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Aviation Expert Tells KCAL9 ‘Pilot Error’ Might Be Cause Of Deadly Plane Crash
CBSLA.com) ^ | July 6, 2013 11:56 PM

Posted on 07/07/2013 1:20:24 PM PDT by BenLurkin

CAMARILLO (CBSLA.com) — Investigators were immediately dispatched to San Francisco to try to determine what caused the crash of Asiana flight 214.

KCAL9′s Cristy Fajardo spoke to one of the nation’s leading aviation experts for insight into the crash.

Fajardo spoke to pilot and author Barry Schiff and asked his opinion on what might be the likely cause, or causes, of the deadly accident.

To the average person, the runway is now filled with pieces of twisted and burned metal. To Schiff, he sees pieces of a puzzle. He listened to numerous witness accounts and looked at images of the twisted wreckage.

Schiff believes he already has a bead on what went wrong. “In all probability,” he says, “this is a classic case of pilot error.”

He believes the pilot knew the landing wasn’t feeling right.

“The pilot undoubtedly knew and recognized he was too low and he was going too slow and he tried to correct at the last minute but the corrective action he took was too late and too late,” says Schiff.

The pilot was landing in clear skies. The airport’s Instrument Landing System was reportedly down and he also believes this was a factor.

“Pilots have to make what’s called a visual approach, they have to look at the runway and judge their descent and land accordingly. That’s what people were doing all day long today. But these pilots did not do it properly. They landed short.”

On a clear day, a visual approach should not have been a problem especially for an experienced pilot, said Schiff.

Schiff says pilots rely too much on using the instrument landing system.

“Pilots have become accustomed over the years to using the instrument landing system, and pilots are developing what is called ‘Automation Complacency,’” says Schiff, “They aren’t as good in some cases at making manual landings, compared to the automated kind and this might be that case.”

Schiff wants to emphasize that he is making “educated guesses” and says, in time, we will know exactly what actually happened.

The National Transportation Safety Board will comb through all the wreckage and evidence, study the black box recordings before making a final determination as to the cause — and Schiff says that is the way it should be.


TOPICS: Travel
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1 posted on 07/07/2013 1:20:24 PM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: BenLurkin

And he is right, it MAY be pilot error. It MAY also be hardware or systems error.


2 posted on 07/07/2013 1:25:00 PM PDT by Born to Conserve
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To: BenLurkin

Oh there’s the newsflash of the Century. :-)


3 posted on 07/07/2013 1:25:05 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: BenLurkin

On the info available right now, I suspect that the pilot came in too low/short, recognized his problem, started a go-around with nose up, full power. The aircraft rotated about its center of gravity, sending the tail downward, to contact the sea-wall/berm.


4 posted on 07/07/2013 1:26:40 PM PDT by expat2
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To: BenLurkin

Thanks for posting this article. Following the author’s example, it is too soon to pinpoint the reason for the crash. The information is still incoming.


5 posted on 07/07/2013 1:27:36 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: Born to Conserve

Here is video just released of the plane crash occurring

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2013/07/07/vo-plane-sf-plane-crash-on-cam.courtesy-fred-hayes.html


6 posted on 07/07/2013 1:28:46 PM PDT by Sarah Barracuda
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To: expat2; UCANSEE2; Georgia Girl 2; Born to Conserve; nuconvert

This chart is very interesting: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/07/article-2357502-1AB1F276000005DC-926_964x613.jpg

Tip of the hat to Nuconvert for posting the article from which this came.


7 posted on 07/07/2013 1:31:28 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: BenLurkin

Speculation is almost as brilliant as ASSumption!


8 posted on 07/07/2013 1:34:36 PM PDT by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: Sarah Barracuda

Oh, my God... those two little girls.


9 posted on 07/07/2013 1:38:21 PM PDT by floralamiss ("For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.")
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To: BenLurkin

And it “might” have been something else.


10 posted on 07/07/2013 1:38:22 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: expat2
The aircraft rotated about its center of gravity, sending the tail downward, to contact the sea-wall/berm.

Actually, THAT is the only way that the tail could make contact, and break off precisely where it did.

Even with the NOSE UP during NORMAL landing , the underbelly of the tail is parallel and above the groundline.

Here's a takeoff photo showing an angle that would cause tail impact, were it that 'high' (angle of attack) during landing.

Notice where tail is torn.


11 posted on 07/07/2013 1:39:12 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: Sarah Barracuda

Wow, I heard people disregarding an eyewitness that reported the airplane cartwheeled, but it looks like there was definitely a post impact vertical component. That is amazing more people weren’t killed.


12 posted on 07/07/2013 1:39:46 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: Sarah Barracuda

Wow!

It came close to flipping over.

You should post that as its own thread on NewsActivism.


13 posted on 07/07/2013 1:40:30 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: BenLurkin
It is certainly true that "Automation Complacency" is setting in.

For example, take the GPS navigator out of the car of anybody who is under 30 and watch the results as they attempt to get around. It will be comical.

