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Atheists Skeptical of Atwill’s Claim of a ‘Fabricated Jesus’
Las Vegas Guardian Express ^ | October 10, 2013 | Rebecca Savastio

Posted on 10/11/2013 9:31:20 PM PDT by Olog-hai

Self-proclaimed Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill has written a book in which he claims that Jesus was fabricated by a little-known group called the Flavians.

He also claims he has some sort of “smoking gun” type of “confession” from these ancient people that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that they entered into a conspiracy with the Roman government of the time to fabricate a character called Jesus as a “gentle Messiah” figure to wage psychological warfare on, and control, the masses so they would pay Caesar taxes without complaining. He is apparently going to present this evidence at a symposium later this month to which he is selling tickets.

Atheists don’t believe in God, and therefore, don’t believe in Jesus, so Atwill’s claim must be immediately adopted and enthusiastically promoted by Atheists, right? …Wrong. Atheists are a notoriously skeptical lot, and when reviewing this claim by Atwill of a fabricated Jesus, their famous skepticism is not only alive, but thriving. …

(Excerpt) Read more at guardianlv.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Conspiracy; History; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: atheism; christianity; fabrication; faithandphilosophy; godsgravesglyphs; josephatwill; letshavejerusalem; nuttery; pisotheory; romanempire
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1 posted on 10/11/2013 9:31:20 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Charles Henrickson

Ping.


2 posted on 10/11/2013 9:37:44 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: Olog-hai

Atwill is driving with blinders on and earplugs in.


3 posted on 10/11/2013 9:38:39 PM PDT by CMB_polarization
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To: Olog-hai

I call B.S.


4 posted on 10/11/2013 9:40:24 PM PDT by Lawdoc (My dad married my aunt, so now my cousins are my brothers. Go figure.)
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To: CMB_polarization

I dare him to say the same thing about Mohammed


5 posted on 10/11/2013 9:40:32 PM PDT by zencycler
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To: Army Air Corps
Joseph Atwill's, Caesar’s Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus, Ulysses Press, 2005, Reviewed by Robert M. Price


6 posted on 10/11/2013 9:42:54 PM PDT by CMB_polarization
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To: Olog-hai

Hollyweird can’t wait to make it into a blockbuster movie.....


7 posted on 10/11/2013 9:47:10 PM PDT by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
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To: Olog-hai

Well, I beware of Greeks even when they bear gifts.

The atheists get, and got, where they do by assuming a no-supernatural view of reality. Any sort of spiritual sense is slammed as confirmation bias. Even a false conspiracy theory is a step closer to truth than atheism is.


8 posted on 10/11/2013 9:47:30 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: zencycler

You won’t go far in academia saying things against Islam. Anti-Christian and Anti-Semitism is where it’s at with the university crowd.


9 posted on 10/11/2013 9:47:53 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: Olog-hai

Who wouldn’t be skeptical of someone who throws crap against a wall to see if it stinks?


10 posted on 10/11/2013 9:48:51 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: zencycler

Was St. Paul invented, an agent of the conspiracy, or simply a deluded Jew? How about the other Apostles and biblical notables?


11 posted on 10/11/2013 9:50:52 PM PDT by CMB_polarization
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To: Olog-hai
a little-known group called the Flavians

Little known?

Oh yeah, Vespasian, Titus and Domitian are total unknowns I mean they were just Emperors.

Good grief.

12 posted on 10/11/2013 9:52:04 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: CMB_polarization

So Romans invented unjustice of men against the talent of Jesus to justify taking taxes by Ceasar Atwill is an idiot. Jesus did the exact opposit. render unto Ceasar and see his fruits fail and then his realm shall fall apart and will have to repent to God.


13 posted on 10/11/2013 9:53:07 PM PDT by lavaroise
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To: GeronL

I wish Atwill rotsa ruck explaining how Caesar could come up with a cockamamie plan like this. Folks like that are trying to explain away genuine, unmistakable supernatural events... the widest displayed miracle is not even Jesus’s earthly death and resurrection, as important as their historical acceptability are — it’s the impact that these events had in the lives of billions! It’s like the global catastrophic warmists and the evolution-only biologists. No God, no God, no God. Fools!


