Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Research Sheds Light On Ancient Egyptian Port And Ship Graveyard
Past Horizons ^ | Tuesday, March 26, 2013 | unattributed

Posted on 03/29/2013 9:49:41 AM PDT by SunkenCiv

New research into Thonis-Heracleion, a sunken port-city that served as the gateway to Egypt in the first millennium BC, was examined at a recent international conference at the University of Oxford. The port city, situated 6.5 kilometres off today’s coastline, was one of the biggest commercial hubs in the Mediterranean before the founding of Alexandria...

This obligatory port of entry, known as ‘Thonis’ by the Egyptians and ‘Heracleion’ by the Greeks, was where seagoing ships are thought to have unloaded their cargoes to have them assessed by temple officials and taxes extracted before transferring them to Egyptian ships that went upriver. In the ports of the city, divers and researchers are currently examining 64 Egyptian ships, dating between the eighth and second centuries BC, many of which appear to have been deliberately sunk. Researchers say the ships were found beautifully preserved, in the mud of the sea-bed. With 700 examples of different types of ancient anchor, the researchers believe this represents the largest nautical collection from the ancient world...

“One of the key questions is why several ship graveyards were created about one mile from the mouth of the River Nile. Ship 43 appears to be part of a large cluster of at least ten other vessels in a large ship graveyard,” explained Dr Robinson. “This might not have been simple abandonment, but a means of blocking enemy ships from gaining entrance to the port-city. Seductive as this interpretation is, however, we must also consider whether these boats were sunk simply to use them for land reclamation purposes.”

(Excerpt) Read more at pasthorizonspr.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: alexandria; egypt; franckgoddio; godsgravesglyphs; heracleion; thonis; thonisheracleion
The stele of Thonis-Heracleion (1.90m) had been ordered by Pharaoh Nectanebo I (378-362 BC) and is almost identical to the stele of Naukratis in the Egyptian Museum of Cairo. The place where it was supposed to be erected is explicitly mentioned: Thonis-Heracleion. ©Franck Goddio/Hilti Foundation, photo: Christoph Gerigk

Research Sheds Light On Ancient Egyptian Port And Ship Graveyard

1 posted on 03/29/2013 9:49:41 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Hi, just a test ping to see if the doubling/tripling problem has been solved.

Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


2 posted on 03/29/2013 9:50:38 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

“The port city, situated 6.5 kilometres off today’s coastline”

So has the sea risen or did the port sink? That stele is in remarkable condition. Good post.


3 posted on 03/29/2013 9:54:17 AM PDT by Parley Baer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

This got me thinking about if they ever found chariots in the Red Sea. Appears they found wheels, if true.


4 posted on 03/29/2013 10:04:55 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Thank you. It’s great to see one of these again!


5 posted on 03/29/2013 10:08:18 AM PDT by Pollster1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ilovesarah2012

Yes, they found them, along with pillars on both sides of the crossing to commemorate the event: anchorstone.com


6 posted on 03/29/2013 10:09:57 AM PDT by Salvavida (The restoration of the U.S.A. starts with filling the pews at every Bible-believing church.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Salvavida

Thanks.


7 posted on 03/29/2013 10:12:13 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Now this really IS a sunken civ...great post...thanks!


8 posted on 03/29/2013 12:14:21 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

bttt


9 posted on 03/29/2013 12:21:11 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

-——One of the key questions-——

After the inspection by the insurers and the vessel was declared to be un seaworthy, the vessels were placed in the grave yard for salvage of hardware and other items of use.


10 posted on 03/29/2013 12:21:39 PM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 .....The fairest Deduction to be reduced is the Standard Deduction)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Wow, awesome stele. You’ve got to love soft mud!


11 posted on 03/29/2013 12:28:52 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Wow, seeing the GGG logo again is like the rediscovery of an ancient civilization. It fills me with awe and delight.


