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Pope Francis: ‘The Devil Is on the First Page of the Bible’
Cybercast News Service ^ | October 15, 2013 - 5:04 PM | Michael W. Chapman

Posted on 10/15/2013 9:48:37 PM PDT by Olog-hai

Pope Francis said it is true that in the past, people with epilepsy might have been mischaracterized as being possessed by demons, but that confusion did not refute the fact that the Devil exists and is so important that he “is on the first page of the Bible” and at the Bible’s end, “with the victory of God over the Devil.” …

As for his comments on Satan and other demons, the Pope said, “Some may say, ‘But Father, you’re too old-fashioned. You’re frightening us with these things.’ No, it’s not me! It is the Gospel! And these are not lies: it is the Word of the Lord. Let us ask the Lord for the grace to take these things seriously. He came to fight for our salvation. He won against the Devil. Please, let’s not do business with the Devil. He wants to come back home, to take possession … Don’t accept relativism; be vigilant. And always with Jesus!” …

(Excerpt) Read more at cnsnews.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Miscellaneous; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: bible; catholicism; popefrancis; satan

1 posted on 10/15/2013 9:48:37 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

I am not sure what to make of Francis.

He is kinda like Ted Cruz.
Rocking the boat while gently guiding the oar.


2 posted on 10/15/2013 9:53:53 PM PDT by mylife (Ted Cruz understands the law, and he does not fear the unlawful.)
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To: Olog-hai
Hmmmm. My New Jerusalem Bible must not be the one with the extra big pages. But I don't think there are many copies where Chapter Three comes on the first page...
3 posted on 10/15/2013 9:54:13 PM PDT by FredZarguna (The sequel, thoroughly pointless, derivative, and boring was like all James Cameron "films.")
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To: FredZarguna

I suspect something got lost in the translation of what the Pope said. Besides that, since “In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth...” includes EVERYTHING that was created, including the angels who became fallen angels...then yes, the devil, like Adam and Eve, is on the first page.


4 posted on 10/15/2013 10:00:14 PM PDT by AnalogReigns (Real life is ANALOG!)
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To: mylife
"I am not sure what to make of Francis. He is kinda like Ted Cruz."

Unfortunately, he's more like Obama.

5 posted on 10/15/2013 10:07:33 PM PDT by Wyrd bið ful aræd (Gone Galt, 11/07/12----No king but Christ! Don't tread on me!)
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To: Olog-hai
"Don't listen to him, there is NO devil, its all in your imagination. Would you like some guacamole?


6 posted on 10/15/2013 10:09:04 PM PDT by HerrBlucher (Praise to the Lord the Almighty the King of Creation)
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To: Olog-hai

“Please, let’s not do business with the Devil”

Maybe the Pope can perform an exorcism at the White House and rid us of His Satanic Majesty and his she-devil.


7 posted on 10/15/2013 10:09:23 PM PDT by Stormdog (A rifle transforms one from subject to Citizen)
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To: AnalogReigns

Sounds like he needs a new translator.


8 posted on 10/15/2013 10:12:26 PM PDT by Ken H (First rule of gun safety - have a gun)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

Time will tell.

He certainly is in the camp of the poor, but the rich tend to be poor too.

Only Salvation matters


9 posted on 10/15/2013 10:20:09 PM PDT by mylife (Ted Cruz understands the law, and he does not fear the unlawful.)
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To: AnalogReigns
I suspect something got lost in the translation of what the Pope said. Besides that, since “In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth...” includes EVERYTHING that was created, including the angels who became fallen angels...then yes, the devil, like Adam and Eve, is on the first page.

Actually, on Day 1 God created time (in the beginning), space (heavens), matter (Earth), light and a method of measuring time (evening and morning were first day). Angels were likely created on day 2 (Psalm 104, Job 38:1-7), Adam on Day 6. Not the first page for Adam, unless it is #6 font on Family size Bible. The serpent (Satan) is not mentioned until Chapter 3.

10 posted on 10/15/2013 10:37:32 PM PDT by jimmyray
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To: Olog-hai

Come on you lot are none of you going to take the positive this guys says and praise those words. So many other churches have minimized the devil to a cartoon character (if he even exists to them). To those who have truly battled him it is no joke and nothing to be trivialized. The Pope also is right in this day that relativism is one of the devils favorite tools so “Don’t accept relativism; be vigilant. And always with Jesus!” Is a radical message to the world.

Mel


11 posted on 10/15/2013 11:59:38 PM PDT by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: Olog-hai
Genesis 1:2 is the first reference to the first rebel. That world/age that WAS (IIPeter 3) was destroyed. Second reference to the willy serpent is Genesis 2:9 wherein the first rebel is called symbolically the ‘tree of the knowledge of good and evil’. So Francis is correct, the devil, that decided he would do things better is described on the very first page.
12 posted on 10/16/2013 12:19:27 AM PDT by Just mythoughts (Jesus said Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: AnalogReigns

God created Lucifer, the angel of light. He became Satan after the fall - so Satan isn’t mentioned on the first page.


