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Vanity - Should the GOP House Defund Obamacare?
July 5th, 2013

Posted on 07/05/2013 9:23:27 AM PDT by Perdogg

The first inclination would be yes. I find the law awful and have expressed my desire time after time to have the law repealed. I was also extremely disappointed when the Supreme Court upheld the law based on the tax argument. However, since the GOP controls only the House, repeal is not realistic option at this time.

What should the GOP do?

Conservative talk show host Mark Levin called on Speaker Boehner to call a presser to announce that House is going to defund Obamacare, even at the risk of shutting the government down. Apparently many feel that the House Republican Establishment believes that if the Obamacare is defunded, a high game of political chicken will be played out in similar fashion of the 1995 government shutdown that reinvigorated the Clinton Presidency in 1995 and led to the ultimate downfall of Speaker Gingrich and President Clinton re-election.

The question would it be, is it wise to defund it?

Even if the exchanges were unfunded, businesses could still legally dump insurance coverage, requiring their employees to go the exchanges. You say that would be cold hearted - absolutely, when that has ever stopped anyone in the past? Are people going to quit their jobs in this economy because some corporate bureaucrat in New York dumped the health plan? The delay of the business mandate really has not changed anything. Once the exchanges are “up and running” on October 1st, business will be free to send their employees to the exchanges. Some will do so. To be honest, the economic incentive is there.

Here is the most important point. If the GOP tinkers with the bill, the GOP will own the bill. The Low Information Voters will blame the GOP for any impending disasters that occur, whether or not the blame is deserved.

Unfortunately, the only way to get change is that people suffer for their electoral actions, or in the case of many, inactions.

There is a silver lining. I believe, you can call me crazy, that there may be a stealth push underway to get rid the bill before next November elections. It is called Obamacare because signed, and yes, he owns it. However, one should remember that none of the suggestions he made, made it into the Senate bill. The Bill that actually became law.

He could always claim that it wasn’t his Bill and that the GOP has refused to properly fund it and in fact, the media no longer calls it Obamacare – i.e. the Limbaugh theorem. Once the full effect of disaster hits next year, the Dems will put out the stop to do anything to delay it or get rid of it.

Then the question should be what should GOP do then? In the big picture scheme of things, it is not a black and white issue.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: abortion; deathpanels; obamacare; zerocare

1 posted on 07/05/2013 9:23:27 AM PDT by Perdogg
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To: Perdogg

Rhetorical Question?

Oops! I just answered your Rhetorical question with my rhetoric....


2 posted on 07/05/2013 9:24:33 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Perdogg

Of course they should. But they don’t have the guts.


3 posted on 07/05/2013 9:25:33 AM PDT by AdaGray (Primary Them All)
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To: Vendome

/sarcasm.

No content, just /sarcasm.


4 posted on 07/05/2013 9:27:59 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Perdogg

Quite the contrary. I think that the GOP should go to the Supreme Court and FORCE Obama to implement Obamacare as legislated. If he wants to delay it, then he has to go back to Concgress. At that point, the GOP should craft legislation to delay the implementation till 2015, but also add so many new provisions that would force Obama to either swallow hard, or implement in 2014. If we are going to get a train wreck anyway, let Obama be at the controls. This is I golden opportunity, in my book. I may be missing something, but that is how I see it.


5 posted on 07/05/2013 9:29:40 AM PDT by fhayek
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To: Perdogg
Interesting topic.

One of Karl Marx's charming ideas was "immiseration" -- the idea that a communist revolution might be unlikely if people were doing okay, but if you could make people miserable enough, they might clamor for a glorious proletarian revolution.

I think I might stand that idea on its head. If Obamacare goes though, people will be miserable, and there will be all kinds of consequences. I would suggest that this might lead to a rejection of Progressivism and a return to the tried-and-true American notion that government is a problem, not a solution. We need less government.

