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First Discovery Of A Pre-Columbian Port On The Gulf Coast
Past Horizons ^ | Tuesday, April 16, 2013 | INAH

Posted on 04/20/2013 8:33:59 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

A retaining pier wall, four shrines and an unusual circular structure dating to over 1000 years old, have recently been found by archaeologists of the National Institute of anthropology and history (INAH) in the pre-Hispanic site of Tabuco in Veracruz...

Tabuco is located on the southern bank of the Tuxpan River 5 km from the sea, on a narrow strip of land between the river and to the south are the mangroves of Tumilco.

This Huastec site was explored in the 1940s by Gordon Ekholm, who carried out some initial investigations and determined the dates for occupation at between the Protoclassic (100BCE-AD250) and the early Postclassic (AD900-1200).

The investigations at this site is part of a larger archaeological project south of the Huasteca Veracruzana, looking at the system of polity in this pre-Columbian border region. The Tuxpan River is considered the boundary between the Huasteco and the Totonacos...

Some scholars have suggested it was an important port, where the marketplace was so large that the 15th century Aztec Triple Alliance made a serious effort to hold it as a tributary province, an area also important for cotton production, a resource that could not be planted in the Highlands.

(Excerpt) Read more at pasthorizonspr.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: godsgravesglyphs
Large plastered ramp and wall – part of the early Tuxpan port. Images: María Eugenia Maldonado / INAH.

First Discovery Of A Pre-Columbian Port On The Gulf Coast

1 posted on 04/20/2013 8:33:59 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


2 posted on 04/20/2013 8:34:46 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: SunkenCiv; Renfield; no-to-illegals; All

I have always been fascinated by the African type giant Olmec heads that are from at least 1000 BC. A few years ago I saw a Mediterranean artifact showing African mercenaries. SO now I have a theory that Phoenicians or other Sea People traveled to the new world with African mercenaries on board. Some got stuck there, and the mercenaries as the most powerful and warlike ended up in control of the crews and native population, and with the inputs from Mediterranean civilization helped the Olmec become the first developed civilization in Central America. Being warriors, not scholars, they did not introduce writing, but buildings they had seen and could have directed building.


3 posted on 04/20/2013 8:52:09 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: SunkenCiv

I’ve been here.


4 posted on 04/20/2013 9:48:42 PM PDT by Romulus
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To: SunkenCiv

Intersting.

I wonder what their ships looked like and what type of construction.


5 posted on 04/20/2013 10:02:01 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: gleeaikin

A theory like this has been making the rounds since at least the 70’s when I first heard it.

The problem with this theory is that geneticists should have found african dna that dates back a thousand years or more among central american tribes. This may have happened but I have not heard of it.

Another variation of this relates not to olmecs but rather to the mayans whose temples look strikingly like temples from Indonesia. But once again I have not heard about any confirming DNA evidence that would link the two peoples.


6 posted on 04/20/2013 10:05:01 PM PDT by ckilmer
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To: gleeaikin
I am always slightly taken aback at the underlying assumption that the indigeous mesoamerican population was not capable of developing a civilization of its own without assistance and leadership from "superior" Europeans or Africans. That could be perceived as condescending if not actually racist. In any event, there is no genetic data whatsoever to support your thesis about the Phoenicians/Africans in la Huasteca, or anywhere else on the continent for that matter. And unfortunately there is no linguistic evidence available. The genetic evidence (greatly simplified) is that African DNA did not arrive in the Western hemisphere until the time of the European conquest and initiation of the slave trade, that is, after the end of the 15th century.

"...among the derived alleles that are at low frequency in Yoruba and at high frequency in east Asians, we find that essentially all of these alleles are at intermediate frequency in Europeans...We also observed that for most of these SNPs, the allele frequencies in the Americas are similar to Han frequencies, suggesting that in most cases these alleles were already at high frequency prior to colonization of the Americas some 15,000 years ago ... Together, the latter observations suggest that perhaps the east Asian sweeps tend to be relatively old..."

