissy fits.

And please don't tell me that "the big government Republicans" are much better than "the big government Democrats" on budget issues. The Republicans have caved in and have gone along with all of this wild spending every single time.

On March 27th, they will have another opportunity to do something. That is when the current continuing resolution expires.

At that time, the Republicans could refuse to pass anything but a balanced budget.

Or they could at least refuse to pass anything except a budget that would cut the federal budget deficit in half.

But they won't do anything once again. They will cave in and go along with the status quo because they are cowards.

So we will continue to rip off future generations to fuel our current bloated standard of living.

Thomas Jefferson understood that government borrowing is theft from future generations. He once made the following statement....

And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.

Shame on you Democrats.

Shame on you Republicans.

Shame on you America.

You are destroying the future of America for your own selfish reasons.

If future generations get the chance, they will look back on what you did to them and they will curse you for it.

For much more on our exploding national debt, please see the following article: "55 Facts About The Debt And U.S. Government Finances That Every American Voter Should Know".

Not that living within our means would be easy.

Like I said, it would mean a deep economic depression, and it would also likely mean a tremendous amount of societal chaos.

Even now, while we are still living in the boom times, things are really starting to get crazy out there. Just check out what is going on in Oakland...

Oakland’s crime problems have gotten so bad that some people aren’t even bothering to call the cops anymore; instead, they’re trying to solve and prevent crimes themselves.

KPIX 5 cameras caught up with a half dozen neighbors in East Oakland’s Arcadia Park neighborhood Monday as they walked the streets on the lookout for crime. The vigilance has never seemed more necessary than now; 25 homes in the neighborhood have been burglarized over the last two months alone.

In a neighborhood that has started to feel like the wild west, people have even started posting “wanted” signs.

“You have to walk around in your house with a gun to feel safe here,” said Alaska Tarvins of the Arcadia Park Board of Directors.

If this is how bad things are now, how bad will they be when a day of reckoning for our economy arrives?

And a day of reckoning is coming.

Our politicians can try to keep kicking the can down the road for as long as they can, but eventually time will run out. Just take a look at what is happening in Greece and Spain. Meanwhile, all of this can kicking is just making the eventual crisis even worse.

We can borrow our way to prosperity for a while, but in the end there is always a very bitter price to pay for doing so.

I would love to tell you that there is a chance that all of this will be turned around, but the truth is that all of this whining and crying about the sequester shows that America is doomed.

I hope that you are getting ready.


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS:
Just about says it all...
1 posted on 03/01/2013 7:17:18 AM PST by pgkdan
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To: pgkdan

It’s the news media that controls what people talk about and how people talk about it.

contact Republicans in Congress . use Twitter and tell them not to cave on this sequester bs


2 posted on 03/01/2013 7:30:30 AM PST by Democrat_media (media makes mass shooters household names to create more & take our guns)
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To: pgkdan
It isn't a "2%" cut to all of Federal spending.

62% of all Federal entitlement spending is exempt from sequestration.

The Dept of Defense must take a 13% cut alone in this fiscal year.

Do you understand the difference?

3 posted on 03/01/2013 7:30:30 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: pgkdan

Yes it does just about say it all. In the last year of the Clinton Administration, the budget was $1.77 trillion dollars. Now it is $3.8 trillion dollars. Spending more than doubled in a little over 10 years. MORE THAN DOUBLED IN ONE DECADE. Yet we can’t cut 2% to 3% from this amount. Hell, it isn’t even a real cut. Its a cut from what was planned to be spent. We really are doomed if we are this addicted to spending. Its just like a heroin addict. Cut back even a little and they go crazy.


4 posted on 03/01/2013 7:32:37 AM PST by Opinionated Blowhard ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: pgkdan
"If we can't even cut federal spending by 2.4 percent without much of the country throwing an absolute hissy fit"

Please note that sequestration doesn't "cut federal spending" by 2.4 percent it merely reduces INCREASES in spendindg by 2.4 percent. If we cant reduce spending increases by 2.4 percent without going into this kind of hysteria then you can multiply every point this article makes X 10.

