Skip to comments.Liberals Praise Pat Robertson After Shocking Transgender Comments…
Posted on 07/30/2013 8:58:36 PM PDT by Olog-hai
Christian Broadcast Network leader and personality Pat Robertson, 83, is known for his controversial commentary. And his most recent remarks about the transgender community are no exception. Contrary to what one might expect, though, he struck an understanding tone in addressing these individuals and even made some comments about sin that will raise eyebrows.
When a viewer named David wrote in to ask how he should refer to two female co-workers who are transgender and who have surgically changed sexes, Robertson delivered some surprising advice.
Robertson called the procedure radical and proceeded to make the most intriguing and controversial comments on the subjectviews that are earning him praise among left-of-center blogs that typically lambaste his comments about gays.
I dont think theres any sin associated with that, he continued. I dont condemn somebody for doing that.
(Excerpt) Read more at theblaze.com ...
Guess Pat missed Deuteronomy 22:5, at the very least.
Liberals Praise Pat Robertson After Shocking Transgender Comments: I Dont Think Theres Any Sin Associated With That
That's what I was thinking.
What's with the scare quotes; if gender-reassignment surgery isn't a "radical" procedure than what is?
You are not alone in being torn by this kind of issue. Unfortunately there are many here whose ability to discuss these topics has not progressed much beyond the third grade schoolyard.
“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them.” Luke 6:32
Regardless that many unrepentant sinners like to depict Jesus as a "Mr. Nice Guy" who forgives sins (so why not keep on sinning?), Matthew 10:34-39 indicates that Jesus said that he did not come to bring peace to the earth, but division.
In fact, as I have indicated in related threads, 1 Corinthians 5 shows that Paul effectively "cast the first stone" when he strongly advised the church in Corinth to expel the members who were practicing incest. (They would have been put to death in OT times.)
Also, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 not only warns, "do not be deceived" concerning things like sexual immorality, but also note the following. Paul had also indicated that certain members of that church had been involved in such immorality, but had evidently accepted God's grace to repent and turn their lives around.
I am a raccoon trapped in a human body. They have yet to offer me a surgical solution
While the Bible doesn’t directly refer to transgender, it does say that in the beginning God created them male and female. Also, in Jeremiah, God says that before we were born - He knew us. So, I believe the sex of the child is by God’s plan and design and people should accept who they are and how they were created. In my opinion, to change your sex is calling God a liar and a screw up.
Just my opinion, of course.
People have been born with all sorts of abnormalities. People are born with cleft pallets, with closed nasal passages, etc.
Is it not possible, in your mind, that one might be born with both male and female attributes, and that life would be easier for such people if they were allowed to make a choice?
I doubt, very seriously, that God will look kindly on those who pretend to know his heart on these issues, and use that pretentious, prideful and judgmental attitude to justify actions that are less than Christian, towards such people.
Yes, sin is sin. But the jails are full sinners. The Churches are also full of sinners.
Why not picket or protest shoplifting or purse snatching or any number of other sins?
I do not get the obsession some have with these issues.
They are sad cases, but I do not have the authority to call it “sin” when someone is actually born with both male and female physical traits and hormones.
It does happen.
wow...no sin with changing the way God made them? This man is looney...
Regarding our bodies, Job noted in Job 10:11 that God has essentially clothed our spirits with skin and flesh.
The additional passages you cited are also rejections of behavior that explicitly prohibited (i.e. incest) in other areas of the Bible. But this doesn’t deflect from the argument that, I think, Rev. Robertson is making by saying that he can’t call it a sin, presumably because there isn’t a Bible passage that says so.
Birth defects are different. A person, for the most part comes equipped with male or female parts. Your post is just stupid. Being born male or female is Not a birth defect, it is a psychological problem which develops.
Of course, it is extremely rude, not to mention cruel, to even draw attention to one's physical attributes that are considered less attractive. Laying that aside, to consider such things as dark hair on upper lips, pronounced "adam's apples," etc. as a sign that that woman might be a "genetic mistake" is incorrect.
