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Vanity. Military rank question

Posted on 09/17/2013 6:55:55 AM PDT by KingLudd

Apologies for posting here. This may be my very first post.

5 years ago, I promised a young Marine that I would purchase his officer's sabre if he made it. I just received word that he will be promoted to Corporal in Oct. Is it time for me to make good on my promise? When do officers generally carry a sabre? Any historical advice or purchase advice in terms of price, source, style is greatly appreciated. This Marine is an exceptionally good person. Thank you


TOPICS: Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 09/17/2013 6:55:55 AM PDT by KingLudd
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To: KingLudd

Corporal is an Enlisted Rank, not Officer ...


2 posted on 09/17/2013 6:57:16 AM PDT by 11th_VA (I want a president who won't enforce tax laws ...)
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To: KingLudd

Corporal (E-4) - 12 months TIS and 8 months TIG


3 posted on 09/17/2013 6:58:00 AM PDT by seeker41 (take your country back by whatever means necessary)
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To: KingLudd

A corporal is not an officer, so you can spend your money on something else.


4 posted on 09/17/2013 6:58:33 AM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (Muzzie killing muzzie what's the downside and who am I to stop them ?)
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To: KingLudd

You would be looking at an NCO sword not an officer sabre.

http://www.militarysabers.com/marine-nco-sword-certified.html


5 posted on 09/17/2013 6:58:53 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: KingLudd

Corporal or captain? Because if he’s a corporal then he’ll look out of place with a saber.


6 posted on 09/17/2013 6:58:59 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: KingLudd

http://www.militarysabers.com/army-saber-manual-of-arms


7 posted on 09/17/2013 6:59:35 AM PDT by Doogle (USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: KingLudd

I don’t know much about Marines but the universal acceptance is that only Commissioned Officers, Lieutenant and above, carry swords. Corporals are Non-Coms.


8 posted on 09/17/2013 7:00:21 AM PDT by ReconViper 1
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To: KingLudd
A little info
9 posted on 09/17/2013 7:01:56 AM PDT by Baynative (Lord, keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.)
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To: ReconViper 1

Officer carry a Mameluke: http://www.marines.com/history-heritage/timeline?articleId=TIMELINE_INNOVATIONS_1805_THE_BATTLE_OF_DERNA#1800


10 posted on 09/17/2013 7:03:06 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: KingLudd
I know in the Navy it's O-3 (Lt) and above carry swords ,
Chiefs (E-7,8,9) can carry a ceremonial cutlass.
11 posted on 09/17/2013 7:04:00 AM PDT by RedStateGuyTrappedinCT
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To: DoodleDawg
Because if he’s a corporal then he’ll look out of place with a saber.

Not only that, but he will be out of uniform.

12 posted on 09/17/2013 7:05:53 AM PDT by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: ReconViper 1

E-4 and above can carry..typically ceremonial..weddings and retirements, honor guard. USN Ret. 0-3E, ‘75-2001...been there, done that..got the shirt...LOl...and sword.


13 posted on 09/17/2013 7:06:50 AM PDT by strange1 ("Show the enemy harm so he shall not advance" Sun Tzu The Art of War)
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To: KingLudd
In case you're just lookin' for an excuse to be a nice guy, betcha he'd appreciate one of these, regardless of rank :


             

14 posted on 09/17/2013 7:09:04 AM PDT by tomkat
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To: 11th_VA
Corporal is an Enlisted Rank, not Officer ...

This kind of ignorance manifests itself when so few American men serve in the military.

15 posted on 09/17/2013 7:09:06 AM PDT by OldPossum
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To: KingLudd

Buy him a swagger stick, but make certain he uses it off base.


16 posted on 09/17/2013 7:09:22 AM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: ReconViper 1
I don’t know much about Marines but the universal acceptance is that only Commissioned Officers, Lieutenant and above, carry swords. Corporals are Non-Coms.

I don't know much about the Army, but, as a symbol of leadership in combat, the Marines allow both NCO's (Non-Coms) and Officers to carry the ceremonial sword.

17 posted on 09/17/2013 7:09:52 AM PDT by sonofagun (Some think my cynicism grows with age. I like to think of it as wisdom!)
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(here)
18 posted on 09/17/2013 7:11:04 AM PDT by tomkat
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To: KingLudd

USMC “Corporal’ is an NCO Rank not an “Officer”.


19 posted on 09/17/2013 7:11:59 AM PDT by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: RedStateGuyTrappedinCT
I know in the Navy it's O-3 (Lt) and above carry swords

There has to be a joke in there, i.e. not letting an ensign carry a sword.