14 posted on 07/07/2013 1:40:59 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: Sarah Barracuda
I wonder if the flight crew of the plane waiting to take off happened to get that as video.
Talk about a ring-side seat!... and probably on the radio screaming Go Around! Go Around!
15 posted on 07/07/2013 1:42:43 PM PDT by grobdriver
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To: USNBandit

Its amazing after seeing that, that only 2 people died..and I feel horrible for those two little girls who were coming here to LA to attend a summer camp, they were probably thrown out of the plane on impact. From the looks of it it looks like pilot error, which was the theory from the beginning. He went too low to the ground, realized his mistake and was trying to push the plane back up but the tail hit the runway causing it to skid


16 posted on 07/07/2013 1:43:52 PM PDT by Sarah Barracuda
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To: Sarah Barracuda; expat2; UCANSEE2; Georgia Girl 2; Born to Conserve; nuconvert

SEE LINK IN post #6.

Thank you Sarah. I’d say that those who survived this crash were very, very lucky. The witnesses who said it cartwheeled were correct. That there were only two deaths seems a miracle.


17 posted on 07/07/2013 1:45:04 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: BenLurkin

I dont know how to post a thread, if you could post the video I would really appreciate it. Someone posted this video linked up to CNN


18 posted on 07/07/2013 1:45:27 PM PDT by Sarah Barracuda
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To: USNBandit
NewsBreaker ‏@NewsBreaker 33s NEW: Deborah Hersman, Chair of NTSB: 7 seconds prior to impact, a call to increase speed was made on the CVR -
19 posted on 07/07/2013 1:47:28 PM PDT by Sarah Barracuda
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To: BenLurkin
Is anyone listening to this FAA woman doing the live press conference on FNC?

She is speaking to everyone like they are special needs 1st graders.

I swear, what is it with democrats and talking to us like we are stupid children?

20 posted on 07/07/2013 1:47:52 PM PDT by Prole
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To: Sarah Barracuda
Yeah, Deb speaks like a true 0bama believer.

She's a fool, and talks to everyone like they are fools.

21 posted on 07/07/2013 1:49:21 PM PDT by Prole
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To: Prole

From what I can gather it sounds like their approach speed was to low and either it stalled, or the crew attempted to go full throtle and pull up, which lead to a stall.


22 posted on 07/07/2013 1:50:24 PM PDT by LukeL (Barack Obama: Jimmy Carter 2 Electric Boogaloo)
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To: Sarah Barracuda

I can see why witnesses said cartwheel now.


23 posted on 07/07/2013 1:51:53 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (Unindicted Co-conspirators: The Mainstream Media)
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To: LukeL
Yep.

BTW, Hersman is a registered rat. I figured that's why she is speaking to everyone like they are all stupid. It just gets on my nerves, that's all.

Check out her profile on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deborah_Hersman

24 posted on 07/07/2013 1:52:15 PM PDT by Prole
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To: Sarah Barracuda

For some reason the CNN video doesn’t play for me. Here’s the video on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEDZerwU7uE


25 posted on 07/07/2013 1:54:02 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: Born to Conserve

Classic situational awareness issues, along with the Asian Never-question-the-captain thing, I now believe.

If you can’t land an aircraft without electronic aids under almost perfect conditions, on a straight-in approach, with no wind issues, you don’t belong in the cockpit.

Something distracted the crew. IMHO, they’ll find they were buried in the tech, (it has happened before) and didn’t notice the problem until it was too late.

You can fix a lot of things, but you just can’t fix the human issues.


26 posted on 07/07/2013 1:54:41 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: BenLurkin
“Pilots have to make what’s called a visual approach, they have to look at the runway and judge their descent and land accordingly.

They also have the PAPI lights. I know the pilots are busy in the cockpit, but I wonder if they paid any attention to them? An accident is not usually caused by one thing, but by a whole chain of events.

27 posted on 07/07/2013 1:56:58 PM PDT by Mark17 (My body is in California, but my heart is in the Philippines.)
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To: Mark17

PAPI was also out according to several reports


28 posted on 07/07/2013 1:57:51 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (Unindicted Co-conspirators: The Mainstream Media)
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To: NonValueAdded

yeah at first I never believed that it cartwheeled but now I see why many believed that it did..basically from that press conference that the pilot was a moron, this was pilot error, he wanted increased speed even though he was so low to the ground


29 posted on 07/07/2013 1:58:09 PM PDT by Sarah Barracuda
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To: NonValueAdded
NewsBreaker ‏@NewsBreaker 3m NEW: Pilot of #Asiana 214 called for a "go around" 1.5 secs before the plane crashed at #SFO
30 posted on 07/07/2013 2:00:12 PM PDT by Sarah Barracuda
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To: Prole

Maybe she is going slow for people who don’t speak English as their first language?

It that’s no the reason, then it is just plain insulting.