5 posted on 03/01/2013 7:35:16 AM PST by circlecity
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To: SkyPilot
The Dept of Defense must take a 13% cut alone in this fiscal year. Do you understand the difference?

So what? Ther DOD budget is so fat it should burst. The defense budget has more than doubled since 2001...and the war expenses were off budget. A 13% cut is NOTHING!

6 posted on 03/01/2013 7:35:34 AM PST by pgkdan ( "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson)
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To: SkyPilot
We are broke.

Do you understand the reality?

All areas need cuts. We need to start somewhere. Defense isn't where I would like to start, but I want to start somewhere. I support all cuts, in every area. Cut. Cut. Cut. No sacred cows.

7 posted on 03/01/2013 7:36:49 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (The ballot box is a sham. Nothing will change until after the war.)
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To: circlecity

Exactly!


8 posted on 03/01/2013 7:37:31 AM PST by pgkdan ( "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Defense isn't where I would like to start, but I want to start somewhere. I support all cuts, in every area. Cut. Cut. Cut. No sacred cows

Me too. My only aruemnet with the cuts is that too much was taken off the table...the real budget busters, SS, Medicare & Medicaide, Welfare, Food Stamps, Housing Assisitance etc.

9 posted on 03/01/2013 7:39:50 AM PST by pgkdan ( "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson)
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To: pgkdan

2% cut? Fine - every single gov’t expenditure - 2% - that includes Medicare, Medicaid, SS, VA Benefits, every single gov’t employee from the President on down.

share the pain


10 posted on 03/01/2013 7:41:21 AM PST by SoftballMominVA
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To: pgkdan

2% cut? Fine - every single gov’t expenditure - 2% - that includes Medicare, Medicaid, SS, VA Benefits, every single gov’t employee from the President on down.

share the pain


11 posted on 03/01/2013 7:41:32 AM PST by SoftballMominVA
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To: pgkdan

The sequester is a good segue into entitlement cuts and the ho-hum public attitude is actually a very encouraging sign. Republicans will take a lack of significant public anger as a free hand to press Obama for still more concessions on the spending they see as a driver of the debt.


12 posted on 03/01/2013 7:44:19 AM PST by erlayman
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To: circlecity

If we can’t even cut federal spending by 2.4 percent without much of the country throwing an absolute hissy fit”
= = = = = = = = = = = = =
You have to remember for those that haven’t been or refuse to pay attention, they have been bombarded for the last two weeks, non stop, about all the perils of doing something ‘chicken little himself’ not only invented but pushed and threatened the people that said you can’t do this a year or so ago.
Good example on Chris Plante (WMAL 630AM DC)

Say you made 100,000 last year and your boss told you that you would get a raise to 110,000 on Mar 1.
Mar 1 rolls along and he says, “Sorry, I can only do 108,000 at this time”. While you may not ‘like’ it, in reality you did get an 8 thousand dollar raise, not the 10 you were expecting BUT 8 is nothing to sneeze at.
So “do you panic and sell everything, including your children”?
Obozo took the 85 million (nice round #) and applied (hypothetically) it (THE FULL AMOUNT) to every agency and led his gasping followers to believe the sky was really falling.


13 posted on 03/01/2013 7:49:27 AM PST by xrmusn (6/98 "It is virtually impossible to clean the pond as long as the pigs are still crapping in it")
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To: pgkdan
As I talked about in a previous article, we are stealing more than 100 million dollars from our children and our grandchildren every single hour of every single day.

Well, we are simply borrowing the money into existence. It will never be paid back, by children or grandchildren or anybody else.

Which means that the value of Social Security, Medicare, and government bonds are all going to zero at some point. If you are counting on any form of government-backed stipend in the future - don't.

14 posted on 03/01/2013 7:49:36 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Bingo.

However start returning American manufacturing.

That is the reason we are losing everything else, is that we are losing manufacturing.

Now that the GOP lost the presidency, it no longer makes sense to continue this march into a hole.

Brink back American factories and American jobs.

Now.


15 posted on 03/01/2013 7:51:22 AM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: SkyPilot

Seems disproportionate. However, I remember the $100 toilet seat and $200 hammer.