Obamacare, left alone to come into existence as Obama intended, may possibly be a vehicle to make people see the value of Limited Government.

6 posted on 07/05/2013 9:30:20 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (21st century. I'm not a fan.)
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To: Perdogg
WHY IS THIS EVEN A QUESTION?

Rep. Michele Bachmann: House Republicans Should ‘Fully Defund Obamacare’ Under Congress’ ‘Power of the Purse’ January 7, 2011
7 posted on 07/05/2013 9:39:05 AM PDT by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: AdaGray
Of course they should. But they don’t have the guts.

You are correct sir. I keep saying, I do not know who I despise more, the rats or the RINOs.

8 posted on 07/05/2013 9:40:14 AM PDT by Mark17 (My body is in California, but my heart is in the Philippines.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Obamacare ... may possibly be a vehicle to make people see the value of Limited Government.
Surely you jest. All Øbama Care will do is add to the number of life's essentials that the Takers of Society will want for free ... as in Øbama phones, food, housing, transportation, cable TV, wide screen TVs, etc., etc., etc.
9 posted on 07/05/2013 9:42:13 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Perdogg

We don’t have to worry about Speaker Boehner doing anything.

He won’t.

He is as useless as a transgendered penis.

He just hangs there like a chunk of dead meat.


10 posted on 07/05/2013 9:45:46 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: Perdogg

Vanity - Should the GOP House Defund Obamacare?

does a bear wipe his #$% with a rabbit in the woods?


11 posted on 07/05/2013 9:47:02 AM PDT by lesko
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To: oh8eleven
I see that possibility. What you say, is clearly what the Democrats intend -- I have always considered Obamacare to be a badly designed plan (on purpose) to get us to Single Payer in which all healthcare is "free".

The question: Will the Democrats succeed with that?

Bottomline is that Socialism will fail because eventually we will run out of other people's money. What's the timeframe for that? Would Obamacare be the straw that breaks everything? Or would Single Payer actually be deployed as a "fix" for Obamacare, and then we would suffer a long for some more years until something else breaks the system?

It's all Cloward-Piven, you know. The game will be played until it breaks. My guess is that Obamacare is the breaker. Your mileage may vary.

12 posted on 07/05/2013 9:47:35 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (21st century. I'm not a fan.)
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To: Perdogg

Why would they?

The GOP CREATED RomneyCARE/ObamaCARE
and deserves extinction for LYING ABOUT IT.

Also, The House (and Moslems and al Qaeda whom they support)
are NOT under ObamaCARE.

Also, They leave the borders open because THEY
are protected and not even under ObamaCARE.


13 posted on 07/05/2013 9:47:53 AM PDT by Diogenesis
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To: Perdogg

Fefund it now. Screw the LIVs. They’ll never side with us. They’re impervious to facts.

It’s a moot point, though. The RINOcracy is feckless.


14 posted on 07/05/2013 9:51:34 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: fhayek
I think that the GOP should go to the Supreme Court and FORCE Obama to implement Obamacare as legislated. If he wants to delay it, then he has to go back to Concgress.

Since taxation is the pervue of the House, and SCOTUS has already ruled that the employer and individual mandates are a tax, how does the Executive branch have the power to reduce or delay it?

15 posted on 07/05/2013 9:52:35 AM PDT by Roccus (Dealing with POLITICIANS is the true war on terror)
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To: Perdogg

The House should use stealth ways to defund parts of the bill. They should also go full bore propaganda to blame Obama and his Dem Senate for foisting on America an unworkable system which robs them of insurance choices. He lied, they lied about keeping your own insurance. This is a way to plant the idea no matter how it turns out that Obama lied about choice and Americans Red or Blue want choice.


16 posted on 07/05/2013 9:55:37 AM PDT by phillyfanatic
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To: Roccus
The Obamacare bill constantly contains this phrase: “at the discretion of the Secretary of HHS...”

