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States consider fees for hybrids to recoup lost gasoline taxes
Fuel Fix ^ | 6/9/2013 | Chris Kardish

Posted on 06/10/2013 6:25:54 AM PDT by rktman

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) — North Carolina is joining a growing number of states exploring new fees for hybrid and electric car owners to help make up for revenue those drivers aren’t paying in gas taxes on their fuel-efficient vehicles.

(Excerpt) Read more at fuelfix.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Society; Travel
KEYWORDS: biggovernment; didiots; energy; envirowacko; gasoline; gastax; hybridcars; hybrids; hybridvehicles; motorfueltax; ponzischeme; tax
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Make them stop. My sides are hurting. Unintended consequences anyone? More likely "they" will raise the taxes on those of us who don't buy in to the AGW scam and fail to comply. Think I'll go crank up the Hemi.
1 posted on 06/10/2013 6:25:54 AM PDT by rktman
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To: rktman
How about hitting those little Smart Cars with the same tax? Driving a fuel efficient car is the same as cheating on your taxes. (do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
2 posted on 06/10/2013 6:33:32 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (This message has been recorded but not approved by Obama's StasiNet. Read it at your peril.)
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To: rktman

Ok now, WHO didn’t see this coming? Bueller, Bueller...


3 posted on 06/10/2013 6:33:48 AM PDT by The Working Man
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To: rktman

Let no good deed go unpunished.


4 posted on 06/10/2013 6:34:37 AM PDT by stboz
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To: rktman

Yup, time to take the road trip machine Expedition EL off the blocks ......


5 posted on 06/10/2013 6:39:40 AM PDT by tgusa (gun control: deep breath, sight alignment, squeeze the trigger .......)
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To: rktman
In NY state, the divorced, pro-abortion "Catholic" Andy Cuomo has suggested new businesses build on college campuses - tax free.
But to make up for the lost taxes there will be PILOTs ... Payments In Lieu Of Taxes.
You can't make this stuff up.
6 posted on 06/10/2013 6:43:26 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: The Working Man

It’s funny - leftists get all in a tizzy when folks act rationally and take actions and make decisions to avoid the egregious regulations that they impose on us...

and they’re equally astounded when some policies they push are detrimental to other parts of their agenda, including reduced revenue to their beloved government.


7 posted on 06/10/2013 6:45:05 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: MrB

In Ann Arbor Michigan, taxpayers pay to charge electric cars driven by 6 figure earning professors.


8 posted on 06/10/2013 6:46:52 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: rktman
You didn’t have to be a rocket scientist to see this one coming. The state governments are like vacuum cleaners sucking up all available money to fund garbage programs that the politicians consider “essential”.
9 posted on 06/10/2013 6:47:54 AM PDT by MasterGunner01
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To: cripplecreek

The left are, at heart, feudalists...

The “nobility” live at the expense of the “peasants”,
producing nothing of their own, and enforcing their position of privilege through force of arms.


10 posted on 06/10/2013 6:49:41 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: rktman

bttt


11 posted on 06/10/2013 6:50:07 AM PDT by bmwcyle (People who do not study history are destine to believe really ignorant statements.)
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To: rktman

Can’t escape the Taxman...


12 posted on 06/10/2013 6:51:46 AM PDT by Hotlanta Mike ("Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu)
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To: rktman
I'm not exactly sure how I feel about this one. On the one hand, gas taxes are intended to help pay for maintaining the roads. The theory behind using gas taxes for this purpose was that the more gas you used, the more driving you were doing and thus, the more wear and tear you placed on the roads. With hybrids and electric cars, you are still using the roads just as much as with a gas car, but since you are paying fewer/no gas taxes to maintain the roads.

On the other hand, the money received from the gas taxes is all too often raided to fund liberal programs, and the roads become pothole filled hellholes anyway, so I don't mind starving the beast anyway we can.

Of course, I love the irony that these extra fees would hit liberals dis-proportionally...

13 posted on 06/10/2013 6:54:14 AM PDT by CA Conservative (Texan by birth, Californian by circumstance)
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To: rktman

The left hand passes out mega-buck subsidies for electric vehicles that no one wants and the right hand is PO’ed and want new taxes because of lost gas tax revenues. You ever get the felling that they get you coming and going?


14 posted on 06/10/2013 7:02:14 AM PDT by econjack (I'm not bossy...I just know what you should be doing.)
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To: stboz

I’m in Kentucky and I heard our state is discussing this. I have mixed emotions, though.

Imagine a guy invents an 4,000 lb car that runs solely on solar power. It means (especially in my state) that he is paying nothing to drive on our state’s roads. Fact is, gas taxes (used as they were intended) is one of the fairest ways to pay for a thing. You use the road so you pay for it in the fuel you burn. A light car does less harm so it pays less taxes via its fuel efficiency. But if someone creates a care that is wildly efficient there needs to be some way to extract payment for use.

I’m no fan of tracking miles driven or turning all roads into toll roads, but a surcharge on “ultra efficient” vehicle annual tabs may be a good way to mitigate this.


15 posted on 06/10/2013 7:03:28 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: CA Conservative

You and I basically said the same thing, but you beat me to it. ;-)


16 posted on 06/10/2013 7:04:31 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: rktman

That’s what happened here in Ohio in a similar libtard move. The electric customers were so good at conserving power (turning lights off when not needed, etc.) as suggested by the power company, that the power company had to raise its rates to bring in the lost revenue to continue to pay the union wages and retirement.


17 posted on 06/10/2013 7:13:45 AM PDT by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: cuban leaf

Tax tires, because tire wear is directly proportional to road use. Problem solved.


18 posted on 06/10/2013 7:14:36 AM PDT by Oberon (Big Brutha Be Watchin'.)
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To: rktman

Actually this is a good thing. Why should you and I subsidize Alternative fuel cars. You are paying their taxes as the fuel tax both federal and state pay to build and maintain the roads.

A hybrird vehicle is not paying the fuel tax and is getting a freeride from all of us. We need to tax these vehicles or we will pay more for fuel taxes.

I am in the trucking business and we pay a lot of fuel taxes for trucks going down the road. But you do too in your car.


19 posted on 06/10/2013 7:15:14 AM PDT by ncfool (Obama's aMeriKa 2012 can we make it until 2016?)
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To: rktman

No surprise here... All the tax incentives for buying “super-efficient” automobiles, plus the incentive of lower fuel costs (including paying less taxes on that fuel)... but of course, there are strings attached.

And all this while we wonder who is going to pay for the disposal/processing of all the exhausted batteries from these vehicles (mega-expensive to make and dispose of - and are pretty horrible for the environment on both ends.... never hear the Prius salesman mention that...)


20 posted on 06/10/2013 7:19:57 AM PDT by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: Oberon

Tax tires, because tire wear is directly proportional to road use. Problem solved.


That is a really good option! I’ll have to think about it.


21 posted on 06/10/2013 7:23:03 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Oberon

Tires are taxed - and min many states, multiple times...

You have sales taxes (which are at least the prevailing tax rate)

You have a used tire disposal fee charged when you get new tires (supposedly for the old tires you are getting rid of, even though they will just be sold either as used tires, or recycled into a variety of materials that will actually MAKE someone money - but the sate requires the fee...).

How about sales tax on tires not go into the “general” fund, but be specifically channeled to the highway/road funds.


22 posted on 06/10/2013 7:24:33 AM PDT by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: TheBattman

I bet more than a few owners of the hybrids will be in for a real “shock” when it comes time to replace the battery in their earth saving vehicle.


23 posted on 06/10/2013 7:24:44 AM PDT by rktman
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To: ncfool

I am one of those foolish capitalists - who believes that the free market should take care of all this. The government has absolutely NO business paying people to buy these cars. If people buy them, it should be on their own merits and the consumer’s view on the value they receive.

Let the enviro-nazis pay the REAL cost of those ecco-nut cars. See how committed they really are to their supposed cause.


24 posted on 06/10/2013 7:27:48 AM PDT by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: Oberon

Tax tires, because tire wear is directly proportional to road use. Problem solved.


That is a really good option! I’ll have to think about it.

Oops, I just realized that suddenly wheel alignment would be paramount. I only got 20k miles out of my last set of front tires on my Chrysler because it was so out of alignment.


25 posted on 06/10/2013 7:28:29 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: cuban leaf
I just realized that suddenly wheel alignment would be paramount. I only got 20k miles out of my last set of front tires on my Chrysler because it was so out of alignment.

Sure. And keeping your tires properly inflated would be a good idea too, and not speeding through tight turns, and never barking a tire on take-off.

I don't see these as objections, however. I like having ways to minimize my taxes.