Something along the lines of:

What's the most dangerous weapon in the US Army's arsenal?

Ans: A 2nd Lieutenant and a map.

From experience, that's not far from the truth. I was lucky: I received dozens of hours of training in map reading and orienteering. Plus, during my first year in Germany, I spent a lot of time on weekends driving through the local area.

Came in handy during alerts and tac evals. I knew all of the local bakereis, and introduced the owners to several evaluators. lol

20 posted on 09/17/2013 7:14:13 AM PDT by Night Hides Not (The Tea Party was the earthquake, and Chick Fil A the tsunami...100's of aftershocks to come.)
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To: tomkat
Or this:


21 posted on 09/17/2013 7:20:52 AM PDT by cll (Serviam!)
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To: IbJensen
Buy him a swagger stick, but make certain he uses it off base.


22 posted on 09/17/2013 7:21:36 AM PDT by JRios1968 (I'm guttery and trashy, with a hint of lemon. - Laz)
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To: tomkat
That was going to be my suggestion, for a Corporal buy him a Kukri, or a fighting Tomahawk.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

23 posted on 09/17/2013 7:22:24 AM PDT by ansel12 ( 'I'm on That New Obama Diet... Every Day I Let Vladimir Putin Eat My Lunch' .)
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To: KingLudd
This Marine is an exceptionally good person.

Maybe. But why has he continued to allow you to believe you owe him an officer's sword all these years? He's not an officer (he didn't "make it" as an officer) and those things aren't cheap.

24 posted on 09/17/2013 7:26:46 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: Night Hides Not

“What’s the most dangerous weapon in the US Army’s arsenal?
Ans: A 2nd Lieutenant and a map.”

The above is incorrect. A 2nd Lieutenant and a map is the second most dangerous weapon. The most dangerous weapon is a 2nd Lieutenant with a map and a compass!

I know. I once was one of those dangerous weapons.


25 posted on 09/17/2013 7:31:44 AM PDT by rgboomers (This space purposely left blank)
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To: rgboomers

Are butterbars less dangerous today, thanks to GPS? I think not.


26 posted on 09/17/2013 7:34:33 AM PDT by Night Hides Not (The Tea Party was the earthquake, and Chick Fil A the tsunami...100's of aftershocks to come.)
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To: LibWhacker

“But why has he continued to allow you to believe you owe him an officer’s sword all these years? He’s not an officer (he didn’t “make it” as an officer) and those things aren’t cheap.”

All I know is that he has been promoted. I asked a simple question hoping to understand the situation.


27 posted on 09/17/2013 7:42:36 AM PDT by KingLudd
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To: KingLudd

It depends upon how you look at it. A cpl is an NCO; which stands for non-commissioned officer. It is taken very seriously in the Marine Corps. As my first sergeant used to tell the new corporals that they were “officers, currently in a non-commissioned status.” NCOs are authorized to purchase Marine Corps NCO swords; which are different than officer swords. Your call on which way you want to handle it.


28 posted on 09/17/2013 7:46:26 AM PDT by fini
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To: KingLudd

In the Marine Corps, a corporal is an NCO, and would be authorized to possess an NCO’s sword.

This is a different sword than the mameluke, the Officer’s sword.

All Officers of Marines must have a mameluke (it is part of their uniform requirement). An NCO sword is used by NCO’s in certain ceremonial situations, but I don’t think there is a sword requirement unless they are in certain positions.


29 posted on 09/17/2013 7:48:08 AM PDT by paterfamilias
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To: KingLudd
All I know is that he has been promoted. I asked a simple question hoping to understand the situation.

You get promoted to Corporal by showing up to work on time and being able to spell your name correctly"

30 posted on 09/17/2013 8:02:51 AM PDT by DYngbld (I have read the back of the Book and we WIN!!!! (this post approved by the NSA))
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To: RedStateGuyTrappedinCT
Ceremonial Cutlass? Seems too big.


31 posted on 09/17/2013 8:10:27 AM PDT by Lx (Do you like it? Do you like it, Scott? I call it, "Mr. & Mrs. Tenorman Chili.")
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To: RedStateGuyTrappedinCT

Slight correction - Midshipmen and officers O-1 and above are authorized to carry swords.

You are correct in that NCOs may carry a cutlass, and it’s been a while, but I believe that Warrant Officers may carry a dirk.

Note that it was also allowed for an officer to carry a cutlass if he choose, but I don’t know if that is still allowed. Don’t have my bluejackets manual around at the moment.