The theory is that they can implement (or not implemnt) as they wish.

17 posted on 07/05/2013 9:59:10 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (21st century. I'm not a fan.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
My guess is that Obamacare is the breaker.
Gee, some "guess." He's already declared he's going to transform this country a hundred times.
My hope, slim as it may be, is that Boehner and the GOP will put a firm end to his "breaking" before it truly gets out of hand.
Short of that, and with Hitlery waiting in the wings, I see a military coup.
18 posted on 07/05/2013 10:05:41 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: AdaGray

Career politicians will not threaten their incumbency. They have tasted the good life: to paraphrase Harry Reid, far from the smell of the crowd. The primary directive of every politician is to get re-elected: take no chances and screw your constituents.


20 posted on 07/05/2013 10:15:58 AM PDT by SC_Pete
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To: oh8eleven

What people are getting tired of is hearing about the 40 million people without health insurance. They are getting tired of hearing about their healthcare costs going up. They are getting tired about the lies Obama and friends are telling them.

Republicans need to take an axe to this. Tell us about the rising costs, the exemptions, the IRS.

End it now.


21 posted on 07/05/2013 10:23:00 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (The reason we own guns is to protect ourselves from those wanting to take our guns from us.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Thank you.


22 posted on 07/05/2013 10:24:17 AM PDT by Roccus
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To: ClearCase_guy
"Obamacare, left alone to come into existence as Obama intended, may possibly be a vehicle to make people see the value of Limited Government. "

If we had responsible citizenry, that might be a possibility.

23 posted on 07/05/2013 10:27:39 AM PDT by Tula Git (There IS a coup in America and it's on track and almost complete.)
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To: Perdogg

The GOP house should do a LOT of things.

But, they won’t!


24 posted on 07/05/2013 10:27:43 AM PDT by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for the American politburo!!)
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To: EQAndyBuzz
Republicans need to take an axe to this. Tell us about the rising costs, the exemptions, the IRS.
Over and over and over again - in a loud voice. But who's going to carry that voice other than Fox News?
The GOP damned well better get their act together or they're history ... as will the US of A.
25 posted on 07/05/2013 10:29:29 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

The fact remains that if the GOP tinkers with it, they will own it.


26 posted on 07/05/2013 10:40:20 AM PDT by Perdogg (Cruz-Paul 2016)
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To: oh8eleven

You have to realize that still once someone in middle America who voted for Obamacare is forced to go the exchanges by their company, they are going to be angry. The issue isn’t necessarily the people who are not producers.


27 posted on 07/05/2013 10:43:26 AM PDT by Perdogg (Cruz-Paul 2016)
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To: Perdogg

Don’t tinker. Kill.


28 posted on 07/05/2013 10:48:47 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

I agree.


29 posted on 07/05/2013 10:49:34 AM PDT by Perdogg (Cruz-Paul 2016)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
I want it dead as much as the next guy.

But our opponents are clever folks. I would say that the insurance business and the healthcare business are being thrown into turmoil no matter what. It won't be pretty.

Currently, Obamacare has nothing but Democrat fingerprints on it and -- theoretically -- it is a beautiful thing which will fill the world with skittles and unicorns.

If the Republicans tinker with it -- or if the Republicans kill it -- then, when the insurance business and the healthcare business are thrown into turmoil (as they will be under any scenario), the Democrats will say "Bush's fault" (or the equivalent).

Chaos is coming. I don't think it can be stopped.
The Chaos might be blamed on the Party of Big Government (by that I mean the Democrats).
Or else the Chaos will be blamed on the Party of Limited Government (by that I mean the GOP -- try not to laugh).

My fear is that we do something -- anything -- to Obamacare and when the chaos arrives, everyone in the world will say: "We've learned our lesson: we need to push harder to the Left next time -- let's go!!!"

30 posted on 07/05/2013 11:02:11 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (21st century. I'm not a fan.)
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To: Perdogg

Oh hell yes!

