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Scientists Show How Antibiotics Enable Pathogenic Gut Infections
Science Daily ^ | 9-1-13

Posted on 09/01/2013 2:06:31 PM PDT by Dysart

A number of intestinal pathogens can cause problems after antibiotic administration, said Justin Sonnenburg, PhD, assistant professor of microbiology and immunology and the senior author of the study, to be published online Sept. 1 in Nature. Graduate students Katharine Ng and Jessica Ferreyra shared lead authorship.

"Antibiotics open the door for these pathogens to take hold. But how, exactly, that occurs hasn't been well understood," Sonnenburg said. In the first 24 hours after administration of oral antibiotics, a spike in carbohydrate availability takes place in the gut, the study says. This transient nutrient surplus, combined with the reduction of friendly gut-dwelling bacteria due to antibiotics, permits at least two potentially deadly pathogens to get a toehold in that otherwise more forbidding environment.

In the past decade or so, much has been learned about the complex microbial ecosystem that resides in every healthy mammal's large intestine, including ours. The thousands of distinct bacterial strains that normally inhabit this challenging but nutrient-rich niche have adapted to it so well that we have difficulty living without them. They manufacture vitamins, provide critical training to our immune systems and even guide the development of our own tissues. Antibiotics decimate this gut-microbe ecosystem, which begins bouncing back within a few days but may take a month or more to regain its former numbers. And the ecosystem appears to suffer the permanent loss of some of its constituent bacterial strains.

It is thought that our commensal, or friendly, bacteria serve as a kind of lawn that, in commandeering the rich fertilizer that courses through our gut, outcompetes the less-well-behaved pathogenic "weeds." It has also been suggested that our commensal bugs secrete pathogen-killing factors. Another theory holds that the disruption of our inner microbial ecosystem somehow impairs our immune responsiveness.

(Excerpt) Read more at sciencedaily.com ...


TOPICS: Gardening
KEYWORDS: acidophilus; antibiotic; cdiff; gut; pathogens; probiotics
C diff, be not proud. This grabbed my attention as I'm on day 11 of a 14 day course of Augmentin for a tooth abscess. I've been chugging Kefir in hopes of maintaining a healthy gut. Tooth feels fine now and I'm tempted to give the AB a rest...
1 posted on 09/01/2013 2:06:31 PM PDT by Dysart
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To: Dysart

Do NOT stop your antibiotic. Better to take more probiotics for a couple of weeks, like Activia yogurt or acidophilus capsules from the healthfood store.


2 posted on 09/01/2013 2:13:09 PM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Remember... the first revolutionary was Satan."--Russian Orthodox Archpriest Dmitry Smirnov)
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To: Albion Wilde

Yeah, you’re probably right. I should ensure those pesky bacteria have been pummeled into oblivion for another 6 months at any rate.


3 posted on 09/01/2013 2:19:34 PM PDT by Dysart (Control your destiny or someone else will. -- Jack Welch)
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To: Dysart

Look into taking the ‘pearls’ probiotics. They actually survive stomach acid mostly intact. They’re a bit more expensive but actually, in my experience, work. The ones with the most critters are probably the best IMHO.

Also, if you’re on antibiotics for a long period of time look into some ‘florastor’. It’s a particular critter that’s been shown to knock C diff back somewhat. And it doesn’t colonize your gi tract. Once you stop taking it it’s pretty much gone within a week or ten days. Returning your gi tract to its rightful owners.


4 posted on 09/01/2013 2:21:52 PM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: Black Agnes

Thanks. I see Walmart stocks Pearls.


5 posted on 09/01/2013 2:27:09 PM PDT by Dysart (Control your destiny or someone else will. -- Jack Welch)
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To: Dysart

These are the pearls our internist had me take:

http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/enzymatic-therapy-pearls-ic-intensive-care-probiotics%2c-capsules/ID=prod6152273-product

I get my Florastor at walgreens or krogers.

http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/florastor-probiotic-250-mg-dietary-supplement-capsules/ID=prod6008019-product

My mom’s doc had her taking that after a long bout of cipro. One of her little old lady friends actually had a bad c diff infection and had to have that ‘cure’ that we won’t talk about just here right now. (gak)

http://www.walgreens.com/search/results.jsp?Ntt=culturelle

is another good one. We take that one too. Kids included after they’ve had antibiotics.

Hubby drinks ‘Good Belly’ if he’s on antibiotics too. IIRC it has the same critter as culturelle.

