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Look Past The Dragons In Game of Thrones
New York Magazine ^ | May 19, 2013 | Matt Zoller Seitz

Posted on 05/19/2013 12:57:25 PM PDT by OddLane

We’re only halfway through the season, and it’s only May, but it’s already hard for me to imagine any show topping Game of Thrones on my 2013 year-end best-of list. There are more innovative and original series, but none that satisfies on so many levels, or that juggles so much plot and so many characters with the appearance of ease.

Since HBO’s blockbuster adaptation of George R.R. Martin’s fiction debuted in 2011, many have lodged complaints about the show’s racial stereotypes and simplistic sexual dynamics—and rightly so; Thrones was a problematic series and still is, despite course corrections that suggest showrunners David Benioff and D. B. Weiss heard their critics. Beyond that, however, the show doesn’t get enough credit. Nearly a decade after ­Peter Jackson won Oscars for a film ­series about wizards and hobbits, fantasy is still seen as disreputable nerd bait rather than a legitimate mainstream genre.

That should change this year, and if it doesn’t, fans can cry foul.

(Excerpt) Read more at vulture.com ...


TOPICS: Music/Entertainment; TV/Movies
KEYWORDS: fantasy; gameofthrones; hollywood
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1 posted on 05/19/2013 12:57:25 PM PDT by OddLane
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To: OddLane; Aevery_Freeman; Impy; fieldmarshaldj; GOPsterinMA; GSP.FAN; ShadowAce; SunkenCiv; ...

Game of Thrones = “The War of the Roses” + “Hyborian Age by Robert E Howard”

Lannister = House of Lancaster

Stark = House of York


2 posted on 05/19/2013 1:04:52 PM PDT by Perdogg (Sen Ted Cruz, Sen Mike Lee, and Sen Rand Paul are my adoptive Senators)
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To: OddLane

For a show about a mythical land where dragons and magic exist, not to mention naked womenzes left and right, this show can be incredibly boring.


3 posted on 05/19/2013 1:05:27 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: OddLane
Since HBO’s blockbuster adaptation of George R.R. Martin’s fiction debuted in 2011, many have lodged complaints about the show’s racial stereotypes and simplistic sexual dynamics—and rightly so

That is the sort of thing you have to say to work at Vulture.com.

4 posted on 05/19/2013 1:07:44 PM PDT by x
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To: fr_freak

The actual sex and nudity has fallen off since the first few episodes in season one. The problem with the show is it uses violence, sex (including homosexual), and nudity as shock value rather than adding anything to the plot. I am not opposed to it as long as it make sense to the development of the story.


5 posted on 05/19/2013 1:09:06 PM PDT by Perdogg (Sen Ted Cruz, Sen Mike Lee, and Sen Rand Paul are my adoptive Senators)
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To: fr_freak

I had never seen the show until this week, when I bought Season 1 after hearing several people praising the show. After three or four episodes, I’m having the same problem I had with “24” - I get so angry at the evil characters, and the delayed sense of justice, that I can hardly watch it, despite all the naked women prancing around.


6 posted on 05/19/2013 1:09:23 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: x

Have you seen any of the episodes?


7 posted on 05/19/2013 1:09:54 PM PDT by Perdogg (Sen Ted Cruz, Sen Mike Lee, and Sen Rand Paul are my adoptive Senators)
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To: fr_freak

It’s not about a mythical land where dragons and magic exist. It’s about the exercise of power. That power happens to be exercised in a mythical land where a few dragons and small amount of magic exist, but that’s set dressing.


8 posted on 05/19/2013 1:10:42 PM PDT by discostu (Not just another moon faced assassin of joy.)
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To: Perdogg

The House of Lancaster lead to the Beaumonts (the bastard children of John of Gaunt and Katherine (de Roet) Swynford) which every English monarch since Henry VII is related to.


9 posted on 05/19/2013 1:11:45 PM PDT by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: Steve_Seattle

Well it won’t get any better, and don’t get too attached to any character.


10 posted on 05/19/2013 1:12:14 PM PDT by Mmogamer (I refudiate the lamestream media, leftists and their prevaricutions.)
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To: Perdogg

Tha’ts 1399 to present.


11 posted on 05/19/2013 1:14:10 PM PDT by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: OddLane

proud to say never spent a second on anything to do with game of thrones.


12 posted on 05/19/2013 1:20:13 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Mmogamer
"Well it won’t get any better, and don’t get too attached to any character."

The world depicted in the series is kind of a medieval world without Christianity, with a little fantasy and magic thrown in. So far, it seems like a dark world, a Dark Ages, darker than the so-called Dark Ages of real history.
13 posted on 05/19/2013 1:20:33 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: discostu
It’s not about a mythical land where dragons and magic exist. It’s about the exercise of power.

OK. For a show about exercising power in a land where dragons and magic exist, it can be incredibly boring.
14 posted on 05/19/2013 1:21:14 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: Secret Agent Man

Except this thread.


15 posted on 05/19/2013 1:22:03 PM PDT by needmorePaine
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To: Secret Agent Man

I read the first book, interesting but too fantastic. Mercifully we don’t get TV so I haven’t had to witness the ultimate “it fails in comparison to the book” syndrome.


16 posted on 05/19/2013 1:23:18 PM PDT by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: Perdogg
I saw season one.

It's fantasy and it's on cable, so they can pretty much get away with anything. Heck, if they can go after the all powerful dwarf-American lobby, nobody is safe.

Smarty-pants culture journalists create controversies about racism and sexism in fantasy worlds to attract an audience. I really doubt anybody is that serious about such complaints, especially since those "stereotypes" don't all run in one direction. But I could be wrong: Seitz and his colleagues could be that silly.

17 posted on 05/19/2013 1:23:50 PM PDT by x
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To: gorush
I think you meant the Beauforts.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

18 posted on 05/19/2013 1:24:01 PM PDT by LonePalm (Commander and Chef)
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To: OddLane

So far this season of Game of Thrones has been fantastic.

They are following the books very closely, with only a few differences.

I do wish Strong Belwas was included, but overall I suppose he is a minor character.

They have also really focused on the torment of Theon, whereas in the books the reader only knew of it after it happened, and not until quite a bit later.

Only thing that really bugs me is the continued insistence on showing gay sex. I figured it was done since Renly is dead, but I should have known that as long as Ser Loras remains, so does the potential for more...crap.

But I guess these are the times I live in, so I do not dwell on that unfortunate part of an otherwise excellent adaptation of truly brilliant books.


19 posted on 05/19/2013 1:24:58 PM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Perdogg
A great (non-fiction) work about that conflict is Fatal Colours .

One of the things I wish Martin did more with the books is go into the strategic thinking behind the actual battles, rather than simply focusing on the atrocities and economic/military consequences of their outcomes.

20 posted on 05/19/2013 1:26:41 PM PDT by OddLane
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To: Steve_Seattle
After three or four episodes, I’m having the same problem I had with “24” - I get so angry at the evil characters, and the delayed sense of justice, that I can hardly watch it...

Actually, I think that is one of the show's main failings, which tends to make it boring: there are plenty of evil characters, but not really any good ones, so you never really get emotionally involved with the story. You're just watching a bunch of a**holes battling for supremacy. I know the show is designed to have the audience root for the Stark family, but they aren't particularly endearing either. I think a really engaging show has to give the audience someone to root for, and ideally, someone to root against. Instead we have a glorified version of "Jersey Shore" with dragons and ballgowns. I'd say the only character I actually like is the dwarf, not because he's good, but just because he's cool.
21 posted on 05/19/2013 1:27:28 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: LonePalm

You are correct...I had another episode of mentalpause.


22 posted on 05/19/2013 1:27:30 PM PDT by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: OddLane

I am assuming that a strongman will emerge from Dany Tagaryen’s Praetorian guard.

I just received my Folio Society’s copy of “The War of the Roses” by Desmond Seward.


23 posted on 05/19/2013 1:30:17 PM PDT by Perdogg (Sen Ted Cruz, Sen Mike Lee, and Sen Rand Paul are my adoptive Senators)
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To: OddLane

I read that recently.


24 posted on 05/19/2013 1:36:02 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Sarah is right.)
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To: fr_freak
You're just watching a bunch of a**holes battling for supremacy.

I really enjoy the show, but I have to agree with your analysis. I get the impression that George R. R. Martin doesn't much care for his characters either. Apparently when asked about how it would end he said that the end would be a cloud of dust or snow being driven by the wind across a vast graveyard full of tombstones.

