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Viruses With Immune System Found; Indicates They Are Living Creatures
Science World Report ^ | Feb 28, 2013 01:21 PM EST | Mark Hoffman

Posted on 03/01/2013 8:51:09 PM PST by Olog-hai

Astonishingly, a virus that exclusively attacks the cholera bacteria was caught having stolen the functional immune system of bacteria—and is even using it against its bacterial host. A study published this week in the journal Nature provides the first evidence that this type of virus, a bacteriophage (“phage” for short), can acquire a wholly functional and adaptive immune system, something that was thought to be a too complex task for the very basic and “dumb” virus.

The phage used the stolen immune system to disable—and thus defeat—the cholera bacteria’s defense system against phages. Therefore, the phage can kill the cholera bacteria and multiply to produce more phage offspring, which can then kill more cholera bacteria. The study has dramatic implications for phage therapy, which is the use of phages to treat bacterial diseases. Developing phage therapy is particularly important because some bacteria, called superbugs, are resistant to most or all current antibiotics.

“The study lends credence to the controversial idea that viruses are living creatures, and bolsters the possibility of using phage therapy to treat bacterial infections, especially those that are resistant to antibiotic treatment,” said Camilli, professor of Molecular Biology & Microbiology at Tufts University School of Medicine. …

(Excerpt) Read more at scienceworldreport.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Chit/Chat; Health/Medicine; Science
KEYWORDS: bacteria; bacteriophage; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; immunesystem; phage; virus

1 posted on 03/01/2013 8:51:19 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

They’ll be voting Democrat before you know it.


2 posted on 03/01/2013 8:53:21 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: Olog-hai; Pharmboy; AdmSmith; martin_fierro

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Olog-hai.

Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


3 posted on 03/01/2013 8:58:46 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: Olog-hai

Oh boy...another way to design bio-weapons!


4 posted on 03/01/2013 9:02:52 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: Olog-hai

Maybe one day we will find out that viruses and bacteria are the ‘intelligent’ creatures, and the rest of us are just food.


5 posted on 03/01/2013 9:03:52 PM PST by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: smoothsailing
They’ll be voting Democrat before you know it.

Especially if their primitive immune systems make them immune to common sense, logic, patriotism, and God.

6 posted on 03/01/2013 9:17:41 PM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: Olog-hai

Less alive than a sunflower, more alive than a brick - Stanley Prusiner


7 posted on 03/01/2013 9:17:49 PM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: UCANSEE2
We fat all creatures else to feed us
And we fat ourselves for maggots.
Your fat king and your lean beggar
Are but variable service.
Two dishes, but for one table.
That's the end.

- Hamlet ( from memory! )
8 posted on 03/01/2013 9:19:26 PM PST by dr_lew
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To: smoothsailing

If they don’t feed on the Dems first . . .


9 posted on 03/01/2013 9:19:35 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

I knew that there was a controversy about whether viruses are life forms or not but if not living beings what the heck would they be?


10 posted on 03/01/2013 9:56:43 PM PST by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: Olog-hai

ALIENS.


11 posted on 03/01/2013 10:10:10 PM PST by Dryman (Define Natural Born Citizen)
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To: TigersEye

I remain in the camp that viruses aren’t alive. They don’t eat or metabolize at all, they don’t reproduce, and they do nothing if there aren’t other living things around for them to subvert. They can only trick other living things into making more copies of themselves. Being able to passively defeat an immune system changes nothing. To me, they aren’t living beings, they’re loophole-like pathological special cases of replication gone wrong.


12 posted on 03/01/2013 10:37:52 PM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: Dryman

Aye. So saith Giorgio Tsoukalos.


13 posted on 03/01/2013 10:38:03 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: coloradan

The categories “living organism” and “not a living organism” do not exist in nature.

They are artificial constructs we create due to the overwhelming human compulsion to put things into categories as a way of mentally dealing with them.

IOW, the map (human representation) is not the territory (reality).

So whether a virus is a living organism or not is dependent entirely on the definition you choose to use for “living organism.”


14 posted on 03/01/2013 10:42:34 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan

If I could rate posts, I’d give yours an A+.


15 posted on 03/01/2013 10:46:26 PM PST by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: coloradan

Hmmm. Interesting way to look at it. There is no doubt they are very strange things. Yet they do mutate into new types don’t they? I am thinking of the new strains of flu viruses and their like.


16 posted on 03/01/2013 11:01:59 PM PST by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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They’ll be able to vote Democrat, as long as you don’t call them a fetus. Because a fetus isn’t a life form. Puppies and viro-phages, sure. Humans, not so much.


17 posted on 03/02/2013 1:15:11 AM PST by JFoobar
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To: TigersEye

Yes, flu viruses mutate their protein coat, which (temporarily) defeats the immune response that is geared to a particular type of protein. But what is described in this article is a more significant alteration, picking up a whole new capability.


18 posted on 03/02/2013 6:02:00 AM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: Sherman Logan

I don’t disagree with you at all, which is why I began my post “I remain in the camp” rather than “Viruses aren’t alive.” Then again, any category that can be spoken of is just a human construct too, nobody would be talking about anything if we weren’t here. Nevertheless, categories are useful constructs which is why we make them.

I presented reasons to reject viruses as being alive, with which others are free to argue.


19 posted on 03/02/2013 6:14:16 AM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: coloradan

Don’t they always tell us the flu shot can’t make us sick because it is a “dead” virus?


20 posted on 03/02/2013 6:15:32 AM PST by csmusaret (I will give Obama credit for one thing- he is living proof that familiarity breeds contempt.)
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To: Olog-hai

It sounds like PETA should be out there protesting all flu shots. Further it is our DUTY to cough in their face when we have it and they should like it.