I know, cliches and old news but no doubt, NO DOUBT, there is waste in all government. We’d probably be shocked at the waste and the only way to root out the waste is to force the government because we know for certain that they can’t do it themselves.


16 posted on 03/01/2013 7:52:13 AM PST by dhs12345
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To: circlecity

You nailed it. We have to be willing (as a nation) to get down to the ZERO INCREASE level before we can even begin to make the necessary cuts. I don’t see us ever getting there in time.


17 posted on 03/01/2013 7:54:51 AM PST by zzeeman ("We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality.")
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To: ClearCase_guy
Defense isn't where I would like to start, but I want to start somewhere.

The problem is that they always start cuts with DOD and then the cuts end.....

18 posted on 03/01/2013 7:55:35 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: ClearCase_guy

Yes CUT CUT CUT government!

When have they EVER cut government? NEVER

it’s time. Tell Boner and the GOP not to cave to this sequester bs. Let the stupid sequester come, let the cuts happen , finally we might get a reduction in government for the first time in history. But I doubt it. I bet Boner caves but I hope I’m wrong.


19 posted on 03/01/2013 7:57:19 AM PST by Democrat_media (media makes mass shooters household names to create more & take our guns)
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To: Mr. Jeeves
It will never be paid back, by children or grandchildren or anybody else.

That's correct. The total amount owed if you include the unfunded liabilities are far beyond too large to ever be "paid back." Even if by some miracle the country as a whole became willing to even try to do it at some point.

20 posted on 03/01/2013 7:59:19 AM PST by zzeeman ("We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality.")
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To: SkyPilot

That doesn’t add up. A 2.4% cut using only 38% of the federal budget is still only a 6.3% to those budgets being cut.


21 posted on 03/01/2013 8:02:52 AM PST by wordsofearnest (Proper aim of giving is to put the recipient in a state where he no longer needs it. C.S. Lewis)
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To: pgkdan
Ther DOD budget is so fat it should burst. The defense budget has more than doubled since 2001...and the war expenses were off budget. A 13% cut is NOTHING!

Clinton and Newty slashed the DOD budget (and only the DOD budget) in the nineties to 50% of what it was under Reagan in the eighties and also 50% of what it was in the sixties.

Meanwhile all other federal government outlays continue to balloon every year.

22 posted on 03/01/2013 8:04:11 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: xrmusn

Your example is way off. If government workers were only getting a 2 percent raise I am sure there would not be any complaining. BUT this is the TRUE scenario....I get 1,096.00 every two weeks....After April, I will get 876.80 every two weeks. That is REALITY!!!!! So much for your ridiculous example.


23 posted on 03/01/2013 8:04:19 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: Mr. Jeeves

And relating to social security:

Many people believe that Social Security is an “earned right.” That is, they think that because they have paid Social Security taxes, they are entitled to receive Social Security benefits. The government encourages that belief by referring to Social Security taxes as “contributions,” as in the Federal Insurance Contribution Act. However, in the 1960 case of Fleming v. Nestor, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that workers have no legally binding contractual rights to their Social Security benefits, and that those benefits can be cut or even eliminated at any time.

Nestor sued, claiming that because he had paid Social Security taxes, he had a right to Social Security benefits.

The Supreme Court disagreed, saying “To engraft upon the Social Security system a concept of ‘accrued property rights’ would deprive it of the flexibility and boldness in adjustment to ever changing conditions which it demands.” The Court went on to say, “It is apparent that the non-contractual interest of an employee covered by the [Social Security] Act cannot be soundly analogized to that of the holder of an annuity, whose right to benefits is bottomed on his contractual premium payments.”


In an earlier case, Helvering v. Davis (1937), the Court had ruled that Social Security was not a contributory insurance program, saying, “The proceeds of both the employee and employer taxes are to be paid into the Treasury like any other internal revenue generally, and are not earmarked in any way.”

In other words, Social Security is not an insurance program at all. It is simply a payroll tax on one side and a welfare program on the other.


24 posted on 03/01/2013 8:09:16 AM PST by CharlesMartelsGhost
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To: dhs12345

First of all, the toilet seat and hammer in question cost thousands, not hundreds of dollars.

