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Do you agree with Rubio that the "immigration" plan isn't amnesty?
4/15/2013 | Laissez-Faire Capitalist

Posted on 04/15/2013 7:04:37 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist

This "immigration bill" (why not call it what it is a so-called attempt to deal with ILLEGAL immigration) not just an immigration plan - why do they leave the WORD illegal out - supposedly has some key components:

1.) Penalties. 2.) Back to the end of the line. 3.) Illegals cannot get gov't handouts (food stamps, etc). I thought that for all these years they weren't eligible, weren't receiving them an/or they never did in the first place... 4.) An E-Verify system.

Big Problem though...where is the simultaneously offered strong border control component(s), with many more border control agents, strong National Guard assistance, more fences in channel areas that illegals flood into far more often and in larger numbers than in other areas along the border?

Where is that at?

RINO Rubio...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Miscellaneous; Society
KEYWORDS: 113th; aliens; amnesty; amnestytoday; amnestytomoro; congress; democrats; elections; gangofeight; grahamnesty; itisamnesty; itisstillamnesty; marcorubio; mclame; rubio; shamnesty; teaparty

1 posted on 04/15/2013 7:04:37 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; All

What say you?


2 posted on 04/15/2013 7:05:00 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I may not agree with this plan and all of the details, but Rubio is no RINO. Please, I am sick and tired of people who throw out the term RINO when they don’t agree with some one.

Susan Collins is a RINO, not Rubio.


3 posted on 04/15/2013 7:07:50 AM PDT by Perdogg (Sen Ted Cruz, Sen Mike Lee, and Sen Rand Paul are my adoptive Senators)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Rubio wants AMNESTY for the 30,000,000 illegal aliens


4 posted on 04/15/2013 7:09:04 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Liz; AuntB; La Lydia; sickoflibs

PING


5 posted on 04/15/2013 7:10:05 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

The Ministry of Border Security reminds us that “Open Borders are Secure Borders”


6 posted on 04/15/2013 7:10:46 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I say he’s selling the country down the river.


7 posted on 04/15/2013 7:12:49 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Tennessee Nana; Liz; AuntB; La Lydia
RE :”Do you agree with Rubio that the “immigration” plan isn't amnesty?”

My tagline gives the answer.
Any law that allows them to stay here and get citizenship (voting ) after illegally living here is a huge jump ahead in line to those others respecting our laws.

All that Rubio 10 year crap doesnt impress me, remove citizenship(voting) and Dems bail.

8 posted on 04/15/2013 7:15:13 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: Perdogg; All

Please.

He was a Tea Party favorite, but if he isn’t lurching more and more to the GOP-e than who isn’t?

Just more big-tent bull. Big tent always leads to the GOP-e taking over and conservatives/Tea Partiers get a few bones tossed to them every now and then.


9 posted on 04/15/2013 7:15:28 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I don’t trust Rubio.


10 posted on 04/15/2013 7:16:00 AM PDT by carriage_hill (The most insidious power the news media has, is the power to ignore.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I’ll beleive the enforcement parts of the proposal will be enforced right after current immigration laws are enforced.


11 posted on 04/15/2013 7:17:29 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Marx smelled bad & lived with his parents most his life.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

You keep throwing out terms like GOP-e, but you haven’t said what policies he is in favor of to make him a RINO.

I am skeptical of this plan, but this doesn’t make him a RINO. He voted against cloture in the gun debate, he is opposed to 0bamacare, and he is in favor of border security.

He is also in favor of less government, and he is pro-life.

I am also tired of people who anointed themselves the one who determines who is conservative and who isn’t.


12 posted on 04/15/2013 7:20:59 AM PDT by Perdogg (Sen Ted Cruz, Sen Mike Lee, and Sen Rand Paul are my adoptive Senators)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Why not call it what it is a so-called attempt to deal with ILLEGAL immigration.
And the show goes on.


13 posted on 04/15/2013 7:24:36 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: Perdogg

and he is pro-life.
_________________________________

yeah well thats got several different meanings too...


14 posted on 04/15/2013 7:25:37 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
How about somebody shutting the damn gate!!

Where in Rubio's plan is the much-promised border fence?

Where are the tranquillizer and net-throwing drones?

15 posted on 04/15/2013 7:26:56 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: Perdogg

but this doesn’t make him a RINO
_________________________________________

Supporting his illegal aliens for AMNESTY doesnt make him pro-America...

or Conservative...


16 posted on 04/15/2013 7:27:55 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana
Rubio wants AMNESTY for the 30,000,000 illegal aliens

And those 30 million aren't even the worst of the problem. The worst part is the billion or so south of the border who will have observed this and the previous efforts at comprehensive immigration 'reform' and sussed out that they too should get here quick to cash in on the next amnesty. Instead of erecting disincentives to illegally enter, Rubio et. al. are further motivating millions more to try their luck crossing the border, turning the US into the biggest piñata of all time.

17 posted on 04/15/2013 7:29:00 AM PDT by Paine in the Neck (Socialism consumes everything)
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To: Perdogg

There are several meanings for “pro-life” and him supporting illegal aliens for amnesty hardly makes him a Tea partier.

I am tired of those who are enablers of the GOP-e.


18 posted on 04/15/2013 7:34:11 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

When the penalties specified by law are waived for a large group of people, that’s an amnesty. Rubio is playing the same word games - telling LIES - with the American people as W and a long list of others. To pretend that substituting small fines and granting a path to citizenship in lieu of deportation somehow makes it not an amnesty is deliberate deceit and outright lying,, not to mention insulting to the American people.

Rubio continues to play the same role for Amnesty as Bart Stupach played for Obamacare. He’s pretending to stand up for a critical issue (border security) while moving things toward the ultimate leftist goal of amnesty for illegal aliens.


19 posted on 04/15/2013 7:36:15 AM PDT by Will88
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To: Perdogg

BTW, read #14, 15, 16 and 19 on this thread and then say to all here at FR that Rubio isn’t a RINO.


20 posted on 04/15/2013 7:37:53 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

No


21 posted on 04/15/2013 7:40:21 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Perdogg

The Thought Police will be along shortly. Dissent is not permitted, you know.


22 posted on 04/15/2013 7:43:37 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
LOL. Of course it is amnesty. It is no different than the 1986 amnesty bill, which was called an amnesty.

Any legislation that legalizes the status of those who broke our laws by entering our country illegally and allows them to stay and work here, the object of their crime, is amnesty. We must not only prevent the Democrats and some moderate Republicans from hijacking the meaning of the word amnesty, but the public must be made aware about the true impact of an amnesty. The Heritage Foundation concluded that the cost of amnesty would be $2.6 trillion just for increased entitlement program costs. And the number of additional LEGAL immigrants who would join those who were the recipients of amnesty through chain migration, i.e., family reunification, would approach 70 million over a 20-year period, assuming there are only 12 million illegal aliens. We cannot assimilate such numbers. An amnesty would destroy the United States of America with the stroke of a pen.

Words have meanings. The Democrats and the mainstream media have hijacked the language surrounding the immigration issue to the point that we had Michael Chertoff, the Secretary of Homeland Security and our nation’s top immigration official at the time, testifying before Congress using the term “undocumented workers” to describe illegal aliens. John McCain and Barack Obama studiously avoided the term “amnesty” to describe their comprehensive immigration reform plans and despite the evidence, baldly declared that it was not an amnesty. Instead, they used such euphemisms as “getting to the back of the line,” “an earned path to citizenship,” and “coming out of the shadows.” The Democrats and pro-amnesty crowd know full well that the American people are against amnesty, hence the avoidance of the “A” word. Conservatives need to develop their own immigration lexicon that cuts through this Orwellian use of language.

23 posted on 04/15/2013 7:45:51 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; AuntB

RUBIO is NOT a RINO, He is a GEORGE SOROS puppet!!

See, Who is Cesar Conda?
So a former George Soros rag editor is now Rubio’s Chief of Staff.

Behind the scenes of Amnesty..
See, Who is Cesar Conda?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3007546/posts


24 posted on 04/15/2013 7:46:25 AM PDT by chicagolady (Mexican Elite say: EXPORT Poverty Let the American Taxpayer foot the bill !)
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To: Perdogg

See, Who is Cesar Conda?
So a former George Soros rag editor is now Rubio’s Chief of Staff.

Behind the scenes of Amnesty..
See, Who is Cesar Conda?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3007546/posts


25 posted on 04/15/2013 7:46:48 AM PDT by chicagolady (Mexican Elite say: EXPORT Poverty Let the American Taxpayer foot the bill !)
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To: carriage_hill

That’s called WISDOM!


26 posted on 04/15/2013 7:47:47 AM PDT by chicagolady (Mexican Elite say: EXPORT Poverty Let the American Taxpayer foot the bill !)
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To: Paine in the Neck

I disagree about the worst part.

For me the worst part is seeing all my fellow Americans without work, now having to compete with 30,000 illegal aliens for jobs.


27 posted on 04/15/2013 7:49:41 AM PDT by chicagolady (Mexican Elite say: EXPORT Poverty Let the American Taxpayer foot the bill !)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Rubio’s plan is a convoluted mess. The same old amnesty with a few more twists.


28 posted on 04/15/2013 7:53:13 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Perdogg
If Rubio supports amnesty, then he is certainly no conservative. If he is not a RINO then he is a left leaning Rep.