26 posted on 06/10/2013 7:41:43 AM PDT by Oberon (Big Brutha Be Watchin'.)
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To: TheBattman

Don’t forget the coal it burns to create the electric to the charging station.


27 posted on 06/10/2013 7:55:18 AM PDT by ncfool (Obama's aMeriKa 2012 can we make it until 2016?)
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To: TheBattman

We are on the same page.


28 posted on 06/10/2013 7:56:05 AM PDT by ncfool (Obama's aMeriKa 2012 can we make it until 2016?)
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To: Oberon

I don’t see these as objections, however. I like having ways to minimize my taxes.


Yep. I’m all about “pay for use”. Otherwise, you find yourself in a “taxation without representation” situation.

I’d love to see welfare meted out as follows: Every citizen gets two years of welfare, but that’s it. You can use it at any time, even if you are fully employed at the time, but once your two years worth are used up, yer gonna have to depend on the charity of individual citizens, churches, etc. or die on the street, so use it wisely.


29 posted on 06/10/2013 8:12:12 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Oberon

Sure. And keeping your tires properly inflated would be a good idea too, and not speeding through tight turns, and never barking a tire on take-off.


It might make me start rotating my tires. :-)

I think all cars would probably require wheel locks too. Imagine the tax on each tire for 30-40K of road use. I suspect that a fairly new tire would be worth well over a thousand dollars in saved tax revenue.


30 posted on 06/10/2013 8:14:17 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: rktman; SierraWasp; tubebender; Ernest_at_the_Beach

“I bet more than a few owners of the hybrids will be in for a real “shock” when it comes time to replace the battery in their earth saving vehicle.”

Out here on the left coast, many Pius owners sell their tax supported Piuses before their batteries need to be replaced.

My wife have noticed that the lefty Pius owners are as evasive about the real cost of their Pius batteries as they are about what their IPhones really cost each month.


31 posted on 06/10/2013 8:19:36 AM PDT by Grampa Dave ('How empty and dead' were they to let Chris Stevens, one of them , die for 'Obama-Clinton fiction?')
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To: cuban leaf

“I’d love to see welfare meted out as follows: Every citizen gets two years of welfare, but that’s it. You can use it at any time, even if you are fully employed at the time, but once your two years worth are used up, yer gonna have to depend on the charity of individual citizens, churches, etc. or die on the street, so use it wisely.”

A good plan, but restrict the 2 years maximum use to a maximum time of 6 months for each welfare session. Then, they have to wait 10 years before they get the next 6 months.

So they get 24 months divided over 40 years.

Also, If they go off welfare in 2 months, they would have 22 months life time left or whatever the math would work out to be.


32 posted on 06/10/2013 8:27:29 AM PDT by Grampa Dave ('How empty and dead' were they to let Chris Stevens, one of them , die for 'Obama-Clinton fiction?')
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To: ncfool
CleanCar photo IDriveACleanCar.jpg
33 posted on 06/10/2013 8:42:50 AM PDT by preacher (Communism has only killed 100 million people: Let's give it another chance!)
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To: rktman
Then what's the point?
Clearly, the left hand doesn't know what the other left hand is doing.

34 posted on 06/10/2013 8:45:52 AM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: rktman

In all fairness part of the gas taxes are supposed to be for road maintenance, so if you drive a electric car and pay no fuel taxes you are by default not paying your share of road maintenance. Is anyone going to cry for these car owners? Not Me.


35 posted on 06/10/2013 10:11:42 AM PDT by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: rktman

Most hybrids don’t get better gas mileage than the best non-hybrids; some people for example buy a hybrid pickup truck. It does better than a regular pickup truck, but most sedans use less gas.

So why not charge people based on the EPA mileage figures for their cars, instead of targeting a particular class of vehicles?

Virginia just did this, to help pay for roads. They should just charge people based on odometer readings.


36 posted on 06/10/2013 11:12:19 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Grampa Dave
Yes... As to you splendid tagline... Them two been runnin on empty their whole worthless adult lives!!!

I see you're still not done futzin around with the interesting plays on words. (grin) I wondered how you'd handle the plural of "Pius" owners. Too funny fer words!!! (and really amping up the humor)

37 posted on 06/10/2013 11:18:31 AM PDT by SierraWasp ("Bitter Ender," "Bitter Clinger," Yes on both. COUNT ME IN!!! I love God and guns, but not gayness!!)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

“Why did you drive so many miles compared to last year? And where did you go and what was the purpose of the trip?” “Can you justify these additional miles which caused you to emit more CO2 than your permit allows?”


