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Late night driving advice
vanity ^ | me

Posted on 07/03/2013 11:29:46 AM PDT by gop4lyf

I will be driving from Dallas to Navarre, FL (Pensacola area) in a few weeks. I will be driving at night so that my 3 year old can sleep most of the way. I figure it will be much easier that way. I have two questions for my FRiends, if y'all would be so kind as to lend me your pearls of wisdom.

First, I would like to listen to a "books on tape" or audio book if you will type of recording. I assume that they can be found on a CD or mp3 download. I do love to read, but have never listened to a book before. I like authors like Clive Cussler, Stephen Hunter, Vince Flynn, Brad Thor, etc. Basically anything where the good guys whoop some bad guy butt. How do the audio books sound? Is it just some monotoned guy/gal reading the lines, or is there more inflection? Any suggestions on what to listen to?

My second question, has anyone tried 5 hour energy as a way to keep awake and stimulated? I don't drink energy drinks, just usually iced tea or water. I am diabetic so I can't drink anything with too much sugar in it. I won't go into sugar shock or anything, it just makes me have to go to the restroom really bad. I plan on sleeping most of the day before so that hopefully I won't be so overly tired. Thanks for all advice y'all may have!


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Chit/Chat; Travel
KEYWORDS: 5hourenergy; booksontape
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1 posted on 07/03/2013 11:29:46 AM PDT by gop4lyf
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To: gop4lyf

Stay safe with your precious passenger.


2 posted on 07/03/2013 11:32:27 AM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it. Their minds have been stolen.)
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To: gop4lyf

Rockstar no sugar no carbs, blue can. It’s an eye opener.


3 posted on 07/03/2013 11:33:34 AM PDT by novascotianative
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To: gop4lyf

Distance between Navarre, Florida (FL) and Dallas, Texas (TX)

How many miles? 675 Miles / 1086 Km

How many hours? This take 10 hours 28 mins

http://www.distancebetweencities.net/navarre_fl_and_dallas_tx/


4 posted on 07/03/2013 11:34:26 AM PDT by Hotlanta Mike ("Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu)
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To: gop4lyf

My advice: drive during the day, sleep at night.

Driving in the middle of the night on unfamiliar highways is a bad idea for many reason. It is an especially bad idea with a child.


5 posted on 07/03/2013 11:35:10 AM PDT by Retired Greyhound (.)
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To: gop4lyf

America the First 350 Years by Steven Wilkins.


6 posted on 07/03/2013 11:36:06 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: gop4lyf
Watch out for the other guy!

Expect the Un-expected!

Don't panic if you miss a turn.

Have a safe trip.

Oh Yeah, Stay out of the left-hand lane else you will get run over.

7 posted on 07/03/2013 11:36:09 AM PDT by TexasCajun (Creepy-Ass Cracker)
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To: gop4lyf

Driving at night is rife with many hazards. And driving while your child sleeps sounds like a terrible idea. What happens the next day when you must sleep but your child is awake?


8 posted on 07/03/2013 11:37:16 AM PDT by South40
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To: gop4lyf

You can get books on tape at the library, too.


9 posted on 07/03/2013 11:37:18 AM PDT by winkadink (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell)
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To: gop4lyf

Rolling down the windows when feeling a little groggy usually helps as well, although with a little one sleeping in the back it might not be possible.

Do they still have No Doze brand caffeine tablets at truck stops/gas stations?


10 posted on 07/03/2013 11:38:22 AM PDT by Hotlanta Mike ("Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu)
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To: South40

Driving at night is rife with many hazards. And driving while your child sleeps sounds like a terrible idea. What happens the next day when you must sleep but your child is awake?


You’re absolutely right on all counts.


11 posted on 07/03/2013 11:40:54 AM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it. Their minds have been stolen.)
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To: gop4lyf
I would like to listen to a "books on tape" or audio book if you will type of recording. I assume that they can be found on a CD or mp3 download. I do love to read, but have never listened to a book before. I like authors like Clive Cussler, Stephen Hunter, Vince Flynn, Brad Thor, etc. Basically anything where the good guys whoop some bad guy butt. How do the audio books sound? Is it just some monotoned guy/gal reading the lines, or is there more inflection? Any suggestions on what to listen to?