LLS


31 posted on 07/05/2013 11:02:59 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: ClearCase_guy
The Obamacare bill constantly contains this phrase: “at the discretion of the Secretary of HHS...”

Could this not be used by a future Republican president to unilaterally get rid of Obamacare altogether?

32 posted on 07/05/2013 11:03:45 AM PDT by fhayek
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To: Perdogg
once someone in middle America who voted for Obamacare is forced to go the exchanges by their company, they are going to be angry.
You're right - and then they'll vote for Hitlery. We are screwed.
33 posted on 07/05/2013 11:04:22 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Perdogg

Yes, and defund the IRS so they can’t hire the agents needed to implement.


34 posted on 07/05/2013 11:05:15 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: fhayek
I think that the GOP should go to the Supreme Court and FORCE Obama to implement Obamacare as legislated. If he wants to delay it, then he has to go back to Concgress.

Yes, then refuse to fund the IRS agents needed to implement the mandate. Blame it on the IRS scandal.

Force implementation in 2014 and the Democrats lose. Pass a bill AND go to court.

Delaying it until 2015 can be an excuse for defunding. "If you won't implement it as the law requires, why should we fund it?"

35 posted on 07/05/2013 11:09:28 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: Perdogg

Obamacare is unconstitutional.


36 posted on 07/05/2013 11:09:48 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: fhayek

What you’re missing is that the GOP has not the spine to follow through on anything and will only get blamed for everything that is bad. Their motto is, “Heads, you win, tails, we lose.” Plus, we the people always get the worst of it because yet another bad program gets enacted. Two notables to look at both occurred under W: Signing McCain-Feingold figuring that the Supreme Court would strike it down, but the GOP would get the credit for trying, and the Medicare prescription plan which the Stupid Party gets tagged as huge spenders while getting no credit for whatever assistance it renders. Meanwhile, we suffer with both of them.


37 posted on 07/05/2013 11:13:43 AM PDT by Dahoser (Separation of church and state? No, we need separation of media and state.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Well, regardless, it’s a moot point.

But the RINOs have to plant a flag somewhere, sometime. It’s a hell of a lot harder for us, since they own the media.


38 posted on 07/05/2013 11:18:37 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: Dahoser

No, am well aware of the spinal fortitude (or lack thereof) of the Grand Old Party. It was more of an academic exercise when I posed the question. The Democrats are so diabolical that they put dictatorial powers into legislation that they would freely use, knowing full well that the opposition party would never take advantage of them if they had the opportunity. Talk about making Republicans your bitch. Still, the power would be there, if someone would show the gumption to use it.

All this, of course, is beside the fact that such power, constitutionally, should NOT be there in the first place. Sigh.


39 posted on 07/05/2013 11:51:38 AM PDT by fhayek
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To: fhayek
With you on that. Sigh2.
40 posted on 07/05/2013 12:05:33 PM PDT by Dahoser (Separation of church and state? No, we need separation of media and state.)
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To: Perdogg

I have completely given up on the GOP to do anything conservative or anything to save the Republic.


41 posted on 07/05/2013 1:24:12 PM PDT by Bullish (Psalm 46)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Unfortunately, if obamacare goes through with the humongous new army of bureaucrats whom no politicians in Washington will do anything to cause to lose their jobs, the total state is upon us and there is NO getting out from under short of armed insurrection. Armed insurrection, succeed or fail, leads to tyranny and totalism.


42 posted on 07/05/2013 2:04:05 PM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE http://steshaw.org/econohttp://www.fee.org/library/det)
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To: Mark17
I do not know who I despise more, the rats or the RINOs.

A distinction without a difference. Who do you despise more, a Ponzi schemer in an Armani suit or one in a Brooks Brothers suit?

43 posted on 07/05/2013 2:06:57 PM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE http://steshaw.org/econohttp://www.fee.org/library/det)
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