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Social Security: Retirement fund or nanny
self

Posted on 06/29/2013 8:42:26 AM PDT by xkaydet65

I received a phone call from American Express a few minutes ago telling me that Social Security had notified them of my wife's recent, three weeks ago, passing, and that they were cancelling her card and what payment arrangements did I wish to make. I hintend to deal with her cards and our accounts but for the life of me I can't comprehend what Social Security is doing passing bnews of her death to private institutions. Where in the law does SSS get this authority. Tea Party Patriot that my wife was, she would be outraged at this example of govt intrusion and overreach.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Conspiracy; Society
KEYWORDS: bogus; creditcards; nannystate; scam; socialsecurity; surveillance; vanity

1 posted on 06/29/2013 8:42:26 AM PDT by xkaydet65
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To: xkaydet65

My condolences upon the passing of your wife.

Is it a matter of public record when someone passes away, and are records such as Social Security public knowledge? I don’t know; just asking the question. It seems odd that American Express would contact you in this manner.


2 posted on 06/29/2013 8:44:49 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: xkaydet65

My condolences upon the passing of your wife.

Is it a matter of public record when someone passes away, and are records such as Social Security public knowledge? I don’t know; just asking the question. It seems odd that American Express would contact you in this manner.


3 posted on 06/29/2013 8:45:25 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: xkaydet65

Social security death records are public. I can’t imagine the SS administration calling up credit cards. My guess is that credit card companies monitor this public information via their own computer programs because of the likelihood of potential fraud using a deceased person’s credit cards. It’s easier for the cc company to blame that SSA than to admit their own actions.


4 posted on 06/29/2013 8:51:10 AM PDT by ConstantSkeptic (Be careful about preconceptions)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

Public record, of course, but does the recording agent then have the right to send out this info to any and all financial institutions? My real estate taxes are a matter of public record but Nassau County does not send them to any and all law firms interested in getting me to retain them to reduce my taxes. Those firms must be proactive and seek the info. The caller told me notice of my wife’s death has been sent to credit card companies, banks, and lending institutions for them to match against their records. That goes somewhat beyond allowing access to public inf.


5 posted on 06/29/2013 8:51:49 AM PDT by xkaydet65
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To: xkaydet65

A reminder, only integrity and self values holds you responsible for your wife’s debts if you are not on her account. That said, I’d pay my wife’s debts if she owed them on her death.

As far as the Social Security Administration goes, they can go pound sand. I would not provide them anything of any nature. They would not exist in my mind. eff them.


6 posted on 06/29/2013 8:52:11 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Gaffer

make sure it is not a scam. My son’s cc companies wiped the record clean since she was the principle card holder. American Express may be different but I would check with them directly.


7 posted on 06/29/2013 8:54:30 AM PDT by glm
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To: xkaydet65

Sorry to hear about your wife.As to your question I’m 99% certain that SS death records are considered,under law,to be open to the public.If I’m correct then it would be easy,I would think,for a credit card company to scan these records regularly in order to prevent fraud,etc.I know that when I was the executor of my Dad’s estate the lawyer said that the first thing I had to do was officially inform SS of his passing so they could stop benefits.I was given some forms to sign and shorty after having done so his monthly checks stopped arriving.


8 posted on 06/29/2013 8:55:17 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (The Civil Servants Are No Longer Servants...Or Civil.)
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To: xkaydet65

Social Security updates the death master file on a weekly basis. Credit bureaus subscribe to this data and likely flag accounts of the deceased in case someone tries to use the cards or establish new accounts post mortem.


9 posted on 06/29/2013 8:56:07 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Electorate data confirms Resolute Conservative voted for Soetoro)
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To: xkaydet65
Condolences on the loss of your wife.

Of course it must hurt that the credit card company contacts you with a request like this so soon. The alternative is worse, however. A person's financial life is so complicated today that it's very difficult to stay on top of every bill and obligation. It doesn't take long before credit hounding, foreclosures, cancellations for late payment start.

Best wishes getting through all of this.

10 posted on 06/29/2013 8:56:52 AM PDT by grania
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To: xkaydet65

Prayers and sympathy.

Are you sure it was American Express that contacted you? There are crooks who get death announcements from the newspaper and do scams on the family. If it was indeed them, then I agree what business is it of SS notifying anyone?!? What was their attitude toward you?

