Posted on 10/14/2013 7:56:14 AM PDT by Blueflag
Gun FReepers --
I am seeking clarification on a "deer rifle" that can serve as an adequate firearm for someone beginning to hunt game with larger caliber center-fire scoped rifle. More follows below.
p.s, I am a long time pistol / rimfire / AR shooter, and am just now moving up to hunting game with a .308 and lack 1st-hand knowledge.
I am seeking clarification on a "deer rifle" that can serve as an adequate firearm for someone beginning to hunt game with larger caliber center-fire scoped rifle.
The firearm must also be adequate to task should rule 308 need to be applied in less civil circumstances, and *MUST* inter-operate with the corresponding military 7.62 rounds.
I am seeking therefore to spec a .308, scoped rifle in the class of a Remington 700 with a scope.
1. Is a Remington 700 .308 an adequate firearm? (I realize there are better ones, but is the Remington 700 series good enough)
1.1 what length barrel?
1.2 Any particular model? (SPS / SS/ other?)
2. I have little interest in bragging rights with a Leupold scope - is a Nikon good enough?
2.1 What range of magnification, sight, etc is recommended?
3. My intent if to have the .308 civilian and/or military 7.62 option. Is this really practical?
3.1 any special cautions/ warnings?
Thanks as always to the FReeper community.
What’s your budget?
1. Is a Remington 700 .308 an adequate firearm? (I realize there are better ones, but is the Remington 700 series good enough)
Yes. For everything on the NA continent. With the right bullet.
1.1 what length barrel? A hunting rifle usually wears a 22 to 24 inch barrel. That is fine.
1.2 Any particular model? (SPS / SS/ other?) Plain ol M70 308 sporter, ADL/BDL (one has a blind magazine (no floor plate) the other has bottom metal and allows you to dump the round sin the magazine w/o running them through the bolt/chamber)
2. I have little interest in bragging rights with a Leupold scope - is a Nikon good enough? yes, but they are not made in the US if that means anything to you....
2.1 What range of magnification, sight, etc is recommended? 3x9 or 4x12 is good enough for most any applicatipon, from 50 yds to 800 ( about the max effective range of the 308/7.62) at deer sized target ( 9x14 vital zone
3. My intent if to have the .308 civilian and/or military 7.62 option. Is this really practical? Sure. Just realize the 308 win and the 7.62 NATO are not the same round (pressure wise, but in a bolt gun, I would not be concerned.
3.1 any special cautions/ warnings?
Wear eye and ear protection, be sure of your target and beyond, always assume every gun is loaded. Practice. Load your own if you want optimum, accuracy, performance and quality.
Best;
A Remington 700 in .308 will be just fine.
Look into something with .308 Winchester stamped on the barrel for caliber information, it should also take 7.62x51 Nato w/ no issues. It’s still debated on the interwebs as to whether the two rounds are truly interchangeable, the big issue being the shoulder angles on the cartridge cases themselves. Regarding SAAMI specs regarding pressure, .308 is higher, and desirable. I’ve run South African surplus .308 through a converted Garand with no issues.
In the event of “less civil” circumstances requiring the use of 7.62 Nato, well, there will be plenty of other options in the event that a .308 rifle has issues feeding 7.62. Just my 2 cents though.
I shoot both 7.62 and .308 through my Rem 700. A .308 can carry you up to Elk. I have known those that have taken Moose with a .308.
I own a 700 in .308,26” heavy barrel.Absolutely the most accurate rifle out of the box that I’ve ever shot.Using Federal Gold Medal ammo you can expect to shoot 1.125 inch groups at 200 yards.(Or better,that’s the best that I can do.)I have a Leopold scope mounted on it,but there are a bunch of good scopes out there.The rifle will shoot M80 ball ammo well too,if that’s what’s available.
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Best, most concise information you’ve ever given.
My budget is what it takes, suitable for purpose.
Don’t intend to go high end, as I will never use this firearm as much as my pistols, .22s, & AR.
I don’t seek good looks, stainless steel, composite/checkered expenses, etc. Function rules.
I just want lead downrange on-target in the 300+ yd range.
7.62 is lower pressure than .308, so no pressure problems switching from .308 to 7.62 NATO. Remington 700 is civie version of the military M24, which is still the basic sniper rifle for the Marine Corp. So if it’s good enough for the Marines, ought to be fine in a less civil situation.
