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One less SWAT team
The MetroWest Daily News ^ | Oct 13, 2013 | Rick Holmes/Opinion editor

Posted on 10/13/2013 11:42:43 AM PDT by Zuben Elgenubi

The idea that every town must have a police SWAT team is relatively new. While just a handful of big cities had SWAT teams 30 years ago, now 80 percent of towns with populations between 25,000 and 50,000 have them.

Now there is one fewer. Quietly and with no public debate, Framingham’s SWAT team has been disbanded.  Chief Steven Carl gave the order as he and the SWAT commander left the department for other jobs.

Carl told me the disbanding of the SWAT team wasn’t just something he did on the way out the door. Two years ago he told the Stamps Commission he’d have to disband the unit if the team commander, Deputy Chief Craig Davis, ever left the force.

That civilian commission had been convened by Carl to review the Framingham SWAT team’s worst night, when a team member accidentally shot and killed Eurie Stamps Sr., 68, as he lay face down on the floor of his home.

The SWAT team had been serving a search warrant in a routine drug case and they’d given the Stamps home the full SWAT treatment: A midnight raid complete with battering rams, flash-bomb grenades, and 23 heavily armed officers, who caught Stamps in his pajamas.  Stamps cooperated, and there were no drugs or guns found in the house, but he was killed by an officer who said he stumbled and his weapon fired by accident.

Stamps left a large family grieving, a minority community upset and Framingham facing a potentially expensive wrongful death suit.

Carl’s commission recommended a smaller SWAT team with more time devoted to training. The incident strengthened the chief’s opinion that if Davis left the department, there would be no one with the training, skills and responsibility required to supervise the unit. It would take five to ten years to train someone else to match Davis’ qualifications, Carl said.

There’s also the expense.  Framingham SWAT team members must train at least 40 hours a year plus 16 hours a month. With 12 to 14 members on the team, that amounts to more than 3,000 officer hours a year in training, much of it charged as overtime, either by the SWAT officers or others brought in to fill their shifts.

Since the situations for which SWAT teams are trained – hostage-takings, armed and barricaded subjects, snipers, etc. – are so rare in a town like Framingham, Carl said, “you’re paying a lot for an insurance policy.”


TOPICS: Conspiracy
KEYWORDS: defund; massachusetts; swat; swatdisbanded; team
First time I recall a SWAT team has been disbanded. Some interesting links in the comment section


1 posted on 10/13/2013 11:42:43 AM PDT by Zuben Elgenubi
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

Barry’s “civilian army” has been screwing up a lot lately. They’ve been murdering a lot of innocent “seniors” coming out of bed in their pajamas in the middle of the night to see what the hell is going on in THEIR house. I guess it gives the ObamaCare Death Panel “navigators” one less case to have to deal with.


2 posted on 10/13/2013 11:51:10 AM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (The DemocRAT Pahtay! Spending our grandchildren's future, today!)
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

Good for them, we don’t often see common sense prevailing in the post-9/11 facism.


3 posted on 10/13/2013 11:53:52 AM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

This needs to happen at state level around the US. Basically, that for the rare occasions that paramilitarism is needed, it should be conducted by county Sheriffs, under strict guidelines, not police departments.

The state law would first mandate what equipment police departments could use, and who they could obtain that equipment from. The feds have been larding up police departments with all sorts of surplus military gear, which they do not need and should not have.

So if they already have equipment not on the list, it must be turned over to the Sheriff. Any SWAT activities must be carried out by the Sheriff’s office, for situations that require SWAT, only.

Next, the states need to reform the state police academy training, to train officers away from SWAT tactics, to more of a role of peacekeeper, not paramilitary.


4 posted on 10/13/2013 11:56:26 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (The best War on Terror News is at rantburg.com)
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

is the cop being charged with involuntary manslaughter? (I know the answer by looking into my crystal ball)


5 posted on 10/13/2013 11:57:33 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Vince Ferrer
Good for them, we don’t often see common sense prevailing in the post-9/11 facism.

Especially around here in MA.

6 posted on 10/13/2013 12:01:50 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (So Obama "inherited" a mess? Firemen "inherit" messes too. Ever see one put gasoline on it?)
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

This raid sounds like an appropriate force for an assault on the hideout of Scarface.

I understand the principle of overwhelming force saving lives, but suspect the cops are going overboard.

This story is almost as sad as that of the little girl a couple of years ago killed because the cops were trying to stage a spectacular raid for “reality TV.” Too real for her.

What is left out of these stories is that with this many excited heavily armed men running around, a certain amount of “collateral damage” is inevitable. In military operations quite a number of guys die from “friendly fire,” much less the number of civilians “accidentally” killed.

Sometimes it seems like the Rules of Engagement are more strict in Afghanistan than America.


7 posted on 10/13/2013 12:02:11 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

This raid sounds like an appropriate force for an assault on the hideout of Scarface.

I understand the principle of overwhelming force saving lives, but suspect the cops are going overboard.

This story is almost as sad as that of the little girl a couple of years ago killed because the cops were trying to stage a spectacular raid for “reality TV.” Too real for her.