14 posted on 10/11/2013 9:54:04 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: GeronL

Atwill and others have been pushing Roman conspiratorial theories for years. I think it’s not about what can be proven, but what entertains and promotes non-believe and skepticism.


15 posted on 10/11/2013 9:54:17 PM PDT by CMB_polarization
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To: HiTech RedNeck

SO, in the theory how does Rome benefit by labeling themselves God-killers?


16 posted on 10/11/2013 9:57:57 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: CMB_polarization

I totally believe it, does Dan Brown fund these people?


17 posted on 10/11/2013 9:58:52 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: GeronL

That sure pokes a hole in the motive.

Frankly in the Jesus saga, we all come out looking like chumps, while He is the hero!

Who’d carry around a story like that, not being convinced already that it was real???


18 posted on 10/11/2013 9:59:36 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Olog-hai

A) Be skeptical when anyone comes out as a ‘self proclaimed’ anything. Ask yourself if you would have your heart operated on by a ‘self proclaimed’ surgeon.

B) I find it hard to believe someone who has a degree in computers but finds the historicity of Christianity ‘interesting’ has uncovered documents overlooked by millions of scholars over the ages.

C) So, the Romans invented a messiah to draw people into a new, more placid faux religion... and no doubt drew even more people as they brutally slaughtered Christians and fed them to lions, and they no doubt would encourage an atmosphere of benevolence toward themselves by stating that they had killed the messiah! Wow, these Romans were masters of the psyop. This plan was airtight.


19 posted on 10/11/2013 10:05:13 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: GeronL
Here is their conference site, October 19th

IS CHRISTIANITY THE GENESIS OF 
MODERN PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE?
JOIN US SAT. 19TH OCTOBER 2013 FOR A UNIQUE SYMPOSIUM
AT CONWAY HALL 25 RED LION SQUARE, LONDON
IT'S NOT JUST ANCIENT HISTORY

20 posted on 10/11/2013 10:07:12 PM PDT by CMB_polarization
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To: CMB_polarization

What I don’t understand is how in the world this is getting headlines on some news outlets.

If I came out and said “I can prove the theory of relativity false!” and that I was a “self proclaimed physicist”, would MSN and others run a headline

BREAKING NEWS: Self-proclaimed physicist disproves theory of relativity!

Is that what our media has become now? Anyone can make headlines? They don’t even have to be a drunk celebrity anymore? I can’t help but think these media outlets are just trying to push an anti-Christian narrative into the public domain even if the story is ridiculous.


21 posted on 10/11/2013 10:08:36 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: CMB_polarization

lol


22 posted on 10/11/2013 10:08:45 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: Viennacon

All they have to do is protest against conservatives or something traditional.

You get 16 illegals to protest and its national news, you have a million conservatives protest Obama and its ignored.


23 posted on 10/11/2013 10:09:50 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: Viennacon

Yup they had a cat food problem there. What, they didn’t pay enough taxes? Nope, they didn’t worship Caesar. And you’re saying Caesar consented to conspire... what???

He deserves to get laughed out of his presentation.


24 posted on 10/11/2013 10:10:36 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Army Air Corps

I think this “Joseph Atwill” is some sort of fabricated Biblical scholar. I don’t think he exists.


25 posted on 10/11/2013 10:10:40 PM PDT by Charles Henrickson (B.A., M.Div., S.T.M., "ABD" on a Ph.D. in Biblical Studies)
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To: CMB_polarization
Quoted from the conference web page:

"The calendar we use today marks the life of Jesus Christ as the beginning of a new chapter in Western civilisation, a new era inspired by Christ's message of love, charity, humility, peace, and justice. But established history tells us that Christianity became entangled in politics, wealth, violence, and empire because the institutional religion strayed from the moral teachings of its founder. How did it go so wrong?

The latest in Biblical scholarship has now uncovered new evidence that provides a disturbing explanation: Christianity never strayed; Jesus Christ is a fabricated cover story for an Imperial psychological warfare operation born out of the First Jewish-Roman War in the first century. Far-fetched and absurd? The quality of the evidence we'll be presenting may surprise you.