It seems we’re going to be getting more flak from credit card companies and I suspect it’s all related to the NSA snoops. It won’t be just the cards, either. It’ll be EVERYTHING in our lives. This week, I had a very strange call from my card company. They’d been hunting me a couple days so I called them on their published number. Immediately, without me even asking them why they’d been calling, they jumped right into a spiel and started bullying me about setting up an online account and threatened that if my payment was ever late that they’d put a block on my card. Say what??? I’ve been with them forever and I do pay my bill. I’d never been treated like this from them. Whatever happened with customer service? I’m still floored by their attitude and how did the person know immediately to do this? If they wanted to lose a long time customer, they certainly made it very easy. It made me a believer in cash only purchases for now on. It was all very strange and creepy.


11 posted on 06/29/2013 8:57:58 AM PDT by bgill (This reply was mined before it was posted.)
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To: xkaydet65
My dad died on Halloween, 25 years ago. Four days later, my mom calls me, hysterical. We'd been with her pretty much all the time, so I figured it was just more grief. She'd just come back from the bank, and the government had already reversed my dad's social security check. Back in those days, all SS checks went out on the 1st of the month, and if you had signed up for direct deposit, the money was in your account the day before, i.e. the 31st.

Amazing how efficient Uncle can be..yet today, decades later, with all the new computer technology, the IRS can mail out thousands of fraudulent refunds to the same address, and not notice that something's wrong..

12 posted on 06/29/2013 8:58:40 AM PDT by ken5050 (Due to all the WH scandals, MSNBC is changing its slogan from "Lean Forward" to "BOHICA")
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To: xkaydet65

I wonder if this is a recent new practice? My wife passed away in 2008. We had credit card bills, some joint and some in her name only, joint ownership of our house, property taxes, and other obligations. At that time, I was not contacted in this manner by anyone indicating that they knew she had passed away. I am surprised that this happened to you.


13 posted on 06/29/2013 8:59:36 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: glm

Very good advice.


14 posted on 06/29/2013 9:01:21 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: xkaydet65
so sorry about your loss....thoughts and prayers....

yeah....just why AXP has your wife's info is beyond me...

in reality, haven't we always known that the govt and the financial companies and banks and big business were all in cahots?......one of these days, I'm hoping to be completely credit card free and only use cash....

15 posted on 06/29/2013 9:03:25 AM PDT by cherry
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To: xkaydet65

Condolences upon your wife’s passing.

This sounds bogus.

Don’t talk to whoever called you. They may want to get your bank info, etc. It’s a definite scam — that’s why they wanted to know your payment arrangements, trying to get SS No and bank info. I bet if you call AmEx at the number YOU have for them, that’s on the card, they will tell you they did NOT make that call.

The credit card company would send you something in writing, not call you up like this.

Also — I presume you most likely had a joint account, so then you can make the payments as you have been doing. But in any case, they would send you things in the mail, NOT call you up.

If you did give this person on the phone any info, you better monitor your financial accounts very carefully.


16 posted on 06/29/2013 9:04:43 AM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: Gaffer; xkaydet65
"A reminder, only integrity and self values holds you responsible for your wife’s debts if you are not on her account."

I don't think that is correct. If you live in a community property state like CA and WA you are responsible.

17 posted on 06/29/2013 9:06:42 AM PDT by Spunky
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To: Spunky

In my state, if you are not specifically on the account - named as a co-card holder, you are not responsible for the debt. The card company has the action to file suit against the state to collect, however.


18 posted on 06/29/2013 9:08:09 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: xkaydet65

“BIG BROTHER”Is Here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


19 posted on 06/29/2013 9:12:30 AM PDT by bandleader
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To: xkaydet65

As I said, it’s highly likely, almost definitely a scam.

I did a quick search on the internet, and they mentioned scams similar to your experience.

Here is one example:

http://www.pennypinchinghints.com/financial-savings/avoid-debt-scams-after-the-funeral/2961/

When loved ones die, the survivors are vulnerable. It is not the best time for survivors to make decisions. Not only are they in shock, but they are also hit with a lot of detail and paperwork.

Scam artists like to take advantage of this vulnerability, especially when it concerns elderly survivors. For example in 2002, a bogus collection company named Exodus Collection Services made phone calls to people asking to settle debts in the hundreds and provided a mail box address for collection. These calls came within only a few days of the funeral. Scammers can easily use information in recently published obituaries to get contact information for family members of the deceased.

Scammers do not only collect money, they also collect information like Social Security numbers and bank account numbers. Once they have these numbers they can access both the deceased’s and the survivors’ money.

The best protection against such scams is knowledge and a protocol to follow under these difficult circumstances of family’s loss.