What is left out of these stories is that with this many excited heavily armed men running around, a certain amount of “collateral damage” is inevitable. In military operations quite a number of guys die from “friendly fire,” much less the number of civilians “accidentally” killed.

Sometimes it seems like the Rules of Engagement are more strict in Afghanistan than America.


8 posted on 10/13/2013 12:03:14 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

What is your reason for believing sheriff’s departments will handle this task any better than police forces?


9 posted on 10/13/2013 12:04:16 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

Disbanded SWAT team ?

Doggies are way safer now...


10 posted on 10/13/2013 12:07:18 PM PDT by Popman (Liberal wars are about killing people for humanitarian reasons...)
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To: from occupied ga

If not involuntary manslaughter, then negligent homicide.

They probably gave him a promotion instead.


11 posted on 10/13/2013 12:07:26 PM PDT by july4thfreedomfoundation (The Second Amendment makes all the other amendments possible)
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To: Sherman Logan
My sheriff is elected. The police chief is not.

/johnny

12 posted on 10/13/2013 12:10:52 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Zuben Elgenubi
the first SWAT team in the area was in Elmira, and on their first outing, they had a blue on blue killing... but they didn't let a little thing like that stop them
13 posted on 10/13/2013 12:12:10 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

SWAT teams are severe overkill in most cases, and they make a lot of mistakes, like getting the wrong addresses. Sheriff’s departments have them. State police have them, as do some of the city police, and there are ATF, FBI, and federal marshals, the EPA, the IRS and others. Sometimes they all get together to throw a house crashing party, cuff some half naked people on the floor, burn down communes, and shoot babies, old people and dogs. And cops wonder why conservative who normally support the police who do their jobs with honor and decency are getting a little Pi$$ed off about abuse of power and thuggish brutality.


14 posted on 10/13/2013 12:15:08 PM PDT by pallis
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To: Zuben Elgenubi
Good.

Repeat as necessary.

15 posted on 10/13/2013 12:38:23 PM PDT by elkfersupper
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

Good. Repeat as necessary.


16 posted on 10/13/2013 12:48:02 PM PDT by elkfersupper
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

“I trained for a whole 40 hours, I’m whatchacallit, an expert, dawg.... now...oops! my bad.”

lol


17 posted on 10/13/2013 12:57:15 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

cities are agencies of the states and the states need to put their boot down on this crap.


18 posted on 10/13/2013 12:58:04 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

“if Davis left the department, there would be no one with the training, skills and responsibility required to supervise the unit.”

It amazes me that they can say this with a straight face.

Who was supervising the night Ernie Stumps got it.

Who was supervising during the time that the unit was (per the investigation) too big and not trained enough?


19 posted on 10/13/2013 12:59:57 PM PDT by TalBlack (Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

Here we go again.....in this day and age, individual officers are trained in SWAT tactics because in an active shooter situation...patrol officers CANT wait for the time it takes to call out, brief and insert a SWAT team. Hence the issuance of rifles to patrol officers. And what pray tell, is the reason for keeping SWAT relegated to the Sheriff office? SWAT has its uses and purpose...when properly trained and employed...


20 posted on 10/13/2013 1:06:57 PM PDT by bike800
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To: july4thfreedomfoundation
OTO if the old guy had managed to kill one of the thugs...

Plus I don't buy accident. There is only one side of the story that we'll ever hear. To kill someone with impunity is why all to many police join up.

21 posted on 10/13/2013 1:11:13 PM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

boys with matches = formerly beat up boys with MACHINE GUNS and a badge.

Both are very bad ideas and we need to see much, much more of this.

These are bored action junkies who need to work out their problems in some OTHER, less expensive way.


22 posted on 10/13/2013 1:24:28 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

Besides, if they get in a bind they can always request the Dept. of Education, EPA, National Park Service, Social Security, Dept. of Agriculture, etc. SWAT team for support. They will be there kicking down doors, rousting old women and men, shooting dogs, etc. before you can get a no knock search warrant in their hands .... of course it might not be the right address but they will be as efficient as hell.


23 posted on 10/13/2013 1:47:18 PM PDT by RetiredTexasVet (When His Arrogance talks out of his a$$, Harry Reid's lips move.)
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To: All

If you support the war on drugs, then you support these raids.


24 posted on 10/13/2013 1:47:47 PM PDT by Molon Labbie (Prep. Now. Live Healthy, take your Shooting Iron daily.)
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To: All

If you support the war on drugs, then you support these raids.


25 posted on 10/13/2013 1:47:57 PM PDT by Molon Labbie (Prep. Now. Live Healthy, take your Shooting Iron daily.)
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To: Sherman Logan

It has to do with organization and hierarchy. Chiefs of police are hired, Sheriffs are elected.

Other than with their city council, police departments are fairly autonomous within states, which is why it is doubly disturbing for them to have a direct relationship with the federal government. This should be forbidden.

Sheriffs have a relationship both with their county supervisors, and with the state. They are the Common Law head of the Posse Comitatus (not to be confused with the federal Posse Comitatus Act), which means they can deputize any adults to carry out the law, or respond to a “Hue and Cry” against criminals.