12 posted on 03/29/2013 12:52:14 PM PDT by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk only to me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Parley Baer

It’s not known for sure, but the best guess is, a big quake in the Middle Ages (the one that knocked down the Pharos) caused the soil under some of those coastal towns slide north, taking the whole works into the drink.


13 posted on 03/29/2013 4:41:42 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: wildbill; Pharmboy

Thanks! Maybe the pings can resume.


14 posted on 03/29/2013 4:42:05 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: ilovesarah2012

This port is in the Mediterranean, not the Red Sea. And no, wheels have not been found. One of the crockumentary makers had a brass wheel made to take some footage of a chariot wheel on the bottom; there’s also some modern machinery from 19th- and 20- century wrecks and things. No chariots.


15 posted on 03/29/2013 4:42:47 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: bert

That many ships, I would guess that they got swamped by the backsplash after the liquefaction slide of the towns. The dating of the vessels will tell one way or the other.


16 posted on 03/29/2013 4:45:33 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: 1010RD

It’s in great shape!


17 posted on 03/29/2013 4:45:49 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Pollster1; 240B; 75thOVI; Adder; albertp; asgardshill; At the Window; bitt; blu; BradyLS; ...

My pleasure, maybe it’s time to resume the pings. Not sure I’ll resume the Digest, but might in an abbreviated different form.


18 posted on 03/29/2013 4:46:56 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

I saw a site that showed what looked like wheels.


19 posted on 03/29/2013 4:50:45 PM PDT by ilovesarah2012
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: ilovesarah2012

As I said, there’s some machinery from modern (100-150 years) wrecks. Wood submerged in shallow seawater, even if buried, would not survive 3450 years, and yet a web search will turn up all kinds of claims that even the axles are intact.


20 posted on 03/29/2013 5:38:24 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Yet fossils survive for millions of years?


21 posted on 03/29/2013 5:45:47 PM PDT by ilovesarah2012
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: ilovesarah2012

I don’t believe you understand.

Many fossils are rock formations. Sedimentary stone forms around a portion of an animal’s remains, which is usually a bone. The bone often doesn’t last, but the rock does.

Bones can also become petrified, essentially becoming stone themselves, although the most common form of petrified organic matter is petrified wood. Bones can be preserved without petrification too. Teeth are more common. But even feathers and skin fragments have been found without any petrification. All these results are completely dependent on local conditions, such as the amounts and types of minerals present in the ground water.

A wooden ship laying on the bottom of shallow ocean water, however, tends to get eaten. There are too many worms and bacteria living in seawater that find wood to be very tasty.


22 posted on 03/29/2013 9:50:26 PM PDT by Bryan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: ilovesarah2012

Yes, of course fossils survive millions (and billions) of years, they’re rocks. The organic materials were substituted with minerals, which is why they’re generally incomplete and rare.l.

This thread isn’t about the Exodus, or the Sea of Passage, so knock it off.


23 posted on 03/31/2013 6:15:39 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

And Happy Easter to you, too.


24 posted on 03/31/2013 6:30:49 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
Yes, of course fossils survive millions (and billions) of years, they’re rocks. The organic materials were substituted with minerals, which is why they’re generally incomplete and rare.l.

There has never been a fossil in sea water that shows evidence of a wooden origin?

This thread isn’t about the Exodus, or the Sea of Passage, so knock it off.

Wow, why so uppity? What is it about biblical archaeology that makes you so rude?

25 posted on 03/31/2013 6:32:48 AM PDT by Partisan Gunslinger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: ilovesarah2012
2Yet fossils survive for millions of years?

The Med is sea water, the Gulf of Aqaba is sea water. You have a legitimate question.

26 posted on 03/31/2013 6:37:54 AM PDT by Partisan Gunslinger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Partisan Gunslinger

Thank you.


27 posted on 03/31/2013 6:41:14 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: ilovesarah2012; SunkenCiv; Salvavida
I have done a bit of research on the objects photographed underwater and billed as "chariot wheels". Notice that they are never photographed (as a legitimate archaeological research photo would be) with a scale or any other object that would give one a sense of their actual size.