Secondly, as I remember it, the toilet seat was for an aircraft and had to be specifically designed to fit in a space and was VERY custom. They only needed about 10 of them, so between the design work, the prototyping, etc., when divided by the 10 needed, came to thousands per seat. It wasn’t like they could go to Home Depot and put a $19.95 seat in the aircraft.

Similar with the hammer. It was a specific hammer for a specific aircraft repair. Custom made. You couldn’t get one from Sears.


25 posted on 03/01/2013 8:10:45 AM PST by Crusher138 ("Then conquer we must, for our cause it is just")
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To: SkyPilot

“The Dept of Defense must take a 13% cut alone in this fiscal year.”

C’mon. Do we really still need 50,000 troops in Germany?


26 posted on 03/01/2013 8:28:53 AM PST by privatedrive
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To: napscoordinator
....I get 1,096.00 every two weeks....After April, I will get 876.80 every two weeks. That is REALITY!!!!! So much for your ridiculous example.

How is this paid. From who? IS it military retirement or active duty pay? If so the Sequestration law forbids cuts in pay or retirement benfits. See here

If you're a civil servant...well your employer pays you according to how much value he places on your service. For too damn long the Federal Government has been handing out goodies to it's employees at taxpayer expense. Goodies that many, many hard working tax payers...who perform functions more central to the health of our economy than any civil servant...can't afford for themselves. The country is broke and tax payers are fed up. It's time to cut federal spending. Period. Many, many of us in the private sector have seen our take home pays diminish every year since 2008.

27 posted on 03/01/2013 9:12:25 AM PST by pgkdan ( "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Crusher138
Secondly, as I remember it, the toilet seat was for an aircraft and had to be specifically designed to fit in a space and was VERY custom. They only needed about 10 of them, so between the design work, the prototyping, etc., when divided by the 10 needed, came to thousands per seat. It wasn’t like they could go to Home Depot and put a $19.95 seat in the aircraft.

Bull. 10 toilet seats could have been machined out of plastic...a polyolefin or polyamide or polyoxymethylene for hundreds of dollars. It would have taken a student draftsman 10 minutes to design and draw it up for machining. It's a toilet seat fer cryin' out loud!

I sell to the governemnt and the military. I almost got fired when I went off on procurement officer at Norfolk Naval Shipyard about 10 years ago when she called and told to send her $2500 worth of fiscal year end material and gave me a contract number. I told her I didn't know what "fiscal year end material' was and she told me to send anything I wanted as long as it cost exactly $2500! This shit happens ALL the time.

28 posted on 03/01/2013 9:19:31 AM PST by pgkdan ( "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Crusher138

Some of it was really stupid like the coffee pot that was supposed to withstand a crash.

I agree that there is a lot of waste in the DOD. I can’t really talk about any other agencies. Cutting personnel hours will not solve these issues. There need to be a comprehensive reform process to address waste and duplication of efforts.

DOD is still too specialized when it comes to jobs. They have combined some career fields but there are still tons that can be combined and/or eliminated.


29 posted on 03/01/2013 9:38:49 AM PST by USAF80
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To: dhs12345

“However, I remember the $100 toilet seat and $200 hammer.”

I always cringe when people bring these examples up since they create a gross misunderstanding.

The toilet seat and hammer were not the same things you can go out and buy at Home Depot. They were items that had to be specially designed and manufactured to fit particular military design requirements.

Of course the military buys cheaper off the shelf stuff when it fits the requirements and milspecs but sometimes they need special design items like perhaps a toilet seat that is non-standard or a hammer that is actually custom made to do a specific job that a regular hammer cannot do. Imagine if you needed these things and they had to be specially designed and built in very limited quantities....yes the cost becomes very high per piece. It is the same way in the private sector..sometimes specialized tools and equipment are unbelievable expensive.

The toilet seat and hammer story is constantly trudged out like the military way overpaid for a seat in the mens room and a hammer to knock a couple two by fours together. In reality these were special order items that were needed when off the shelf items could not fill the requirements.