21 posted on 03/02/2013 6:29:37 AM PST by Clay Moore ("In politics, stupidity is not a handicap." Napoleon Bonaparte)
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To: Olog-hai

And many of them work in Washington DC.


22 posted on 03/02/2013 6:38:58 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: csmusaret

To their credit they are also called “deactivated” viruses. The idea is to expose people to the protein coats, so they can build up immunity to those, but have the “Replicate a whole bunch of ME!!!!” DNA or RNA instructions destroyed. But if some of them aren’t destroyed, then you get the flu. Even if they are destroyed, the immune response to the proteins might make you somewhat sick. But if the DNA parts they aren’t destroyed, and you do get sick, that doesn’t make them “alive” - at least by my definition. They still don’t eat, they don’t poop, they don’t metabolize, they don’t reproduce, and their number never increases unless and until they manage to infect some other living thing, which then is subverted into churning out copies of them, instead of doing whatever they were supposed to be doing. A virus is like a sheet of paper that says “URGENT! Copy me, and give the copies to your co-workers to also copy!” that is by the copy machine. If someone just follows instructions they are given, they will set aside what they are doing and will just churn out and distribute those copies, because that’s what they were “instructed” (by the virus) to do. Come to think of it it’s like the “If you send this email to five of your friends, you will get lucky but if you don’t, bad luck will befall you.” Such emails actually require cognitive action on the part of the recipient, as opposed to regular email viruses that act only within the operating system (and indeed which often attempt to conceal themselves from the user). Without the minds of the users, the “send this email to five of your friends” viruses wouldn’t propagate.


23 posted on 03/02/2013 6:47:46 AM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: coloradan

If they don’t reproduce where do they come from , and why can’t we eradicate all of them?


24 posted on 03/02/2013 6:53:30 AM PST by csmusaret (I will give Obama credit for one thing- he is living proof that familiarity breeds contempt.)
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To: csmusaret

They cause other things to make copies of them. As for eradicating all of them, it’s simple: Just comb every square nanometer of the Earth, and destroy them all. So long as a single copy remains, it might infect one creature or another, and make billions and trillions of copies again. Good luck finding all of them! (Don’t forget to search all the seawater, too.)


25 posted on 03/02/2013 8:26:52 AM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: coloradan

My apologies if I seemed to be disputing your post.

I intended to agree and expand on it, not disagree.


26 posted on 03/02/2013 9:52:06 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: coloradan

Thanks. They are very strange, like robots almost. In spite of having to steal RNA they are rather complex little malware units.


27 posted on 03/02/2013 12:06:28 PM PST by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: SunkenCiv; neverdem

Fascinating report. Thanks, SC...


28 posted on 03/02/2013 1:38:18 PM PST by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: TigersEye

Treating infections with phages predates anti biotics by many years.
promisin promising treatment against dru resistance back.


29 posted on 03/02/2013 2:56:15 PM PST by Don@VB (Power Corrupts)
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To: Don@VB

It will be a great day when the mysteries of viruses and cancers are unlocked and I think that will happen. There is no telling what else will be discovered about health and life itself by following those paths. It will certainly ease a great deal of suffering.


30 posted on 03/02/2013 3:40:20 PM PST by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: Pharmboy

Thanks a lot!


31 posted on 03/02/2013 6:09:55 PM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: Olog-hai; Pharmboy; SunkenCiv
A bacteriophage encodes its own CRISPR/Cas adaptive response to evade host innate immunity
32 posted on 03/02/2013 8:16:29 PM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem

Thanks neverdem.


33 posted on 03/02/2013 10:45:56 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: Sherman Logan
Are you channeling Alfred Korzybski?
34 posted on 03/03/2013 12:46:23 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
I don't think so. I'd never heard of the guy till I just googled him.

It looks like there are a lot worse guys I could channel, though he appears to operate at a level of sophistication several orders of magnitude higher than I do.

I appreciate knowing where the phrase "the map is not the territory" comes from. Thanks.

My only point was that the categories we create to organize the world are just that, artificial categories. Nature itself doesn't necessarily correspond to them.

35 posted on 03/03/2013 1:34:41 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan

I agree and just thought it interesting you used the phrase. We organize our universe to suit our thoughts as we’re part of the natural order our categories are not unnatural, but they change and are more nuanced as new information and facts come forward.

The map can never be the territory, just an approximation.


36 posted on 03/03/2013 1:46:42 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

An example of our mania for creating categories and then insisting that everything fit into them is the present debate over how terrorists should be treated.

The categories are criminal and prisoner of war, and 99% of the argument focuses around which of these two groups terrorists should be slotted into.

Almost nobody bothers to even consider the possibility that dealing with terrorists effectively might require creating a new category.

Another example is the (mostly over now) argument about the Iraq War. Liberals claimed it was a Vietnam quagmire, conservatives, or at least neo-cons, saw it as WWII if appeasement hadn’t been implemented. Almost nobody was willing to consider that it wasn’t either of these.


37 posted on 03/03/2013 2:21:08 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan

Isn’t that the nature of human inquiry? We categorize things from the familiar forward. It’s one of the exciting things about the English language American’s speak. It’s dynamic enough and flexible enough to change.


38 posted on 03/03/2013 2:54:39 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: SunkenCiv

If you click through to the article there is a link to a nifty photo taken by Cassini showing Venus between a couple of Saturn’s rings.


39 posted on 03/04/2013 5:05:38 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker

Thanks ct!


40 posted on 03/05/2013 4:07:42 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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