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1000500#s2

7 posted on 04/20/2013 10:18:20 PM PDT by La Lydia
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To: gleeaikin; BenLurkin; ckilmer
My first thought was of the Olmecs too.

I read an article where an anthropologist was speculating that the Olmecs were the remains of what was once an over the land version of the Panama Canal...moving goods across land from one ocean to another. If you look at Olmec art...they have every racial type covered in their art.
I even had a picture (no longer) of an Olmec statue that looked exactly like a Jewish Rabbi. A trade route between east and west would encounter all racial types, eh?

Another guy speculated that they were refugees from the Shang dynasty collapse where it was written that 250,000 'took to the sea'.

Others have wondered where the 'build-up', the evolution, of the Olmec culture can be found...it's not there. It's appears to have 'sprang up' fully developed.

Anyway, this port may be related to them.

Olmecs Strangers In A Strange Land


8 posted on 04/20/2013 10:31:11 PM PDT by blam
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To: La Lydia
Vintage Skulls
9 posted on 04/20/2013 10:33:43 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

an enigma

10 posted on 04/21/2013 12:46:10 AM PDT by Fred Nerks (Come Visit Tasmania!)
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To: La Lydia

The American midwestern city of Cahokia around 1100 was larger than some European cities. The Euro city most often compared is London.

Cahokia is (was) across the river from St Louis and is on the way for many west ward vacations. A visit is advised on trips to Yellowstone et al.

It had it’s own henge...... a complex structure of wood used for archeo astronomical observations. Population estimates vary but top out around 25,000


11 posted on 04/21/2013 4:46:06 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 .....History is a process, not an event)
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To: bert

I have read several articles about this. Are you saying it was built by Africans or Phoenicians?


12 posted on 04/21/2013 7:05:12 AM PDT by La Lydia
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To: La Lydia

No, not at all. It is American.

It is to me truly amazing. My cousin in the valley of the Clinch River in East Tennessee has a stone celt found by his great uncle. It bears remarkable resemblance to those in the Cahokia museum discovered at two “factories” . There is evidence of trade for the mica mined in Western North Carolina. Trade was conducted over large distances.

Mean while simultaneously, similar large populations of what we know as Anasazi were active in the San Juan Basin/Colorado plateau.


13 posted on 04/21/2013 8:26:29 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 .....History is a process, not an event)
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To: gleeaikin

14 posted on 04/21/2013 8:31:44 AM PDT by BlueLancer ("Oh, man, that's a lot of Indians!" [LTC George A. Custer, 1876, near the Little Bighorn Valley])
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To: ckilmer; La Lydia; blam; SunkenCiv; All

Does anyone know how much genetic testing has actually been done in Central America. I have heard of European studies where a lot has been explained based on 1600 tests. Also, I am not suggesting that a lot of Africans made it to Mexico. All it would take would be one or a few very powerful warriors who may have survived a more general disaster or fighting to pull this off. Sterility, castration, or injury might result in lack of offspring. A few black females on board for the black mercenaries could keep a pure blood line that died out or was killed. Lots of ways that it could have happened.

Also, I agree about the Asian traces. I saw an exhibit at Epcot Center in Orlando, FL. There was a ceramic cup with what looked exactly like a Japanese figure. [I took one year of History and Appreciation of Art, which included Asian forms.] I have never had the impression that Mayan temples looked like Indonesian ones. Although I have not been to Yucatan, I have seen many illustrations/photos. Which temples did you have in mind, both the Mayan and Indonesian? I have seen the pyramids/buildings at Teotihuacan, Monte Alban and Mitla, walked in them and on them.


15 posted on 04/21/2013 1:37:56 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: gleeaikin; bert; La Lydia
LUZIA - Second Oldest Human Skeleton Ever Found In The Americas


16 posted on 04/21/2013 2:41:23 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Here is the first oldest....