I used to do a lot of long distance driving and I listened to a lot of books on tape. You can rent them from Cracker Barrel for something like $3.50 a week and can return them to any other Cracker Barrel store. They are on CD or cassette tape, although mostly CD these days.

Generally speaking, they are read by actors or people who are skilled at reading out loud. They make the time go pretty quickly, but I sometimes find that I sort of phase out for awhile and when I "come to," I'll have realized that I hadn't paid attention to the last 10-15 minutes of the book.

CB at least used to have a pretty good selection of books and they covered a lot of topics, including non-fiction and fiction.

12 posted on 07/03/2013 11:41:04 AM PDT by Publius Valerius
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To: gop4lyf
I find I can't really follow a book on tape when I am driving as I pay attention to traffic flow and where I am, what is coming up next, looking out for other traffic and such things.

Basically, for me, listening to a book on tape is great if passenger but not as driver. . .just too busy concentrating on the road and not on the plot/characters. I find I miss entire sections of the book because of a car/truck that I am passing or some traffic ahead. . .that sort of thing.

Songs and music, okay, as you don't really need to think about plot-lines or characters. However, stay away from soft sleepy-time “relaxing” music as that might slow your mind.

Late night talk radio can be interesting, like the Art Bell show. Interesting and funny and entertaining as heck but not really requiring a lot on concentration to follow the topic or hilarious callers.

Over-night driving is certainly quieter and less traffic but in my experience it comes with increased risks due to sleepy/drowsy and possibly drunk drivers. Not to mention if you break-down on the side of the road at 0200. . .who is actually “out there” to “help.”

Also, if transiting an urban area or a somewhat complex interchange, limited visibility hampers/delays lane-changes and might be confusing.

I like to leave really early, 0400hrs or so when I drive from Dallas to El Paso. Find I get through Ft Worth with no hassle and find I get to El Paso before late afternoon traffic jams.

Perhaps you might consider where you will be around rush-hour time, as that might affect when you plan to leave.

Otherwise, I would plan to leave with just a few hours of darkness ahead of me and not an entire night.

Just me talking. . .

13 posted on 07/03/2013 11:41:23 AM PDT by Hulka
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To: gop4lyf

There should be plenty of big rigs on the road. They can be a good gauge if Smokey Bear is in the area. When they reduce their speed to around the posted limit, you should do the same.


14 posted on 07/03/2013 11:43:04 AM PDT by Hotlanta Mike ("Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu)
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To: gop4lyf

If a Louisiana State Patrol turns on his blue lights for you, that will be $400 plus whatever the fine is for your alleged infraction.

That should keep you awake while driving as well as disturb your sleep while in Florida.

I hope you get out of Pensacola before Zimmerman is aquitted.


15 posted on 07/03/2013 11:43:44 AM PDT by noprogs (Borders, Language, Culture....all should be preserved)
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To: gop4lyf

A lot of audio books are read by the author, so it’s presented the way they want it. Occasionally, a well known actor will be hired to read one. Either way, it’s probably not going to be a boring monotone.


16 posted on 07/03/2013 11:46:38 AM PDT by real saxophonist (If something is TRULY 'common sense', then a law about it is unnecessary.)
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To: gop4lyf
Drive during the day. Much safer. Your son will sleep anyway. Or not. That doesn't matter. YOUR sleep cycle and safety does.

17 posted on 07/03/2013 11:48:49 AM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: gop4lyf
Download some mp3 sermons from sermonaudio.
I like Alan Cairns.
Ian Paisley will also keep you awake by yelling at you.

www.sermonaudio.com - sorted by speaker

18 posted on 07/03/2013 11:52:17 AM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: gop4lyf

Your child will sleep a great deal during a daylight trip. Both of you need to take a break from driving and get out of the car and stretch, etc. every 90 minutes. That isn’t a good idea in the dark.
You used to be able to rent tapes from Cracker Barrel. Simply drop the tape off at the nearest location when you have finished the book.