YMMV.

We keep taking the probiotics after we’ve stopped the antibiotics. Just to be sure. Mom’s friend’s experience has us running skeeered with that. LOL.


6 posted on 09/01/2013 2:34:56 PM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: Albion Wilde

Yes, this doesn’t necessarily mean stopping an antibiotic.

It means fortifying the gut with probiotics.

Originally, when penicillin was first used, they prescribed probiotics along with the antibiotic, because they knew even in the 40s that antibiotics destroyed good bacteria in the gut. So they took probioics to help replenish the good bacteria that were being destroyed along with the bad bacteria.

Now it did come into standard medical practice that they no longer prescribed probiotics along with antibiotics, and thus led into people having problems with gut issues and infection issues because they never ‘reset’ their internals with a proper balance of good bacteria. There is not a lot of money to be made prescribing yogurt or probiotics because they aren’t drugs.


7 posted on 09/01/2013 2:35:00 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Black Agnes

it’s good to take them after, as most diets are not sufficient to replenish probiotics, and if they are high sugar and carb diets, they are more likely to promote bad bacteria in the gut, rather than good bacteria that keep the bad bacteria at low and managed levels.


8 posted on 09/01/2013 2:37:18 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Black Agnes
My mom’s doc had her taking that after a long bout of cipro. One of her little old lady friends actually had a bad c diff infection and had to have that ‘cure’ that we won’t talk about just here right now.

Yeah, let us not get into that treatment. Sometimes I think I read entirely too much.

9 posted on 09/01/2013 2:40:29 PM PDT by Dysart (Control your destiny or someone else will. -- Jack Welch)
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To: Black Agnes

Florastor has Saccharomyces boulardii lyo in it. Anything with Saccharomyces boulardii lyo is a great benefit for those afflicted with C Dif.


10 posted on 09/01/2013 2:43:20 PM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Dysart

Thanks, guys. I have to take antibiotics quite frequently, and have had some really bad episodes afterwards. Will be buying some pearls!


11 posted on 09/01/2013 2:45:49 PM PDT by KYGrandma (The sun shines bright on my old Kentucky home.....)
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To: Dysart
Kefir is really good stuff.

The test: take a whiff of your glass after it as been sitting in the dishwasher for a couple of hours. :)

12 posted on 09/01/2013 2:46:06 PM PDT by dhs12345
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To: Secret Agent Man
Interesting. I didn't realize this. Only very recently have my doctors recommended probiotics while taking antibiotics. I have been around a few years, too. :)
13 posted on 09/01/2013 2:48:54 PM PDT by dhs12345
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To: Secret Agent Man

We usually rotate through some probiotic or other all the time, depending on finances.

We’re both stressed out, don’t sleep enough and probably don’t really eat all that great either.

I give the kids the kids culturelle too, every 2 or 3 months, more often if they’ve been on antibiotics. One of them had had to take miralax every once in a while, hasn’t had to do that since we’ve started taking the probiotics periodically.


14 posted on 09/01/2013 2:50:29 PM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: dhs12345

Yes, Kefir is strangely appealing especially since under scrutiny it’s almost noxious. Quite the riddle. Anyway, I like to mix Strawberry and Blueberry flavored Kefir resulting in a most festive elixir.


15 posted on 09/01/2013 2:53:32 PM PDT by Dysart (Control your destiny or someone else will. -- Jack Welch)
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To: Dysart
Also, it makes sense to consume already “alive cultures” versus probiotics that have to be grown in the gut to a population that has to be effective.

Kefir works really well for an upset stomach, too. Odd that it is milky in nature and probably not desirable. But it works very well.

16 posted on 09/01/2013 3:00:53 PM PDT by dhs12345
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To: Dysart

I am in the 5th day of taking Augumentan for an unvaccinated dog bite (attack)while delivering pizzas. Went to Dr. who felt that since she had puppies that the attack was not related to rabies. Am still very skittish around dogs. I carry a mini baseball bat to deter them but I never suspected this middle sized dog. She got me from behind. I never saw it coming.

Am taking my probiotic in the middle of the day and look forward to this all being over.


17 posted on 09/01/2013 3:02:20 PM PDT by Battle Axe (Repent, for the coming of the Lord is nigh.)
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To: Battle Axe
I am in the 5th day of taking Augumentan for an unvaccinated dog bite (attack)while delivering pizzas.