Both sexes have male and female sexual attributes (if I'm making a mistake in my description, please excuse me here), those sexual attributes are more noticeable at different stages in their lives, i.e. male babies might even have droplets of milk seeping from their breasts shortly after birth and many women develop "male patterned baldness" and long dark hairs appearing on their chin after a certain age, these have nothing whatsoever to do with genetic "mistakes," but they do indicate, especially for middle age women, their estrogen hormone falling faster than one would like.
Likewise, some men after a certain age, develop osteoporosis (fragile and breaking bones) when the male hormone, testorone, falls dangerously low, which also happens to women of advancing age.
Fortunately, medical research has advanced to such a stage where some genetic medical conditions are no longer considered a "fact of life," but medically treatable.
Unless one comes from a very backward segment of society, undeveloped male or female sex organs by a certain age, no longer is thought to be freakish but while not commonplace, certainly treatable, like many other medical conditions.
Lastty, are there men and women who have never had a strong desire for sex, most definitely; does that make one homosexual, most definitely not.
Having a low sex drive (low testorone or "low T" in today's advertisements) makes no one homosexual, it only means one's desire for sex isn't as strong as another's.
I suggest you stop posting on this subject, and that you also stop calling people “stupid” — until you study this issue and know what you are talking about.
You clearly do not currently understand the medical issues, and I also suspect you are not an expert on the moral issues involved, either:
“Why not picket or protest shoplifting or purse snatching or any number of other sins?”
Because the people who do those ADMIT it is wrong.
Sorry, but the church IS expected to judge those who call themselves Christians:
“5 I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among yousomething that even pagans dont do. I am told that a man in your church is living in sin with his stepmother. 2 You are so proud of yourselves, but you should be mourning in sorrow and shame. And you should remove this man from your fellowship.
3 Even though I am not with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit. And as though I were there, I have already passed judgment on this man 4 in the name of the Lord Jesus. You must call a meeting of the church. I will be present with you in spirit, and so will the power of our Lord Jesus. 5 Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns.
6 Your boasting about this is terrible. Dont you realize that this sin is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough? 7 Get rid of the old yeast by removing this wicked person from among you. Then you will be like a fresh batch of dough made without yeast, which is what you really are. Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us. 8 So let us celebrate the festival, not with the old bread of wickedness and evil, but with the new bread of sincerity and truth.
9 When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. 10 But I wasnt talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. 11 I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Dont even eat with such people.
12 It isnt my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. 13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, You must remove the evil person from among you.
Being born with a penis makes you a male. The penis is not abnormal. It isn’t a deformity.
“18 Run from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body. 19 Dont you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself, 20 for God bought you with a high price. So you must honor God with your body.”
Some things are just perverted. Homosexuality is weird. So is a man pretending he is a woman, or the reverse. One needn’t be a Christian to see it violates natural law - that males are males, and females are females.
There are a very tiny percentage of people born with abnormal chromosomes. Those are special cases, and I am quite willing to leave them in God’s hands and mercy. But the first part of the Gospel is the call to repent. And sometimes, it is pretty darn obvious what needs to be repented of...
Why are you seemingly switching the subject from transgender people who's sex is obvious at birth, to people born with male and female attributes that arguably do have a choice to eventually decide their sex?
What about people who want to cut off their legs or have themselves surgically treated to become paraplegics? Should that happen, too?
I forgot to mention the following in my previous post. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 warns, “do not be decieved” into thinking that you will inherit the Kingdom of God concerning things like sexual immorality. But also note that that passage also indicates that certain members of that church had formerly engaged in sexual immorality but had evidently accepted God’s grace to repent and turn their lives around.
I can hold this view and still oppose gay marriage. I can hold this view and still be concerned about who might be camping and in the same tent with an underage male or female in the Scouts. I can hold this view and still be very conservative as far as law and policy are concerned.
However, in the end, if someone feels they were born the wrong sex? God has shown us, clearly, that it does happen in many obvious cases. Why is it my duty to determine the validity of cases which may be very less obvious?