19 posted on 07/03/2013 11:52:39 AM PDT by Wiser now (Socialism does not eliminate poverty, it guarantees it.)
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To: gop4lyf

Children’s benadryl and drive during the day.


20 posted on 07/03/2013 11:55:05 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: BitWielder1

I completely agree with what others have said: don’t try an overnight drive. Especially if this would be the first time for one.

I tried an overnight drive once in my life. And only that once. I’d done plenty of nighttime driving, but never a full overnight. I came close to killing myself, and possibly others, several times. Despite multiple stops for Starbucks (double espresso shots) and Red Bull. No one knows how their body will handle it until they’ve tried it, and if their body can’t handle it they may find out too late ...


21 posted on 07/03/2013 11:57:01 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: gop4lyf

Drive in daylight hours - stay away from rest stops - stop for fuel at well occupied , brand name gas stations - carry Pepper Spray and or handgun you are familiar with - protect yourself and baby. God Bless Your Safe Travels. Ps: I am traveling by myself right now!


22 posted on 07/03/2013 11:57:21 AM PDT by TNoldman (AN AMERICAN FOR A MUSLIM/BHO FREE AMERICA.)
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To: gop4lyf

I drive at night and love audio books - for me mp3 download works the best as it’s all on my device (phone, ipod whatever) and no need to worry about CDs.

5 hour energy? Never used it myself. But know some that have. From what I have been able to gather the biggest no-no is having more than one. Folks have gotten really sick from drinking more than one of these things. I personall would just stick to coffee.


23 posted on 07/03/2013 12:03:52 PM PDT by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: gop4lyf

I would have been dead many years ago if not for recorded books. I never sleep better than when behind the wheel, and music makes it worse.

Highly recommend the Aubrey/Maturin series on CD. The reader is spectacularly good, as are the stories.

Approach books “read by the author” with fear and trembling. It’s an entirely different skill set. Some people have both skills, but not many.

An exception was Clarence Thomas’ autobiography. Listening to his story of what was done to him in his own words was intensely moving.

Stay safe.

I don’t personally agree with the “drive during the day” types. If your car is reliable, I find night driving, at least on the Interstate, no problem. Assuming you can stay awake.

You should give some thought to what you will do if your car breaks down. Possibly I’m jumping to conclusions, but if you’re a lady, being unarmed at the side of the road leaves you at the mercy of whoever stops. It will probably be a fine gentleman like me, but nothing to bet your lives on.


24 posted on 07/03/2013 12:05:28 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: gop4lyf

One more thought. If there’s a book you particularly enjoyed reading, try it in audio.

At least for me, it’s a completely different type of experience reading and listening.


25 posted on 07/03/2013 12:08:02 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: gop4lyf

To stay awake do not eat much if at all. If you eat try to eat just protein. Chicken is good or a burger without the bun or any condiments. Eating will make you sleepy within the hour, try not to do it.

Drink water, coffee if you must.

Stop for gas and toilet. Walk around a little. Keep rolling.

Most of all keep rolling.


26 posted on 07/03/2013 12:08:47 PM PDT by Ray76 (Do you reject Obama? And all his works? And all his empty promises?)
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To: gop4lyf

5 Hour Energy help keep me awake on a all night trip from Ohio to Florida. It took a while for it to kick in.

Unless your a night shift worker, I would suggest you drive during the daytime and sleep at night. I work nights and I still got sleepy driving at night.


27 posted on 07/03/2013 12:10:31 PM PDT by Ticonderoga34
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To: gop4lyf

I’ve driven through the night a couple of times and always ended up miserable. My advice is DON’T DO IT, especially with a 3 year old child. It’s a lot better for him to end up tired and cranky after a 10 hour day time drive than dead after
you fell asleep a the wheel at 3:00 a.m. and drove of the interstate at 70 m.p.h.