13 posted on 10/16/2013 12:30:55 AM PDT by GilesB
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To: Olog-hai

bookmark


14 posted on 10/16/2013 12:35:35 AM PDT by GOP Poet
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To: Just mythoughts

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

It is a great stretch to read “rebel” or satan into this passage - to the point of misreading, I believe.

What is the basis for interpreting the tree as satan? Your claim means God created satan and evil. Yet God looked upon His creation and saw that it was good - that could not have included evil...ergo satan was not fallen at that moment.


15 posted on 10/16/2013 12:40:26 AM PDT by GilesB
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To: GilesB
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

It is a great stretch to read “rebel” or satan into this passage - to the point of misreading, I believe. What is the basis for interpreting the tree as satan? Your claim means God created satan and evil. Yet God looked upon His creation and saw that it was good - that could not have included evil...ergo satan was not fallen at that moment.

Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; HE hath established it, He created it NOT in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the LORD;

and there is none else.

No stretch at all if one knows the Scripture. Isaiah 14:12- and Ezekiel 28:12- both describe the 'rebellion' and the 'overthrow/casting down of the first rebel. The rebellion took place before this flesh age. Just as Peter describes in IIPeter 3 and Jeremiah references in Jeremiah 4:22-28

God did not create Lucifer 'evil', but God did give Lucifer free will and Lucifer loved himself more than he loved the Creator. Lucifer was the first narcissist and sinner. Consider what the devil offered Christ called the temptation of Christ, not that Christ was tempted, but a lesson for what the tribulation of deception will be.

16 posted on 10/16/2013 12:52:12 AM PDT by Just mythoughts (Jesus said Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Olog-hai
The Pope has access to handwritten copies of the Bible: copies so old that they predate the advent of modern English - and also the modern use of the word 'page' by a wide margin.

This word 'page' that some are so exercised about.

page

"sheet of paper," 1580s, from Middle French page, from Old French pagene "page, text" (12c.), from Latin pagina "page, leaf of paper, strip of papyrus fastened to others"

In (for instance) my Burns & Oates copy of the Knox translation of the Bible: the Devil is mentioned on the first pagene, leaf of paper comprising the text.

Perhaps now the thread can get back to praising the Pope for correctly affirming the existence of the evil one?

17 posted on 10/16/2013 12:53:35 AM PDT by agere_contra (I once saw a movie where only the police and military had guns. It was called 'Schindler's List'.)
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To: GilesB
What is the basis for interpreting the tree as satan? Your claim means God created satan and evil. Yet God looked upon His creation and saw that it was good - that could not have included evil...ergo satan was not fallen at that moment.

Sorry I missed this question.

IF one reads Ezekiel 28:13 Thou has been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in the in the day that thou wast created

18 posted on 10/16/2013 1:03:30 AM PDT by Just mythoughts (Jesus said Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: AnalogReigns

I guess my catechism is out of date; the priests and nuns never taught me that God created anything evil.


19 posted on 10/16/2013 1:27:52 AM PDT by FredZarguna (The sequel, thoroughly pointless, derivative, and boring was like all James Cameron "films.")
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

> “Unfortunately, he’s more like Obama.”

Why would one think this? I haven’t seen anything, and I haven’t seen everything concerning this Pope, that would indicate he has a hidden agenda or is not obedient to God.


20 posted on 10/16/2013 3:06:07 AM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: Just mythoughts
Genesis 1:2 is the first reference to the first rebel. That world/age that WAS (IIPeter 3) was destroyed

Sorry, but 2 Pt. 3 is in obvious reference to the Flood of Noah:

"Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:" (2 Peter 3:6; cf. 1Pt. 3:20)

The pope might have said or meant the beginning of the Bible, while i know of no official RC teaching that describes your interpretation. Not that Rome is the standard for Truth,

21 posted on 10/16/2013 3:17:55 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Just mythoughts; GilesB
IF one reads Ezekiel 28:13 Thou has been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in the in the day that thou wast created

And THAT does not teach that the devil was the tree! Those things were prepared in the day the devil was made, and "day" here refers to the general time period of the 6 day creation:

"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens," (Genesis 2:4)

22 posted on 10/16/2013 3:25:19 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: jimmyray
This might be Satan's words inserted:

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

That appeals to man's vanity. The problem with vanity is envy soon follows, which is the motivation behind most of the evil in the world. Most evil can be traced back to the sin of pride, and the image of God idea is the ultimate pride. It is highly doubtful the image of God is anything resembling man.

23 posted on 10/16/2013 3:50:05 AM PDT by Reeses
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To: mylife
Only Salvation matters

Really? What about the Ten Commandments? Do they really mean anything? Why are they reduced to a group of suggestions by some Chri$tian philo$opher$?

Commandments and forgiveness are an incongruent mix. But people buy into being saved the same way that people buy into Obama phones. It's free because someone else paid for it!