Yes, some people are bent on mutilation and have little moral justification for doing the sex changes. I think they punish themselves, and I do not need to pile on. Their lives are already miserable enough. These are medical and moral decisions which MUST be made by the individual. There is no unborn child involved, so these are clear cases that, under any Conservative Constitutional construction, would seem to fall under more than one of our Amendments.
I do not comment on these types of issues very often, but it does concern me that so many people on these threads seem obsessed with this stuff.
I suggest prayer for those involved, and I suggest that I can be very prolife and very anti gay marriage, and very conservative, yet still be very “pro choice” about such medical procedures, as long as there are safeguards, waiting periods and “informed consent”.
That is, of course, clear mental illness, and it cuts deep that you bring it up, since a mentally ill family member once went to a hospital and demanded exactly that.
Try to be more level headed here. There are few medical reasons to remove a limb, and no medical doctor will do so without justification.
thiscrap is being shoved in ourfaces by the militants of these groups. thgey want all thecrap they wantto gothroughpaidforby us, tey want theirsin tobe taught asnormal and od-blessed, and they want to silence those that are critical ofthem in any way. and they want to mess up your kids as well if theycanget a hold of them long enough toconfuse them and turn tem against you.
again i say look around and wake up.
Nope, don’t claim to be a medical expert, but that doesn’t mean that this is a medical issue - does it? I stand by what I said - God created them male and female -
Men do not really become women nor vice versa. XX and XY chromosomes do not change; nor do man’s hips become woman’s (to allow passage of a baby through a birth canal); nor does an XX human start producing spermatozoa any more than an XY human suddenly start producing eggs (women actually have all the eggs they will ever produce at birth, approximately 400,000 egg cells).
Jesus never forgave the unrepentant, but rather proclaimed “woe” to them. That’s evident all over the Gospels.
How far does this informed consent go? is the person getting the required surgeries going to inform any and all persons they involve in sexual relationships before the sex occurs? Will these people be chaste until Marriage then stay monogamous at a higher or lower rate than the rest of the population? Will the taxpayers be informed if they are made to pay? And what recourse is there if a taxpayer does not consent to this use of tax monies?
Do you suppose that soon sex reassignment surgery will be accepted and not be looked at much more than somebody who goes for a nose job?
They are now forcing young girls to share a bathroom with a boy who thinks he's a girl. What about the girls who know they are girls and think he's a boy--we hurt many for the one?
The military is becoming ever more abusive to Christians who don't toe the line.
San Antonio wants to keep people from ever holding office if they've spoken negatively about the alphabet soup of homosexual.
It seems far fetched today but do you think it is possible that sex reassignment surgery will become so ordinary that parents will start having it done to children?
All of the other happenings seemed far fetched yesterday, but it is coming on us like a tsunami today. At some point I believe we need to heed the warning signs.
Where does it stop? Nobody has said.
I agree with Mr. Robertson. We are dealing with the physical flesh, which can have its abnormalities. I believe Transgender people may have been twins or something happened during the growth process inside the womb. I learned during my medical class many years, that there were medical abnormalities where a baby is born without genital (Boy nor Girl). Also if many of you notice, a female can have a male voice, facial hair, and may have attributes that of a male. Just like a male can have feminine attributes.
As for the Bible, I agree with Mr Robertson it is not a sin, but simply a physical abnormality that with today technology can be corrected once the child is a little older for him or her to decide which side the child leans to. It is not good to operate on them when infants only to learn later that was not the sex the child desire. For example, I recall a documentary where a child was born with no genitals - period. The parents decided they wanted a girl so they had the child operated. As the child grew older, the child became frustrated because the child felt male not female. When he became an adult he had a sex change operation to undue the damage of making him a girl when all the time he felt like a male.
