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Birth Abstracts Not Acceptable For Passport Applications
USPS | 5/2/13 | JoeA

Posted on 05/02/2013 4:52:40 PM PDT by JoeA

I was in the post office today attending to some business and saw a notice posted on the wall in the passport office. Here's what it said:

San Francisco passport agency
Sept 1996 bulletin
CALIFORNIA BIRTH ABSTRACTS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE FOR PASSPORT

Effective immediately California birth abstracts such as the one shown below are not acceptable for proof of citizenship. Computer programming used in creating these birth abstracts shows the county of issue as the place of birth even if the person was born in a foreign country. Because of this California birth abstracts are not acceptable as proof of birth in the US.

Unfortunately, I wasn't close enough to get a picture of the image.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Conspiracy; Miscellaneous; Society
KEYWORDS: birthcertificate; birther; naturalborncitizen; obama; passport; passportapplication; vanity
So the passport office doesn't accept CA birth abstracts as valid. I wonder how they feel about those issued by Hawaii?

BHO, call your office.

1 posted on 05/02/2013 4:52:40 PM PDT by JoeA
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To: JoeA

While we are on the subject.......has anyone seen Hussein’s passport records?


2 posted on 05/02/2013 4:56:48 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: JoeA
Effective immediately California birth abstracts such as the one shown below are not acceptable for proof of citizenship. Computer programming used in creating these birth abstracts shows the county of issue as the place of birth even if the person was born in a foreign country. Because of this California birth abstracts are not acceptable as proof of birth in the US.

Sounds like the reason why is a computer screw-up by California places their accuracy in question. If they correct the problem then will the feds allow them again?

3 posted on 05/02/2013 4:59:21 PM PDT by 0.E.O
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To: JoeA
No, but Stanley Ann's has been all over, especially the renewal where she had BHO removed -- as he was an Indonesian citizen at the time.
And then again, maybe Lieutenant Quarles Harris Jr. saw the passport.
4 posted on 05/02/2013 5:01:22 PM PDT by JoeA (JoeA / Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est)
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To: 0.E.O

The notice is from 1996. You’d think they would have corrected the error by now. Then again, the SF Bay Bridge rebuild is still not finished — and they started that after the 1989 earthquake.


5 posted on 05/02/2013 5:03:37 PM PDT by JoeA (JoeA / Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est)
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To: JoeA; LucyT; butterdezillion; MestaMachine; Cold Case Posse Supporter; Seizethecarp

JoeA,

Many thanks for the post !

You are absolutely correct, the govt won’t accept those abstracts, they want the real deal.

Passports, proof-of-citizenship for defense/govt jobs, security clearances, etc.


6 posted on 05/02/2013 5:05:07 PM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: JoeA

Doesn’t matter what the parents want ~ the chillun’ are unaffected by the actions of other nation’s laws regarding citizenship.


7 posted on 05/02/2013 5:06:43 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: JoeA

I get so sick of the “Lieutenant” Quarles Harris myth floating around... the guy was just some identity thief in a case completely unrelated to the passport breach.

The ones who saw Obama’s passport records are still out there, and have never been named by law enforcement or journalists, as far as I know. However, we do know they worked for John Brennan, who just happened to get promoted to Obama’s CIA director.

The two-bit dead crook Harris is just a red herring.


8 posted on 05/02/2013 5:06:57 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: null and void; LucyT; butterdezillion

FYI


9 posted on 05/02/2013 5:08:36 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Obama: "Born in Kenya" Lying now or then.)
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To: Boogieman
Well, the Washington Times (4/19/08) reported otherwise:
A key witness in a federal probe into passport information stolen from the State Department was fatally shot in front of a District church, the Metropolitan Police Department said yesterday.

Lt. Quarles Harris Jr., 24, who had been cooperating with a federal investigators, was found late Thursday night slumped dead inside a car, in front of the Judah House Praise Baptist Church in Northeast, said Cmdr. Michael Anzallo, head of the department’s Criminal Investigations Division.

