Posted on 08/12/2013 5:19:05 PM PDT by BenLurkin
No rabies vaccination, not altered. The owner should be castrated if not put down.
And an example of a pit bull with rottie coloring: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am2_Hv4hV4c
Every pit bull owner says the same thing. They are good owners and others are bad owners.
What I know is that the theoretical condition where only those mythical “good” owners will own all the pits has never and will never happen. The blood shed will continue until people are held responsible for their dogs and required to keep a special license and specialized enclosures up to code etc. I don’t care who thinks that it won’t happen to them.
But no one will put down owners. The dogs will continue to kill and maim at unacceptable levels unless they are kept in specialized enclosures with people who are required to maintain specialized exotic animal permits including medical treatments and sufficient hazardous animal insurance.
There is no place in a civilized society for a breed of dog that must be handled with 100% accuracy or else it will kill. If you don’t neuter your beagle and don’t keep it’s vaccination shots up to date, how likely is it to kill if it gets out? I am not saying it can’t, I am pointing to statistics that detail one person in the US being killed every 13 days in the US by pit bulls. The absence of the neutering and vaccinations is a second though important issue.
One of my roommate’s friends brings her BIG pitties by occasionally.
One could not ask for nicer dogs.
Amazing how much more mellow they are when you don’t crop their ears, lop their tails, beat them, make them kill or be killed and just treat them humanely!
When a pit bull attacks the story is always the same. “he was so gentle and never bit anyone. I can’t believe he attacked for no reason.”
Recently a local two year old was killed by a pit bull. The owners and a man all trying to get the dog off the girl, unsuccesfully. The family couldn’t believe the dog turned vicious.
My neighbors dog was attacked three weeks ago. He survived, barely. The little dogs owner was punching the pit bull. The pitbull owner was yelling stop and the fireman next door was kicking the $hit out of the dog. It finally let go. Initially thought the victim dog was dead but he has survived but it was touch and go for a week.
Oh, and the police didn’t charge the owner of the pit bull because.....he lives next door to our corrupt police chief. This dog has killed cats, attacked four dogs and lunged at the throat of an elderly neighbor.
As I write this I cannot believe nothing has been done. It is only a matter of time before that pit bull kills someone here.
I believe you are right. I fear the dog will kill someone.
sarc/ What we really need right now is for someone to post a picture of a pit bull licking a child’s face. That always helps. /sarc
What’s amazing to me are the well treated pits who kill their owners or family members.
Here’s a stat you can put in your pipe and smoke. In thirty+ years, not one of my pits has ever shown an inkling of aggression toward another animal or human. Heck... my two pits and I just got inside from watching the chickens peck and scratch right before they roosted when I noticed this thread.
It’s too bad so many are so frightened due to the actions of a few bad apples, some here practically wetting themselves over pit bull bogies.
I know a lot of great bully dogs as well.
Another bad owner. Darn!
Many of them are not at all small. Of course there are many larger dogs.
A real pit bull is a large dog. A reported pit bull is a different kind of animal, usually a dog, and can be any size.
Cesar Milan is an exceptionally skilled dog trainer/psychologist. Unfortunately he is not available to train all Pit Bull owners.
YOUR Dogs do not constitute statistics. Statistically the sample size must be large enough to be relevant. 2 animals out of the population can sing in Mariache bands and it wouldn’t typify the breed. Smoke that.
It’s very hard for pit bull owners to understand this but the average person cares about others and does not consider ‘the job done’ as long as they personally are unaffected by public hazards. Some of us care what happens to others. We care that this breed is killing one person every 13 days in 2013, up from their prior run of one person every 20 days. That’s not including the human suffering and insurance costs of the far more numerous maimings.
I think Dachsunds have exceptionally beautiful heads.
“It’s too bad so many are so frightened due to the actions of a few bad apples, some here practically wetting themselves over pit bull bogies.”
I don’t consider the fact that 6% of the dog population (pit bulls) are responsible for 65% of the human deaths from dog attacks “the actions of a few bad apples” but I am well aware that pit bull supporters are strangers to statistics and general knowledge.
” practically wetting themselves over pit bull bogies.”
By posting about the denials regarding a health hazards? How dare we speak of something you’d like swept under the rug. It’s only human lives at stake after all... We should so what you do and listlessly blame people instead.
