Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Great DHS Ammunition Stockpile Myth
http://www.breitbart.com ^ | 4/4/13 | Tom Stilson

Posted on 04/05/2013 11:45:36 AM PDT by Lucky9teen



There are dozens of articles hyping government purchases of ammunition over the last nine months. After spending weeks researching this topic, this is a collection of commonly held myths that are based more on panic than fact. 

With the recent release of a letter from the Department of Homeland Security to Senator Coburn, the numbers we calculated independently seem to corroborate the narrative coming from DHS. The concerns surrounding DHS stockpiling ammunition are nothing but more fear-mongering and largely unwarranted. For once, here are the facts to set the record straight:

MYTH: DHS purchased 750 million rounds of several different types of ammunition in August 2012.

FACT: The DHS contract never stated 750 million rounds at any time. It is a five year contract with a maximum purchase of 70 million rounds over the life of the contract. Military Times recently addressed this issue as well.

(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Conspiracy; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: ammunition; banglist; dhs; dhsammo; guncontrol; guns; secondamendment; sourcetitlenoturl
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051 next last
Good to know...and believable, since Breitbart is reporting it.
1 posted on 04/05/2013 11:45:36 AM PDT by Lucky9teen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Lucky9teen

Maybe so but the laws of supply and demand are working quite well, and there is very little affordable ammunition available, nor is there much for affordable reloading commponants available either. Have you looked for AR bare receivers, or AR parts. Sure glad I built mine two years ago.


2 posted on 04/05/2013 11:50:53 AM PDT by wita
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wita

commponants - prime example of no spell check.


3 posted on 04/05/2013 11:52:13 AM PDT by wita
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: wita

I’ve been looking since January and I can say prices and availability are becoming more favorable.


4 posted on 04/05/2013 11:54:12 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: wita

This may be true so why is there no ammunition to be found? Go to any online firearm/amunition resource and they all say out of stock on ammo. One site, Georgia Arms, says their production backlog is running 2-9 months out.


5 posted on 04/05/2013 11:55:27 AM PDT by rhubarbk (BHO = FUBAR)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Lucky9teen

So, ammo shortages are induced by a panicked public?


6 posted on 04/05/2013 11:55:30 AM PDT by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (PRISON AT BENGHAZI?????)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rhubarbk

There is plenty of ammo at Gunbroker.com.


7 posted on 04/05/2013 11:56:54 AM PDT by Sawdring
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Lucky9teen

Really glad Breitbart is the source here debunking these ammo conspiracy theories. The hardcore conspiracy folks are going to have a hard time letting go though, so I am betting this will have to be posted hundreds of times.


8 posted on 04/05/2013 11:57:04 AM PDT by Longbow1969
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lucky9teen
I predict a glut of ammo in about eighteen months.
9 posted on 04/05/2013 11:57:21 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("Somebody has to be courageous enough to stand up to the bullies." --Dr. Ben Carson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lucky9teen
It's still much more than DHS needs for normal situations and routine circumstances. Why, unless trying to provoke people are they still taking away Second Amendment rights not privileges? They push it way too far, expecting a backlash?

Only to pounce upon us with carefully disguised shooting incidents. If Lanza killed those kids then Fast & Furious was a local initiative. I don't buy it. The kid collected cheap Japanese swords, pellet guns and decorative spears. He owned a Starter's Pistol for Pete's sake?

10 posted on 04/05/2013 12:01:14 PM PDT by STD (One day closer to street justice)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; wku man; SLB; ...
From Breitbart. Read the comments below the article.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

11 posted on 04/05/2013 12:05:37 PM PDT by Joe Brower (The "American People" are no longer capable of self-governance.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lucky9teen

Does the government buy .22 rounds?

THESE seem in most shortage. I can’t find them anywhere.


12 posted on 04/05/2013 12:11:05 PM PDT by ZULU (See: http://gatesofvienna.net/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FReepers
'Weapons of war have no place on our streets,' US President Barack Obama said on February 4, 2013

REALLY?

Click The Pic To Donate

Support FR, Donate Monthly If You Can

13 posted on 04/05/2013 12:13:18 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (My faith and politics cannot be separated)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America

Basically.

Look, it isn’t just ammo. It isn’t just AR’s and AR components.

It’s EVERYTHING.

I make rifles from mil-surp actions and new custom barrels. Want to know how long I’m waiting for a barrel these days? About 3X what I used to wait in 2010. There are some barrel makers (Krieger) who are out to 27+ weeks for a barrel - that used to be available in four to six weeks.