Also I used to believe what many of you here think, it is a SIN. I can tell you from my experience it made me rethink. As a child, my family raised chickens. One day we had to round them up because we were moving out. As I was among them, at the corner of my eye I thought I was dreaming. I swore the hen just crowed. I shook my head in disbelief and thought I was just dreaming. Again it crowed and I turned to find the hen crowing. I thought this cannot be. I grabbed the hen, and I realized something I did not notice. The Hen had a body of a Hen, but had Talons of a Rooster, and a Comb of a Rooster. It made sense to me, the Hen hatched some chicks a year before but were taken away because she was trying to kill them. She would be motherly to them one day and turn around and try to kill them. I thought “this cannot be - God makes female and male period”. I then realize what if this Hen was meant to be a twin and just did not grow right. Can it be possible that it can happen to a Human? YES
I do not believe God makes mistake, I believe Children born with abnormalities is God’s way to make us see how we treat others. I will not jump on the bandwagon to be rude or crude because one is born like that.
what are we going do?...I can't hate her....God doesn't hate her...I wish HE would enlighten us down here but maybe that's part of HIS plan....all we can really do is the best we can...HE has the answers, because I sure don't...
I had thought that also but apparently it is the only way some of those people recover, nothing else works.
There are a surprisingly large number of amputation fixations in the world, and they are psychiatric mysteries.
About the only grand example of successful treatment comes from South America. It began with a young surgeon posted to a large insane asylum. Four patients had amputation fixations, and were unresponsive to all psychiatric drugs given them. They could not function at all and were typically kept heavily medicated. Otherwise they were despondent to the point of suicide.
So after years worth of consultations, debates and arguments, he finally got permission to surgically remove the leg of one patient who was fixated on just that leg.
Traumatic to about everyone, after his leg was removed, his psychiatric problems vanished. After extensive psychological testing showed him entirely normal, he was released to return to his family.
The second patient has a similar result, taking him from being unable to function to normal and healthy.
A third patient had a similar result, but his fixation was on a leg and one of his arms, but just up to his elbow. After removing his leg, he showed considerable improvement, but he was very clear that it was temporary as he was then really compelled to lose that part of his arm as well.
Again, as with the second amputation, he ended up almost normal, but did need a little medication on a long term basis, well within normal range.
The fourth patient however, only got minimal result from an amputation, and needed continued hospitalization.
After these four, however, the national medical association called a halt to any further therapeutic amputations. They were just overwhelmed, so figured that it would take decades or more to try and get a handle on things.
However, the Internet has other ideas. When word got out about amputation fixations, people from around the world started to connect with each other to discover it is not just a few, isolated cases.
And there are other groups involved with similar psychiatric problems: men who want to be castrated, and those who want to be trepanned (hole(s) drilled in skull), being among the most common."
I wasn't being flip. I am curious about the different reaction to sex reassignment surgery and how people relate to the amputation fixations.
I have been puzzling this and trying to understand it for a couple of weeks now. It has me baffled.
I'm opposed to both types of mutilation, unless a hermaphrodite makes a decision to determine his/her gender as an adult or at least a teen. I am against parents deciding the sex of the child.
The above post is taken from this thread..
Yeah, in the beginning when everything was “perfect.” These days there are naturally effeminate men and women who get made fun of for having masculine features. Just as there are babies born ambiguous, there are variations less blatant. There are women with hormonal imbalances and men who just can’t....well we won’t go there. But while the men who dress and act like women freak me out sometimes I know that they are (no offense meant) freaks of nature, just as in other mental, physical and emotional issues facing humans today. It’s a wiring problem in the brain imo and it gets formed in the womb.
SO what do you make of a woman who develops hardly any to no breasts, has bushy eyebrows and grows hair in manly places, has a deeper voice and straight hips? We were served by a person in our local restaurant a couple times with just such characteristics, at first we couldn’t make out if it was a guy or girl but it was confirmed she was female. The only thing that gave it away was her mannerisms and then we heard her name get called.
What you’re describing is more common than most people realize.
People born with both male and female sexual attributes are called chimeras. They are the result of fraternal twin zygotes that merged in the womb to become a single baby.
These people aren’t sinners.
Female or male fraternal twins who become chimeras don’t have the same problem.