THIS is the only action I’ve ever seen on the part of pit bull supporters to address the problem the breed represents. They had their chance to organize and lobby the government to enact rules in response to the problem long long long time ago. But they don’t want anyone to do anything about this tragedy. What they want is for us to stop talking about it or they’ll insult us. Well your game of insulting and blaming is 100% ineffectual and now breed specific laws and criminal courts will handle the issue that pit bulls pose to human health. Pit bull supporters had their chance and did nothing.
I’d like to pop my neighbors dacshound between the eyes. That little runt barks at the air and me too. Quite piercing to the ears from that stunted hot dog with legs.
You must be one of those good owners.
Cesar Milan is an exceptionally skilled dog trainer/psychologist. Unfortunately he is not available to train all Pit Bull owners.
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Well, based on my research I don’t believe it is entirely the owner’s faults. Well cared for pit bulls kill their owners too.
Cesar Milan is part of the problem. Even if it were true that it a question of training the owner, he’s encouraging people to own these dogs even though he knows that he can’t train all the owners too. He knows many people will not train the pits to his specifications. Cesar has done nothing to address the problem. Why are pit bulls the only dog that must be trained EXACTLY RIGHT per his specifications lest they start killing people? Why are pit bull owners in such dire need of training that human lives depend upon it?
Shaking one’s head saying tsk tsk tsk is not a plan to reduce the deathtoll. It’s a plan to shift responsibility while the death toll climbs unabated.
I agree with your post #72.
“I think Dachsunds have exceptionally beautiful heads.”
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I think their heads are quite ugly including the one who climbed all over me on the couch. I was nice and petted him rather than drop kick him off the couch.
THe pit bull and its blood relatives were bred to kill. The problem is genetic. So the fact that we often hear of pit bulls running loose attacking and killing people means they probably are out there breeding with other domestic dogs too. Cross breeds and pit bull relatives then carry the genetic deficits that make them excellent killers.
It’s not the owners, people. Every breed of dog from poodle to pit has been owned by good and bad people. Dogs bred to fight like pits and pit relatives are the ones pushing the death toll up.
While the normal pits are 40lb dogs, they have been bred larger and larger for dog fighting. Michael Vick was not the first man to own fighting pit bulls. It’s an industry. At the link is a YouTube video of a purebred pit bull that weighs 150lbs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqhEDR85BJM
You do realize many states have dangerous dog laws that specifically forbid labeling an entire breed dangerous, do you not? That’s to keep hysterical fanatics from labeling numerous breeds like Dobermans, German Shepherds, mastiffs and yes, the American Pit Bull Terrier and its related, but far more rare cousins like the Bull Terrier, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier and the Patterdale Terrier “dangerous” simply because of breed or mix thereof.
More proof, as if any is needed, that a LOT of dog owners should not have dogs. The majority IMO and personal experience.
Dachshunds are a hunting dog. They are not really suited to being family pets. Especially those of half ass owners that have no clue as to training and the commitment of time that any dog needs and deserves. Dachshunds are high energy dogs that are difficult to train. The average dog owner is scarcely capable of taking proper care of a stuffed toy dog.
A dog is like having a toddler than never grows up. And those are the ones that are actually suited to be pets. Most dog owners think that they are doing a good job if they feed the animal, see to its medical needs and let it out in the yard twice a day to do its business. And then think their neighbors are being petty for complaining about the 5 hours a day of barking.
“...so many are so frightened due to the actions of a few bad apples,...”
Pit bulls are killing small children and adults - that does not fit into “a few bad apples” - death after death means they are deadly dogs. I would kill one if it came near me - before he attacked. If that pit bull is not on a leash, it is dead.
You are aware that not all locations drank the Kool-Aid right? Many states are enacting breed specific laws. The criminal case I posted earlier about a man being charged with murder because his dogs killed someone
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/31/california-pit-bull-owner-charged-with-murder-in-fatal-mauling/
Breed specific laws reliably target pit bulls and their relatives. Let those who labor to protect the “good name” of the dog proven most likely to kill deal with reality as BSL and murder charges mount up.
I fully support holding owners whose dogs maim or kill responsible and if appropriate, liable for manslaughter. I also am active in promoting pet law in my state.
Sounds great.
Current pet law doesn’t seem to be holding down the death rate. More must be done. Banning the breed or requiring they be classified as exotic animals complete with licensing, permits, special training and enclosures would help.