Thanks! AND LOL on the last line (general firearm performance and safety rules)
!
Consider also a Savage Model 10.
Thanks! And per your point about options ... I am ready to apply rule 223/556 as needed.
Thanks. Good to get the scoop from a 700 shooter/owner.
The .308 was derived from the 30-06, which was too long to cycle well in full-automatic weapons. The .308 is a shorter version of the 30-06, but ballistically similar, the .308 having slight less powder capacity and thus slightly lower muzzle velocity than the 30-06. I have had a lot easier time finding 30-06 ammo on the shelves. Don't see much .308. Just saying.
will check it out. Thanks!
Savage 110 is a good choice too, and costs a bit less.
.308 win is a very good all around cartridge.
.30-06 is just as good of course the love afair of .308 win/7.62 nato is a bit odd at times. The need for a .mil cal in a hunting rifle is not all that great unless you want to have a all the same cal for muti uses.
like this combo.
M1A
M700 / savage 110
AR with 7.62 upper
FN-FAL
G-3 (or clone)
and maybe a Scout rifle like a Ruger Gunsite model.
Other options should always include “what will the other side be equipped with”.
Looking through the scope, what is your preference for the reticle / sight?
Go with the Remington 700 recomneded by the other posters. Nikon is one of the biggest optics manufactureres in the world. I'm not specifically familiar eith their scopes, but they should be just fine. You might want to consider thermal or NV 2+G or 3g if you have the wherewithall.
Good range of options.
I have a warm spot in my heart for Remington, due to very favorable experience with their scatter guns.
Never owned anything Savage.
Would LOVE to have an AR with a 308/762 upper, but those ARE pricey. The S&W .308 AR looks to be a sweet gun, but geesh ... $
If you’ve got the money (about $1,500) look in to a Springfield Armory M1A, the semi-auto version of the of the military M-14. It’s a really sweet rifle that field strips easily, uses military ball ammo, takes a scope, loads with a 20 round external magazine, and wlll allow you to lay down a terrific barrage at a longer effective range than either a M-16 or AK-47.
Here in GA the big box stores are pretty much always out of the 30-06 and 308. MY two favorite ranges have it, and sometime limit purchases.
I likely would not be ‘sport shooting’ with this rifle - burning up ammo like I do .22 .223 and .45. Just enough to stay current, and likely outdoors on our rural property.
But all good advice. Thanks.
The rifle comes in a tough polymer stock and has a 4-round integral magazine. Barrel is a 20 or 24 inches, free floated (does not touch the stock), heavy weight, crowned and recessed for accuracy. No iron sights are provided. The receiver is pre-drilled and tapped for scope bases. Newest models come with an adjustable AccuTrigger. The rifle weighs about 8-1/2 lbs.
To complete my rifle I added a set of quick detach 1-1/4 inch sling swivels, a Mil-Std 1913 scope base from Mounting Solutions Plus, a set trigger from Sharpshooter Supply (mine did not come with an AccuTrigger), A.R.M.S. No. 22M 30mm throw lever rings, and a Tasco Model 10-42M Super Sniper Mil-Dot scope from SWFA (sole distributor for this scope). This scope is built to the same Mil-Spec as the Leopold Mk IV by Japanese optics maker Hakko, and is 1/3 the cost ($399) of the Leopold.
The rifle is perfect for both deer hunting or precision shooting. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savage_10FP
I have a Remington 700 w/ a Luepold MK-IV and a Springfield M1A.
I could mound a scope on the M1 but, I like it just the way it is.
M1fires anything and all day.
Accurate and I don’t recall any failures.
I took it completely apart last month and found no dust or Cruz anywhere.
I wiped everything down and won’t be doing that again for a while.
I’m looking into possibly acquiring one of these. I don’t know much about it. So I put a marker in the thread so I could come back and read and learn.
.308 is my most favorite round to shoot after .22.
Don’t buy a heavy barrel for hunting, unless you’re going to sit at a table and wait all day for something to cross your path. I have a 20” heavy barrel on my .308, which I love, but I can’t stand the thought of packing it around for even a day in the woods.
I bought the Remington 700 w/ camo stock and 3x9 house brand scope in .270 for hunting. It works great and the whole setup was so inexpensive I never worry about rain, marring the stock, etc.
My main concern is self-defense and home defense.