I’m sure she has other female parts that would identify her. Just because she has no breasts doesn’t mean she is a man. Just that they are undeveloped. Possibly she has a high dose of testosterone in her which could account for the deeper voice. How do you know she grows hair in manly places? Just curious about that statement.
I’m sure that if a DNA test were done, her chromosomes would definitely show she is a female = regardless of having some male tendencies.
I certainly wouldn’t call someone who dresses like a man and is a woman, or vice versa - a freak of nature. This is a complicated issue and we can debate it forever, but what’s the point? You are entitled to your opinion, and I - to mine. Basically, man is a fallen, sinful human being. If Adam and Eve would have obeyed God in the Garden of Eden -we would certainly live in a perfect world. However, that didn’t happen.
I said no offense meant when stating freak of nature. Not calling anyone a “freak” simply meaning that nature went awry as it does in humankind ever since the Fall. I happen to have someone very close to me with related issues and I have much empathy for them.
“How do you know she grows hair in manly places? Just curious about that statement.”
Because I can clearly see that she has a slight mustache and hair on the arms/knuckles. I myself have been diagnosed with hyperandrogenism they’ve just never told me what it stems from, could be either PCOS or adrenal benign tumor but I never went for the adrenal scan. Ultrasound came back normal for ovaries but they prescribed some drugs that just make me ill so I said to heck with it and I just deal with the cosmetic issues but lately I’m wondering if the imbalance affects my quality of life more than I know...
Pat lost it a long time ago. I remember when he said that a man could leave his wife if she had Alzheimers because she wasn’t really “her” anymore.
If I might venture to assist...I think condemnation for transgenders is dependent on their motives for undertaking such procedures. It is true that gender is a good deal more elastic than was originally thought. And it is also true that assorted genetic factors can influence expression of the various secondary sexual characteristics - like body hair, hip widening, change of voice pitch and so on. These variations, which can be extreme, highlight that God made us individuals and in and of themselves, are morally quite neutral. If a woman has a particularly prominent adam's apple it might look odd, but its not her fault, no more than it is someone's "fault" that they have blue eyes, or blood group AB+ or one arm slightly longer than the other.
However, although it is possible for someone to genetically be a "woman in a man's body" (or vice-versa) such things are extremely rare. In most cases I would suggest that transgenders just "feel" they have impulses more commonly associated with the opposite gender that they need to express. IOW, the growth in the transgender habit is mostly a modern day phenomenan caused by cultural confusion and fueled by our technical ability to conduct sex changes. I've known several transgenders and they all had deep personality issues. Some had mental problems, some were simply attention seekers, all were deeply disatisfied with their lot in life. Basically they are unhappy people, and they feel that changing genders will somehow make them happier. In most cases it won't of course, because their real problems are on a much deeper spiritual level.
So I guess I have come to the conclusion that we have to treat them as individuals (as I think we have to with everyone). However, the fact that they are transgenders does not give them special privileges. Its not right to shy away from pointing out their shortcomings if they really have them. Not only is that dishonest, it doesnt even do them any favors. The simple fact is that most transgenders are victims of wishful thinking, not faulty genetics.
Pat is provably a false prophet - always has been.
He already did in His Word. He wants ALL to be saved - so He told them The Truth because He loved them.
I have a feeling that Jesus expects me to treat such people with the same respect and compassion that Jesus, himself, showed the prostitutes of his day.
Big differenence - the prostitutes receive Jesus and His Truth and REPENT immediately once they heard the Truth. They didn't continue in their lifestyle and form a parade? And He destroyed S&D because 'that cancer' spread and overtook the place. And He took out His own from there - but the one that was sympathetic towards them turned around and what happened?
Love is telling the Truth and love would receive it. They hate the Truth and anyone telling them the Truth - it's so bad and twisted now in our generation - The Truth is considered hate speech.
But you do have the authority to tell them the truth but it appears you already bought the lie. Telling them the truth and walking on your way is the way you deal with it. Not sitting and analyzing it because God has already spoken. Getting drawn into it is false compassion and can be seen as 'lukewarm' and now that's your problem.