That’s for a barrel that you need a gunsmith to:

1. Cut to length.
2. Chamber.
3. Thread to the action.
4. Crown.
5 (sometimes) turn to the desired OD and profile.

That’s like three to four hours of work on a lathe (and possibly 20 minutes more on a mill for Springfields and Winchesters) - obviously not something that some amateur is going to do on his/her own, like cramming AR parts together into a useable gun.

The only guns that are readily available are Mosin’s, and even then the spam-can ammo has disappeared.

People are buying almost anything and everything that launches a bullet.


14 posted on 04/05/2013 12:13:36 PM PDT by NVDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: wita

Phone calls to two gun shops about the availability of black powder received responses saying some black powder was available for immdeiate purchasee, but it was in short supply tto the dealers.


15 posted on 04/05/2013 12:14:41 PM PDT by WhiskeyX (The answer is very simple and easy to understand economics. The U.S. Treasury is printing vast)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: demshateGod

Yep. Finally found .223 this am at .50 a round...the price I’ve been waiting for. Two weeks ago I couldn’t find any under .90. Things are loosening up as the 1000’s of new Obama-inspired gun owners are finally getting their supplies laid in.


16 posted on 04/05/2013 12:16:34 PM PDT by ez (Laws are for little people. Criminals, politicians, police, and David Gregory are exempt.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Sawdring

GunBroker is where all of the walmart employees are selling their ammo that was purchased before it ever hit the shelves.

LLS


17 posted on 04/05/2013 12:16:50 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Lucky9teen

Tin foil cannot be defeated!

18 posted on 04/05/2013 12:18:06 PM PDT by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ZULU

Lots of folks (like me) bought new .22 rifles since December and needed to fill their gun cabinets. .22 is becoming available but the price is still very high. ($90-150 for a brick)


19 posted on 04/05/2013 12:18:14 PM PDT by ez (Laws are for little people. Criminals, politicians, police, and David Gregory are exempt.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Lucky9teen
One of the commenters asked” Then what about the MRAPs and I would add the No Hesitation targets with pregnant white women, old white people and white kids DHS is using for target practice. This is all of a piece, in my humble opinion. If the government is using HP ammunition for target practice which is more than twice as expensive as ball ammunition, then they could save enough by switching to open the White House to tours again.
20 posted on 04/05/2013 12:18:51 PM PDT by ricmc2175
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ZULU

http://www.surplusammo.com/22-lr-aguila-high-velocity-38-grain-hollow-point-500-round-brick/

http://www.surplusammo.com/22-lr-blazer-high-velocity-40-grain-solid-point-500-round-brick/


21 posted on 04/05/2013 12:19:52 PM PDT by ez (Laws are for little people. Criminals, politicians, police, and David Gregory are exempt.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: ez

http://www.surplusammo.com/22-lr-cci-standard-velocity-target-40-grain-round-nose-0032-100-rounds/

http://www.surplusammo.com/22-lr-cci-mini-mag-36-grain-copper-plated-hollow-point-100-rounds/


22 posted on 04/05/2013 12:21:17 PM PDT by ez (Laws are for little people. Criminals, politicians, police, and David Gregory are exempt.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Lucky9teen

There is still a shortage, and where has all the Milsurplus gone?


23 posted on 04/05/2013 12:23:26 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lucky9teen

Than How Come I get E-Mails from my Local Gun Store Advertising a box of 50 Remington 22 LR for "only" 6.99!

That is CRAZY Expensive.

Then I (reluctantly) stopped by our Super Walmart the other day and they had Nothing! Literally Nothing!


24 posted on 04/05/2013 12:27:09 PM PDT by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.-Sarah Palin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NVDave

BTW, Thanks Alberto Gonzales (W’s AG) for the barrel ban. /s


25 posted on 04/05/2013 12:27:37 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Lucky9teen
FACT: The DHS contract never stated 750 million rounds at any time. It is a five year contract with a maximum purchase of 70 million rounds over the life of the contract. Military Times recently addressed this issue as well.

FACT: All agencies for the federal government do a 5 year budget forecast. They could end up buying 750 million more rounds of assorted calibers over that period. It's still could be boatload of ammo.

It is a five year contract with a maximum purchase of 70 million rounds over the life of the contract.

Actually Breitbart, the minimum buy guarantee over the next five years of the contract from 10/01/2012 to 9/30/2017:

Verbatim from the contract:

"When the government requires CLTA [Commercial Leading Training Ammunition] covered by this contract, delivery order(s) will be issued: delivery instructions will be listed therein. Prices include all delivery cost and Federal Excise Tax (FET). The minimum guarantee that the Government will order is 1,000 rounds per contract per year. Unit price is per 1,000 rounds. "

The gov has the option of buying that Titanic load of ammo per the contract.

26 posted on 04/05/2013 12:29:01 PM PDT by Red Steel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ez

Those prices are insane.