28 posted on 07/03/2013 12:11:24 PM PDT by libstripper (A)
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To: gop4lyf
Early am departure is better. I used to leave the Bay Area at 4:00 am to beat the commute traffic, make only one stop for a half hour breakfast on I-5, then get to Las Vegas a little after 12:00 noon. 555 miles on the odometer. Godsmack is great desert driving music.

Then you can take an afternoon nap. :)

29 posted on 07/03/2013 12:13:54 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: gop4lyf

expect your chances of getting pulled over to go up. Most stops of people are done after 10 pm. I know you’re doing highway, I am just saying be aware that your chances of being stopped by officers increases when you travel at night. Have recording devices on. And I would recommend if you don’t have multiple adult witnesses travelling with you and that will be awake, to get a dash camera to at least record what’s going on in front of you so that you have evidence that may support any incident you could get into.


30 posted on 07/03/2013 12:16:32 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: gop4lyf

I love books on tape during the day. When I had a 1.5 hour commute each way, I belonged to Audible.com, and downloaded several to my MP3 player. Now you can buy them on iTunes, or most public libraries have them on CD. If you have a Kindle, you can have it “read” a book to you, if that setting is enabled for that particular book. It’s a robot voice, so it’s not the dramatic rendition you’d get from a decent Audible or similar book.

However, that’s during the day. Books on tape tend to make me zone out at night, and make staying awake a challenge. I recommend music. When I used to drive through the night a lot, back when I was young and stupid, I’d even sing along with Frank Sinatra, windows down and sunroof open on the Jersey Turnpike - DIY Karaoke helped keep me alert.


31 posted on 07/03/2013 12:18:38 PM PDT by LouD
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To: gop4lyf

My advice:

Buy one of those GPS contraptions.

Plot your route so that you avoid cities at rush-hour.

It’s better to leave around 5-6 am and drive into the light.

Don’t get off the high-way if you can help it. Some of those exit ramps will take you into hell itself.

For books-on-tape get novels, not essays, heavy classics or advice books. Historical stories, fictional or well written narratives are okay. Shelby Foote’s Civil War histories are great. A good story will keep you at the grind.


32 posted on 07/03/2013 12:20:24 PM PDT by tsomer
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To: gop4lyf
I recommend you sleep at night and find a hotel after 12 midnight.

Route: I recommend I-20 East to I-55 South to I-12 East to I-10 East To Florida Highway 87 South to Navarre.
"OKALOOSA ISLAND" Something To See

If you've got help driving and want to save some time go I-20 east to Jackson MS and then take Highway 45 South to Biloxi, Mississippi, and then I-10 east to Florida Highway 87 South to Navarre.
33 posted on 07/03/2013 12:21:26 PM PDT by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: gop4lyf

“Earth in the Balance” by Algore.
you won’t stop laughing.

And just hit the deer. don’t swerve to try to avoid them.


34 posted on 07/03/2013 12:23:38 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Marx smelled bad & lived with his parents most his life.)
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To: gop4lyf
A friend and I drove from Georgia to Colorado. Mostly me driving, because it was my car. We ended up crossing the Mississippi River in the middle of the night.

My friend was quite disappointed about that. He had hoped it would be during the day, so he could see things and take pictures.

So that might be something to consider, if you want to see any landmarks.

35 posted on 07/03/2013 12:23:45 PM PDT by real saxophonist (If something is TRULY 'common sense', then a law about it is unnecessary.)
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To: gop4lyf
The overnight hours belong to the truckers and when I am driving long distance, I'm glad to yield the highways up to them. I'm usually checked into a motel by dark and I'm up bright and early the next morning to resume my trip.

Otherwise you are just going to get in the way. Also, as others have pointed out, any motorist becomes a magnet for law enforcement after say 10 or 11pm. They will stop you under the pretense of speeding, excessive lane shifting, etc., but what they are really looking for is to see if you have been out drinking so expect the full flashlight/spotlight treatment when you get stopped.

Then you have the issues of fatigue and not seeing the road properly, which only worsen as you get older.

Nothing good comes from overnight driving unless you make your living driving a big rig and you know every inch of every interstate.