Not exactly a "happily ever after" scenario there...

25 posted on 05/19/2013 1:40:16 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: Perdogg; All

I love Game of Thrones and I don’t even care much for fantasy. The characters are strong, the acting and direction is first rate and it is filmed on location. The story is powerful and intriguing. Can’t get much better than that for a tv series.


26 posted on 05/19/2013 1:40:53 PM PDT by varina davis (A real American patriot -- Gov. Rick Perry)
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To: Perdogg
The problem with the show is it uses violence, sex (including homosexual), and nudity as shock value rather than adding anything to the plot.

I'm reading the first book now, and though the show sticks pretty closely to the book, I have been surprised by how relatively little of this stuff is in the book. Shock value, for sure.

27 posted on 05/19/2013 1:41:18 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: Perdogg

“Now is the winter of our discontent.”


28 posted on 05/19/2013 1:44:20 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: OddLane

It’s scenes like this that make the show what it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-S9VVH-toc


29 posted on 05/19/2013 1:48:50 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: OddLane

As much as I despise The author, who is an anti-American leftist and a huge douche in general, I do love the ASoIaF books.

So many parallels to the current “Game of Thrones” in Washington.

Jeoffrey = 0bama: We have the Petulant Child as King / President.

Cersi= a composite of MoochHell, Hillary and Valerie Jarrett

King Robert = Bill Clinton; more interested in whores than running his nation.

Tywin Lannister = George Soros

Renley Baratheon= Mitt Romney

Theon Greyjoy= John McCain

Petyr Baelish= Lew, Geithner, Bernanke composite

Walder Frey= About every Democrat Senator (and half of the GOP ones)

Janos Slynt= Janet Napolitano

Ygritte= Sarah Palin

Brienne= Michelle Bachmann

Ser Loras = Reggie Love

The Weeper= John Boehner

Unfortunately, I don’t see any Danerys, Jon Snow, or Tyrion Lannisters or any of the smart and somewhat honorable characters in real life. Ted Cruz maybe.


30 posted on 05/19/2013 1:50:05 PM PDT by LegendHasIt
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To: Perdogg
Despite the excesses, I've really enjoyed Game Of Thrones. Having not read the books I had no preconceptions. The characters are almost perfectly cast, the locations are stunning, the props and costuming are phenomenal and the story is elaborate enough to have the undercurrents and back channels that make for surprise yet it remains true to a simple trajectory.

I have had high hopes for the development of the Daenerys Targaryen “Mother Of Dragons” character, she's physically very beautiful and therefore easy to watch. But, thus far this season, the few examples of stilted or strained storylines or ancillary characters has centered around her. This whole “great white hope” freeing all the slaves is racism masquerading as anachronistic progressivist fantasy. It's as wooden as one of Ayn Rand's protagonists hopping on a soapbox for a chapter-long soliloquy.

Maybe there's more going on, a leader is emerging among “her” people, “The Worm.” Given the particulars though, I'm a little concerned that the author and the directors just can't help themselves and will end up going full Mandingo on us.

It feels that predictable to me at this point. They'll lose me if so.

31 posted on 05/19/2013 1:53:23 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Tax-chick
I'm about three hundred pages or so into A Storm of Swords,, the third book in the series.

I've only watched one episode of Game of Thrones, but I was impressed.

32 posted on 05/19/2013 2:03:54 PM PDT by OddLane
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To: OddLane

Tom (#2 son) is reading that now. We got a disc from Netflix, but decided it really wasn’t suitable for our viewing audience.


33 posted on 05/19/2013 2:05:35 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Sarah is right.)
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To: Tax-chick
I can just imagine.

Not much on HBo is family friendly.

34 posted on 05/19/2013 2:09:10 PM PDT by OddLane
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To: OddLane

So I understand, from what I read on FR! We don’t actually consume much current pop culture, just read about it.

Well, I do recognize several X-men, like Captain Picard and Halle Berry, since Tom watched the movies before I went to bed.


35 posted on 05/19/2013 2:12:12 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Sarah is right.)
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To: chris37
"Only thing that really bugs me is the continued insistence on showing gay sex. I figured it was done since Renly is dead, but I should have known that as long as Ser Loras remains, so does the potential for more...crap."