When contacted by any collection agency, ask for written proof of the debt. They should be able to provide you the amount owed, the date the debt was acquired, and exactly who is owed. Never deal with information over the phone without something in writing, most importantly when dealing with debt.

Double check any bill collecting company. You can do so through the Better Business Bureau (www.bbb.org) or through your state’s Attorney General’s office.

Understand probate procedure. All monies must be collected through an estate’s executor or through the probate court. You can provide contact information for either, but do not provide further information.

Know also that unless you have co-signed a debt, you have no obligation to pay the debt even if it is a debt accrued by a close family member who has recently died.

Bad situations can cause people to act in a panicked way. Just be sure when you feel most vulnerable that you should not deal with money or personal information over the phone. Secondly, don’t panic before you contact a lawyer or someone who has knowledge and authority over the estate of the dead person.


20 posted on 06/29/2013 9:15:50 AM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: glm; xkaydet65
make sure it is not a scam. My son’s cc companies wiped the record clean since she was the principle card holder. American Express may be different but I would check with them directly.

THIS.

21 posted on 06/29/2013 9:18:05 AM PDT by TADSLOS (The Event Horizon has come and gone. Buckle up and hang on.)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

I wonder if there is an arranged and ongoing exchange of information, ie., “You tell me if one of your cardholders dies and we’ll tell you if we get a death notice.”


22 posted on 06/29/2013 9:22:04 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Dilbert San Diego

“Is it a matter of public record when someone passes away, and are records such as Social Security public knowledge?”

A funeral home has to contact Social Security when they have a body.


23 posted on 06/29/2013 9:42:29 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.)
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To: xkaydet65

I am so sorry about your wife.


24 posted on 06/29/2013 9:42:54 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek (")
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To: Gaffer

“As far as the Social Security Administration goes, they can go pound sand. I would not provide them anything of any nature. They would not exist in my mind. eff them.”

If you use a funeral home when someone dies, the funeral home must contact social security so they would be in your life at that point. I’ve never heard of them contacting credit card companies. The funeral home didn’t ask me about credit cards and neither did social security when I had to go to their office about my husband’s death and that was in 2011.


25 posted on 06/29/2013 9:46:07 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.)
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To: xkaydet65

My condolences as well.
Please realize there are so many scams! I’m sure she will be voting democrat in the next election.
May our Heavenly Father strengthen you.


26 posted on 06/29/2013 9:53:26 AM PDT by outofsalt ("If History teaches us anything it's that history rarely teaches us anything")
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To: Marcella

They also report to banks, state income tax bureaus, etc.


27 posted on 06/29/2013 9:53:31 AM PDT by Safetgiver ( Islam makes barbarism look genteel.)
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To: Spunky
“I don’t think that is correct. If you live in a community property state like CA and WA you are responsible”

Texas is a community property state, however, if a card is only in one person’s name, only that person is responsible. This changed years ago when credit changed to be by individual, not couple. If a spouse has a card only in his/her name, the other spouse is not responsible for that debt because the spouse with the card got the card on the basis of his/her credit, not the spouse’s credit.

If your spouse has a card and you are not on it, the spouse got it with his/her credit, and the spouse runs up a $50,000 bill, you are not responsible.

28 posted on 06/29/2013 9:56:28 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.)
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To: Safetgiver

You missed my point...They (the special class)treat whites the same way she MAY (it has never been proved) have treated the special class. Period.


29 posted on 06/29/2013 9:56:57 AM PDT by Safetgiver ( Islam makes barbarism look genteel.)
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To: Marcella

When my husband died, I told the funeral director that I would notify SS the following as de died in a Sunday. He told me not to bother as, the minute that my husband drew his last breath, SS knew it.


30 posted on 06/29/2013 10:00:08 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek (")
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To: Coldwater Creek

I said at the funeral home I would contact social security. The funeral home administrator told me they were required to do it and it had been done. That is in Texas and it was 2011.


31 posted on 06/29/2013 10:03:13 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.)
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To: xkaydet65

I think this is likely a scam. When my dad died, not only did SS NOT call me, but I had to go wait in line at one of their offices to report is death.

I don’t believe for one moment that SS is constantly and proactively scanning databases looking for people who have recently died.


32 posted on 06/29/2013 10:03:59 AM PDT by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: xkaydet65

Besides how would SS or Amex or anyone else know to call YOU? Some scamster has probably been reading obits and got your name.


33 posted on 06/29/2013 10:06:36 AM PDT by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: Safetgiver

“They also report to banks, state income tax bureaus, etc.”

They don’t report to banks. I was told by a banker that they go through death notices in the newspaper every day to determine if one of those people has an account at their bank. If one does, the bank closes the account until they are contacted by the survivor or executor or executrix.