32 posted on 09/17/2013 8:18:10 AM PDT by reed13k (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: KingLudd

If I knew how to post pictures, I would take one of my husband’s officer’s sword. He had to get one when he graduated from USNA. We used his to cut our wedding cake, and we had the arch of swords to exit the church. Makes a really nice wall hanging, too. He didn’t have one as an enlisted.


33 posted on 09/17/2013 8:23:49 AM PDT by KYGrandma (The sun shines bright on my old Kentucky home.....)
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To: KingLudd

http://www.totalnavy.com/marine_corps_swords.htm?gclid=CJrz8-vf0rkCFcU7Mgod1TAAvw


34 posted on 09/17/2013 8:30:49 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: The Sons of Liberty

Corporal is a one of the three types of officers in the US military. There are Commissioned Officers, Warrant Officers and Non-Commissioned Officers. A Corporal is a Non-Commissioned Officer (NCO) rank. Per regulation, NCOs are authorized a sword that can be worn under certain conditions.


35 posted on 09/17/2013 8:34:53 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: KingLudd
http://www.marineshop.net/browse.cfm/nco-saber/4,7207.html

NCO Saber

36 posted on 09/17/2013 8:41:21 AM PDT by Excellence (All your database are belong to us.)
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To: KingLudd
You can buy him his NCO sword. Here's a link, but you'll need a measurement.

NCO Sword

He isn't a commissioned officer and as a result he is never referred to as an officer. If you want that in there you call him a non-commissioned officer or 'en-cee-oh'. In reality if he is a good Marine he wants to hear Corporal as it is a big deal in the Corps expecially in combat arms. As an aside, you're quite the dude to sack up for the sword, it is pricey.

37 posted on 09/17/2013 8:48:07 AM PDT by xone
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To: KingLudd
It probably just slipped his mind; never imagined that you would think he was an officer.

Here is a link showing "enlisted" insignia which will help you understand how enlisted ranks are ordered, who is lowest on the totem pole, who is second, etc.

Here is a link showing the "officer" insignias, which will help you understand how the officer ranks are ordered.

It is veeeery difficult, almost unheard of, to get promoted from the enlisted ranks to the officer ranks. There are some old enlisted guys who got battlefield commissions (i.e., a battlefield promotion to the lowest officer rank from an enlisted rank) during WWII, and I think one or two did it in Korea. I don't know if it's been done since then. Otherwise, you have to go to West Point, Annapolis, etc., to become an officer, or go to what is called Officer Candidate School (Army).

38 posted on 09/17/2013 8:49:08 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker
It is veeeery difficult, almost unheard of, to get promoted from the enlisted ranks to the officer ranks.

NCO to officer is not all that unusual. My senior DI at PI, a staff sergeant E-6, retired as a Marine captain O-3 after 20 years.

39 posted on 09/17/2013 8:58:21 AM PDT by BluH2o
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To: BluH2o

Oh! When I was in a looooong time ago (army), it was very rare. Which is why I should be more careful when talking about the situation today, or talking about the different branches of the service!


40 posted on 09/17/2013 9:04:15 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: BluH2o

A quick search shows there were at least some during Vietnam.

Marines:

“”From 1963-1973 the Marine Corps Commandant appointed a permanent
Board with the mission of selecting those enlisted men of the Marine
Corps whose performance under fire while serving in Vietnam merited a
commission. A list of 62 enlisted men who were commissioned includes
one man who was killed before he could accept his commission.””

Army:

“”The Department of Defense, in an official communication, has stated
that there were no battlefield commissions awarded by the Army during
the Vietnam conflict. In September, 1985, a letter was written to
General William Westmoreland who commanded all troops in Vietnam
requesting the General’s comments on the subject. General Westmoreland
replied: “We did commission several NCO’s on the battlefield in
Vietnam.””


41 posted on 09/17/2013 9:35:25 AM PDT by ansel12 ( 'I'm on That New Obama Diet... Every Day I Let Vladimir Putin Eat My Lunch' .)
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To: cll

Another excellent suggestion, and just damned handy for havin’ around !


42 posted on 09/17/2013 10:20:25 AM PDT by tomkat
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To: OldPossum

I learned about it on NCIS. :)


43 posted on 09/17/2013 11:31:22 AM PDT by huldah1776
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To: Night Hides Not

Well, I have a friend who just retired as a senior NCO with over 20 years. He would very much agree that butter-bars are as dangerous as ever.


44 posted on 09/17/2013 5:25:38 PM PDT by rgboomers (This space purposely left blank)
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