Many of them have gracefully-curved spokes and/or are "faired" (with spoke ends flared out and blended into the wheel and hub). AFAIK, no ancient wheelwright ever did either of those things; it would simply be too much work for no functional improvement.

Now, if you want to see the exact same things -- out of the water -- go to Google Images and search for "valve wheel". You will be greeted with a page of pictures of wheels that look exactly like those depicted underwater -- complete with curved spokes and "faired" spokes.

    

Note that many of the similar valve wheels have square or hexagonal holes in the center. It is common for the worker to carry a wheel with him from valve to valve, slip the wheel over the square or hex valve stem, adjust the valve, remove the wheel -- and carry it with him to the next valve.

Unsurprisingly, valve wheels occasionally get dropped overboard or are washed or roll overboard when dropped.

Conclusion: those "chariot wheels" are merely modern valve wheels that fell overboard from tanker ships.

~~~~~~~~

Don't feel bad -- those "sunken chariot wheels" had me wondering at first, too... '-)

TXnMA
Texas Archaeological Steward

28 posted on 04/01/2013 8:23:23 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias... "Barack": Allah's current ally...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: TXnMA

Thanks. I’ll do a little more research when I have time. I would think they would probably be buried by now anyway, but you never know.


29 posted on 04/01/2013 9:54:41 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: TXnMA

I never considered that, thank you.


30 posted on 04/01/2013 2:21:21 PM PDT by Salvavida (The restoration of the U.S.A. starts with filling the pews at every Bible-believing church.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Nice to see a GGG ping. Wow, that stele is in fantastic condition.


31 posted on 04/01/2013 3:31:00 PM PDT by colorado tanker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Thank you for reviving this list.


32 posted on 04/02/2013 10:35:18 AM PDT by Thud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
Sunken Civ, Let me add my thanks to you for reviving the list!

If I weren't

A) swamped with a minimum of seven ongoing archaeological projects at any given time

and

B) over 3/4 century old...

I'd volunteer to help with it -- but -- I might be more hindrance than help... '-)

33 posted on 04/02/2013 11:38:20 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias... "Barack": Allah's current ally...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Looks like it’s fine. Thank you for the pings!


34 posted on 04/02/2013 4:21:19 PM PDT by KGeorge
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
The stele of Thonis-Heracleion

All the news that's fit to print?

35 posted on 04/02/2013 4:46:16 PM PDT by Rocky (Obama is pure evil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Partisan Gunslinger

Actually you are the intruder in this and you are the one being rude. Furthermore, what you said about me is false, iow a lie, making you a liar.


36 posted on 04/02/2013 8:03:52 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Rocky

It’s interesting that the rulers put up basically permanent proclamations, considering 90 or 95 percent of the population was illiterate, but of course, having it posted in public like that meant that no one could plead ignorance of the law, or claim the law hadn’t gone into effect yet. :’)


37 posted on 04/02/2013 8:06:30 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: colorado tanker; Thud; TXnMA; KGeorge

Thanks all for the kind remarks about the GGG list revival. Here’s hoping that it assists in some way with the FReepathon, and isn’t just a drag on the bandwidth, i.e. the tent where we’re holding this revival. :’)


38 posted on 04/02/2013 8:14:47 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Looks like Y’All are back with a bullet- Fantastic!


39 posted on 04/03/2013 8:13:09 PM PDT by KGeorge
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
Actually you are the intruder in this and you are the one being rude. Furthermore, what you said about me is false, iow a lie, making you a liar.

Intruder? lol I didn't know you had your own exclusive club.

40 posted on 04/07/2013 8:06:39 PM PDT by Partisan Gunslinger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Partisan Gunslinger

That was in response to your ridiculous lie, and yes, you intruded, because I didn’t direct any part of the foregoing conversation to you.


41 posted on 04/07/2013 8:16:45 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson