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Rock River Arms versus Armalite for first AR-15 (Vanity)

Posted on 06/25/2013 10:47:46 AM PDT by Patriot95

I was just wondering if I could get some Freeper advice on the first AR-15 purchase. I've heard great things about both, but would appreciate any input from those with multiple ARs.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Hobbies; Outdoors
KEYWORDS: ar15; banglist; guncontrol; secondamendment
Sorry for the vanity, but I figure FR is the best place for advice and people know their stuff.
1 posted on 06/25/2013 10:47:46 AM PDT by Patriot95
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To: Patriot95
Buy one of each and tell us what you think :-)

2 posted on 06/25/2013 10:49:59 AM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: Patriot95

Has anyone any experience, or “know somebody” who has,

completed an 80% AR 15 lower and built the rifle up from there?


3 posted on 06/25/2013 10:51:17 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Patriot95
All the manufactures buy parts off the open market and assemble them. Buy the parts yourself and assemble it. The only part that requires an FFA to get involved is the receiver.

Build your own AR-15 Rifle for $560-$580

DIY AR-15 Build: Introduction, Parts and Tools Required

A little web searching will get you a lot more info.

4 posted on 06/25/2013 10:51:32 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Who could have guessed that one day pro wrestling would be less fake than network news?)
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To: BitWielder1; Patriot95
Buy one of each and tell us what you think :-)

Yeah. Sorry, but starting a vanity on this pretty much obligates you to buy them both. It's a new forum rule I just made up. ;-)

5 posted on 06/25/2013 10:53:19 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Patriot95
I owned a Rock River Arms LAR-15 complete with EOTECH scope, bi-pod and grip.

FANTASTIC rifle to shoot. Accurate as all heck. Easy to clean (as AR-15's go.) The quality and craftsmanship of the Rock River is second to none. Absolutely loved it - until I took it on a fishing trip with me and ... well, boat capsized and it went to the bottom of the lake.

Just damn' I'm going to miss it.

6 posted on 06/25/2013 10:54:24 AM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: Patriot95

Armalite > Rock River

But, here are the top tier ARs:

Noveske, La Rue, BMC, LMT, and Colt, Barret, maybe Daniel Defense and Spikes

Good mid Tier

PSA, S&W, Rock River, Ruger sr 556

Junktastical
Oly Arms, DPMS,


7 posted on 06/25/2013 10:54:48 AM PDT by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: Patriot95

You do realize any comment on this post tells the government about your firearm capabilities and future abilities to arm yourself and others?

This is NOT a secure public forum where this subject should be discussed.

Loose lips will sink ships.


8 posted on 06/25/2013 10:55:20 AM PDT by PotatoChop (Respect is earned, not demanded by this out of control socialist government!)
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To: 3Fingas

I forgot. Armalite is in the mid tier IMHO


9 posted on 06/25/2013 10:56:01 AM PDT by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: Patriot95

Unfortunately, gun posts like this will garner very little interest or responses on FR. So you’re probably on your own here. Also, everyone will be in complete agreement on what you should do, so the few people responding will all just tell you the same thing... ;)

Seriously, though, I have a RRA and the quality is terrific. I’m sure the Armalite is great quality as well, but don’t have one. The Colt and SigSauer ARs are really great also. The Colt M4 that’s factory equipped with all the Magpul accessories costs a bit more, but is a sweet AR at a good price.


10 posted on 06/25/2013 11:01:11 AM PDT by Fletcher J
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To: Patriot95

You will have quality problems with neither. I recommend buying the cheaper model of the barrel length you want, and adding full magpul plastics, a PWS Muzzle brake, and a JP trigger.


11 posted on 06/25/2013 11:11:19 AM PDT by SENTINEL (Kneel down to God. Stand up to tyrants. STICK TO YOUR GUNS !)
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To: 3Fingas

Add Core 15 to your list. Haven’t been able to shoot it yet, but it won’t accept some pmags while accepting others.

I’m pretty confident in pmag manufacturing quality.


12 posted on 06/25/2013 11:41:09 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: SENTINEL
It sounds like you are price sensitive...but since its your first..buy one..then you will learn what is good and bad...then buy another..and another...and another....make sure you run the ammo thru it too...1000´s of rounds...don´t be afraid to train..or to learn...go to a range and get er done...so in the dark of night ..you are not afraid to pick it up and use it in a defensive mode if need be...its your life...
13 posted on 06/25/2013 11:42:08 AM PDT by Youngman542012
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To: PotatoChop

There’s that point of view,

but there’s also the point of view of

“there are 55 million of us - don’t try it.”


14 posted on 06/25/2013 11:44:53 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Patriot95
I think Rock River has surpassed Armalite for any rifles made after 2005.

You should really consider making your own. It's not mechanically difficult, you learn a lot about your rifle and it only requires tools that every AR owner should have for maintenance. You can either save money or increase reliability by rolling your own for the same amount as complete rifles from major builders. Barrel and trigger are where you should spend the most followed by bolt, upper receiver, then lower receiver. Make sure the rail is free float but otherwise it should be task oriented.

Optics/irons are a whole other story. Some would suggest you get used to irons but I'm leaning away from that now. Dual optics (scope and off-set dot) just offer far too many advantages to ignore. If you do decide on a scope buy the best you can afford that suits how you will most use the rifle. I've seen people put 1k+ scopes on ARs they only plink with, and others put 50 dollar knock offs on rifles they intend for self defense. Simple common sense suggests a happy medium.
IMO Satern barrels are the best followed by Noveske, Krieger, etc. For a decent value barrel I would suggest Rainier arms. For triggers it's hard to suggest anything other than Giselle but there are some decent alternatives I guess.

15 posted on 06/25/2013 11:45:47 AM PDT by Durus (You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. Ayn Rand)
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To: driftdiver

Yes, I have heard some bad things about their quality control.

Some other brands I forgot to mention in the mid tier:
Windham Rifles are trending upwards
Bushmaster is trending downwards

I personally own two S&W ARs. I am happy with them. I got them with $100 Veteran’s rebate, a good buy for the value. S&W has the best customer service in the business. Colt’s customer service is terrible, but you usually don’t have any problems with a Colt AR.


16 posted on 06/25/2013 11:47:25 AM PDT by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: Billthedrill
Hi guy.

Sorry, but starting a vanity on this pretty much obligates you to buy them both. It's a new forum rule I just made up.

I like your new rule. Almost as good as the CZJ pics with a Dowd column.

5.56mm

17 posted on 06/25/2013 11:48:26 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: Durus

“Bolt” should really read BCA (bolt carrier assembly). NP3 coated BCAs minimise the most commonly held flaw (residue buildup then jamming) of the AR platform.


18 posted on 06/25/2013 11:51:26 AM PDT by Durus (You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. Ayn Rand)
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To: Patriot95

I enjoy my Stag Arms


19 posted on 06/25/2013 11:53:51 AM PDT by garykfd (American by Birth, Southern by the Grace of God)
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To: PotatoChop

The government spent quite a bit of money on teaching me to fire their weapons. I think the records they DO have show me to be much more proficient than I am today. Should I write about what a crappy shot I am...so they can adjust their files?


20 posted on 06/25/2013 11:54:49 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?)
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To: Patriot95

You didn’t explain the purpose/usage of your firearm purchase. For personal defense, an AK47 is very reliable. or so I’m told.-)


21 posted on 06/25/2013 11:55:21 AM PDT by BipolarBob
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To: BipolarBob
He's already made the choice of platform and picked the clearly superior one in a clear sign of good taste and breeding. Let's not confuse matters with a commie knock off of a nazi rifle.
22 posted on 06/25/2013 12:11:26 PM PDT by Durus (You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. Ayn Rand)
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To: Fletcher J

Walmart has gotten in new shipments of Colt and Sig ARs. Definitely worth the money.

For those interested, I bought a pair of hearing aids. They cost as much as THREE Colt rifles.

Bummer.


23 posted on 06/25/2013 12:24:40 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: Durus

Opinions are like elbows. Everyone’s got one.


24 posted on 06/25/2013 12:26:24 PM PDT by BipolarBob
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To: Patriot95

I saw a Palmetto Armory M4 with aimpoint pro optics for 999$ on their website.


25 posted on 06/25/2013 12:29:08 PM PDT by DainBramage
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To: Patriot95

I suggest considering a Ruger Mini14 Tactical with collapsible stock, flash suppressor and rails. It can take any 0.223 cal loads, but also NATO 5.56mm, which makes it versatile. You can buy 10, 20 and 30rd magazines for it. It is rugged and less expensive than an AR15. Plus it looks baaad.....


26 posted on 06/25/2013 12:46:09 PM PDT by astounded (Barack Obama is a clear and present danger to the USA)
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To: PotatoChop

Well, you are certainly correct, but I guess it holds....FUNSA. Oh, and by the way...FUBO.


27 posted on 06/25/2013 12:47:28 PM PDT by astounded (Barack Obama is a clear and present danger to the USA)
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To: BipolarBob

Not everyone has elbows unfortunately. Regardless...just like elbows, not all opinions are equal.


28 posted on 06/25/2013 12:59:30 PM PDT by Durus (You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. Ayn Rand)
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To: Patriot95

Dude get a Windham HBC. For the dollar they are about the best AR out there right now. You can pick one up at Academy Sports right now for about $900. We have one and its sweet.

When we took it apart there were no machine marks, tolerances were very tight, bolt carrier is M-4 full auto style, and overall its just a very clean tight weapon.


29 posted on 06/25/2013 1:00:35 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Patriot95
Armalite had an issue when many other mfg's were refusing to sell to "authorities" in states that were trying to deny their citizenry possession of such weaponry. And some kindof snarky response from the Armalite PTB to the "unwashed" of the "gun culture". There was a stink about it on ARFcom. I'm sure it can be found with a search. Not sure what RRA's stance was on that, but hard to beat'em for a middle-of-the-road AR. I've had many different mfg's offerings in the AR platform. Whatever you get, don't cheap out on the trigger. Those mil-spec gravelly, get-out-a-comealong triggers suck and will ruin an otherwise accurate platform.

I personally prefer a Noveske/Geissele combo. But then again I'm somewhat of a gear-ho'. d:^)

30 posted on 06/25/2013 1:09:31 PM PDT by CopperTop
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

ping for later


31 posted on 06/25/2013 1:26:28 PM PDT by chuckles
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To: Patriot95; Georgia Girl 2
Georgia Girl 2 is right in post 29... Get the Windham. I am a FFL retail gun store owner and have dealt with all of them. I am also a tactical trainer for several law enforcment agencies. Because of that, I have witnessed the performance of all of these AR's over a period of weeks under constant fire during different courses.

In my opinion, the best buy on the market when it comes to direct gas impingement AR's is the Windham. It comes with a lifetime warranty. They don't care if you are the first owner of the fifteenth - lifetime warranty means lifetime warranty. You can spend more money on an direct gas AR, but you won't get a better one.

32 posted on 06/25/2013 1:45:39 PM PDT by Raven6 (Psalm 144:1 and Proverbs 22:3)
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To: Raven6

BTW... Support your local gun shop! When the chips were down, Academy and and Dick’s pulled their AR’s off the shelves. If your gun (not under warranty) breaks, they can’t help you... Local gun shops are the last place left were you can get something fixed without having to send the firearm off to the manufacturer.


33 posted on 06/25/2013 1:51:09 PM PDT by Raven6 (Psalm 144:1 and Proverbs 22:3)
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To: Youngman542012

Wrong guy... But +1 on the training $ over high end AR for #1. It’s not the 90’s anymore, finding an undependable AR is the exception these days rather than the norm.


34 posted on 06/25/2013 2:04:44 PM PDT by SENTINEL (Kneel down to God. Stand up to tyrants. STICK TO YOUR GUNS !)
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To: Raven6
In my opinion, the best buy on the market when it comes to direct gas impingement AR's is the Windham. It comes with a lifetime warranty.

Just for the record, Rock River Arms guarantees their AR-15's for life also. (One of the many reasons I chose them over other AR-15's.) BTW: DHS purchases Rock River Arms exclusively, or so I've read...

35 posted on 06/25/2013 2:08:05 PM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: Patriot95

The DPMS Sportical with a couple add-ons is a dependable 16”AR-15. A local shop here has them right now for only $639. I have several upgraded with full Magpul plastics (stock, grip, forend), a PWS Muzzle Brake, and JP Competition trigger with DUTY springs. Very good bang for the buck.


36 posted on 06/25/2013 2:13:41 PM PDT by SENTINEL (Kneel down to God. Stand up to tyrants. STICK TO YOUR GUNS !)
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To: astounded

Federations of United Nations Staff Associations (FUNSA)

Right?


37 posted on 06/25/2013 2:50:40 PM PDT by B4Ranch (AGENDA: Grinding America Down ----- http://vimeo.com/63749370)
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To: Patriot95
Here watch this.

Youtube vid:

Rock River Arms AR15 Review by Nutnfancy

"Uploaded on Feb 26, 2012

RRA produces some of the best high value AR-15 variants in the world. They are extraordinarily accurate, reliable, and long lasting. In this in-depth review vid, I address my thoughts on "mil-spec" and Rock River's departure from it. The QA portion of the spec is desirable but adds substantial cost and it generally overkill for the average AR user. It also limits features to those determined by US Government committees...a bad thing. The civilian market has long been where the best guns are made. Some forum elitists may balk at the materials of the Rock Rivers and features but few have extensive experience with the type and therefore their criticisms ring carry no weight with me. Granted, on paper, the 4140 steel 1/9 twist Wylde chambered barrels, commercial buffer tubes, non-HP/MPI bolt carrier, lack of barrel chroming, and other mil-spec departures may seem disappointing. But that's on paper. Shot for over SEVEN years before this review, RRA AR-15s (LAR-15s) have been stellar performers under hard TNP testing. The Elite Operator2 and Entry Tactical, wearing a few modifications of my own (discussed), achieved 1 MOA groups with STANDARD BALL ammo. With premium 77 gr Fiocchi Match Kings, the groups shrunk to 1/2 inch. Keep in mind these are tactical carbine variations of the LAR-15, not target rifles with overly thick barrels. Most high end AR-15s, piston or DI, have failed to achieve this accuracy. And this accuracy testing came only after many 1000s of rounds shot in TNP tactical drills as well. You're getting a lot of gun for your money. Features included in most models add to the value and the guns' excellent ergonomics: 2-stage RRA match trigger (excellent), star selector, RRA gas block/folding front sight, RRA CAR Operator stock, Ergo or Hogue grip, RRA Tactical Muzzle Break (effective, I would not change it out if I were you), included iron sights, winter trigger guard, and choice of forends. Current generations of the RRA Half Quad rails (discussed) are too thick and heavy (17 oz) but they're getting better. The RRA Quad rail is currently too bulkiy and old school to be attractive however; avoid it. Application of the industry leading Troy Industries Alpha rail will lighten the gun, make it easier to grab, and faster into action. Reliablity, not attributable to ammo, was 100% with both steel and brass cased rounds, all brands fired. Weights are manageable for their configurations and the excellent heavier barrel profiles Rock River uses. Many models exist and you can choose your choice of barrel, grips, stocks, and accessories but these are my two favorite (add in the ATH Carbine as well with its cryo'd SS barrel). The receivers and internals are the same. Value is excellent for these stellar performers which I feel set standards for the high value AR market. Other great options exist which achieve the same as well. Unless you are sponsored shooter and run them as rentals, chances are you will never wear out these guns in normal use. We didn't. //////////////////////Nutnfancy Likability Scale: 9 out 10 for most models; with my mods as shown: 10 out of 10. Highest rec'd model is the Rock River Arms Elite Operator2 or ATH Carbine model for most POUs/////////////////////Music by MSquare Recordings, licensed with permission "

38 posted on 06/25/2013 4:12:40 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Patriot95
I have them both. An Armalite LEC15A4, law enforcement carbine and a Rock River Standard A4 with a 20 inch stainless barrel and a low profile gas block, no sights.

Both are good, well made guns and haven't given me any problems.

The Armalite comes with a chrome lined barrel and a 2 stage trigger, the Rock River you have to order ala-carte.

If you want a Rock River AR, be prepared to wait at least 3 months.

If you get a chance, look at a Sig. My brother bought one and it's a nice gun too.

To my friendly NSA watchdogs: UP YOURS. And you can tell your jug eared Kenyan boss he can go F*** himself too.

39 posted on 06/25/2013 4:56:15 PM PDT by metalurgist ( Want your country back? It'll take guns and rope. Marxists won't give up peaceably.)
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To: usconservative

Yes, RRA got the DHS contract... and the DEA contract. And they build a good weapon. I sold over 160 of them just on weekends during the summer of 2008. I personally own 3 of them, along with several other brands. But I’ve not been as impressed with their product as of late when compared to their product even as late as 1 year ago. Not sure what is going on at RRA, but something is not working the same as it was just a short time ago.


40 posted on 06/25/2013 7:38:41 PM PDT by Raven6 (Psalm 144:1 and Proverbs 22:3)
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To: BipolarBob; Durus

AKs are cool too, but unfortunately my AK is at the bottom of the pond from the canoeing accident.


41 posted on 06/26/2013 3:38:08 AM PDT by Patriot95
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To: Raven6

I can see your point. Mines about 18 months old. I’ve had it apart for cleaning several times and I’ve been impressed at the build quality, tight fit of all components and complete absence of any machine marks.

Guess it happens to the best of em when they get too big and rush to fill contracts, that’s when quality suffers.


42 posted on 06/26/2013 5:32:09 AM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: B4Ranch

Correct.....LOL


43 posted on 06/26/2013 8:45:53 AM PDT by astounded (Barack Obama is a clear and present danger to the USA)
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To: Patriot95

For a lot less money, especially compared to a first AR, why not a really nice AK?

Waffen Works has a very nice bulgarian AK74 semi auto that shoots the very inexpensive 5.45x39, still can be found for less than 20 cents a round.
Last I checked 5.56 is close to a dollar a round.

Even if you do get an AR, you can have a lot of cheap fun with an AK.

http://youtu.be/_nf54SR4Utw


44 posted on 06/27/2013 2:15:06 PM PDT by Wildbill22 (They have us surrounded again, the poor bastards- Gen Creighton Williams Abrams)
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