30 posted on 03/01/2013 12:00:20 PM PST by XRdsRev (New Jersey - Crossroads of the American Revolution)
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To: pgkdan

“Bull. 10 toilet seats could have been machined out of plastic...a polyolefin or polyamide or polyoxymethylene for hundreds of dollars. It would have taken a student draftsman 10 minutes to design and draw it up for machining. It’s a toilet seat fer cryin’ out loud!”

OK who would make those toilet seats ? Who would do the required drawings and at what cost to the government....NO CONTRACTOR WORKS FOR FREE. How long would it take to get them on contract and would that contract have to go out to competetive bid ? Would the losing bidder challenge ?? Is whoever making the toilet seats an approved contractor who can actually do work for the DOD ? If the toilet seats fail who is responsible for replacing them ? How much would the contractor charge to set up the tooling to turn out only a few of these toilet seats ??

For good or bad, there are many considerations that go into procurement decisions. Some of them seem stupid initially but they make sense when you look at the bigger picture.


31 posted on 03/01/2013 12:10:50 PM PST by XRdsRev (New Jersey - Crossroads of the American Revolution)
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To: XRdsRev
Dude. I do this for a living! Those seats should have cost no more than $100 each! They could be delivered in 3-4 weeks...complete and no losing competitor would bother to challenge a lost $1000.00 bid!

Geez...people like you think every damned thging done for the government has to 100 extra layers of complexity added to it just because it's 'for the government'! Big friggin'deal. There's not a single successful business in this country that would ever do business the way the governemnt does.

32 posted on 03/01/2013 12:25:28 PM PST by pgkdan ( "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Crusher138
Lol. Thanks.

I guess the question is why does everything have to be custom and so expensive. Why can't it be cost effective.

Answer: because it doesn't have to be.

33 posted on 03/01/2013 12:33:47 PM PST by dhs12345
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To: XRdsRev

Whenever we the taxpayers ask why things are so expensive, we are told, you don’t understand and stop asking questions. It is too complicated for us to explain to you.

That is why we have a huge debt. The foxes are watching the henhouse.


34 posted on 03/01/2013 12:51:07 PM PST by dhs12345
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To: pgkdan

“Dude. I do this for a living!”

Yeah Dude, I do it for a living also...every day... and if you think awarding a taxpayer funded contract is as simple as you say, then you are either the smartest guy in the world or you are full of BS.

Based on my experience I have to go with the latter option.


35 posted on 03/01/2013 1:45:23 PM PST by XRdsRev (New Jersey - Crossroads of the American Revolution)
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To: dhs12345

I am not saying don’t ask questions...you just don’t like the answer.

Everyone is rightfully upset about a waste of taxpayer money and that waste does exist and needs to be gotten rid of. My issue is with people who seem to think that building a warship is as simple as remodeling their bathroom.

When you are spending taxpayer money on Government contracts, there are a whole host of issues, regulations and roadblocks that need to be taken into account. You can’t just pull out cash, make something happen and hope for the best. Advanced weapon systems are complicated...way more so than most people can imagine. The configuration and interoperability issues even on simple systems are enough to drive a person nuts. Sometimes decisions are made that do not make sense uness you have the full backstory of what, why and when.


36 posted on 03/01/2013 1:54:28 PM PST by XRdsRev (New Jersey - Crossroads of the American Revolution)
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To: napscoordinator

So much for your ridiculous example
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Now that sounds like a normal response from a typical liberal - if you can’t say something constructive, ATTACK.

In my ‘ridiculous example’, is it better to ‘short’ your staff of 50 $2000 ea or just let go a couple of people go?
Naturally if you are not to be let go, ‘It isn’t fair’ BUT if you were on the to go list, the 8,000 dollar raise would be welcomed.

Apparently you are ‘unaware’ of what a ‘working example’ is.
I am sorry, but I am not privy to (nor is it any of my business) what your personal situation is, down to the penny.
Is yours an ACTUAL loss or is it projected from what Chicken Little has been spreading?

If someone says if you have 6 apples in your hand and you give someone 4 how many do you have left, A proper response could be “6 apples wouldn’t fit in my hand” but it has little to do with showing someone 6-4= 2.

The ‘point’ in general being when dealing in trillions 50 billion equally spread out through all departments is not all that bad.