...One agency employee, who was not identified in documents filed in U.S. District Court, was implicated in a credit-card fraud scheme after Lt. Harris told federal authorities he obtained “passport information from a co-conspirator who works for the U.S. Department of State.
So Harris did at least get the information, even if he wasn't involved in the original theft.

10 posted on 05/02/2013 5:13:05 PM PDT by JoeA (JoeA / Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est)
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To: BenLurkin
While we are on the subject.......has anyone seen Hussein’s passport records?

And lived to tell the tale? No.

11 posted on 05/02/2013 5:16:15 PM PDT by null and void ("Och, aye 'twas a huge beastie the shape of a haggis but the size o' the football pitch at Dunkeld!")
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FR is funded solely by the freedom loving folks who love and use it.
Stand with Free Republic.

12 posted on 05/02/2013 5:18:12 PM PDT by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
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To: null and void

Nope. See post #10.


13 posted on 05/02/2013 5:18:14 PM PDT by JoeA (JoeA / Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est)
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To: JoeA

Who has seen them and told?


14 posted on 05/02/2013 5:19:39 PM PDT by null and void ("Och, aye 'twas a huge beastie the shape of a haggis but the size o' the football pitch at Dunkeld!")
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To: JoeA
The Washington Times reporting is flawed. Leiutenant (note the spelling) Quarles Harris Jr., aka: LQ, aka Foots, was a DC gangbanger who got pulled over. In his car the cops found marijuana packaged for sale and, more interestingly, 20 credit cards in various names, as well as eight completed passport applications. Harris confessed that he was part of an identity theft ring that had someone inside the private company that processes the applications for the State Dept, and this person was giving them the completed forms. While out on bail, he got himself shot. Whether it was for snitching or some other street beef is unknown.


15 posted on 05/02/2013 5:31:16 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: JoeA

“So Harris did at least get the information, even if he wasn’t involved in the original theft.”

No, he didn’t. The case the Times reported on was an entirely separate case, and had nothing to do with the passport breach of the presidential candidates. Harris’ case related to an employee of the State Dept passing him vital information for use in credit card fraud, while the other case related to contractors working for Brennan’s firm accessing the passport records directly through the access they had at Brennan’s company.

The only connection between the two cases is that they were mentioned in the same article by the Washington Times, but when people started confusing the two cases, the Times issued a clarification that the two cases were not related:

“Mr. Harris was fatally shot in Northeast Washington in April. Police at the time said they had no information linking his shooting to his involvement in the passport case.

The breach came to light in March around the same time The Times first reported that three State Department contract employees were being investigated for improperly accessing the passport data of presidential candidates Sens. Barack Obama, John McCain and Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Mr. McCormack said the cases are not related.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/01/security-breach-threatens-passport-applicants//print/


16 posted on 05/02/2013 5:32:27 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: JoeA

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=625083

Just an easy verification.

Given the complete apparent lack of security standards on Hawaii COLB documents its hard to believe any function takes them.


17 posted on 05/02/2013 5:43:13 PM PDT by bluecat6 ("All non-denial denials. They doubt our ancestry, but they don't say the story isn't accurate. ")
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep

Sometimes you guys actually preform a public service.


18 posted on 05/02/2013 5:50:27 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: JoeA

An abstract contains the information about an event, but is not certified by the state (it would never be called a Certificate of Live Birth, for example). Does anyone even use abstracts anymore?


19 posted on 05/02/2013 7:02:30 PM PDT by ConstantSkeptic (Be careful about preconceptions)
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To: ConstantSkeptic

The certification statement for Hawaii certifies that a document is a true copy OR ABSTRACT of the original record on file. And the abstract is all that the Hawaii DOH will allow anybody to see now. Period. A computer printout.

And they do call it a “Certificate of Live Birth”. A standard copy of a birth certificate is authorized to be made by film, photocopy, or typing. Not by computer. But all the HDOH will issue is abstracts - computer printouts of the INFORMATION, not a copy of the actual record.