I got shouted down on a doggie thread for saying the exact same thing here, two years ago.
This one breed is causing carnage and death across the country, far out of proportion to its percentage of the pet dog population. I've known for decades that it's because of the breed's tendencies, that feral gangsta types like them so much (not the other way around).
It's high time that some state legislature get the ball rolling with laws that will protect the public from this exotic breed of animal.
Good to see you, Windflier. It’s been awhile.
Laws are changing but too slowly. How many lives lost, limbs lost, quality of life lost? I wish people had listened to you back then....
Let’s play your game for a moment. Let’s pretend “pit bulls” (a type, as opposed to an actual breed, BTW) were eliminated. So then, what would the gangbangers and druggies do? Cry in their cups?
Nope, they’d just go after some other breed or type of dog with man killing potential. Google Fila Brazielera (sic), neopolitan mastiff, cane corso and presa canario for starters. BSL does not and will not work.
One more thing. What if someone has a nasty Chesapeake Bay Retriever? Your dream does nothing about that dog.
Current gun laws aren’t stopping yutes from shooting each other in increasing numbers either. Shall we pass stronger gun control laws? That’ll work (eye roll).
You've been lucky, Nully.
My elderly mom kept a couple of pit bulls at her house for years after all us kids moved out. They were so vicious, that the family had to call ahead to make sure she chained them up and locked the gates and back door to her house before we could visit.
Let me tell you something. She treated those animals with the most loving kindness, and she didn't have their tails bobbed or ears cut when they were puppies, either. It made no difference. When we'd visit, those dogs would nearly kill themselves trying to get off their chains to get to us.
She also gave up trying to walk them, because they'd rip her arm off to get after people or other animals. Eventually, one of my brothers talked her into letting them go to an animal shelter for adoption or put down.
Pathological levels of political correctness span the gamut of serious issues facing us today. This is but one of them. Unfortunately the carnage will likely increase before state legislatures really get down to business on this.
At least we could potentially put down the crazy mean dogs
The people, we install as leaders. *sigh*
You really need to channel your energy, effort and focus on something else. The blinders you wear and your incurable tunnel vision will consume way too many hours of your existence. Just my opinion.
People aren’t dogs. Dogs are property, no matter how much we love them. And some types of dog property are killing disproportionately.
The death toll caused by pit bulls has gone up and pit bulls are property that cost our society too much. When you rolled your eyes, the death toll didn’t go down one body or even one maiming. Your technique for resolving this issue, eye rolling, is not effective.
After following your reasoning and reading your posts I find that your judgment is poor and your opinion is self serving and worthless. Just my opinion.
Let’s review here. I agreed there are bad pit bulls out there. But you won’t agree there are bad owners that cause otherwise good dogs to go bad. What say you?
Your post is incoherent.
Let’s review here. I agreed there are bad pit bulls out there. But you won’t agree there are bad owners that cause otherwise good dogs to go bad. What say you?
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From what I have learned, it appears that the traits bred into pit bulls, which made them and related breeds the best at killing in pit fighting are attributes like “gameness” and attack without warning, and continuous lethal attack etc. The musculature of the dog is marked as well. The combination of behaviors and physical attributes make this dog breed capable of astonishing levels of damage and fatalities. “Treating it well” does not remove the instincts that were bred into it. Cross breeding can transmit this genetic information into the resulting offspring.
I had a pet bird that was walking on the floor of my apartment. A pit bull looked at it with gentle interested eyes. The bird momentarily flapped its wings. The demeanor of the dog changed to attack mode in an instant - it was like he turned to stone in a flash. Instinct asserted itself. I’ve seen the same “prey” instinct come over cats and other dog species. The special attention to breeding the “perfect pit fight killer” assert themselves in pits without people being able to know when it will happen or why.
A family seated on a couch with two pits at their feet. One pit was the mother of the other pit. One person rose to their feet. The pit lying 3 feet away suddenly attacked her. The mother pit stopped the attack of her pup and lay down in the doorway whimpering - aware that something horrible had happened and “sorry”. The pits had been raised in the same home by the same people - they were not abused. For reasons unknown (but attempts have been made to describe a cognitive bypass which skips trained behaviors and makes a freeway for instincts- ideal in pit fighting) the pup’s fight/kill instincts kicked in. Moments later the dog seemed confused at its own actions.