That's horrible. Dogs shouldn't be delivering pizzas. I bet their tips are good, though, what with the novelty factor and all.

I kid. But seriously, how about the size of that pill-- big enough to choke a horse, eh?

18 posted on 09/01/2013 3:08:52 PM PDT by Dysart (Control your destiny or someone else will. -- Jack Welch)
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To: Dysart

Kefir is great, but what really counts is what reaches your intestines intact —stomach pH is about 1.4, so after swimming around in there for 30 min how much really survives..?

Enteric coated probiotics boost the figure considerably, of course.

Then what you COULD do, of course, is to take a completely different, errr...DIRECTION by taking completely ordinary probiotic capsules, AND THEN....

????

Get it...?


19 posted on 09/01/2013 3:54:36 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: gaijin

Make a super preBiotic tea from chicory root (herbco.com you can get it super cheap, wholesale with very little packaging and marketing). Then drink that along with your probiotic.

Your results will be hugely improved.


20 posted on 09/01/2013 4:06:49 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: Dysart

Hi Dy,

I believe the ultimate probiotic is VSL #3 it is described:

VSL#3 high-potency probiotic medical food contains 8 different strains of live lactic acid bacteria that were specially selected to produce an optimal synergistic composition of bacteria. The 8 strains are:
Bifidobacterium breve
Bifidobacterium longum
Bifidobacterium infantis
Lactobacillus acidophilus
Lactobacillus plantarum
Lactobacillus paracasei
Lactobacillus bulgaricus
Streptococcus thermophilus

VSL#3 is a potent probiotic medical food that delivers the highest available concentration of beneficial live bacteria of any probiotic in the world

There are four formulations of VSL#3:

1. Capsules that contain 112.5 billion live bacteria
2. NEW - VSL#3 JUNIOR packets that contain 225 billion live bacteria
3. Packets that contain 450 billion live bacteria
4. Double Strength (DS) packets that contain 900 billion live bacteria. Due to the potency of this formulation, VSL#3 DS is a prescription only
medical food.

All except the last can be purchased without a prescription.
I have used it for several years and nothing has come close.
And I can pick it up from our local Walgreens.
PS NOT CHEAP, but good.

Regards,
Lurking’


21 posted on 09/01/2013 4:16:44 PM PDT by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: Albion Wilde

Do not start any antibiotic.

They only weaken your immune system, making recovery less likely. They are at best only minimally effective at killing the infecting organism, but very effective at crippling your digestion and immune system.


22 posted on 09/01/2013 4:28:46 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Dysart

>> “ Tooth feels fine now and I’m tempted to give the AB a rest.” <<

.
Shaky!

Once the antibiotic is started, stopping early stands some chance of resulting in an AB resistant infection that can be spread to others.

Too late for the best choice: not taking any AB ever.


23 posted on 09/01/2013 4:31:55 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: LurkingSince'98

Cool. Sounds like a nuclear option to restore proper gut critters. Billions upon billions!


24 posted on 09/01/2013 4:33:13 PM PDT by Dysart (Control your destiny or someone else will. -- Jack Welch)
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To: dhs12345

>> “ Odd that it is milky in nature and probably not desirable” <<

.
Why would milk not be desirable?

The only milk that is not desirable is that which has had fat removed.


25 posted on 09/01/2013 4:39:52 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: LurkingSince'98
Most of these are available in Yogurt. I think that Mountain High yogurt has most of these, and you can purchase 1/2 gallon containers at Whole Foods for about $4.50.

GT Dave's Kombucha Tea has S. Boulardi. Shake gently and drink.

If I understand correctly, most probiotics don't survive the stomach, and Keifer does. Lifeway Keifer is available inexpensively at Aldi, at least at my local store. Vinegar has acetobacter. Not certain if this falls in the probiotic category. Sauerkraut is supposed to have good bacteria as well.

26 posted on 09/01/2013 4:46:52 PM PDT by Pete from Shawnee Mission
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To: editor-surveyor
Milk is the last thing I’d want to drink. Maybe because it tastes especially bad on the way back up and after sitting in the stomach for a couple of hours and subject to stomach acids.

I am reminded of when my son threw up after we fed him milk.

27 posted on 09/01/2013 5:00:28 PM PDT by dhs12345
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To: Dysart

Augmentin caused me 10 months of gastro issues. I will NEVER take that garbage again. Activia doesn’t begin to touch what this stuff does to you.


