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An Open Question for Geographiliacs: Does Antarctica's 14,000,000 km2 Include the ice Shelves?
But A Lack of Sources is the Problem | 10 August 2013 | RACookPE1978

Posted on 08/10/2013 7:57:52 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE

Working on some area and latitude calculations for sea ice.

many hundreds of on-line references report that the Antarctic continent is 14,000,000 square kilometers: A nice, convenient even round number.

That's obviously always been rounded off as one source copies from everybody, or just never measured accurately. Neither seems correct.

the NSIRDC tracks sea ice, and they have explicitly written me that their "Antarctic Sea Ice"totals do NOT include the permanent ice shelves around many areas of that continent. Fine, no problem: and it even makes sense: Why should a federal agency track "permanent sea shelves" when they can get more money and attention by tracking the ever-changing sea ice around the permanent ice shelves? /sarcasm

Nevertheless, I need you - the esteemed readers and writers of FR, to help me determine if that 14,000,000 square kilometers includes just the land area, or if it includes the ice shelves (Ronne, Ross, Filchner, etc) around the land area.


TOPICS: Outdoors; Science; Travel; Weather
KEYWORDS: antarctic; antarctica; area; continent; globalwarming
Any body have an older paper-copy atlas or encyclopedia or reference that will be more accurate than (even more) on-line searches?
1 posted on 08/10/2013 7:57:52 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

Depends on the sea level and the extent to which the ice is grounded.


2 posted on 08/10/2013 8:03:28 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
My old paper Britannica didn't have anything useful in it about the ice measurements.

I do have a 100ft tape and a warm sweater I'm willing to loan you if you want to go measure it. ;)

/johnny

3 posted on 08/10/2013 8:04:53 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
Under Maritime law I believe its the actual land mass plus a few km offshore.

Check some of the multinational treaties for exactness.

But is seems to me the calculation you want would really just be the actual land mass..

4 posted on 08/10/2013 8:06:29 PM PDT by montanajoe
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

What difference at this point does it make?

Being a very kind person I didn’t post a pic.


5 posted on 08/10/2013 8:07:42 PM PDT by ThomasThomas ("We make a living by what we get. We make a life by what we give.")
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

Or the secret entrances that Admiral Byrd flew into to capture the dinosaurs?


6 posted on 08/10/2013 8:08:48 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I aim to raise a million plus for Gov. Palin. What'll you do?.)
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To: montanajoe; neverdem; cogitator; Nachum; SunkenCiv; MHGinTN; EODGUY; SoothingDave

Reason is: The seasonal Antarctic sea ice “wraps around” the somewhat irregular land mass and those permanent ice shelves: The entire result is a “cap” centered on the south pole.

So, if I know the land area (that 14,000,000 sq km) and the permanent ice shelves (1,200,000 sq km), plus the sea ice in each month, then I can get pretty accurate estimates of the latitude of the edge of the sea ice as it expands and contracts.

But, should that sea ice be “started” at 14,000,000 sq km; or further out at 15,200,000 sq km?


7 posted on 08/10/2013 8:14:19 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: montanajoe

Yeah - Usually, that’s the old 3 mile, then 12 mile “cannon fire” limit of a nation’s land.

Back before Obama and the democrats started to refuse to care about America’s power, that is.


8 posted on 08/10/2013 8:16:05 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

Yes, I do have an older atlas.
But it is packed and at home.

Location unknown.

Otherwise: tekeli-li!


9 posted on 08/10/2013 8:17:14 PM PDT by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free.....)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

the 1998 World Almanac says 5,400,000 square miles.


10 posted on 08/10/2013 8:23:44 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( ==> sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

Slight problem...my Rand McNally atlas from 1930 makes it clear that, for much of the continent, they don’t know where the sea ice ends and the land begins...


11 posted on 08/10/2013 8:35:11 PM PDT by JoeDetweiler
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To: smokingfrog

13,986,000 Sounds like what they rounded off from to get that 14,000,000 sq km’s 8<)


12 posted on 08/10/2013 8:36:14 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: JoeDetweiler

And, sometimes, simply admitting that they “don’t know” might be the most accurate answer possible.


13 posted on 08/10/2013 8:37:27 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
For your purposes wouldn’t just picking a number for a baseline work..seems to me you just want a the delta.
14 posted on 08/10/2013 8:44:10 PM PDT by montanajoe
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

I just don’t know. But, thanks for asking.


15 posted on 08/10/2013 8:48:43 PM PDT by Postman (Flies get too litle credit. Boehner gets too much.)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE; Tax-chick
An Open Question for Geographiliacs: Does Antarctica's 14,000,000 km2 Include the ice Shelves?

What the heck is a Geographiliac? Someone who has to be very careful not to start talking about geography, for fear he'll keep doing so until it kills him?

16 posted on 08/10/2013 9:00:42 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: ThomasThomas

What difference at this point does it make?

Being a very kind person I didn’t post a pic.

Thanks. I’ve always depended on the kindness of strangers


17 posted on 08/10/2013 9:18:35 PM PDT by Cyman
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

“Antarctica covers an area of some 13 million sq. km. In only around 0.4% of this area is the rock exposed.”

From the Bedmap Project. This webpage shows a map of Antarctica without the ice.

http://nsidc.org/data/atlas/news/bedrock_elevation.html


18 posted on 08/10/2013 10:04:23 PM PDT by DJtex
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

ping for later


19 posted on 08/10/2013 10:19:04 PM PDT by scrabblehack
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

> just the land area, or if it includes the ice shelves (Ronne, Ross, Filchner, etc) around the land area.

Much of the ice of Antarctica is below sealevel, or ‘floating’ above what would otherwise be ocean — iow, even if it melted, it wouldn’t have an impact on sealevel.


20 posted on 08/11/2013 4:55:33 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's no coincidence that some "conservatives" echo the hard left.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; P-Marlowe

*** Or the secret entrances that Admiral Byrd flew into to capture the dinosaurs?***

Hollow earth ping!


21 posted on 08/11/2013 5:54:56 AM PDT by Gamecock (Member: NAACAC)
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To: Cyman
Thanks. I’ve always depended on the kindness of strangers

Blanche? Is that you?

22 posted on 08/11/2013 12:54:34 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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