It’s as illegal as heck, but it’s what they do. Along with a bunch of other illegal things.


20 posted on 05/02/2013 7:31:01 PM PDT by butterdezillion (,)
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To: butterdezillion

And yet the U.S. State Department finds the Hawaiian Certificates of Live Birth are sufficient for passport applications.


21 posted on 05/02/2013 8:16:36 PM PDT by ConstantSkeptic (Be careful about preconceptions)
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To: butterdezillion

Butterdezillion,

What this means is, ever since Hawaii started sending out the computerized versions of the b.c., NOBODY born in Hawaii can get a passport, security clearance, defense dept job; anything that requires the certified copy ofthe the actual LFBC.
Anything “govt” needs the real deal...

butterdezillion wrote:

The certification statement for Hawaii certifies that a document is a true copy OR ABSTRACT of the original record on file. And the abstract is all that the Hawaii DOH will allow anybody to see now. Period. A computer printout.

And they do call it a “Certificate of Live Birth”. A standard copy of a birth certificate is authorized to be made by film,photocopy,or typing. Not by computer. But all the HDOH will issue is abstracts -computer printouts of the INFORMATION,not a copy of the actual record.

It’s as illegal as heck,but it’s what they do. Along with a bunch of other illegal things.


22 posted on 05/02/2013 8:40:54 PM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: ConstantSkeptic

What about for security clearances?

For those, the applicant needs to show where their parents were born.

For that they need their own LFBC to show not only who their parents were, but also the nationality of the parents.

If one of the parents were born overseas or isn’t a citizen, then it makes it difficult to pass the background check.

Security guys care about “ foreign involvement “.


23 posted on 05/02/2013 8:48:16 PM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: JoeA

Thanks for the clarification, I wasn’t aware of the full story, merely the initial tie-in by Wash Times.


24 posted on 05/02/2013 9:23:09 PM PDT by JoeA (JoeA / Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est)
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To: Boogieman

See my comment at post 24.
Posting from an iPhone isn’t the easiest thing. . .


25 posted on 05/02/2013 9:25:11 PM PDT by JoeA (JoeA / Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est)
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To: JoeA
Computer programming used in creating these birth abstracts shows the county of issue as the place of birth even if the person was born in a foreign country. Because of this California birth abstracts are not acceptable as proof of birth in the US...hmm - I've heard this before somewhere......
26 posted on 05/02/2013 9:33:45 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: WildHighlander57

Why would the government rely on your birth certificate for information about your parents? That information is self reported and can hardly be relied on.

If you look at Standard Form 86 (Questionnaire for National Security Positions), you will see that there is a section in which you report about the citizenship of relatives and associates. If, for example, the relatives or associates are citizens other than by birth, you have to provide information such as their naturalization number. That is verifiable information.

When you get a birth certificate, the state is certifying the information relating to the event recorded. For your birth, they are recording that a boy or girl was born on a specific date in a specific location. They are not certifying the birth place of your parents. Shoot, if it comes down to that, how many birth certificates contain the wrong dad? The state will report the name given of the father, but they don’t provide DNA tests.


27 posted on 05/02/2013 9:48:04 PM PDT by ConstantSkeptic (Be careful about preconceptions)
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To: ConstantSkeptic

Along with that sf86 form, they do want an official long form (NOT short form) birth certificate with a raised seal**.

This provides points of information to be cross checked.

**Raised seal is important; security guys have been known to make the applicant send for a fresh certified copy because the raised seal on the original had been compressed over the years.


28 posted on 05/02/2013 10:28:54 PM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: JoeA; 0.E.O
That notice is still on the City of Orange website.

http://www.cityoforange.org/depts/cityclerk/passport.asp

It has been known for sometime that Califonia and Texas BCs must be long form to get a passport.

"What is a certified birth certificate?"