I would imagine that if we ‘knocked off’ paid holidays for a bit it would be a tremendous saving.

If you can afford to ‘furlough’ people 1 day a week or month for several weeks or months, are ALL those people really necessary?

Of course you will have the moaners and groaners that can’t handle the excessive workload because someone was furloughed that day.

Remember they used to say ‘NON essential personnel’ need not report tomorrow, people would come out of the woodwork and even off sick leave to show up for work LEST someone figured non essential meant they were, in fact, not essential.


37 posted on 03/01/2013 2:01:05 PM PST by xrmusn (6/98 "It is virtually impossible to clean the pond as long as the pigs are still crapping in it")
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To: XRdsRev

Sounds like someone trying to justify ripping off the government, read that as taxpayers, to me. I have been selling Norfolk Naval Shipyard and numerous other DOD facilities for over 20 years. And yes...their paperwork and specifications can be cumbersome. It will be easier to repeal obamacare than it is to change or revise an NSM. But that does not justify the navy’s overpaying for a $100 toilet seat. I have sailors from Special Boat details in Little Creek coming into my shop monthly with improvement ideas on parts they use and sketches for parts they’ll find useful that are quoted and sold to command Pcard carriers on the spot. Don’t tell me it can’t be done!


38 posted on 03/01/2013 2:01:26 PM PST by pgkdan ( "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson)
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To: pgkdan

I hate the contract process but I have been around long enough to know that most of it actually saves the taxpayer money and protects them. I have seen poorly thought out contracts come back and bite the taxpayer in the butt on more than one occassion.

I would certainly hope that the personnel coming in and suggesting changes are authorized to do so. if not then they often can cause alot of trouble and damage down the road. Many a good piece of equipment has been ruined by someone out in the field implementing their own “good ideas” and “improvements” without considering configuration, interoperability, maintenance and sustainment issues. That is why we have engineers.


39 posted on 03/01/2013 2:47:42 PM PST by XRdsRev (New Jersey - Crossroads of the American Revolution)
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To: xrmusn

If you can afford to ‘furlough’ people 1 day a week or month for several weeks or months, are ALL those people really necessary?

I don’t know yet but we will find out. I don’t mind losing 20 percent of my pay. I just wish everyone was giving up something. It is again us vs them. The reason I am so low on my pay is because I just retired from the military and was hired as a veteran. A good amount of the federal government in DOD is prior military folks. Sure you have some that never served but a good many are Iraq and Afghanistan war vets and they are hired. I am not giving you a sob story just a little reality. Again if they would cut 20 percent on welfare and food stamps and unemployment, I would not complain a minute.


40 posted on 03/01/2013 7:32:23 PM PST by napscoordinator
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To: napscoordinator

I am not giving you a sob story just a little reality. Again if they would cut 20 percent on welfare and food stamps and unemployment, I would not complain a minute.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = =
I am sorry, but actually I am NOT trying to ‘bust your b@ll$’.
That is point I was trying to make - the cuts.
OBama runs around the country (ON OUR DIME) and is implying that EACH organization will have a Draconian Cut.
We know that isn’t true BUT no one will ‘listen’ to us. And he is going around stirring up the mob.
No matter what the ‘final cut’ is be it 20 dollars or 20 million dollars, if a hurricane/tornado/blizzard etc sneaks in it will because us “Evil R’s” forced all these people out of work.
I think ‘we’ got our nose under the tent will this “Woodward” debacle - PEOPLE will listen to him, if for nothing else, the LIBS have been making him look like a hero and kept him on a pedestal. With ‘their’ check being a little short at the beginning of the year and any cuts coming up at least the WORKING CLASS will be spreading the word. The Leach Class will see nothing but we know TSWHTF if their FREE cell phones start drying up, EBT cards have a problem etc...

Did your USN retirement pay start at discharge or do you have to wait?- I know they tried to mess with that a few years back...using the old ‘trick’ I worked at the Pentagon for DOD and did the same work as the soldiers and sailors around me and they get their retirement at 20 YRS and I have to wait till 62 or 65. It isn’t fair.
Then with virtually NO Military in the Fed etc ‘we’ don’t get any backing and not many stand up and say HEY that Marine was getting shot at on a continuing basis and the only problem you had was your bus being late or no parking spot. NO GDit, you DIDN’T do the SAME job...but if WE don’t say it, no one will.