27 posted on 04/05/2013 12:31:31 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: rhubarbk
This may be true so why is there no ammunition to be found? Go to any online firearm/amunition resource and they all say out of stock on ammo. One site, Georgia Arms, says their production backlog is running 2-9 months out.

IMHO, Because we are our own worst enemy. As soon as Obama got reelected ammo and guns started flying off the shelves. People are buying in blind panic.

The same thing happened in '08. Ammo shortages were not quite as bad then, you could always find .22 rimfire. However, 5.56 and .308 was next to impossible to find for the longest time. This time around not only do you have panic buyers but profiteers who are buying anything and everything and reselling at inflated prices. Even blackpowder supplies have nearly vanished from the store shelves.

What's happening now with the ammo is what happens to food and bottled water here in Florida when a major hurricane threatens us. The only difference is this threat will be with us for quite a while. People see this and they're not letting up on the panic buying.

28 posted on 04/05/2013 12:37:21 PM PDT by Jed Eckert (Wolverines!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: mylife

Definitely. I will not buy any .22 until I can get a brick for under $35 or a box of premium (Mini Mags, Stingers etc)for under $20.


29 posted on 04/05/2013 12:37:22 PM PDT by ez (Laws are for little people. Criminals, politicians, police, and David Gregory are exempt.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Lucky9teen

That article makes more sense than anything else I’ve seen (of the “conspiracy articles”). The “problem” that is being caused is because of the average ammunition purchaser stockpiling and hoarding ammunition - far beyond what has been normally done in the past.

They’ve listened to the conspiracy nuts and are now causing their own problem ... LOL ...


30 posted on 04/05/2013 12:40:53 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: KC_Lion

My local Walmart was depleted of all popular calibers (9, 40, 38, 357, 223, 308, and 22 of *any* flavor). The only shot shells in the store were 18 boxes of 3” and 3-1/2” turkey loads.

I asked the guy at the counter and he said that shipments are smaller and there is a group of guys that all show up whenever they are stocking and buy anything popular that hits the shelf.

The problem locally is hoarders and folks reselling, plain and simple. I’m guessing when the current anti-gun season blows over, ammo prices will return to normal and all the folks with panic-priced stockpiles are going to be doing some *expensive* shooting.


31 posted on 04/05/2013 12:41:18 PM PDT by jaydee770
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: ez

Amen.


32 posted on 04/05/2013 12:44:40 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: jaydee770
I sure hope prices return to normal.

But since the Ammo Companies got a taste for what people are willing to pay for them I doubt they will.

Plus you have to throw Ubama's scamming into the mix and what he will do.

33 posted on 04/05/2013 12:44:51 PM PDT by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.-Sarah Palin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Red Steel
Found this on the net... DHS spokesman:

“One solicitation under Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) has a contract ceiling of UP TO 750 million rounds of training ammunition, a maximum quantity allowing FLETC flexibility over the next 5 years for training of over 90 federal agencies. A separate 5-year department-wide contract allows the purchase of UP TO 450 million rounds of duty ammunition for our law enforcement officers and agents. This contract is intended to be used by all DHS components, except the U.S. Coast Guard, who uses U.S. Department of Defense ammo contracts. This contract is part of the Department’s strategic sourcing efforts to combine multiple previous contracts in order to leverage the purchasing power of the entire Department to efficiently procure equipment and supplies at significantly lower costs.”

Someone has to watch all the munition contracts being awarded, and add up the actual ammo deliveries over a period of time to get the real picture how much the government is getting.

34 posted on 04/05/2013 12:48:00 PM PDT by Red Steel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler
That article makes more sense than anything else I’ve seen (of the “conspiracy articles”). The “problem” that is being caused is because of the average ammunition purchaser stockpiling and hoarding ammunition - far beyond what has been normally done in the past.

It makes perfect sense, which means the Alex Jones crowd will continue to believe in conspiracy theories instead.

35 posted on 04/05/2013 12:59:53 PM PDT by Longbow1969
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: DJ MacWoW

36 posted on 04/05/2013 1:02:22 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: jaydee770

This is precisely what is happening and I refuse to feed the beast. What should have been readily available at brick & mortor stores is being bought up by a small group of folks in communities and then resold online. The ebay “dealers” can sit on their stacks of inventory for eternity. I’m not buying it.


37 posted on 04/05/2013 1:03:36 PM PDT by MachIV
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: ricmc2175

38 posted on 04/05/2013 1:03:45 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee

That’s excellent!


39 posted on 04/05/2013 1:07:52 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (My faith and politics cannot be separated)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Lucky9teen
OK, so the DHS is buying enough ammo to fight the Iraq war for 23 years 'to save money' and then somehow the border patrol has no ammo??