"Certified birth certificates are generally issued by the county clerk’s office in the county where you were born. A certified birth certificate usually has a raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar’s office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note that certain birth certificates issued in Texas or California are called “abstract” birth certificates – these abstract birth certificates are not accepted by the federal government."

http://www.uspassportservice.com/faq/certified-birth-certificate/

The US State Department website only says that "some" short forms may not be accepted.

"*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar's signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes."

http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html#step3first

29 posted on 05/02/2013 11:42:14 PM PDT by 4Zoltan
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To: butterdezillion

Using Robert Redford’s line from the ending scene of “Three Days of the Condor” as its base...

They act like not getting caught in a lie is the same as telling the truth.


30 posted on 05/03/2013 5:01:44 AM PDT by bluecat6 ("All non-denial denials. They doubt our ancestry, but they don't say the story isn't accurate. ")
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To: bluecat6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w3E3eFMsLg

0:50 second mark...


31 posted on 05/03/2013 5:06:41 AM PDT by bluecat6 ("All non-denial denials. They doubt our ancestry, but they don't say the story isn't accurate. ")
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To: butterdezillion; ConstantSkeptic
"And they do call it a “Certificate of Live Birth”. A standard copy of a birth certificate is authorized to be made by film, photocopy, or typing. Not by computer. But all the HDOH will issue is abstracts - computer printouts of the INFORMATION, not a copy of the actual record."

I know you are aware of this but just for the record. Hawaiian statutes provide for computer printouts for certified copies and Hawaiian DOH Administrative rules only require the long form not be a computer printout but the "abbreviated copy" can be.

Hawaiian statutes

§338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, §17; RL 1955, §57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-13; am L 1978, c 49, §1]

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0013.htm

The last time that section was amended was in 1978.

Hawaiian Administrative Rules:

Chapter 8B 2.4 B Standards for Copies of Vital Records

(1) Standard Copy (a) Method of Preparation. Standard copies of vital records may be prepared by photographic, dry copy reproduction process, or typing. ...

[skip]

(2) Abbreviated Copy. Abbreviated copies may be prepared by typing, computer printout or by any other process approved by the Director.

http://gen.doh.hawaii.gov/sites/har/AdmRules1/8%208A%20B%20VR%20Admin%20Rules.pdf

32 posted on 05/03/2013 7:55:19 AM PDT by 4Zoltan
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To: 4Zoltan

Right. A standard copy cannot be produced as a computer printout, but must be produced by photography, dry copy reproduction, or typing.

Only the abbreviated copy/contents of the certificate (an abstract) can be produced by a computer printout.

When a person requests a standard copy they SHALL be given one. When they request all or a portion of the CONTENT of the certificate (an abstract) they SHALL be given that.

The statute gives the director authority to determine the method of reproduction for “copies”, but the Administrative Rules already state how STANDARD copies will be made while allowing the Director to decide other ways of making abstracts. The Director can lawfully change the method for producing standard birth certificates BUT ONLY BY AMENDING THE ADMINISTRATIVE RULES, which requires public notification, public hearings, and formal approval. That has not happened since 1976. Anything specifically stated in the Administrative Rules in 1976 is thus still in effect, and the Director cannot change that without going through the formal amendment process.

Fuddy is in violation of the law by not providing standard copies upon request, as required by 338-13(a). She has not followed any of the required procedures to change the method of production for standard copies.


33 posted on 05/03/2013 9:47:20 AM PDT by butterdezillion (,)
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To: butterdezillion

“When a person requests a standard copy they SHALL be given one. When they request all or a portion of the CONTENT of the certificate (an abstract) they SHALL be given that.”

§338-13 Certified copies. (a) ...the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

IIRC, what you said was the heart of Duncan Sunahara’s lawsuit against the DOH and the Hawaii court ruled against him saying that the DOH decides which one a person gets.

He is appealing that ruling. I Don’t know the status of the appeal.