28 posted on 09/01/2013 5:06:08 PM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
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To: dhs12345

i think some thought it was worthless because they assumed all the probiotics you were taking were just going to die. that isn’t the case that or maybe they figured people on them for a real short time didn’t experience enough negative results without probiotics it became practice to not give proobiotics altogether.


29 posted on 09/01/2013 5:11:13 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: dhs12345

Bizzare!

You are not normal.


30 posted on 09/01/2013 5:45:23 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Secret Agent Man
Good point. The probiotics have to reach the gut. And the large intestine? Small intestine? Probiotics are best in the large intestine, correct?

Thats, the stomach, then 20 feet of small intestine. A long way to travel.

How does it reach the large intestine in the first place? After all, we are probably not born with it.

Are probiotics carried along with food? Having it grow in the small intestine might not be good.

31 posted on 09/01/2013 5:54:38 PM PDT by dhs12345
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To: editor-surveyor

Lol. My wife would agree.


32 posted on 09/01/2013 5:56:46 PM PDT by dhs12345
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To: Dysart

I had some serious dental surgery a few years ago,,,too massive doses of antibiotics..and since developed the leaky gut syndrome..a Candida overgrowth....and Chronic Fatigue.

Very high potency Probiotics are a part of my daily regime at the point.


33 posted on 09/01/2013 6:06:09 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey (Block Captain..Tyranny Response Team / al-Kilab Division)
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To: Dysart

I use UltraFlora™ Acute Care

A 3:1 blend of: 4 billion live organisms
Bifidobacterium lactis HN019
Lactobacillus rhamnosus<
Saccharomyces boulardii

providing 5.5 billion live organisms


34 posted on 09/01/2013 6:06:10 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey (Block Captain..Tyranny Response Team / al-Kilab Division)
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To: dhs12345

“”Having it grow in the small intestine might not be good.”

the bad bacterium are unusually hardy , thus the need for massive doses of the Probiotics..and I’ve not heard of probiotics every being problematic.

you can bet the FDA would have laid done the law... if there were ever any reported problems encountered using probiotics


35 posted on 09/01/2013 6:06:10 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey (Block Captain..Tyranny Response Team / al-Kilab Division)
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To: dhs12345

“”Having it grow in the small intestine might not be good.”

the bad bacterium are unusually hardy , thus the need for massive doses of the Probiotics..and I’ve not heard of probiotics every being problematic.

you can bet the FDA would have laid done the law... if there were ever any reported problems encountered using probiotics


36 posted on 09/01/2013 6:06:16 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey (Block Captain..Tyranny Response Team / al-Kilab Division)
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To: Dysart
how about the size of that pill-- big enough to choke a horse, eh?

or bop a charging dog with

37 posted on 09/01/2013 7:19:44 PM PDT by Doogle (USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: Pete from Shawnee Mission

450 billion

You need to do the math.

How many gallons of kefir would that be???


38 posted on 09/01/2013 10:15:02 PM PDT by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: LurkingSince'98

I’m surprised no one has mentioned fecal transplant therapy:

http://qctimes.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/mayo-clinic-expert-outlines-effective-fecal-transplant-procedure/article_77e696ea-65e3-5c69-b625-c54b9d18cfe4.html


39 posted on 09/02/2013 2:12:49 AM PDT by JohnnyP
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To: Dysart
I should ensure those pesky bacteria have been pummeled into oblivion for another 6 months at any rate.

The length of a course of antibiotic must be studied and tested for years before FDA approval. If you stop a course of antibiotic too soon, you take the chance that the infection will come back worse than before. If the antibiotic is working for you, it is normal to experience symptom relief before the end of the prescribed course; but you should take every dose prescribed. Patient "noncompliance" is one of the leading causes of cost and waste in medical care.

40 posted on 09/02/2013 7:44:31 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Remember... the first revolutionary was Satan."--Russian Orthodox Archpriest Dmitry Smirnov)
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To: Secret Agent Man
Yes, this doesn’t necessarily mean stopping an antibiotic. It means fortifying the gut with probiotics.

That's what I said.

41 posted on 09/02/2013 7:46:13 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Remember... the first revolutionary was Satan."--Russian Orthodox Archpriest Dmitry Smirnov)
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To: editor-surveyor
Do not start any antibiotic. They only weaken your immune system, making recovery less likely.

I think it depends on the situation. I try not to take medicines at all, even aspirin; but sometimes the benefits really do outweigh the risks.

