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Sorry, China, But Native Americans Probably Aren't Hunanese
Foreign Policy ^ | Alicia P.Q. Wittmeyer

Posted on 06/24/2013 1:39:25 PM PDT by nickcarraway

China's Global Times - that reliable purveyor of the sublimely ridiculous, the terrifyingly nationalistic, and the just generally offensive -- struck again on Wednesday, with a quick nine-paragrapher that may just manage to combine all three offerings in one: "American Indians descend from Hunan, says expert."

The tabloid reports on the findings of Du Gangjian, dean of Hunan University Law School, who, on a recent trip to study Native American tribes in the United States (the article doesn't specify which ones), made the discovery that "American Indians have many rituals, habits and working tools that are very similar to the ones that exist among Hunan people."

(Excerpt) Read more at blog.foreignpolicy.com ...


TOPICS: History; Miscellaneous; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: globaltimes; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; hunan; nativeamericans; redchina
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1 posted on 06/24/2013 1:39:25 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

I guess it’s time for a new movement...return America to the Chinese!

/s needed for the few


2 posted on 06/24/2013 1:45:17 PM PDT by PoloSec ( Believe the Gospel: how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again)
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To: nickcarraway
Probably not. One of my early teachers was a grizzled old Sioux with a college degree who was quite skeptical of the Bering Straight theory of migration.

If true, he asked, why wouldn't archeologists find evidence of older and more developed civilizations in Alaska, British Columbia and the Northwest and newer, more rudimentary civilizations as the migration route turned south? Instead, we find exactly the opposite.

I could never answer his question though I tend to think the Bering Straight might account for some of the migration, just not all of it.

3 posted on 06/24/2013 1:46:19 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: nickcarraway

What a crock! Everybody knows American Indians are Russian in origin, and the Russians discovered America, and Russians invented the boat and the automobile and indoor plumbing and anti-biotics, and Russians invented...


4 posted on 06/24/2013 1:47:23 PM PDT by Standing Wolf
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To: Vigilanteman
If true, he asked, why wouldn't archeologists find evidence of older and more developed civilizations in Alaska, British Columbia and the Northwest and newer, more rudimentary civilizations as the migration route turned south? Instead, we find exactly the opposite.

One explanation that occurs to me is that the crossers did not stop in Alaska, because of the inhospitable climate. People who lived there were naturally living at a subsistence level.

5 posted on 06/24/2013 1:49:32 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: Vigilanteman
One of my early teachers was a grizzled old Sioux with a college degree who was quite skeptical of the Bering Straight theory of migration

The South Pacific islander route and theory is well known as a colonization theory for South and Central America.

As for North American aboriginals, it's not a stretch to say they were probably descended from Bering Strait crossers.

All will come out in the wash with deeper understanding of both Y and mT DNA haplotypes.

6 posted on 06/24/2013 1:52:48 PM PDT by Regulator
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To: Vigilanteman

Where did he think his people came from?


7 posted on 06/24/2013 1:55:31 PM PDT by Blackyce (President Jacques Chirac: "As far as I'm concerned, war always The reason it was easymeans failure.")
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To: nickcarraway

Alaska, yes. But you have some pretty mild climates in the Pacific Northwest and all the way down the California coast. The Chumash tribe, centered around present day Santa Barbara, never put up anything even close to the Inca, Maya, Aztec, Toltec and a score of others further south.


8 posted on 06/24/2013 1:55:46 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Vigilanteman

A friend who is Hopi/Paiute and a tribal elder says they came west from Florida not south from the Bering Strait.


9 posted on 06/24/2013 1:59:40 PM PDT by Duchess47 ("One day I will leave this world and dream myself to Reality" Crazy Horse)
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To: Blackyce
See post #6. Various theories abound. Transoceaninc migrations are among the most popular. And not just the Pacific route. In the case of Siouxian tribes, it is known that they were in the Ohio Valley about 1400 a.d. and chose different routes into what is now the central United States.

Before that, they were probably in the James River area of Virginia and driven north and west by more aggressive tribes. Remarkably similar to early European settler migration patterns.

10 posted on 06/24/2013 2:03:49 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Vigilanteman

But that would imply that people built the most elaborate culture at the first place they stopped. I am saying it is more geopolitical. That region of Central America seemed optimal to them and allowed them to build a more elaborate civilization. Why was their no Greece or Rome in Scandinavia?


11 posted on 06/24/2013 2:06:20 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

This is all malarkey. American Indians are known to actually be the descendants of the original refugees from Mars shortly before that planet became uninhabitable!


12 posted on 06/24/2013 2:06:33 PM PDT by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for anti-American criminals!!)
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To: nickcarraway
There were various movements into 'America'.

The Atlantic Ocean via Continental Ice, pre clovis[Think Picard].

S. America has findings going back 30K bce, S. Carolina at the Topper site some 50k, bce.

As of now, then only 'things' from China[India, Nepal as well]that I know are the Red Panda, only occurring[found remains] in Washington and Tennessee.

13 posted on 06/24/2013 2:08:06 PM PDT by Theoria
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To: nickcarraway

“...that reliable purveyor of the sublimely ridiculous, the terrifyingly nationalistic, and the just generally offensive — struck again on Wednesday, with a quick nine-paragrapher that may just manage to combine all three offerings in one:...”

Great bit of writing in that line.


14 posted on 06/24/2013 2:11:23 PM PDT by pallis
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To: Vigilanteman

Cause they wouldn’t have lasted too long had they lingered in the Alaska? Cause those who stayed became the Eskimos/Inuit/etc., who don’t have a big cultural footprint to this day?

What would the alternate theory be?


15 posted on 06/24/2013 2:11:55 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: nickcarraway

If the tools are similar, the Hunan people need to move into the 21st century...


16 posted on 06/24/2013 2:11:59 PM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: Duchess47

And where did he think those Floridians came from?


17 posted on 06/24/2013 2:13:00 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: PoloSec

“I guess it’s time for a new movement...return America to the Chinese!”

That’ll really P-O the Mexicans!


18 posted on 06/24/2013 2:16:31 PM PDT by READINABLUESTATE (“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever.” - Orwell)
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To: Vigilanteman
“... you have some pretty mild climates in the Pacific Northwest and all the way down the California coast...”

Now we do. Thirteen thousand years ago the ice sheets extended all the way down to the present location of Seattle, and there was a mighty river that flowed from the ice sheet in that location, down to present-day Aberdeen, on Grays Harbor bay.

The Pacific coastline thirteen thousand years ago extended out 26 miles from the present day coastline, and there was land between present-day Alaska and Siberia. Migrants would have followed the coastal plain down to the Columbia River which gave access to the eastern plains of present day Washington and Oregon, but that was risky as flooding occurred regularly. See; Catastrophes on The Columbia, which explains why the mammoths, woolly rhinoceros and horses disappeared from the area. Over a period of five thousand years there were periodical floods resulting from the ancient Lake Missoula emptying.

19 posted on 06/24/2013 2:18:58 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: nickcarraway
Not necessarily. But they would settle and tend to build up their civilization in an area which they found most hospitable on the route from their ancestral homelands.

Case in point would be the Comanche, a branch of the Shoshone tribe which originated in the Wind River area of central Wyoming. Their mastery of horsemanship was a game changer which allowed them to conquer most of what is now Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Colorado and New Mexico. While this did not keep them from ranging outside their normal homeland including northern Mexico, eastern Texas, Arizona, Utah, the Nebraska panhandle and even their ancestral homelands in Wyoming, it did encourage them to center their civilization in that area which they felt most suitable, namely the Texas panhandle.

By any measure, there are thousands of square miles of hospitable climate from the Pacific Northwest all the way down to the northern frontiers of Aztec civilization, none of which produced the advanced levels of settlement as the tribes named in the previous post.

As to your question 'why was their no Greece or Rome in Scandinavia?', the simple answer is the ancestral Vikings never produced a level of civilization even close to comparable until they came in contact with more advanced civilizations.

It is an argument you really can't make if you subscribe to the Bering Straight migration theory (exclusively or even mainly) as everyone is following basically the same route and, thus, contact would be inevitable.

20 posted on 06/24/2013 2:25:12 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: nickcarraway

The author of “The Zuni Enigma” thinks there might be a connection with Japan, not Hunan.


21 posted on 06/24/2013 2:26:38 PM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
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To: Duchess47
Interesting. The Piute, as you probably know, are a branch of the Ute whereas the Hopi are related to the Pueblo group (including Zuni). Both consider themselves as a more advanced civilization than their neighbors such as the Apache or Navajo, who likely were driven to survive by raiding their neighbors after being driven out of their ancestral homelands to the south and east, probably by tribes escaping the advance of the Aztec.

First I have heard about the Florida route, though I would not utterly discount it. What a lot of people fail to realize is that oceanic navigation skills will be quickly lost after a couple of generations on non-use by migrating civilizations.

22 posted on 06/24/2013 2:36:00 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: PoloSec; Jim Robinson
I guess it’s time for a new movement...return America to the Chinese!


23 posted on 06/24/2013 2:37:01 PM PDT by GraceG
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To: Flag_This
The author of “The Zuni Enigma” thinks there might be a connection with Japan, not Hunan.

Also an interesting theory and not without merit. There are a lot of similarities between ancient Japanese pictographs and those of American tribes like the Zuni and even the Sioux.

24 posted on 06/24/2013 2:38:21 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: GraceG
It means they gotta take San Francisco.

I'm looking for a downside here. Looking...

25 posted on 06/24/2013 2:40:17 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Vigilanteman
If true, he asked, why wouldn't archeologists find evidence of older and more developed civilizations in Alaska, British Columbia and the Northwest and newer, more rudimentary civilizations as the migration route turned south? Instead, we find exactly the opposite.