I just bought an AR lower and plan to build that one. A friend of mine got an upper on a sliding rail. Says it will have improved accuracy.
Probably won’t go there, $$imply from a ‘dual use’ perspective.
My intent is not barrage or suppression fire, (like a poor man’s SAW) rather ‘hit THAT target’ outside .223 effective range. Great firearm though - I agree.
From a hunting perspective, I don’t EVER want to wound an animal, rather take it down, and while some folks DO hunt larger game with a 223, I just don’t want to go there. I like the 308 and the 30-06, but prefer the 308 for the interoperability.
thanks will check it out. Sounds like a nice firearm and a proven set - up. Will probably NOT go Leopold for $$ reasons.
Good to have choices.
Ping for your entertainment.
Remington 700 is superb.
Depends on where your hunting from as well. Tree stand, tent, out in the open.
I would get one of each to make sure
My intent is NOT to sit in a tree stand/ blind, but rather be out in the woods.
At least 51% of the enjoyment I get out of hunting is the day I spend in the woods.
Never liked ‘still hunting’ since I was a kid. I can’t pay attention that long ;-)
I’d say that’s good advice.
I’ve do mainly bow hunting anymore—because in KY, bow season for turkey and deer start up in early Sept and runs thru to Jan (obviously a really long season). Modern gun season in KY is only about two weeks in November—and every rookie in the state, carrying a .30-06 gets excited when the wind blows branches around.
By the way, I like stalking and not in a deer stand—so I stay out of the woods during modern gun season. LOL
Why would anyone post their personal information on firearms on a public post for the NSA to build their “forearm registry” with?
Loose lips sink ships!
“Firearm registry”
That's worse than 'bait & wait' fishing, at least fishing, you can drink beers and smoke a stogie and not scare the fish away, if you really even care about catching fish.
Have shot 30:06 for years and never any glitch, shooting or finding ammo.
After seeing R-700 “self fire”, I prefer Ruger with their Mouser action.
Tons of ammo of all calibers here in Alberta. I just bought 1k winchester .22 lr hollowpoints for my son’s henry .22 lever I bought him for his birthday. A brick of .22, the good stuff is 29.95 a box.
I also shoot my .308 robinson arms xcr a lot, no trouble finding ammo. I thought the ammo situation was back to normal considering how much I see here, has it not bounced back there?
Love stalking too, but if you want deer you need to know they never get tired of “paying attention”, well except when little head is doing the thinking.
Funny. I was actually going to make a similar reference to why I HATE fishing from a boat in fresh water. B O R I N G.
Stalking and tracking is much better than the stand + baited field method. ;-) [ not that I am any good at it, by the way, but it makes for a better day in the woods. ]
YMMV.
Interesting reply.
On Gunbroker: Ruger M77 Hawkeye 308 Win. All Weather $665.00; bare rifle.
Fits the spec I seek.
I’ll look into it.
Guess Spell Check doesn’t know the diff between MOUSEr and Mauser.
Unfortunately for freedom-loving citizens of the USA the opposition will be using rounds that are standard issue to USA armed forces.
So it might be best to have equipment that can leverage this.
OK ... I googled it.
75 lawsuits, +/- and 5+ million sold.
Per several articles, what makes the rifle good (smooth trigger) is also where it *might* have its weakness. A misaligned (due to high-G impacts and inadequate maintenance) mechanism *CAN* put the firearm into a self-fire condition.
Interesting.
By way of analogy, a rear-engine Porsche CAN more readily oversteer - which is good for a competent, attentive driver and deadly to Mr. Mom. But it is also a source of its superior performance on the race track.
Caveat emptor.
Remington bolt guns are the most dangerous rifle in the known world.
AMEN! A friend once brought his Rem M700 in 7mm Mag over to my house because it had been mis-firing. I took it to my range, sighted through the scope and pulled the trigger. Nothing - not even a “click”. Leaving the rifle pointed toward the target (thank God!) I turned to speak with him standing behind me and the rifle fired. I unloaded the weapon and advised my friend that he needed to take it to a qualified gunsmith immediately.
That was the LAST time I handled a Remington M700. All of my bolt guns are Rugers or mil-surp Mausers. Never had a problem with them.
We live in odd times. Normally 308 is more available and cheaper but not right now.
Unless you handload, there is not much benefit from going from 308 to 30-06.
I’m biased, though, I cut my teeth on 308 and used to buy surplus ammo by the case.
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