42 posted on 09/02/2013 7:51:12 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Remember... the first revolutionary was Satan."--Russian Orthodox Archpriest Dmitry Smirnov)
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To: LurkingSince'98

I have no problem with using probiotic supplements, especially if you have been “de-floriated” by cipro. (I have...twice. Highly unpleasant.)

Based on the review below I would certainly consider using it If I ever get cipro’d again or suffered from Leaky bowel or Crohns disease. (I was actually glad to learn about this product.) I am not now sick, but I do drink Keifer.

http://livesimplylivethriftylivesavvy.com/2012/01/25/product-review-vsl3-probiotics-provide-positive-results-for-digestive-systems-in-distress/

Alright. I will take your “You do the math.” comment as a friendly suggestion to seriously compare the food versus the supplement.

I am using Lifeway’s product as a basis for comparison. From Lifeway Keifir’s website.

“What kinds of bacteria (probiotics) are in Lifeway kefir?
All Lifeway products contain seven to ten billion CFU’s of the following 12 live & active Kefir cultures per cup:
• Lactobacillius Lactis
• Lactobacillus Rhamnosus
• Streptococcus Diacetylactis
• Lactobacillus Plantarum
• Lactobacillius Casei
• Saccharomyces Florentinus
• Leuconostoc Cremoris
• Bifidobacterium Longum
• Bifidobacterium Breve
• Lactobacillus Acidophilus
• Bifidobacterium lactis
• Lactobacillus reuteri

“Lifeway Kefir contains seven to ten billion CFU’s per serving, with four servings per quart, depending on certain factors such as the number of days from the expiration date.”

Most of the ads I saw for VSL#3 gave a cost between $60 and $85 for a 30 pack, or $2 per day if you use 1 pack.

450 billion per packet / 40 billion per qt = 11.25 qts or about 2 gallons of keifer per day equivalent. Pharmaceutical VSL#3 definitely beats the Food product Kefier!

On the other hand, it is also fair to note that VSL#3 provides absolutely no additional nourishment or food value and is not enjoyable to drink. If you are sick, you want to enjoy whatever small pleasure you have left! To drink 1 quart per day of Keifer is not hard to do. (Two gallons, no...)

There is also the additional cost of the Doctor visits to obtain the prescription and the associated dreariness of sitting in the waiting room with other sick people. (As you indicate, VSL#3 Jr. would be available without a prescription, but with reduced probiotic content.) If you are not sick I would say just drink keifer.

Instructions on one site for Crohn’s Disease.

“Suggested Use of VSL#3: 1-4 packets daily
Open Packet of VSL3 and stir contents into yogurt, apple sauce or any other cold food or non-carbonated drink.”

(Keifer would probably be a reasonable delivery liquid. it contains nutrients that feed the probiotics.)

If you cannot find a pharmacy that sells it and purchase online; “VSL#3 is only shipped on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday unless Overnight or Second Day Air is selected
NO Thursday OR Friday shipping. THIS PRODUCT MAY NOT BE RETURNED.”

(I can buy keifer any day of the week its in stock at Aldi. If bad,I can return my Keifer to Aldi and get a refund! I do not have to pay a shipping charge!)

Storage: VSL#3 may be stored at room temperature (77° F) for up to two weeks without adversely affecting potency. All types of VSL#3 should be refrigerated (36-46° F or 2-8° C).

(Keifer is cultured at room temperature and stores about 2 weeks in the refrigerator.)

Shelf Life: 2 years from manufacturing date when stored properly (36-46° F or 2-8° C)

(VSR#3 wins again! I would not touch 2 year old Keifer even if stored at the correct temperature!)

My analysis; if a person has lost their intestinal flora due to illness or antibiotics, if you are lactose intolerant, definitely use VSR#3. If not, drink keifer and kombucha, and eat sauerkraut, yogurt, high fiber foods, and keep your gut flora healthy.


43 posted on 09/02/2013 8:02:23 AM PDT by Pete from Shawnee Mission ("Let your food be medicine and your medicine be food." Hippocrates)
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To: Albion Wilde

i was agreeing with you.


44 posted on 09/02/2013 12:39:37 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Black Agnes; Dysart
Prevention: Probiotics cut C. difficile risk
45 posted on 09/03/2013 7:13:22 PM PDT by neverdem (Register pressure cookers! /s)
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To: Albion Wilde

How long will lactobacillus acidophilus remain viable if kept in the fridge?


46 posted on 09/03/2013 7:27:13 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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