Joseph Atwill explains, "This is really important for our culture..."

AN EXPOSÉ ON CHRISTIANITY WHOSE TIME HAS COME Join us for a one-day symposium that will provide a unique insight into how the ruling classes, from the Caesars of the past to the public relations firms working for governments and high finance today, have maintained power and an unending stealth class war by weaponising our own imagination against us. This is sure to engage not just students of religion and history, but also those interested in psychology, politics, and social justice.

In attendance will be our guest speakers Joseph Atwill and Kenneth Humphreys. We are also proud to feature the European premiere of the groundbreaking documentary Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus directed by Fritz Heede."

26 posted on 10/11/2013 10:10:40 PM PDT by CMB_polarization
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I hope he is soundly humiliated by actual historians. What a crapweasel.


27 posted on 10/11/2013 10:12:21 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: Charles Henrickson

Mayhap he received his degree from a box of Cracker Jacks.


28 posted on 10/11/2013 10:12:25 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: CMB_polarization
Joseph Atwill explains, "This is really important for our culture..."

It is. To show how hooting down Christ goes over like a lead balloon, except that this would be an insult to lead balloons!

29 posted on 10/11/2013 10:13:04 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Viennacon

I think Barack Obama is trying hard to become another worshipped Caesar... though to be fair, unless millions were ready to worship a yahoo like this, Barack would get nowhere.

Anyhow back to our schedule eyeroll.


30 posted on 10/11/2013 10:17:50 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Army Air Corps

Since when was a Cracker Jack prize that worthless :-)


31 posted on 10/11/2013 10:18:53 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Viennacon

Funny how the Romans couldn’t play a similar trick on the Huns, eh. Or is Atwill saying that only a certain segment of the Jews and Greeks were stupid?


32 posted on 10/11/2013 10:19:29 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Viennacon

Given the left-leaning stance of “some news outlets”, how could they hold back?


33 posted on 10/11/2013 10:20:20 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

The very quintenssence of cockamamie, huh.


34 posted on 10/11/2013 10:20:37 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Olog-hai

God lets the devil lure fools into... looking foolish!

And it gets worse and worse until FINALLY even the stupidest person can see it.


35 posted on 10/11/2013 10:21:46 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Barack can only dream of being Caesar.

Caesar was a successful general before holding office. Obama was just a shitty community organizer.

No, if I’m going to give that doofus any kind of former leader to hang his turban on, it would probably be Jim Jones. The cult mentality of his moonbat followers is Kool-Aidtacular.


36 posted on 10/11/2013 10:23:46 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: Olog-hai

Might also make you wonder why they needed to create a new religion. They already had one, and it didn’t star them as the villains!


37 posted on 10/11/2013 10:25:01 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Touché, amigo. Touché


38 posted on 10/11/2013 10:27:40 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: Viennacon

Well Barack is busy with his most spectacular smoke and mirrors yet ... Obamacare.


39 posted on 10/11/2013 10:30:38 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: GeronL

It also doesn’t do them any good to propagate the teaching of this “pacifist religion” to non-Jews too (like Roman citizens). Great way to make your empire full of “weaklings.”
Furthermore, it doesn’t do them any favors creating a heretic group and throwing the region into turmoil. Finally, Rome does not benefit if they create accounts against themselves in regards to mass child homicide (Matthew 2:16) and execution of a innocent man (Matthew 27).
This is aluminium tin foil hat level conspiracy.


40 posted on 10/11/2013 10:40:09 PM PDT by NullPointerException
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To: NullPointerException

Yep


41 posted on 10/11/2013 10:41:22 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: Olog-hai

i think his “little known group” was actually called the Pythons. he just was a little mixed up.


42 posted on 10/11/2013 10:42:20 PM PDT by dadfly
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To: Olog-hai

Some atheists are friendly to religion.


43 posted on 10/11/2013 11:38:35 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: Olog-hai

B.S.