Me thinks the story stinks.

40 posted on 04/05/2013 1:20:49 PM PDT by SwankyC (Democrats and Republicans agree, govt coercion is OK if it fits your idea of whats OK)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee
My God. What happened to our country?
41 posted on 04/05/2013 1:32:40 PM PDT by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Lucky9teen

No matter what, I still think it is a grand idea for states to create a “minimum regulatory regime” in their state law, for gun and ammunition manufacturers to set up shop in their state, on condition that they sell specifically for in-state use.

A big incentive for this would be for those states to also have a contract preference for their state and county to buy from these in-state manufacturers.


42 posted on 04/05/2013 1:35:50 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sawdring

Thanks!


43 posted on 04/05/2013 1:51:24 PM PDT by rhubarbk (BHO = FUBAR)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Lucky9teen

PDF Info from DHS to Sen. Coburn


44 posted on 04/05/2013 1:52:30 PM PDT by deport
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Red Steel

Of course the government has the option of buing that amount. That is what is called the contract ceiling. Government contracts are often written with very high ceilings but that doesn’t mean there is any intention of actually buying that amount. It simply is a number for that specific contract. The actual orders are always what is important not an almost meaningless contract ceiling quantity.


45 posted on 04/05/2013 1:58:16 PM PDT by XRdsRev (New Jersey - Crossroads of the American Revolution)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye
It can if your the Master!


46 posted on 04/05/2013 2:02:51 PM PDT by Sawdring
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: LibLieSlayer

Buy low, sell high.


47 posted on 04/05/2013 2:03:45 PM PDT by Sawdring
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: XRdsRev
The actual orders are always what is important not an almost meaningless contract ceiling quantity.

What I said in post.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3004562/posts?page=34#34

48 posted on 04/05/2013 2:04:57 PM PDT by Red Steel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

http://joeforamerica.com/2013/04/stop-buying-guns-ammo/

Stop Buying Guns & Ammo!!!

Seriously, stop it. I went to a gun show this past weekend in Michigan and almost shat myself when I saw the price that people were selling ammunition. $65 for a crappy box of 525 rounds of Federal 22lr and a dollar a shot for basic 223 and 308???!!! That box of 22lr was $14.99 not even 6 months ago. Ok, I have to come clean. That was me selling the ammo for that price and I would have felt bad, but the growing wad of money in my pocket eased my feelings of remorse. What can I say, I was prepared for this day and they weren’t. I did notice that the $2,000+ AR-15s of December 2012, now aren’t selling at even $1,100. At least that has died down a little. People are starting to realize that without ammo, an AR is just a really expensive conversation piece/club.

Here’s the math on why not to buy right now. These price hikes are caused 100% by panic and insane demand. If we all stop buying, the prices will stabilize and go down. No current law in Congress (that is actively being pushed) would restrict the purchase of ammunition. About all they may get (and I pray they don’t) are enhanced background checks. Now it is time for me to go ADHD on you and get off track for a minute and address the background check issue. In short, these background checks wouldn’t do a damn thing to make anyone safer. However, they will make the politicians who vote for the bill feel like they are really dealing with the problem of “firearm’s violence” in America. It doesn’t matter that no background check would have stopped Aurora or Sandy Hook from happening. But, let’s not let the facts get in the way of an asinine law. Seriously, what would this new background check form look like if this bill were to pass:

-Have you spent time on anti-depressants in the past year, or are you currently on medication that could make you snap and go postal?

-Do you suffer from PTSD?

-Are you a member of a militia, or the NRA?

-Do you have more than 500 rounds of ammunition in your house?

-Are you really really super pissed at someone right now, I mean SUPER PISSED?

-Do you have thoughts of strangling kittens or harming small, woodland creatures?

-Seriously, are you crazy? We really need to know so that this FFL dealer does not sell this gun to you and then you go and use it to harm others.

Ok, now that the enhanced background check theory has been debunked ever so masterfully by Mr. Ags, on to my original rant of not buying guns and ammo. Just stop it. Relax. Let Walmart, and your online retailers, restock their shelves and then get back to shooting and buying ammo at a normal pace. Just because you bought an AR-15 does not mean you need to purchase an entire pallet of 223. This too shall pass.


49 posted on 04/05/2013 2:48:59 PM PDT by Petruchio (Democrats are like Slinkies... Not good for anything, but it's fun pushing 'em down the stairs.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: demshateGod

I was at Wal Mart this morning, I asked about 22LR and the clerk laughed and said they had a shipment last night and when the Gun Cash Register opened at 8:00 that they were out by 8:30.


50 posted on 04/05/2013 4:28:22 PM PDT by The Working Man
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson