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Most Overrated Historic Figure(s)

Posted on 04/20/2013 7:55:55 PM PDT by MNDude

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To: Eddie01

I looked it up and remembered Taurus and yes the early chord sequence is similar

But the spacey meandering before that which sounds like a door opening is straight from Days of Future Passed released 18 months before Taurus

And so it goes.....Artists lift.....and yes Page/Plant shoulda said so

And Spirit is a very important underrated band like the Kinks or Beef


151 posted on 04/21/2013 1:12:45 AM PDT by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: ReformationFan

Colin Powell was a hero on this forum at one time. Much like Ann Coulter, Carl Rove, et al.


152 posted on 04/21/2013 3:51:51 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (_.. ._. .. _. _._ __ ___ ._. . ___ ..._ ._ ._.. _ .. _. .)
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To: Beowulf9

Thanks for the link. I really did enjoy the Woody Allen and William Buckley exchange on one of the other selections offered. That was fun.


153 posted on 04/21/2013 4:11:49 AM PDT by Northern Yankee (Where Liberty dwells, there is my Country. - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: MNDude
That I think are???

HMMMmmm...

Number one has to be:


 
 
 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken...
 Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

154 posted on 04/21/2013 4:12:14 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: MNDude
Excluding any US Presidents in the past century...

Are there REALLY this many folks on FR that evidently CAN'T read???

155 posted on 04/21/2013 4:13:40 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: MNDude
Are there REALLY this many folks on FR that evidently CAN'T read???

Oooops my mistake, as I evidently can't THINK!!!!


But; does past century mean from January 1, 2001 to present?

or...

from January 1, 1901 to January 1, 2001?

or...

from April 20, 1913 to April 20, 2013???

156 posted on 04/21/2013 4:17:56 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: SamAdams76

I’m smiling because you are *explaining* that Lennon was a rock star who played in a band by the name of the Beatles in the 1960s. I think I’m finally getting old. :-D


157 posted on 04/21/2013 4:18:20 AM PDT by freepertoo
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To: chajin
Pythagoras

But without him; you'd STILL be trying to figger out triangles!

158 posted on 04/21/2013 4:19:39 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America

Oh! that nukclear bomb guy in North Korea!!!!

(And his dad; too!)


159 posted on 04/21/2013 4:21:01 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: rlmorel
Actually if you read of MacArtur's leap frog campaign in the Pacific during the Second World War it was quite brilliant.

His occupation of Japan was also masterful in the way he revitalized the country.

I've read much about this man over the years and I dare say he was one of our best generals to be produced in the 20th century.

Really... a good book to read is William Manchester's Amercian Ceasar. A fair account of his life. Also study what he did to the occupation of Japan. He transformed that society completely; and ended his time there with love and affection of a grateful nation.

160 posted on 04/21/2013 4:26:12 AM PDT by Northern Yankee (Where Liberty dwells, there is my Country. - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Elsie

Oh; wait!

Let’s not forget....

CRAP!

I’ve used up my three wishes already.


161 posted on 04/21/2013 4:28:04 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
I've used up my three wishes already.

But I haven't!

You are Number One - you big blowhard!!

--MormonDude(Thank GOD y'all have left all the Osmonds out!)







Sorry, I meant to say HATEFUL blowhard...











162 posted on 04/21/2013 4:30:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Liberty Wins
Little known fact: MacArthur’s soldiers had the fewest casualties of any commander in WWII. His men loved him. Glad you posted that.

Something I've been saying for years.

163 posted on 04/21/2013 4:31:51 AM PDT by Northern Yankee (Where Liberty dwells, there is my Country. - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: MNDude

MLK


164 posted on 04/21/2013 4:33:05 AM PDT by Altura Ct.
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To: MNDude

Katharine Hepburn, the emptiest of empty vessels
Frank Sinatra, a more boring, characterless voice doesn’t exist
Marcel Proust, Please, please just stop.


165 posted on 04/21/2013 4:35:22 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: reaganaut

Elvis opened the door, so to speak.

And we lower flags for them now, too, so I figure they’re eligible.

Others here apparently thought so, too.

SMH.


166 posted on 04/21/2013 4:39:04 AM PDT by treetopsandroofs (Had FDR been GOP, there would have been no World Wars, just "The Great War" and "Roosevelt's Wars".)
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To: wardaddy
Get some caffeine and a couple of aspirin in you, it might make better sense this morning, lol.

I said James Madison, who had his finer points and was not “bad” per se, was overrated due to being acclaimed “Father Of The Bill Of Rights” when in fact George Mason did the actual work and paid a price for his dogged insistence, both personally and historically.

Mason was regarded as one of the greatest legal minds of the Founding era, if not the greatest. Few at the Convention were his equal. He is underrated to the point of being known as "The Forgotten Founder" in some circles.

167 posted on 04/21/2013 4:45:33 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: MNDude

Steven Hawking
Abe Lincoln
Stalin
Jefferson
Napoleon


168 posted on 04/21/2013 5:05:49 AM PDT by Repulican Donkey
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To: chajin

B-B-But I LIKE Pythagoras!

When I teach scales to my music students, I mention him, and when kids say “Who?” I say, “The Triangle Guy”.


169 posted on 04/21/2013 5:31:38 AM PDT by left that other site (Worry is the darkroom that developes negatives.)
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To: MNDude

Since we can’t include any 20th century presidents, my 3 most “Overrated” would be (IMNSHO):

MLK
Che
Mandela

And Now, for the three people who have done the most damage to western civilization I nominate:

Freud
Darwin
Marx (Not Groucho!)


170 posted on 04/21/2013 5:37:49 AM PDT by left that other site (Worry is the darkroom that developes negatives.)
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To: wardaddy

Why should I at least “admit” it? It is my opinion, and I am not afraid of backing it up.


171 posted on 04/21/2013 5:48:07 AM PDT by rlmorel ("We'll drink to good health for them that have it coming." Boss Spearman in Open Range)
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To: USNBandit

Good God! If anything, Christopher Columbus was an amazingly underrated man!

I understand why he would be underrated, since the general impression modern people have of him is a guy who just stumbled across the new world.

He was pretty amazing. I believe he was the first European mariner to actually divine the warning signs of a hurricane and avoid it...all the others to that point had just stumbled into them.

Another story about him that I find funny, yet is a prime example of his resourcefulness, is the time he and his men were in desperate danger of starving, they were nearly out of food, and the natives didn’t want to help him out (because they had previously cheated and stolen from the natives.)

He knew enough about astronomy to know that a lunar eclipse was going to happen, and he timed it with an hourglass and told the natives that God was going to give them a sign at a certain time, and...voila! They gladly gave him the food!

A great book about him is by Samuel Eliot Morison, “Christopher Columbus, Admiral of the Ocean Sea”. Very well written.

(I love this thread...lots of things we can agree and disagree about things without really ripping each other to shreds...not like pure politics!)


172 posted on 04/21/2013 6:03:56 AM PDT by rlmorel ("We'll drink to good health for them that have it coming." Boss Spearman in Open Range)
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To: MNDude

Galileo
DaVinci
Henry Hudson


173 posted on 04/21/2013 6:05:40 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?)
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To: Pelham

Great book! Hornfischer is an excellent writer, I think one of the most entertaining (if you can use that word in reference to his subject) in his style. My favorite is ‘Neptune’s Inferno’. He manages to convey the essence in a way that even someone like Morison (whose work I like, but acknowledge he was an insufferable snot) did not do.


174 posted on 04/21/2013 6:08:52 AM PDT by rlmorel ("We'll drink to good health for them that have it coming." Boss Spearman in Open Range)
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To: stylin19a

+1 for Krugman.


175 posted on 04/21/2013 6:11:41 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?)
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To: wardaddy

47, grew up on Zeppelin - every song every album - after learning the depth and bredth of their plagerism I know longer hold them in high regard. Simple as that. Huge Zappa fan - have majority of catalog. Fan of Spirit, Procol Haram.

Originality is not the benchmark for underrated. No, but it is for overrated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyvLsutfI5M

There are plenty other videos documenting those they ripped off. The beginning of communication breakdown is lifted from Little Richard’s Keep a Knockin’

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcJrExewkYA


176 posted on 04/21/2013 6:12:38 AM PDT by Eddie01 (Liberals lie about everything all the time.)
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To: Northern Yankee

I have read it...don’t misunderstand me.

To be overrated, in my opinion, one does not just have to be a low-life who a lot of people think is pretty good.

I think one can be overrated if he is pretty good and people think he is a military diety.

I appreciate the things he did. He simply was not flawless, and is often treated as if he were.


177 posted on 04/21/2013 6:13:40 AM PDT by rlmorel ("We'll drink to good health for them that have it coming." Boss Spearman in Open Range)
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To: Northern Yankee

And I do think he did a great job in Japan. Many Japanese thought so as well, which says something.


178 posted on 04/21/2013 6:14:44 AM PDT by rlmorel ("We'll drink to good health for them that have it coming." Boss Spearman in Open Range)
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To: max americana

Was Che a person? I thought the definition of Che was 1. term used to describe the worship of communist murderers 2. style of T-Shirt. /sarc


179 posted on 04/21/2013 6:15:50 AM PDT by Eddie01 (Liberals lie about everything all the time.)
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To: rlmorel
Good to hear and read.

MacArthur himself admitted in his life that he was a sinful man, and looked to the Almighty for guidance.

I think too often others get carried away and make caricatures of those men who were historical figures. We merely need to look at the worship status people bestow on the likes of the Kennedys, Clintons, Presley, Beatles, etc. Too often it is the reporting or image making that is in overdrive that blurs the reality of what is.

180 posted on 04/21/2013 6:36:16 AM PDT by Northern Yankee (Where Liberty dwells, there is my Country. - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Northern Yankee; rlmorel

You are forgetting MacArthur’s conduct of the 1941 Phillippines campaign. He should have been court martialed for it.

-He blithely assumed his enemy would not attack until the Spring of 1942.

-He failed to follow prewar plans and stockpile supplies on Bataan and Corrigedor. For that matter he did not move supplies in earnest until the Japanese were almost to Manila!

-His inaction in the hours after learning of Pearl Harbor contributed to the loss of over half his Air Force.

-He truly earned the name “Dougout Doug” by staying on Corrigedor and only visiting Bataan ONCE.

Had MacArthur been hit by a bus in the summer of 1941 and Wainwright been in charge, the Philippine-American forces could have held out longer and done more damage to the Japanese. This would have helped the allies by disrupting the Dutch East Indies and subsequent campaigns.

Don’t get me started on his getting ambushed in Korea by forces he already knew we’re there!


181 posted on 04/21/2013 7:39:59 AM PDT by GreenLanternCorps
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To: crazydad
Also, FDR was not only overated but also one of the biggest traitors in US history. He sold out Eastern Europe to his commie friends. And we paid for 60 years. With Blood of good men, and trillions of dollars. He was a traitor period.

I would tend to disagree.

The probable result of FDR refusing to accomodate the Soviets would most likely have been a hot war in the 1940s rather than a Col War lasting 45 years.

While the Cold War and the subjugation of eastern Europe were Bad Things, they were not necessarily worse than a real World War III fought across the corpse of western Europe.

182 posted on 04/21/2013 8:37:39 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Eddie01
You're Gen X

You just damn them

I might too had I been classic radioed to death my whole life

I came up right as they peaked....I'm 55

Yes they lifted riffs....very few have not

My point was that being original purist doesn't guarantee greatness

I did feel they got stale after HOTH

what you missed is how unique they were for their time....hard rock...bluesy....tolkienish...Cotswalds feeling

I feel lacking with say Supertramp or Styx or Chicago. Like u do Zep

My kids love Zep but they like ACDC better....which to them is same era but to me quite different

I first heard whole lotta love at 12 years old 7th grade....late 1969

No one had ever done anything like it

Yes black blues was one root but they did not create their Rolling Fork sound....um from that area btw.....from thin air and all those Brit white boys sure transformed it way beyond Son....Patton ...Robert ....Broonzy.....Lemon. etc

Its PC today to bash the white boys

Its a matter of perspective

Plenty black bluesmen had electric guitars by the 50s.....only one u can think of who took old blues to true electric heights was Freddy King

The rest just played louder basic blues...and I love Albert King

183 posted on 04/21/2013 9:21:09 AM PDT by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: GreenLanternCorps
Yes... he made some mistakes, but those pale in comparison to his victories.

Read his withdrawl from Bataan to Corregidor. Considering the Homma, the Japanese commander, thought he had MacArthur's army cut off due to a series of pincher moves, MacArhur outfoxed the Japaneses Army that were supreme in numbers and resources.

He wanted to stockpile weapons and munitions for Bataan and Corrigedor but was not given any help from Washington. They assured him that supplies were on their way. They never came.

184 posted on 04/21/2013 9:25:00 AM PDT by Northern Yankee (Where Liberty dwells, there is my Country. - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Eddie01

Stones lifted Richard too

And he and Jerry Lee lifted one another

I like Zappa too as does my 13 year old.....

Very talented

Brillo likely one if few traditional melidies

Wifey finds him Dina mo. Hum vulgar


185 posted on 04/21/2013 10:37:14 AM PDT by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: rlmorel

Cause dismissing Jefferson is stupid and likely politically correct

Though I do not recognize you from south bashing ranks here


186 posted on 04/21/2013 10:40:33 AM PDT by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: MNDude

Reggie Jackson


187 posted on 04/21/2013 10:43:03 AM PDT by Starstruck (Don't rest. We came close to the 2nd Amendment being field tested.)
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To: freepertoo

I’m with you there. I’ve got two grown kids who couldn’t name a single Beatles song. The Beatles are as removed from my children’s culture as the Glenn Miller Orchestra was to my generation’s culture when I was growing up in the 1970s.


188 posted on 04/21/2013 10:54:07 AM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: Graybeard58

I can honestly say Powell was never a hero of mine. In the 1996 goofy sci-fi comedy film “Mars Attacks”, there’s a character clearly based upon him. It’s not a very flattering portrait and it summed up my opinion of him both then and now.


189 posted on 04/21/2013 11:02:10 AM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: MNDude
You're only overrated until you're forgotten, as most overrated figures usually are -- or else they stop being overrated and become underrated.

If Leonard Bernstein or Aaron Copland or Adlai Stevenson or Albert Schweitzer or Dag Hammarskjöld or Sinclar Lewis or Carl Sandburg or Henry Steele Commager or Thomas Hart Benton was overrated a half-century ago, people around today have trouble placing their names.

John Steinbeck is still remembered -- largely as an example of someone who was overrated by an earlier generation. Maybe Picasso's name endures in a similar way.

My answer: I was going to say Walter Cronkite, who pretty much has been forgotten already, but maybe Edward R. Murrow is a better choice.

Murrow was one of those people whose reality never matched the myth that grew up around the name. Murrow was part and parcel of the commercial system but somehow got a reputation for saintly disinterest.

190 posted on 04/21/2013 11:02:27 AM PDT by x
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To: Northern Yankee

“We merely need to look at the worship status people bestow on the likes of the Kennedys, Clintons, Presley, Beatles, etc. Too often it is the reporting or image making that is in overdrive that blurs the reality of what is.”

Agreed.


191 posted on 04/21/2013 11:03:36 AM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

bttt


192 posted on 04/21/2013 11:41:02 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: wardaddy

Well, I neither dismiss Jefferson nor bash the South. I was born in Virginia and raised as a military brat, so I wasn’t immersed in liberalism.

I think a great deal of southerners, especially since so many of our accomplished military men came from the South. Granted, I did learn that the Civil War wasn’t completely over when I joined the military, but that didn’t mean that I had to take up arms against them because I was living in the north...:)

Just to be clear, I don’t dismiss Jefferson. He was one of our Founders. But I don’t have to like certain aspects of the way he did things, and the way he treated Washington behind his back later in his administration (in his efforts to undermine Hamilton) was uncalled for, disrespectful, and disloyal.

Even with that said, I don’t dismiss Jefferson. He was a brilliant man and contributed to the birth of this great country.

Note that I did not join the ranks of those calling him “overrated” here. FDR, Wilson and every Democrat president of the 20th century is overrated, but Jefferson deserves his place.

Now, I visited Madison’s place last year, and I must admit, the more I learned about him, the odder he sounded to me. But I don’t deny that he had talent and did much to steer the debates on the Constitution.


193 posted on 04/21/2013 1:04:42 PM PDT by rlmorel ("We'll drink to good health for them that have it coming." Boss Spearman in Open Range)
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To: Northern Yankee

I couldn’t agree more. I have long been troubled by the use of the adjective “hero” in this country.

Many people tend to confuse “hero” with “celebrity”. And I have never subscribed to the concept of treating people who died as a result of crime, terrorism or any number of things as “heroes”, but then I am one of those people who gets pissed every time they lower the flag to half-staff when anyone dies.

I think it is not a good or positive thing to constantly be flying our flag at half-staff. Do I think it was appropriate for 9-11? Yes. Do I think it is appropriate for this bombing up here in Boston? No, I don’t. I’ sure there are people who consider me some kind of uncaring neanderthal, but it doesn’t mean I don’t have sorrow for those killed and wounded.

I just think it is a BAD thing to constantly have our flags at half-staff. It conveys a sense of weakness and vulnerability that I think is both unhealthy and dangerous.


194 posted on 04/21/2013 1:13:11 PM PDT by rlmorel ("We'll drink to good health for them that have it coming." Boss Spearman in Open Range)
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To: x

Walter Cronkite is someone who would have gladly surrendered our sovereignty to the UN. Gladly and without reservation.

As far as I am concerned, this country is a far better place with him not being able to advocate his viewpoints any more. There were a lot of people who respected, trusted and looked up to him, but they had no idea of his crackpot new world order points of view.

To paraphrase Richard Nixon’s opinion about Alger Hiss, if the American people really knew how “Uncle Walt” really felt, they would have boiled him in oil.


195 posted on 04/21/2013 1:19:47 PM PDT by rlmorel ("We'll drink to good health for them that have it coming." Boss Spearman in Open Range)
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To: rlmorel
Yes sir... I agree as well in regards to your sentiment.

If we fly the flag at half staff for every little thing, soon it becomes an everyday thing and loses its significance.

196 posted on 04/21/2013 1:20:15 PM PDT by Northern Yankee (Where Liberty dwells, there is my Country. - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Northern Yankee

Sigh. You should see the looks of horror I get when I voice THAT opinion to some people...


197 posted on 04/21/2013 1:21:59 PM PDT by rlmorel ("We'll drink to good health for them that have it coming." Boss Spearman in Open Range)
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To: Sherman Logan

Personally, I don’t think FDR was a traitor in the sense that someone like Harry Dexter White or Alger Hiss were traitors.

I have always felt FDR was an ignorant, arrogant liberal SOB who planted the seeds of our financial and social destruction years later through his erroneous and flawed views of what role government should have in the personal lives of the electorate.

That he surrounded himself with liberals socialists and communists (the New Dealers were often all three) is just another strike against him in my book.


198 posted on 04/21/2013 1:30:08 PM PDT by rlmorel ("We'll drink to good health for them that have it coming." Boss Spearman in Open Range)
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To: MNDude

F Scott Fitzgerald. People buy his class envy whining without even thinking that he was rich at one time. Wiped out in the Crash of 29. I don’t know if he heard these warnings directly but Charlie Chaplin was telling everybody he knew to get the heck out of the market just before the crash.

Sylvia Plath. She did do us one service. Any woman who quotes Plath or frequently mentions her is a person to be avoided at all costs.


199 posted on 04/21/2013 1:40:34 PM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult (Liberals make unrealistic demands on reality and reality doesn't oblige them.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj
Martha Raye

Obviously, you never slept with her.

200 posted on 04/21/2013 1:47:22 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( ==> sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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