There is no way to tell which pit will resort to instinctive behavior and when it will happen. The story of the 14 month old baby I linked on the last thread in which you and I addressed each other is classic of this phenomena. The dogs were beloved and had licked the face of the baby in the past. There were no known provoking factors. The dogs were let out of the house to the dog run by the owner with the baby on her hip. They acted normal and pushed past her to run out to the dog pen. On the return to the house they attacked her. Who knows why. Was it pack resources? She put them in the back of the house and spent time with the child? We’ll never know.
Since no one knows when instinct will assert itself or why, many times I’ve seen pro pit supporters dissecting “well was the gate left open or pushed shut” etc. as if humans simply deserve mauling and killing if one can find a mistake in handling anywhere. I appreciate that pet owners love their dogs but this blame technique is really the only “answer” I’ve seen from pit supporters. Blame “bad owners”, blame mistakes. I’ve read pro pit people “explaining” that a crying child is distressing to the dogs but children cry so we can’t justify keeping pets which kill at this normal occurence.
Are there bad owners? Yes. There are. Bad owners are attracted to the death and maiming associated with dogs bred to fight in pits. The astonishing capacity of the pit bull is similar to that of the damage caused by wild animals and “bad owners” want one of THOSE in their house or back yard. So an unpredictable pit bull becomes even worse with abuse but it was unpredictable and capable of astonishing damage and death BEFORE it was mistreated. Pointers are bred to point and we do not consider it a results of abuse by their owners if they point. Pit bulls are bred to cause catastrophic damage and death and their reflexes have been enhanced by breeding in the traits that amount to kill-without-warning first and it doesn’t require abuse to trigger this behavior. There are no cost effective tests which reliably predict which pit will sit at your feet and serve you well and which pit will one day rip the arms of the owner or kill the household baby or pet.
The idea that bad owners turn good dogs bad is not sufficient - a bad (abused poodle) is not likely to cause the damage that documented bystanders describe as a “bomb going off” or a “terrorist attack” when multiple ambulances are summoned to the scene and cops prowl the neighborhood looking for two relatively moderate sized dogs covered in blood after they mauled people and then mauled those who attempted to help. yes, I’ve read such accounts. This is not domesticated behavior. Those who “ruined” pits were those who bred them to fight in pits and then put a bonnet on them and started calling them service dogs or pit ambassadors.
You stated I cared about public relations about pit bulls. And you are wrong. Your whole argument is against the breed without recognizing the bad human element in raising these high profile animals. I live through personal experience as well as working with scores of individuals that have solicited my assistance with owning a pit bull. On more than one occasion, I recognized a situation that was beyond help and recommended the dog be put down.
The breed is an inherent good one that some men ruin.
Many humans are more violent than pits. Should we be put down?
I’ve never seen a report of a human doing to another human what a pit bull does to humans. Unless you want to count those freakish people high on the drug known as “bath salts” who were caught eating the faces, eyes of people.
Dogs are not people. People are not dogs. We treat them differently. I advocate banning the breed or requiring people to have exotic pet permits for currently owned pits including exotic animal enclosures, training etc. When pit owners refuse to comply with permit requirements or their dog “escapes” - euthanize the dog and enact the breed bans.
I was 17 so I probably was irresponsible. But the adult owner insisted that I let him prove to me that these dogs are teddy bears.
If bird killings had stats like pit bull killings have, your “argument” would still not have merit.The problem is not “pit bulls are killing birds!”. The problem is “pit bulls are killing people!” As I said, I learned that the hunt instinct could be brought out in cats and other dogs by a bird’s rustling wings. There are cute videos of birds and dog friends who love them but let’s agree that the instincts of dogs and cats can be triggered by birds wings.
You’ve never proven any portion of your argument because you have no relevant stats or proof. The facts don’t back you up so your approach is standard: Just blame. Blame resolves nothing. The dogs keep killing people and the pit bull lobby keeps blaming victims and the death rate is now 1 person every 13 days.
You are really a sad sack case for the anti pit bull cause here on Free Republic. Please contact Chett99.
Before I log out, with my pits laying across my feet, you are like Obama that keeps blaming the other side and when you don’t like whats said in reply, blame some more. You are a liberal, aren’t you?
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