31 posted on 07/07/2013 2:01:35 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: BenLurkin
Right on. Going visual with water at a lower level than the runway could have be part of the too low approach. If the runway was level with the water (impossible) he was probably in a good glide path for landing at threshold.
32 posted on 07/07/2013 2:03:22 PM PDT by Logical me
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To: Sarah Barracuda

If you have ever seen video of the United 232 crash, it also appears to cartwheel, but that was just part of the plane that broke off the fuselage.


33 posted on 07/07/2013 2:03:39 PM PDT by LukeL (Barack Obama: Jimmy Carter 2 Electric Boogaloo)
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To: Clint N. Suhks; advertising guy; Biggirl; Fudd Fan; MagUSNRET

WOW!

Ping to actual crash footage:

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2013/07/07/vo-plane-sf-plane-crash-on-cam.courtesy-fred-hayes.html


34 posted on 07/07/2013 2:07:36 PM PDT by carriage_hill (Guns kill people, pencils misspell words, cars drive drunk & spoons make you fat.)
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To: NonValueAdded
PAPI was also out according to several reports

I see. I did not know that. I was an air traffic controller for 20 years, so I saw my share of aircraft on final. We had VASI lights, but they are not much different from PAPI. I would not be surprised to see the FAA require that either VASI/PAPI or ILS glide slope be operational at all times. We shall see. Thanks for the info.

35 posted on 07/07/2013 2:08:02 PM PDT by Mark17 (My body is in California, but my heart is in the Philippines.)
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To: SamAdams76
There was a nice little joke in Flight a while back on this topic:
In a few years time there will be two occupants of the cockpit - a pilot and a dog. The pilot is there to feed the dog; the dog is there to bite the pilot if he tries to touch anything.
36 posted on 07/07/2013 2:09:12 PM PDT by expat2
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To: carriage_hill

watchin the fireman’s procession home

http://www.kpho.com/category/224303/kphocom-local-live-streaming


37 posted on 07/07/2013 2:10:19 PM PDT by advertising guy (Phoenix...........where a prick in the butt ain't sexual.............it's a cactus)
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To: carriage_hill

The fuselage stayed mostly intact, though I have no idea how. That saved HUNDREDS of lives.


38 posted on 07/07/2013 2:26:04 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: BenLurkin

A case of premature de-elevation.


39 posted on 07/07/2013 2:33:42 PM PDT by Wally_Kalbacken
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40 posted on 07/07/2013 2:46:20 PM PDT by RedMDer (When immigrants cannot or will not assimilate, its really just an invasion. Throw them out!)
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To: advertising guy

Just gut-wrenching. RIP, ‘HotShots’...

< /SALUTE>


41 posted on 07/07/2013 2:55:19 PM PDT by carriage_hill (Guns kill people, pencils misspell words, cars drive drunk & spoons make you fat.)
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To: BenLurkin
I agree that the chart is very interesting.

This looks it's going to be a lot like the Costa Concordia in Italy -
The captain was sightseeing right before the incident.

42 posted on 07/07/2013 2:57:40 PM PDT by tpmintx (Gun free zones are hunting preserves for unarmed people.)
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To: tcrlaf

That was just amazing, considering the initial and secondary impacts. I posted on yesterday’ crash thread, several witnesses decribing “cartwheeling’, and now I see it! So lucky it didn’t flip-over and disintegrate/explode completely, on secondary impact.

God was truly on-scene...


43 posted on 07/07/2013 3:02:21 PM PDT by carriage_hill (Guns kill people, pencils misspell words, cars drive drunk & spoons make you fat.)
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To: tcrlaf
I agree. The sturdy construction of the Boeing 777 fuselage is amazing. The impact video shows the immediate post-impact airframe stresses as the plane rolled violently, with alternate wings up in the air. Then the whole airframe slams down and spins INTACT.

"The fuselage stayed mostly intact, though I have no idea how. That saved HUNDREDS of lives."

44 posted on 07/07/2013 3:05:31 PM PDT by Thud
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To: NonValueAdded

Yeah, she skimmed the water a bit it seems.


45 posted on 07/07/2013 3:08:40 PM PDT by miliantnutcase
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To: tpmintx

That thought occurred to me as well. I imagine the cockpit recorder might answer the question,


46 posted on 07/07/2013 3:09:07 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: BenLurkin
That thought occurred to me as well. I imagine the cockpit recorder might answer the question...

Excuse me if this is a silly question, but didn't the flight crew survive? Has anyone asked them what happened?

47 posted on 07/07/2013 3:12:24 PM PDT by Senator_Blutarski
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To: Senator_Blutarski

They are probably answering lots of questions right now.


48 posted on 07/07/2013 3:18:47 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: BenLurkin
They have a history, folks.


49 posted on 07/07/2013 3:19:46 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Prole
Is anyone listening to this FAA woman doing the live press conference on FNC?
She is speaking to everyone like they are special needs 1st graders.

I swear, what is it with democrats and talking to us like we are stupid children?


That level is probably appropriate for speaking to the press, (D) or (R)...

50 posted on 07/07/2013 3:27:28 PM PDT by az_gila
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