17 posted on 04/21/2013 2:43:12 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: blam
Oldest North American Mummy

Spirit Cave Man, 9,400 Years Old

18 posted on 04/21/2013 2:46:51 PM PDT by blam
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To: dfwgator
The oldest skeleton ever found in the Americas is a woman:

'Arlington Springs Woman', 13,000 Years Old Human Skeleton, California Island

19 posted on 04/21/2013 4:00:57 PM PDT by blam
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To: gleeaikin
There is a fairly comprehensive piece regarding research into the genetics of Latin American populations here: http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=R9QLWnWDKn8C&oi=fnd&pg=PP1&dq=related:UvEwu02DRPcJ:scholar.google.com/&ots=DHQmplDf0P&sig=UJUnUBAmOtiJFf4GsRHnsVx158M#v=onepage&q&f=false

I don't think you understood my post. And I am fairly certain you are not conversant with the way genetic research is conducted. There is some very good information posted on Wiki here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve That said, I am still a little taken aback by the seemingly xenophobic assumption that the indigenous population of what is now Mexico would be incapable of creating its own civilization. On what evidence do you base that assumption? Your ideas about "powerful warriors" are an entertaining fantasy, but there is no data or facts to back it up. It is speculative. Far be it from me to discourage your imagination, but there is a difference between fiction (that includes castration and sterility and a few black females!) and what can be shown by evidence.

20 posted on 04/21/2013 5:06:23 PM PDT by La Lydia
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To: blam; gleeaikin

Well, to begin with I can say that my views fall on the side of the geneticists rather than with the anthropologists who study morphology. “More math, less art.” I haven’t paid very much attention to Luzia for several years, because it is a genetic dead end, but I seem to remember that the actual morphology put her in the Australian aboriginal column, rather than the African. There have been some findings on the West coast of South America than may indicate a wave of pre-Clovis immigration from Australia via Polynesia. Finally, there is no evidence that the extinct group to which Luzia belonged ever developed an advanced civilization. However, I believe there is at least one existing aboriginal population in Brazil whose morphology resembles pre-Mongoloids.


21 posted on 04/21/2013 5:33:14 PM PDT by La Lydia
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To: ckilmer
"Another variation of this relates not to olmecs but rather to the mayans whose temples look strikingly like temples from Indonesia."

Schoch make the comparison in his book:

Voyages Of The Pyramid Builders

There are more pyramids in Mexico than all of the rest of the world combined.

22 posted on 04/21/2013 6:07:15 PM PDT by blam
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To: La Lydia; blam; All

I know I do not have anything like solid evidence. However, speculation, especially in a way no one has stated before is a good way to get people looking for new and different information. Without speculation would people have started digging below Clovis layers and discovering earlier human traces? Be assured, my imagination will not be discouraged. Imaging is too much fun, and I don’t confuse facts with speculation.


23 posted on 04/21/2013 9:47:30 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: gleeaikin

Digging below Clovis layers? Straight down? How did that work?


24 posted on 04/22/2013 3:51:04 AM PDT by La Lydia
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To: gleeaikin

I was wondering about that, too. The locals didn’t have any sea-going. I don’t think they they even had anything like the giant whaling canoes used in the Pacific Northwest. Why would they have a seaport?

Also, there are supposedly wreck sites in South America with Greco-Roman type amphora. I think somebody was trading in South America loooooooong before Columbus or even Leif Ericson made it to the western hemisphere.


25 posted on 04/22/2013 5:57:26 AM PDT by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
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To: Little Ray; SunkenCiv; blam; All

Where they Greco-Roman amphora, or were the Phoenecian/Sea People amphora? Around a thousand years difference, and the later puts it around the time of the rise of the Olmecs.


26 posted on 04/22/2013 11:57:29 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: La Lydia; SunkenCiv; All

If you need to ask me that question, then I suggest you research a bit about how archaeology field research is actually conducted. Order a good book on Amazon.


27 posted on 04/23/2013 12:00:56 AM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: gleeaikin

You’re right. Of course. That’s what I need to do!! :)


28 posted on 04/23/2013 4:12:13 AM PDT by La Lydia
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To: La Lydia; gleeaikin

I’m always amazed at the underlying assumption that the idea of Precolumbian transoceanic contact has anything to do with all your straw man claims of racism, cultural supremacy, etc.


29 posted on 04/23/2013 5:58:30 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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