Here is Sunahara’s appeal brief:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/110606460/HI-APPEAL-Sunahara-v-HIDOH-et-al-Appellants-Opening-Brief

And the response:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/110606437/HI-APPEAL-Sunahara-v-HIDOH-et-al-State-Appellees-Answering-Brief


34 posted on 05/03/2013 11:11:04 AM PDT by 4Zoltan
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To: ConstantSkeptic

OK lets look at the instance where the applicant is-
born in the us
to two us citizen parents,
therefore there will be no naturalization number.

How then will the investigators checking the self reported info entered on the form sf86 verify the info?

The birth cert of the applicant has what the applicants parents said.

There has to be a chain of documents going from the applicant to the parents, this would start with the long form birth cert for the applicant that lists the parents.

Then the investigators need documentation to support “ two citizen parents”.


35 posted on 05/04/2013 2:52:37 AM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: 4Zoltan; JoeA; 0.E.O; butterdezillion

Thanks to y’all for all the research into this, especially the Hawaii rules & concerning the last time they were updated.

My husband lives in california, and last year ran into the ‘abstract-not-ok-for-govt-use’ when he applied for VA benefits and for his passport.

All he ever had was the New York area hospital short-form abstract.

In both instances he had to send away for the long form certified copy and include it with the apps.


36 posted on 05/04/2013 3:10:46 AM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: 4Zoltan

“...the DOH decides which one a person gets.”

Wow. Really? Are they that corrupt in that state? Don’t answer that.

Clearly the intent is that if a certified copy is requested the department SHALL issue it. If the contents are requested the department SHALL issue that. If any part of the contents without the whole set being requested the department SHALL issue that.

The ‘decision’ of the DOH to issue any ‘one of the three’ is almost without a a doubt in the category of arbitrary and capacious. HOW would the department decide which to issue. It is impossible to determine without arbitrary and capacious decision making.

Yes, they believe not getting caught in a lie is the same as telling the truth. But they are different. You have to keep lying to cover up the first lie. So how far does Hawaii go on with this? Probably till one of their own goes to jail.


37 posted on 05/04/2013 5:31:50 AM PDT by bluecat6 ("All non-denial denials. They doubt our ancestry, but they don't say the story isn't accurate. ")
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To: WildHighlander57

An interesting link from the past on the subject of the status of the COLB.

http://www.wnd.com/2009/07/103408/

In between 6/8/2009 and 6/18/2009 Hawaii’s DHHL changed the requirement of LFBC only to accepting COLBs.


38 posted on 05/04/2013 5:45:45 AM PDT by bluecat6 ("All non-denial denials. They doubt our ancestry, but they don't say the story isn't accurate. ")
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To: bluecat6

Bluecat,

Thanks for the link!

I wonder if any folks born in Hawaii have had trouble getting passports or security clearances based on what Hawaii is doing now.

What’s your take on the points raised upthread concerning the govt forms and anecdote about difficulty getting benefits and passport?


39 posted on 05/04/2013 7:43:42 AM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: WildHighlander57

Hawaii documents have to be absolute worst in the nation. They really have no security features at all in them.

The dumbing down of Hawaii state issued documents has been underway for a long time. Peter Boy’s COLB proves this.

And because the court ordered his records opened the Hawaii DHS had them posted on their website for years. Easy access. Direct.

Not now. The Peter Boy COLB raises the question of when and why did Hawaii use less secure forms for their certified copies and COLBs? When and why?

It would seem after 1991 - When Peter Boy’s COLB was created. In 1991 Hawaii was using forms with more secure feature than they do currently. Why did they take a step back? When did they take a step back?

http://imageshack.us/a/img6/4746/peterboycertificate.jpg

http://archives.starbulletin.com/2006/03/16/news/story16.html

More discussion I posted in other thread here....

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/3005060/posts?page=156


40 posted on 05/04/2013 8:55:00 AM PDT by bluecat6 ("All non-denial denials. They doubt our ancestry, but they don't say the story isn't accurate. ")
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To: bluecat6

1991 - 2001 - 2011

20 years since they relaxed the standards and clammed up.

Enough time for more shenanigans, coverups, and.....

Infiltration.


41 posted on 05/04/2013 6:23:20 PM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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