I wish you the best and I honestly wasn’t/aren’t trying to bust your gonads....


41 posted on 03/01/2013 8:07:11 PM PST by xrmusn (6/98 "It is virtually impossible to clean the pond as long as the pigs are still crapping in it")
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To: pgkdan

As a people, we have grown weak, and refuse to see what is obvious. We will overcome this profligacy or it will overcome us. I think the latter. It is a slow-motion trainwreck that did not have to happen. Liberal shortsightedness coupled with selfishness and a lack of devotion to the people and the Constitution has brought this ruin. I fear there is no escaping what has to come. Having forgotten self-evident Truths and God we are left to ourselves to escape the ruin, and there will be no escaping ourselves.


42 posted on 03/01/2013 8:34:05 PM PST by Texas Songwriter (THA)
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To: XRdsRev
Important point: we can't afford it any more.

We need to seriously rethink how we have been running the business.

I guess the irony is that defense and aerospace industry can play a part in spurring economic growth. Much like it did during WWII and innovations such as the Internet and ICs.

43 posted on 03/02/2013 6:56:59 AM PST by dhs12345
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To: napscoordinator

“Go to community college, learn a trade.”

Remember that flippant little gem from President Bush? Of course not, it didn’t apply to you. That was the advice offered to the private sector unemployed as a result of trade policy and offshoring.

So, get hopping. It’s pretty cheap. You’ve got some free time.


44 posted on 03/02/2013 7:16:14 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: dhs12345

“Important point: we can’t afford it any more.”

On that point we can agree.

The United States has to come to a decision regarding defense. If it wants to remain a world superpower then it is going to have to spend alot of money on defense and will have to cut heavier in other places. The capabilities of our adversaries are constantly improving and it costs money for us to stay ahead. Many of the weapon systems we are designing today aren’t for tomorrow...they are for five-ten years from now when the dynamic of the physical and technological battlefields will be much different. That having been said, cutting defense isn’t an all or nothing proposition. There is some waste and useless redundancy that needs to be trimmed. However, cutting engineers, logisticians, depot maintainers, supply management and other support personnel isn’t a very smart way of doing things in my opinion.

If the United States is comfortable with decline into being just “another country” with little international influence (other than economic) thus allowing China to become the primary world superpower, then defense cuts are a good way to trim expenses.

It is a decision that we have to come to grips with.


45 posted on 03/02/2013 7:55:40 AM PST by XRdsRev (New Jersey - Crossroads of the American Revolution)
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To: xrmusn

“Remember they used to say ‘NON essential personnel’ need not report tomorrow, people would come out of the woodwork and even off sick leave to show up for work LEST someone figured non essential meant they were, in fact, not essential.”

I think people have misunderstanding of what the DOD considers “essential” and non-essential” positions.

Essential positions generally are those that are required for physical security and operations of a facility or mission.

Non-essential is everyone else, no matter what their job is.

For instance a depot maintainer (the guy or girl who actually repairs the military equipment at depots so it can be returned to use) is usually considered non-essential. Are they important to the mission of DOD ???? Heck yea they are. If they don’t work, equipment doesn’t get repaired. Some in the public however think that because they are non-essential, they aren’t really important. Essential and non-essential designations can really be misleading if you don’t know how the categories are broken out.


46 posted on 03/02/2013 8:10:14 AM PST by XRdsRev (New Jersey - Crossroads of the American Revolution)
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To: XRdsRev
Agreed. Like any “business” we have to prioritize and that means cutting back for many programs.

The US will have economic collapse before the tough decisions are made. Too many promises have been made to the masses. A brand new promise — Obamacare. Once Obamacare gets established, it will be impossible to get rid of it. And it will be another slush fund like social security.

Unfortunately, many Americans don't see the benefits of a strong defense. American’s memories are too short and we have already forgotten 9/11. Defense will be the first to be cut.

47 posted on 03/02/2013 8:29:32 AM PST by dhs12345
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