Ultimately the land in the far north can't support huge populations of people, that's why you find the initial civilizations nearer the equator, in very fertile lands.

So people came through the Bering Straits, and some kept on trucking to more amenable climes were their populations boomed.

26 posted on 06/24/2013 3:10:42 PM PDT by Gunslingr3
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To: nickcarraway
I have heard that Native American tribes' names for themselves often mean "the Human Beings." (I think that's in Little Big Man--hard to beat that as an authoritative source.) Maybe that is a mistake for "the Hunan Beings."

One way to test it would be to see how much MSG is used in Native American cooking.

27 posted on 06/24/2013 3:11:16 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: nickcarraway

Anyone who thinks a 40 mile sea lane is a barrier is one who is completely ignorant of boats, sailing and sailors.

It probably was quite busy during the summer months. Sheesh.


28 posted on 06/24/2013 3:11:50 PM PDT by buffaloguy
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To: Vigilanteman

Remember the Kennewick Man controversy. Although scientists said the remains were not related to any present-day Indians of the area, the local tribes claimed that they had aleays lived there and had never immigrated from anywhere else, so those 9000(?)-year-old bones had to be of one of their ancestors...and the Clinton administration supported their claim


29 posted on 06/24/2013 3:13:52 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Vigilanteman

That’s very interesting. It seems there is evidence (and always has been) for a multi-factorial answer to the question of American Indian origins. And your experience conforms to my reading, that it’s not the American Indians who reject this - it’s their vocal, mostly white, ‘advocates’, who insist on the single origin Bering Strait story.


30 posted on 06/24/2013 3:31:51 PM PDT by OldNewYork (Biden '13. Impeach now.)
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To: 9YearLurker

I don’t know. We were talking about something else and he just mentioned that. I didn’t ask him for an explanation.


31 posted on 06/24/2013 4:35:28 PM PDT by Duchess47 ("One day I will leave this world and dream myself to Reality" Crazy Horse)
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To: Vigilanteman

You guys have me interested now, I’ll have to ask him for more information on tribal lore next time I see him or his son.


32 posted on 06/24/2013 4:37:23 PM PDT by Duchess47 ("One day I will leave this world and dream myself to Reality" Crazy Horse)
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To: nickcarraway

Another hag ranting fallacies about racial vanities and jealousies seen from all sides. If a resemblance is obvious, deal with it. ;-)


33 posted on 06/24/2013 5:13:47 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Flag_This
"The author of “The Zuni Enigma” thinks there might be a connection with Japan, not Hunan."

And Chinese originally settled in Japan to become Japanese. So, same thing, eh? ;-)

What's important is that American Indians should visit China and go to any restaurant first to introduce themselves. Complain about the food, refuse to pay for it and start the customary brawl (as seen in movies). ;-)


34 posted on 06/24/2013 5:18:25 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: nickcarraway

Ah, another thing...original Indian wrestling, “pushing hands,” same thing. Duh. ;-)


35 posted on 06/24/2013 5:22:14 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Elsie

DNA Ping Chinese Mormons


36 posted on 06/24/2013 5:23:13 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: nickcarraway

Dang!

The Chinese are becoming MORMON!


37 posted on 06/25/2013 4:58:23 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: nickcarraway
People who lived there were naturally living at a subsistence level.

At that time; who WASN'T!!

38 posted on 06/25/2013 4:59:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Blackyce
Where did he think his people came from?

Turtles; all the way down.

39 posted on 06/25/2013 5:00:21 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Theoria
The Atlantic Ocean via Continental Ice, pre clovis[Think Picard].

Indeed!

They were going where no man had gone before!

40 posted on 06/25/2013 5:01:30 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: 9YearLurker
And where did he think those Floridians came from?

New Yawk?

Via Israel?

41 posted on 06/25/2013 5:02:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Verginius Rufus
Remember the Kennewick Man controversy.

Sure do!!!



42 posted on 06/25/2013 5:06:03 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Utah Binger

Like a moth to a flame...

ELSIE rides to the rescue.


43 posted on 06/25/2013 5:07:41 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Utah Binger

I love the smell of a mixed metaphor in the morning!


44 posted on 06/25/2013 5:08:22 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Able to leap tall assumptions in a single bound...


45 posted on 06/25/2013 5:09:33 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
Sheeple have burning in the bosom.


46 posted on 06/25/2013 5:24:05 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: Elsie

Ha. But of course—where else do Floridians come from!?!


47 posted on 06/25/2013 5:34:17 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: 9YearLurker

UHhhh...

...my toothpaste?


48 posted on 06/25/2013 5:34:54 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Utah Binger

Don’t you have an irrigation ditch to divert this morning?


49 posted on 06/25/2013 5:35:33 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

As long as they’re not coming out of your tap.


50 posted on 06/25/2013 5:37:22 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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