Conferring rights and privileges upon illegal aliens has a corrosive effect on the Rule of Law, the very foundation of our Republic. It is also a slap in the face to legal immigrants who have followed the rules and obeyed the laws. There are over four million intending immigrants waiting their turn overseas to enter the U.S. legally. They have completed all the paperwork, paid the required fees, and had the requisite background checks. Why should the illegal aliens be put at the head of the line and allowed to stay and work here? Where is Rubio's sense of fairness?

And the reality is that many of these self-selected immigrants couldn't even qualify for a tourist visa, let alone an immigrant visa. When you reward something, you get more of it. We had a "one-time" amnesty in 1986. The supporters at the time assured us that there would never be another one. 27 years later we are considering another one. Rubio is either very stupid or he thinks we are. Either way, he should not be considered as Presidential material. We don't need any more tokenism. We need competence.

29 posted on 04/15/2013 7:54:39 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

No. If they are given a legal status and allowed to stay, it is an amnesty.


30 posted on 04/15/2013 7:56:06 AM PDT by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
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To: Perdogg

“I may not agree with this plan and all of the details, but Rubio is no RINO. Please, I am sick and tired of people who throw out the term RINO when they don’t agree with some one.”

What would you call Rubio? A conservative??? Does a conservative hire one of the biggest amnesty pushers who worked for George Soros as his chief of staff and employ SPLC talking points to destroy his opposition to amnesty, INCLUDING Free Republic??

Rubio has always pushed favoring aliens.
What would you call Rubio?

Southern Poverty Law Center Finds Fewer Militias, Hypes Militia Threat Anyway (FR mentioned)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3006724/posts

and
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3006724/posts?page=7#7

The point that seems missed, is that our ‘conservative tea party’ elected legislators, like Rubio with the help of Grover Norquist [& Cesar Conda] is using SPLC talking points against us to pass amnesty!

[snip]At the heart of the attack is the accusation that the leading members of some groups critical of immigration policy were or still are environmentalists and liberals. This attack piggybacks on earlier work by the Southern Poverty Law Center that used some of the same information to accuse those groups of being tied to Neo-Nazi and White Supremacist groups. There’s something rather strange when “conservative sites” not only begin advocating for illegal alien amnesty, but begin repeating the claims that the Center for American Progress, Mother Jones and the Southern Poverty Law Center were making about anti-immigration groups 5-10 years ago. The same Norquist tactics being used to attack the anti-immigration movement can and will be used to attack the Counterjihadist camp.

http://towncriernews.blogspot.com/search?q=Splc

also:Grover vs. ‘the Bitter Enders’(Grover trying to give Rubio political cover)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3006017/posts


31 posted on 04/15/2013 7:57:35 AM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Any plan that does not send them home before applying for entry is amnesty.


32 posted on 04/15/2013 8:01:39 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: Will88

As someone said yesterday, “THEY GET TO STAY - THAT’s AMNESTY!”


33 posted on 04/15/2013 8:02:40 AM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
THE TRUTH ABOUT AMNESTY

Definition: Amnesty, from the same Greek root as "amnesia," forgives past crimes and removes them from the record for future purposes. In the context of immigration, amnesty is commonly defined as granting legal status to a group of individuals unlawfully present in a country. It overlooks the alien's illegal entry and ongoing illegal presence and creates a new legal status that allows the recipient to live and work in the country.

The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986: The textbook example of amnesty. The 1986 law's path to citizenship was not automatic. The legislation stipulated several requirements to receive amnesty, including payment of application fees, acquisition of English-language skills, understanding of American civics, a medical exam, and registration for military service. Individuals convicted of a felony or three misdemeanors were ineligible. No one disputes that this act provided amnesty.

Rubio is proposing an amnesty no matter how much he lies about it. It is essentially the same as the 2007 McCain-Kennedy amnesty bill.

The Secure Borders, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Reform Act of 2007 [aka McCain-Kennedy CIR bill]: This bill resembles the 1986 amnesty in several important ways. Like that law, it would grant amnesty to individuals unlawfully present in the United States. Its provisions prove that its effect would be "amnesty, " which its proponents deny. Specifically,

• Only illegal aliens are eligible. Creates a new "Z" visa exclusively for illegal aliens, granting legal status to those who have willfully violated U.S. laws and denying that benefit to law-abiding aliens who have played by the rules. (Section 601(c)(1))

• Legal status is immediate. Section 1(a) allows probationary Z visas to be issued immediately after enactment. These probationary visas are nearly as good as non-probationary Z visas, giving the alien lawful status, protection from deportation, authorization to work, and the ability to exit and reenter the country with advance permission. (Section 601(h)(1))

• Immigration laws are set aside. Before anyone even applies for a probationary Z visa, the legislation would set aside the immigration laws that currently criminalize the presence of illegal aliens. The bill waives compliance with several laws as a condition for eligibility for the amnesty, including those concerning illegal entry, failure to appear for a removal proceeding, fraud in obtaining documentation to enter the United States, falsely claiming citizenship, violating terms of a student visa, failure to obtain valid immigration documents, unlawful presence for more than one year, and reentry after having been ordered removed. (Section 601(d)(2)(A))

• Eligibility leads to permanent residence. Probationary Z visas could be valid for years, depending on when the government begins issuing non-probationary Z visas (Section 601(h)(4)). The Z visa can be renewed every four years indefinitely (Section 601(k)(2)).