I haven't seen the series, so perhaps this unfair, but that is really off putting to any idea to watch the program.

36 posted on 05/19/2013 2:17:56 PM PDT by Truth29
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To: OddLane

I’ve never had the urge to watch it.


37 posted on 05/19/2013 2:23:07 PM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: gorush

Whoa, Nelly...not quite...
The House of Lancaster was established by Henry IV who killed Richard II for the throne. Henry was the very legitimate son of John of Gaunt by Blanche of Lancaster, daughter of the very wealthy Duke of Lancaster.
And those “bastard children” were legitimized by the Church after John married Katherine when his last wife died.
You are right, though, that the children of John and Katherine were fashioned Beaufort and Henry VII is a Beaufort, hence their blood is in ER II’s veins...with more German blood than anything else!
Cheers....


38 posted on 05/19/2013 2:24:56 PM PDT by matginzac
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To: Perdogg

Another excellent and recently published book on the War of the Roses is by Alison Weir...not too hard to follow and actually entertaining.


39 posted on 05/19/2013 2:28:03 PM PDT by matginzac
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To: matginzac

Cheers!


40 posted on 05/19/2013 2:31:20 PM PDT by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: Truth29

Well, I have read the books and I will say that they are the best books I’ve ever read, the main reason for that being character depth.

In the books, the homosexual relationship of Renly and Ser Loras was at best vaguely hinted at with no direct reference to gay sex whatsoever.

In the HBO series, it has been translated to showing gay sex on screen which is hard to stomach to say the least.

If I am not mistaken, it’s been 3 scenes so far, two between Renly and Loras and a third between Loras and a newly invented character that was never in the book. This new character seems to have been invented for the sole purpose of showing yet more gay sex, which is really annoying.

I would highly recommend reading the books before even considering watching the series, because while the series is good, the books are a masterpiece. It’s not an easy read though, it’s 5,000+ pages of a long, slow developing scenario, but the first thing I did when I got to the end was start over at the beginning. It’s that good.

What I really love about watching the series is seeing certain scenes that came to have a lot of meaning to me acted out on screen so well. Furthermore, the characters in the book are developed so extensively that it is thrilling to see them come to life via some of the most perfectly selected actors and actresses that I have ever seen.

Sadly, someone involved in this project wants to desensitize people to seeing gay sex, but it isn’t going to work with me, that’s for sure.


41 posted on 05/19/2013 2:32:44 PM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: LegendHasIt

Theon Greyjoy as McCain is PERFECT! :D

And now I know why I like Ygritte so much!


42 posted on 05/19/2013 2:35:28 PM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: OddLane

I’m disappointed with season two so far.


43 posted on 05/19/2013 2:37:10 PM PDT by Rebelbase (1929-1950's, 20+years for full recovery. How long this time?)
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To: RegulatorCountry

You need to read the books.

They are following Danaery’s character in the book very closely.

Remember, she was sold as a slave to Khal Drogo by her own brother for the price of a crown.


44 posted on 05/19/2013 2:37:52 PM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: fr_freak

I like the determination of the character Arya Stark, Tyrion the imp is rather hilarious, and The Hound is sympathetic (Especially if you have read the books).


45 posted on 05/19/2013 2:45:51 PM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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To: fr_freak

“...a bunch of a**holes battling for supremacy...”

Kinda like real life.


46 posted on 05/19/2013 2:49:40 PM PDT by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: FReepers

Click The Pic To Donate

Support FR, Donate Monthly If You Can

47 posted on 05/19/2013 2:52:12 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (My faith and politics cannot be separated)
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To: OddLane
Needless to say, the universe of ‘Games of Thrones’ has nothing on the games DC plays. The amount of whores when Congress meets would leave Littlefinger speechless and in awe.
48 posted on 05/19/2013 2:53:29 PM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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To: Secret Agent Man
proud to say never spent a second on anything to do with game of thrones.

I bet it took more than a second to post that.

49 posted on 05/19/2013 2:55:28 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: chris37
And now I know why I like Ygritte so much!

You know nothing, Chris 37. ;-)

50 posted on 05/19/2013 2:56:20 PM PDT by LegendHasIt
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