44 posted on 10/12/2013 12:18:04 AM PDT by RedMonqey ("Gun-free zones" equal "Target-rich environment.")
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To: Olog-hai

Bookmarked for later as I am sure some smartypants is going to come up to me and repeat this nonsense. At least I can point out that even atheist see the stupidity of this bull!


45 posted on 10/12/2013 12:51:20 AM PDT by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: Olog-hai
There's no such thing as Darwin. He was invented by a cabal of Illuminati Elitists to keep idiot students and college professors in line.

Don't tell me there's "pictures" or "written proof" of a "historical Darwin". I'VE never seen him, you'll have to produce the man in person for me to believe in him.

MY personal scientific theory is that Charles Darwin is based on Santa Claus. Now college professors and so-called "intellectuals" will tell you that Santa is a myth and Darwin was a real person...MY theory is that it's the other way around, that "Charles Darwin" was created Agnostic Monks to counter the joy and fun that comes from Santa Claus at Christmas.

46 posted on 10/12/2013 1:48:28 AM PDT by MuttTheHoople (Nothing is more savage and brutal than justifiably angry Americans. DonÂ’t believe me? Ask the Germa)
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To: Olog-hai
Good grief, what is it with Americans? I dont want to be critical guys, but is there a problem with the water supply over there? Are you all really this paranoid?

I know that a lot of you are (rightly) suspicious of government but really, this preoccupation with conspiracy theories is getting way over the top. It's bad enough that a double digits percentage of the population honestly believe that 9/11 was an inside job and that NASA never landed anyone on the moon, but now we got this kook making up complicated conspiratorial ideas about the Roman government, 2000 years ago, conducting some kind of subornation operation on Judaism? This being the same government that regularly derided the social upheaval caused by Christian ideas on recipricol obligation and systematically massacred them in immense numbers over the next two centuries - but really they were all on the same side? And this is pretty much completely based on Jesus' famous quote of "render unto Caesar"? Did this guy consult any theologians - you know, people who are expert in this kind of thing - before he wrote his book?

The depressing thing is that in spite of the contention of the article's author, some people are really going to be convinced by this.

47 posted on 10/12/2013 2:13:46 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: MuttTheHoople

LOL - very good.


48 posted on 10/12/2013 2:18:09 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: dadfly

Actually it was the Klingons


49 posted on 10/12/2013 3:52:49 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: CMB_polarization
"...and all the world wondered after the beast." (Revelation 13:3) After they were deceived by the likes of Atwill. What the supposedly proRoman Lord said to Herod applies to him:

"And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected." (Luke 13:32)

Tell that fox - A fox is an emblem of slyness, of cunning, and of artful mischief. The word is also used to denote a dissembler. Herod was a wicked man, but the “particular thing” to which Jesus here alludes is not his “vices,” but his “cunning, his artifice,” in endeavoring to remove him out of his territory. He had endeavored to do it by stratagem - by sending these people who pretended great friendship for his life. - Barnes

That fox (tēi alōpeki tautēi). This epithet for the cunning and cowardice of Herod shows clearly that Jesus understood the real attitude and character of the man who had put John the Baptist to death and evidently wanted to get Jesus into his power in spite of his superstitious fears that he might be John the Baptist redivivus. The message of Jesus means that he is independent of the plots and schemes of both Herod and the Pharisees. The preacher is often put in a tight place by politicians who are quite willing to see him shorn of all real power. - Robertson

In calling him a fox, he gives him his true character; for he was subtle as a fox, noted for his craft, and treachery, and baseness, and preying (as they say of a fox) furthest from his own den. And, though it is a black and ugly character, yet it did not ill become Christ to give it to him, nor was it in him a violation of that law, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people. For Christ was a prophet, and prophets always had a liberty of speech in reproving princes and great men. Nay, Christ was more than a prophet, he was a king, he was King of kings, and the greatest of men were accountable to him, and therefore it became him to call this proud king by his own name; but it is not to be drawn into an example by us. “Go, and tell that fox, yea, and this fox too” (for so it is in the original, tē alōpeki tautē); “that Pharisee, whoever he is, that whispers this in my ear, let him know that I do not fear him, nor regard his menaces.. - Henry

50 posted on 10/12/2013 4:04:04 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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