38 posted on 06/10/2013 11:19:35 AM PDT by rktman
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To: Mastador1

Do you remember when the states gave subsidies to people who drove big cars, because it wasn’t fair that they had low gas mileage and were therefore paying a lot more in gas tax?

nope, I don’t either. “fairness” is really just about the state being able to target a minority for a tax increase, so they can say the “average” person didn’t get a tax increase, defining “average” as “median”.

BTW, ignoring electric vehicles, which clearly pay NO gas tax, here is a list of some of the most fuel efficient cars, by class:

2-seater: Honda CR-Z
mini-compact: Scion iQ
subcompact: Chevrolet Spark
compact: Toyota Prius c Hybrid
midsize: Toyota Prius Hybrid
Large: Ford C-MAX Hybrid FWD
small wagon: Audi A3
small wagon: Volkswagen Jetta SportWagen
midsize wagon: Toyota Prius v

Only 4 of the 9 cars were hybrids. So taxing “hybrids” more because they pay less in gas tax isn’t “fair”, since in many cases regular cars are getting better gas mileage and paying less in gas tax.

Meanwhile, these taxes they add are fixed amounts yearly, which means the guy who owns a hybrid but rarely drives it will pay a lot more for the roads than they get out of the roads.


39 posted on 06/10/2013 11:23:30 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: rktman

I don’t like the idea, but it would be fairer than using the gas tax. I don’t care that the gas tax is not fair, since up until now, you could make choices that might raise or lower the tax you paid. Now they are targeting a subclass of those choices for punishment.

I always object to taxes that are applied unfairly to targeted populations, because the majority loves to tax the minority. Everybody should suffer equally the costs of our government. When the majority can collect the money for government from a minority, they won’t care how much government costs.


40 posted on 06/10/2013 11:26:52 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

so one imbalance does not justify another, I don’t know the answer but there has to be a better one.What always happens is the little guy gets squeezed. Just look at the toll lanes in Orange county,CA. They jack the rates up super high at rush hours, to keep the toll lanes moving don’t you know, and effectively prohibit lower income drivers from being able to access them.


41 posted on 06/10/2013 12:29:08 PM PDT by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: rktman

The chicken little fascists have a plan for this. They are going to put meters in cars in anticipation of charging a heavy tax by the mile you drive.


42 posted on 06/10/2013 2:08:29 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: rktman

Take that greenie-weenies!


43 posted on 06/10/2013 2:10:15 PM PDT by Fledermaus (The Republican Party is dead. Let's not pretend otherwise.)
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To: MrB

They are retarded tryants!


44 posted on 06/10/2013 2:11:18 PM PDT by Fledermaus (The Republican Party is dead. Let's not pretend otherwise.)
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To: cuban leaf

But the gas taxes are NOT used as intended. NO tax is.

Governments are out of control.


45 posted on 06/10/2013 2:12:58 PM PDT by Fledermaus (The Republican Party is dead. Let's not pretend otherwise.)
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To: rktman

The chicken little fascists have a plan for this. They are going to put (or have put in) meters in cars in anticipation of charging a heavy tax by the mile you drive.


46 posted on 06/10/2013 2:14:08 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: SaraJohnson

You don’t need meters in the cars. Just take down the mileage every year when the car tags are renewed.


47 posted on 06/10/2013 2:14:45 PM PDT by Fledermaus (The Republican Party is dead. Let's not pretend otherwise.)
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To: rktman

This is crazy. How can you pay a penalty for something you DON’T buy?


48 posted on 06/10/2013 2:14:58 PM PDT by johniegrad
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To: Oberon
The problem with taxing tires is that most tires are good for 40,000 to 50,000 miles, which may not all be driven in one city, county, or state. How do you pay for using the roads in Los Angeles if you bought the tires in Las Vegas?

-PJ

49 posted on 06/10/2013 2:23:10 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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To: Political Junkie Too
Why, it's simple... you wind up paying for the roads closest to where you live. Places with the highest population density will have the highest revenue, which is appropriate because they also have the most expensive upkeep for roads.

The free road upkeep you get by driving on roads in other areas is compensated by the free upkeep they get by driving on your roads. Best part is, if you don't want to support your local road maintenance efforts, just minimize your driving. Kind of like it is already with the gas tax.

50 posted on 06/10/2013 2:33:48 PM PDT by Oberon (Big Brutha Be Watchin'.)
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