Constitutionally, it gets very interesting. Over the years, the US Supreme Court has decided that the US congress is superior to state legislatures, and that federal judges are superior to state judges. But they have never found that the president is superior to a state governor.

This means that if they are at loggerheads, the only way a POTUS can force his will on a governor is by sending in the US Army (the most recent example being Eisenhower’s use of the 101st Airborne Division to force integration into the Little Rock High School, against governor Orval Faubus, Bill Clinton’s mentor.) (Likewise, W. Bush could not send in relief after hurricane Katrina, because the governor of Louisiana would not give him permission to do so.)

I use this as background, to point out that the POTUS is to a state governor, as a state governor is to a county Sheriff.

On the surface it sounds a bit confusing, I’ll agree, but in that there are, at times, legitimate applications for the use of a SWAT team, properly it should be regulated by the state, and operated at the county level. Cities are often too irresponsible, and it could take the state police too long to respond.


26 posted on 10/13/2013 1:56:18 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (The best War on Terror News is at rantburg.com)
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To: bike800
when properly trained and employed...

Key phrase.

27 posted on 10/13/2013 2:18:01 PM PDT by Oatka (This is America. Assimilate or evaporate.)
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To: Molon Labbie
If you support the war on drugs, then you support these raids.

Nailed it.

28 posted on 10/13/2013 2:18:07 PM PDT by Ken H (First rule of gun safety - have a gun)
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To: Ken H

Thanks, and that’s coming from a former drug warrior.


29 posted on 10/13/2013 2:26:10 PM PDT by Molon Labbie (Prep. Now. Live Healthy, take your Shooting Iron daily.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

SWAT is the goal of State Dept Pub 7277, Freedom From War.

Internal paramilitary forces rise to deal with intra-country issues.

Actual military forces go more and more under world organization controls.

Exactly what’s been going on since this document was created.


30 posted on 10/13/2013 3:07:21 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Zuben Elgenubi
The SWAT team had been serving a search warrant in a routine drug case and they’d given the Stamps home the full SWAT treatment: A midnight raid complete with battering rams, flash-bomb grenades, and 23 heavily armed officers, who caught Stamps in his pajamas. Stamps cooperated, and there were no drugs or guns found in the house, but he was killed by an officer who said he stumbled and his weapon fired by accident.

I am a 60 year old woman who just got my CCW and my first gun. I spent a LOT of time and money with the course, the background checks, the pictures, the fingerprints, the range time to get certified, the safety briefings, the waiting period, and the sworn affidavits that I have never been involved in arrests, domestic violence, DWI, mental illness, or illegal drug use. I had to Swear to this.

Yet these clowns have no trouble brandishing, pointing at, shooting, or killing innocent civilians.

It's maddening.
31 posted on 10/13/2013 3:19:41 PM PDT by left that other site (You Shall Know the Truth, and the Truth Shall Set You Free...John 8:32)
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

BTTT


32 posted on 10/13/2013 5:24:33 PM PDT by hattend (Firearms and ammunition...the only growing industries under the Obama regime.)
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To: Zuben Elgenubi; Squantos; osagebowman; g'nad
What a great PR photo from the Framingham SWAT team. It shows how that 40 hours of training for the team leader really paid off. The entire entry team posing in the wrong end of one of the simplest kill zones anybody could hope for.

Dark uniforms against a light-colored background. Framed by a narrow, illuminated hallway with two guys standing in a well-lit doorway. An upright posture fine for shopping the aisles of Wallyworld, and for catching bullets.

I know this is a classic image from the movies and TV, and it was probably thrown together in just a few minutes. I know I'm just a po' dumb "civilian" (those guys are civilians too), but I've spent more time in my military and civilian life in shoot houses and simulations than they have. Including live fire against "shoot-no-shoot" targets in low light.

America now has a few million ex-door kickers who learned on the mean streets of Iraq, and the mud villages of Afghanistan. An Army or Marine unit that performed like they did would be doing various amounts of time at hard labor at Levenworth or Portsmouth. All I got out of that picture was a gigantic facepalm about how NOT to publicize your "trained, experienced" SWAT team so it leaves a warm, fuzzy feeling with the taxpayers.

33 posted on 10/13/2013 5:29:20 PM PDT by 300winmag (Whatever CAN go wrong has already happened. We just don't know about it yet.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy; Sherman Logan

Many of them aren’t what they were in the past. In at least some jurisdictions, their titles (”officer,” “sergeant,” etc.) and training are more like those of municipals. The voters tend to re-elect them rather automatically and enjoy resulting chaos. Some even repeatedly and conspicuously have as election opponents, dramatic, extreme psycho-lefties and liberaltarians without any reasonable alternatives.


34 posted on 10/13/2013 7:57:26 PM PDT by familyop
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To: 300winmag

Thank you for your insight, it is most helpful.


35 posted on 10/14/2013 9:17:46 AM PDT by Zuben Elgenubi
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To: JRandomFreeper

Not in urban counties, they’re essentially appointees who run for office. That’s how it is here in Cook County aka Crook County.


36 posted on 10/14/2013 7:39:25 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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