36 posted on 07/03/2013 12:38:58 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: gop4lyf
Driving all that distance,at night,at 70mph? Aren't you afraid of falling asleep (or at least getting drowsy) behind the wheel? Aren't you afraid of *others* who might be sleepy...or drunk?
37 posted on 07/03/2013 12:45:52 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (The Civil Servants Are No Longer Servants...Or Civil.)
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To: gop4lyf; All

Thanks again for the replies. As for me, I am a big ugly bastard that no one in their right mind wants to get squirrely with. My wife is coming as well, and she will sleep during the trip and she and my sister, that’s who we are going to go see, will watch my son when we get there. I have driven most of the route several times before, so I know where it is safe to stop. I am allotting 3 to 4 hours at the most between each stop.

My wife has told me I “better not be listening to any damn books on tape!” Her words. I reckon she thinks it will put me to sleep.

I lived in Louisiana for several years and my wife is from there, so I am fully expecting that Louisiana State Police may be pulling us over. It happens. They love vehicles with Texas tags. Oh well, they won’t find anything interesting on me. I won’t be speeding at all because my Dodge Ram gets poor enough gas mileage as it is.


38 posted on 07/03/2013 12:46:40 PM PDT by gop4lyf (Are we no longer in that awkward time? Or is it still too early?)
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To: gop4lyf
Oh, staying awake while diabetic: Eat salads and don't eat dressing or any carbohydrates that convert to sugar easily.
Stay away from bread, milk, potatoes, or any white foods.
Don't eat pasta, sandwiches, or pizza.
You can eat meats, but no gravy.
Get you some regular beef jerky or cheese for a snack.
Drink water or coffee for caffeine, or diet cokes.
When you get to where you want to go to sleep, just eat a slice of bread and drink a glass of milk.
Have a safe trip, and if you go the I-12 to I-10 route north of New Orleans, be sure to stop at the rest stop just west of where I-12 becomes I-10 again.
On the south side of the interstate, you'll see the lunar landing module "The Eagle".
Its a great stop for kids to reach out and touch history.
But the internet says that there's one in Hwy 607, Westonia, MS.


39 posted on 07/03/2013 12:59:52 PM PDT by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: gop4lyf
Audio Book, click on it.
Better yet, buy both of them in audio CD.
40 posted on 07/03/2013 1:07:36 PM PDT by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: gop4lyf
CORRECTION:
41 posted on 07/03/2013 1:21:10 PM PDT by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: gop4lyf

Watch for critters while driving at night in the south, deer primarily. They’re large enough to cause a serious accident.
If you even think you see eyes glinting red or yellow off in the trees or bushes, ease off and prepare to brake or take evasive action. Unless you’re in a big SUV and well off the ground, you really don’t want to hit one at highway speeds.


42 posted on 07/03/2013 1:25:59 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: gop4lyf

Most of the people who read the books are voice actors. They do an excellent job. Sometime, bu not often, a reader voice rubs me the wrong way. If I can not stand the readers voice after one CD I stop listening and go on to the next book. I usually have 3-4 books in the car at one time.

You want unabridged books. That is especially true if you like the author. . I listened to Brad Thor’s Lion’s of Lucerne, Full Black and Black List. They were well done. The guy that reads Cussler is good, but I don’t like Cussler. For that kind of thriller I prefer Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child. This pair of authors do a better job. The authors you like have lots of books available on CD or for download.

You can get the books on CD from the library and then rip them to another CD, MP3 or USB flashdrive so you don’t need to take the library’s CD’s with you. A lot of libraries also have electronic downloadable recorded books which you can load on a MP3 player or flashdrive. You just need a library card.

Audible sells a lot of the books and last time I looked they allowed you to get 2 books for free for new customers. I used to rent books on tape from Recorded Books but decided I’d use the library. The Los Angeles Public Library has an excellent reserve system which transfers books and CD’s to the branch where you want to pick it up.

