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The engineer in me want this one to work as it's not exotic and not dependent on the government for development.

Just a guy, his idea, some parts & cash and a few students.

Nice.

1 posted on 04/05/2013 10:30:55 AM PDT by Freeport
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To: Freeport

In St. George, Utah, they don’t use furnaces to heat their homes, they use heat pumps. They work very well, even when the temps drop down into “zero” territory.


2 posted on 04/05/2013 10:33:50 AM PDT by redhead (NO GROUND TO THE DEVIL! Use Weaponized Prayer)
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To: Freeport
I burn old tires to boil water.

/johnny

3 posted on 04/05/2013 10:35:30 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Freeport

So the guy refrigerates his incoming water and sets the exhaust heat into the feed side of his hot water heater. No big deal.


4 posted on 04/05/2013 10:40:20 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: Freeport

He’d get better results if he tried to do the same thing with the waste water from shower, dishwasher and clothes washer drains instead of the incoming water.

However, I have my doubts that the efficiency numbers work out, or enough to justify the cost of the equipment.


5 posted on 04/05/2013 10:42:47 AM PDT by kidd
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To: Freeport

If the cold water is already at 70 F, what colder water source would you transfer the heat to and why? Just fill the water heater with the 70 degree water. o.0 I must be missing something.


6 posted on 04/05/2013 10:47:19 AM PDT by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: Freeport

9 posted on 04/05/2013 10:50:00 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (People are idiots.)
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To: Freeport

Extracting latent heat from one tank of water and transferring it to another is going to have a cost above and beyond the reduced heating expense in the hot water tank benefitting from the transfer. If you want colder tap water you might get it for “free,” cost of the system notwithstanding, imho.


11 posted on 04/05/2013 10:56:20 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Freeport
But if the now colder cold water must be mixed with more hot water to be usable for showering or clothes washing (the two biggest users of hot water) are you really gaining anything? Maybe you're using the original temperature water for the house and just flushing out the chilled water.

I know that I have to use warm water for washing because cold water (as defined for washing clothes) is around 85°F while the cold water from my pipes is below 50°F in the winter and may be up to 60°F in the summer. That's not washing or rinsing anything well. If I get a new washing machine that only has a cold rinse, I'll have to premix hot and cold water before it goes into the cold washer intake.

14 posted on 04/05/2013 11:05:14 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Choose one: the yellow and black flag of the Tea Party or the white flag of the Republican Party.)
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To: Freeport

Tankless water heaters work pretty well and save money. In three years, mine has just about paid for itself and the upgrade in electrical wiring. The wiring cost more than the heater.


15 posted on 04/05/2013 11:07:52 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Freeport
I'm a building engineer and this seems like it would only be good for clients that consistently use lots of cold water. Lots of toilet flushing, lawn sprinklers, pools, cold laundry, etc.

Most residential users mix hot and cold to about 90-100 degrees. That is still 30-50 degrees of overall heating. I suppose it can be offset by toilets but those only use 1-1.5 gallons today.

Only the warmest places get 70 degree water out of the ground. That is far from typical in the USA. I did a project at the equator and it was 74 degrees from the ground.

There ARE already heat-pump water heaters that take heat from the air. I think those are far better. Especially if it sits inside a hot mechanical room.

17 posted on 04/05/2013 11:13:31 AM PDT by varyouga
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To: Freeport
Just a guy, his idea, some parts & cash and a few students.

I could heat my water with a few students (in shifts):


18 posted on 04/05/2013 11:16:56 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (LBJ declared war on poverty and lost. Barack Obama declared war on prosperity and won. /csmusaret)
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To: Freeport

Meh.....

Ground source heat pumps have been around for over 100 years. They are hands over more efficient than burning fossil fuels or air to air heat pumps. Their drawback.....huge first costs.....

After a couple of test projects in the Reno area, the State of Nevada determined that they reached payback for the high initial (construction) costs in 3-5 years. Nevada now mandates usage of these type systems in many School and public buildings....

Radiant in floor heating systems are often designed with water to water ground source heat pumps to good effect......
nothing really new here as far as I can see......


19 posted on 04/05/2013 11:17:50 AM PDT by Forty-Niner (The barely bare berry bear formerly known as Ursus Arctos Horribilis.)
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To: Freeport

I’ve found I can make money with just a cheap computer and an old color printer.


20 posted on 04/05/2013 11:19:28 AM PDT by DaxtonBrown (http://www.futurnamics.com/reid.php)
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To: Freeport

Heat pump type water heaters fail miserably in real life use; it might be a function of the number of duty cycles but I think they’re just too complex for something that needs to be 100% reliable ,It shouldn’t matter if it’s a heat pump pulling heat from air like your A/C or it’s a water to water system as this guy wants to build.

I’ve had 2 tankless electric heaters fail over a 5 year period BIG 3*60 AMP ones ,, with 3 chambers theres a lot of possible failure points and don’t try to reason with the wife when she has to take a cold shower...

What works in any climate is/are GAS tankless water heaters ... my Aunts home in Brooklyn still has their original tankless water heater from 1926 ,, just updated to eliminate the pilot light... amazingly simple , just a copper coil about 6” in diameter and 2 feet in length(THICK COPPER) inside a tube that narrows to become the chimney/exhaust.

The 1970’s/1980’s solution was to capture waste heat from the A/C pressure/liquid side with a sealed heat exchanger box... WORKED GREAT and improved A/C efficiency also... don’t know why it has fallen out of favor.

Best solution now in warm climates is passive solar heat with electric backup.


21 posted on 04/05/2013 11:30:21 AM PDT by Neidermeyer (I used to be disgusted , now I try to be amused.)
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To: Freeport

I would think that the parts of the world which have 70 degree ground water would also have plenty of sunlight and ambient air temps.

A solar hot water heater, or even just heating the pipes to ambient air temp would probably be a far better primary solution in these places.

Perhaps the groundwater heat pump could be used in the “cold” season in those areas to some effect...


22 posted on 04/05/2013 11:31:18 AM PDT by chrisser (Senseless legislation does nothing to solve senseless violence.)
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To: Freeport

Improving hot water heating efficiency ... with cold water

Why is he heating hot water?


29 posted on 04/05/2013 12:09:44 PM PDT by csmusaret (America is more divided today , not because of the problems we face but because of Obama's solutions)
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To: Freeport

To preheat water, solar energy is the cheapest.

Best for non-freezing climbs, the pipes can be laid right below the roof. You’ll get 150F water.


33 posted on 04/05/2013 12:40:05 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: FReepers
Look! It's Spam!!!


Click The Spam And Donate

Donate Anyway

34 posted on 04/05/2013 12:55:03 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (My faith and politics cannot be separated)
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To: Freeport
funding from a grant

Damn near any proposal containing the word "green" can get funding these days.

36 posted on 04/05/2013 1:24:20 PM PDT by MosesKnows
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To: Freeport
I used a ground water heat pump to heat my house for a number of years. It was a maintenance nightmare. I finally pitched it when the main freon-to-water heat exchanger began to leak freon. It would have been extremely costly to replace.

It was great while it worked, if the maintenance costs were ignored. I also just dumped the cold water. There was a convenient lake nearby. The deer liked the open water. BTW, the well water was a consistent 50 degree year round. Ground water is always at the average annual temperature (or warmer).

41 posted on 04/05/2013 7:41:45 PM PDT by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
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