• Amnesty is unlimited. The bill grants legal status to virtually all of the 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens who are in the country today, and there is no cap on the total number of illegal aliens who could receive Z visa status.

34 posted on 04/15/2013 8:04:32 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Rubio may honestly believe that his plan isn't amnesty since it includes provisions for the federal government to levy fines and other penalties for illegal aliens to be held accountable to before gaining citizenship. He may also honestly believe that our borders will somehow be secured to the point of dramatically reducing illegals from streaming in as they have been for decades, BEFORE this plan is fully implemeted. Some people dream of unicorns and rainbows too.

However, Rubio is a politician, so honesty becomes an irrelevant factor in the equation. Even if his intentions are fairy tale pure, I simply:

Have never trusted democrats - Ever.

No longer trust the GOP.

Have no realistic expectation that a protected class of law breaking alien takers of the government dole will magically become rock ribbed conservatives once granted citizenship and will suddenly support and defend the Constitution that has been usurped for their benefit.

Have no confidence in the federal government to enforce a " new and improved" set of immigration laws since they refuse to enforce the existing ones.

So, Rubio and his GOP gang members can blow it out of their fourth point of contact - respectfully, of course....nah, skip that last part. None of these asshats deserve my respect as a conservative.

35 posted on 04/15/2013 8:31:37 AM PDT by TADSLOS (The Event Horizon has come and gone. Buckle up and hang on.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

He always was GOPe. TEA Party people who think he is of like mind have been snookered.


36 posted on 04/15/2013 8:37:13 AM PDT by Waryone (Trust the Lord not your own understanding. Acknowledge Him. He will direct your path.)
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To: Perdogg

Rubio lost any respect I had for him. Cruz is the only one in DC with spine, guts, and gonads, IMO.


37 posted on 04/15/2013 8:42:59 AM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

With the corruptocrats we currently have in the District of Corruption I really fail to see how “What we the people think” has any relevancy in either the GRAND PLAN FOR IMMIGRATION OF GUN CONTROL. We the People are no longer represented. I for one KNOW that Arizona did not send Lettuce McCain to DC to strip away my 2A rights like he did with 1A. In any event we failed to primary him and that was one our worst mistakes - CA liberalism taking over AZ as we speak. Sheriff Joe just won election a few months back and the leftarrds are out collecting petitions to have him recalled. I can no longer live here and am considering TX.


38 posted on 04/15/2013 8:44:43 AM PDT by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: Waryone

“He always was GOPe. TEA Party people who think he is of like mind have been snookered.”

You nailed it, Waryone. The open border/amnesty lobbyists have hijacked the tea party to install their candidates. Cesar Conda was working for Rubio before he was elected to the US Senate. “Though his boss, Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), is a first-term senator, Conda brings more than 25 years of legislative experience to the Senate. Rubio named Conda chief of staff after Conda served as a policy adviser on his 2010 Senate camapign and during Rubio’s Senate transition. Conda served as a member of Rubio’s debate preparation team and helped hire the senator’s new staff.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/cesar-conda/gIQAi3LeKP_topic.html


39 posted on 04/15/2013 8:46:04 AM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I say his next run at office will be as a Dem.


40 posted on 04/15/2013 9:24:22 AM PDT by wiggen (The teacher card. When the racism card just won't work.)
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To: Perdogg
If Ribio isn't a "Susan Collins," yet and I stress yet, it's only because he hasn't been in the Senate long enough!

Florida might just as well saved their time and dollars and elected Charlie Crist for that is what they now have in DC!

Rubio is merely a younger, livelier guy with more hair (barely) than Charlie Crist but it seems like he's about as much a GOPe as he could get.

The big guys in the RNC must have told Rubio that the nomination was his if he only can come out in front on a "few" issues that are pesky problems with the "conservative base" of the party, that need be settled.

Rubio, being the good "team player" that he desires to be, stepped up to run interference for McCain and Grahamnesty!

41 posted on 04/15/2013 9:31:04 AM PDT by zerosix (Native Sunflower)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Do you agree with Rubio that the "immigration" plan isn't amnesty?

Hell no!

Not until I see ironclad failsafe cancellation provision if the Flying Monkeys fail to keep their part of the agreement.
And also never before clear evidence is provided that the border is permanently secure.

42 posted on 04/15/2013 6:59:26 PM PDT by publius911 (Look for the Union label, then buy something else.)
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