A fun series, but not exactly of the type you like is Flashman by George McDonald Fraser. Donald Westlake, Carl Hiaasen, John Saul, Micheal Connelly, Lee Child, Lawrence Shames and John Sanford are all good authors with good readers. I love the reader that does Janet Evanovitch’s books about Stephanie Plum series, but that is really out of you shoot-em-up books.

Go to you local library and see what they have locally, for download and how to find the CD’s in other branches and how to get them delivered to the branch you want.


43 posted on 07/03/2013 1:28:56 PM PDT by airedale
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
I personall would just stick to coffee.

It keeps you going in more ways than one...

44 posted on 07/03/2013 1:31:17 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: gop4lyf; a fool in paradise
Depend on the experience of an ex-cosmonaut who once covered pretty much the same route:


45 posted on 07/03/2013 1:32:10 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: RegulatorCountry
I was at March AFB when we lost one of our air traffic controllers to a deer crash.
She was driving a Honda Si when she hit it late at night.
The Highway patrol said the deer was still alive when it went through the windshield and landed in the passenger's set on it's back.
They said the deer had hit her in the neck with it's hoof and cut her jugular vein wide open.
She was dead on the scene when they arrived, and they had to shoot the deer due to a broken leg.
46 posted on 07/03/2013 1:34:10 PM PDT by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Revolting cat!

LOL!! I actually did laugh out loud.! Thanks for that!


47 posted on 07/03/2013 1:40:58 PM PDT by gop4lyf (Are we no longer in that awkward time? Or is it still too early?)
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To: gop4lyf
Take a nap during the day before you leave.

WATCH OUT FOR THE DEER! Watch for pairs of eyes along the else of the highway. If one crosses the highway, there is a good chance that his buddies are not far behind.

Bring something you can safely munch on. I used to call it "road food". I don't recommend cold drinks because you will need more potty stops, and that can be chancey at night, even on interstates. In fact, I would intentionally stop drinking anything hours before leaving.

Night people are different. There are live radio shows that cater to the all night workers--Coast to Coast AM has everything from legitimate scientists to oddballs who claim to be in contact with the dead or aliens. (You won't go to sleep~and is now on 550 stations) There are shows for the truckers, too, with a variety pf topies.

If all else fails and you find yourself impossibly sleepy, what you can do in desperation is park right in front of an all night restaurant. Don't try this unless there are a lot of safe-looking people around.
48 posted on 07/03/2013 2:42:08 PM PDT by Nepeta
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To: gop4lyf

I think we are relieved that you’ll have other adults with you.

Of course the first advice is, if you are feeling sleepy PULL OVER.

As to audio books, hubby and I love them. And now that I know you’re a guy I can strongly recommend a really, really good one: Word War Z. My understanding is they’ve totally changed the book for the movie, but the book is an episodic tale, told by many narrators of their “personal” experience during the Zombie wars. So there is a narrator, but there are also many others who read. It was just a great listen. I don’t even like Zombie stuff, but the people who read it were great, more like actors which many of them are; Mark Harmon actually read the main character (the one played by Brad Pitt, I think); he was excellent.

This audio book is abridged, we didn’t find that out until later, to us it didn’t matter.

We also listened to some Clive Custler ones, “The Wrecker” was good of those.

Hubby always downloaded them from Audible onto his i-phone and then we plugged that into the aux jack on the car stereo. If you do this and you have your phone in a case make sure you get a cable with a jack that fits with the case on.

Be careful of ones from libraries on CD, we had a lot of problems with those. I know they are supposed to be indestructible, but we still had issues with skipping, etc.

Years ago I listened to the “Rumpole of the Baily” stories. They were read by Leo McKearn who played Rumpole of the TV Series. If you liked the stories or the show, you’ll love the audio books.


49 posted on 07/03/2013 3:41:50 PM PDT by jocon307
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To: gop4lyf

I prefer to drive at night. Pull over and nap for an hour when tired. 1776 is a good listen. Matt Bracken is a freeper author. Castigo Cay will keep your attention. If it’s available on audio?


50 posted on 07/03/2013 4:15:15 PM PDT by PilotDave (No, really, you just can't make this stuff up!!!)
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