34 posted on 06/29/2013 10:07:02 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.)
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To: xkaydet65

“...The caller told me notice of my wife’s death has been sent to credit card companies, banks, and lending institutions for them to match against their records. That goes somewhat beyond allowing access to public inf.”
********************************************************************
My suspicion is that the American Express caller was ignorant of the actual technical process. The IT folks in American Express’ “central office” have probably set up a process to regularly query public records in scheduled “runs”, pull information on “recent” deaths and then take that data and match against A.E. records. They’d then take any hits and process them according to whatever their set of rules are.

I would hope that whatever actions, letters & calls they take would take into consideration the delicate situation and family feelings.


35 posted on 06/29/2013 10:25:05 AM PDT by House Atreides
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To: Marcella

Thanks. My daughter died in 1985 about three months after I deposited $36,000 in a savings account for her after I contracted in Africa for a diamond mine. I went home, buried her, lost my contract and was dunned for thousands for having her name and mine on the account by the state of PA. I was so PO”ed that they could tax a 19 Month old child that I almost committed a TRUE felony. I thought the funeral home did it.


36 posted on 06/29/2013 10:29:52 AM PDT by Safetgiver ( Islam makes barbarism look genteel.)
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To: xkaydet65

2 years after my dad passed ..a life insurance company tracked my brother down to tell him about a policy left behind for us. They did a routine SS death check and it came up that my father had passed. Wierd they found you so quick but with computers today and a big company like Amex they probably run the check daily.

So sometimes it could be for good however they could have sent you a letter and not been so cold about it.

Having said that, very sorry for your lose!


37 posted on 06/29/2013 10:30:49 AM PDT by alisasny (If you cant afford 10 bucks per month to save your own daughters ovary then vote OBAMA.)
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To: xkaydet65

Sorry for your loss.
If you are not on the card, I do not believe you are responsible for her debt.
I would not pay one cent to those banksters.


38 posted on 06/29/2013 10:46:00 AM PDT by BIV (typical white person)
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To: Marcella
"Texas is a community property state, however, if a card is only in one person’s name, only that person is responsible. This changed years ago when credit changed to be by individual, not couple."

You may want to read this article:

Snippet: "Furthermore, according to Texas attorney Glen Ayers, if you live in a community property state, you'd better hope you didn't receive community property in the divorce. "That divorce judgment does not bind the credit card company. It's going to chase you," he says. In a community property state, the rules are different during life and at death. "In community states such as Texas, any community property that passes to my wife as well as any specific bequest to my children would be liable on my death," says Ayers. If a wife, for example, has no contractual obligation to the community property, her separate property can't be touched, Ayers adds. However, community property can be used to pay off debts. Community debt laws are complex and vary even among community property states, so talk to a lawyer in your state about your situation."

Community Property

39 posted on 06/29/2013 11:03:42 AM PDT by Spunky
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To: Spunky

“However, community property can be used to pay off debts.”

This is true - after a husband’s death, his part of the community property can be used to pay his debt. If you have a joint bank account, his part can be used to pay his debt. Any property the wife had before the marriage, is not community property and the same is true with the husband. Community property is only that which occurs after the marriage between the two people.

As far as divorce, one shouldn’t have community property after a divorce. It would have been split up in the financial part of the divorce - he got his half and the wife got her half and each individually owns his/her half from that point on. The lawyer is saying that when he says, “her separate property can’t be touched”.

A divorce and a death usually has an attorney to keep it all straight.


40 posted on 06/29/2013 11:37:41 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.)
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To: BIV

“If you are not on the card, I do not believe you are responsible for her debt.
I would not pay one cent to those banksters.”

What happened to honesty and responsibility?

AmEx loaned the wife the money in good faith — whether or not the husband is legally responsible, he is morally responsible.


41 posted on 06/29/2013 12:38:08 PM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: xkaydet65

I am very sorry about the passing of your wife. My condolences.

Just want to echo what others have said: Check that this is not a scam by calling the number YOU have for AmEx (printed on the bill) and ask if they initiated a call to you about your wife’s account. (I wouldn’t even tell them what the call was about, since if they do not have the information yet, you can then deal with paying off her account as you see fit instead of being rushed.)


42 posted on 06/29/2013 1:43:19 PM PDT by Hetty_Fauxvert (FUBO, and the useful idiots you rode in on!)
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To: Innovative

So you pay it.


43 posted on 06/29/2013 2:26:14 PM PDT by BIV (typical white person)
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