I won't bet my soul on forgiveness. I think it's a big sales pitch, with a LOT of buyers.

24 posted on 10/16/2013 4:04:50 AM PDT by Loud Mime (Liberal: a hate-filled person who charges their grandchildren for today's party)
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To: melsec

Who might “us lot” be?


25 posted on 10/16/2013 5:34:03 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: daniel1212

Not necessarily the Noachian flood referenced there. God doesn’t create in vain, and since “was” in Genesis 1:2 should have been rendered “became” (as in Genesis 19:26), take note that there was no dry land after the world “became” this wasted state in Genesis 1:2.


26 posted on 10/16/2013 5:39:06 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: agere_contra
Perhaps now the thread can get back to praising the Pope for correctly affirming the existence of the evil one?

Thank you. I am more dejected every day at the lack of Christian charity being demonstrated on these threads.

27 posted on 10/16/2013 5:41:39 AM PDT by verga (Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis)
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To: GilesB
The Hebrew word translated “was” in Genesis 1:2 is hayatah, which ought to have been translated as “became”—it’s rendered “became” in Genesis 19:26, referencing Lot’s wife turning into a pillar of salt. Something happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2; God does not create things in a state of formlessness and void (from Hebrew tohu vabohu, indicating a state of waste and decay).
28 posted on 10/16/2013 5:41:43 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Reeses
in our image, in our likeness,

This is a typological reference to the Trinity

29 posted on 10/16/2013 5:44:28 AM PDT by verga (Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis)
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To: Just mythoughts

I’m sorry - I still don’t follow your reasoning. Just because God created Lucifer does not make the devil present at creation.


30 posted on 10/16/2013 7:05:09 AM PDT by GilesB
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To: Just mythoughts

Yes - Lucifer before the fall. This does not establish that satan was the tree of the knowledge good and evil.


31 posted on 10/16/2013 7:07:08 AM PDT by GilesB
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To: daniel1212

Remember, Lucifer was created by God - Lucifer chose to become the devil.


32 posted on 10/16/2013 7:08:31 AM PDT by GilesB
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To: FredZarguna

No, Satan was created by God good, but then chose to rebel. Still however the devil was created by God, as an angel...


33 posted on 10/16/2013 8:28:06 AM PDT by AnalogReigns (Real life is ANALOG!)
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To: Reeses
This might be Satan's words inserted:

No, you are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. (Matthew 22:29). God made man to rule over the earth. The first sin came when Eve was deceived into thinking "you will be like God" (Gen 3:5) Eve sinned because she did not know the command (singlar!) of God. She added to the command God had given, making it seem unreasonable, as God prohibitted only eating of the fruit, and she added touching as well. (Gen 2:17, Gen 3:3)

You are correct in saying that we are far removed from God, especially since he "...alone is immortal, and lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see." (1 Timothy 6:16). God is spirit (John 6:24) and invisible (1 Timothy 1:17).

However, we learn from the NT that Jesus is the image, the manifestation, the very essence of God in bodily form (Colossians 1:15, Phillipians 2:6-7). In fact, Jesus Christ created all things! (Colossians 1:16, John 1:3, 1:10). We also find that Jesus existed before creation (obviously, if the previous were true), and was planned to die sacrificially before the creation of the world! (1 Peter 1:20, Rev 13:8).

Since God walked in garden in the cool of the day (Genesis 3:8), he must have had bodily form. Thus, it is logical to conclude that God manifested himself in Jesus to interact with Adam. Since Jesus was the man-God, we are made in his image, not the other way around. Bodily, emotionally, sensorily, and with a free will.

34 posted on 10/16/2013 9:06:50 AM PDT by jimmyray
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To: daniel1212
And THAT does not teach that the devil was the tree! Those things were prepared in the day the devil was made, and "day" here refers to the general time period of the 6 day creation: "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens," (Genesis 2:4)

How many Garden of Edens were there? The Adam and his wife were removed from that Garden when they partied with the devil also called the serpent. The devil has played many roles and he has many names.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old *serpent* called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Satan has yet to be cast out from heaven onto this earth.

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, (John 3 lesson to Lazarus) He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; (So what were the 'children' before they partook of flesh and blood? When were all souls/spirit intellect created? Moses did not record when the creation of Lucifer took place along with the rest of the souls/spirit intellect. Moses only recorded the formation/creation of the flesh bodies for which the soul/spirit intellect were to inhabit during their flesh journey. Even after the formation/creation of the Adam's flesh body, he, the Adam was not alive until the breath of life, which means soul was breathed into his nostrils... And Moses did not say anything about the creation/formation of that breath of life, as it already existed.

So Lucifer who was placed Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Thou was perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in the.

Genesis 1:2 describes the overthrow/casting down of Lucifer from his position of covering the mercy seat long before Genesis 1:3. A supernatural war, and this earth still carries the evidence of that war.

And Paul knew about the Garden Party as Paul warns us about what will take place again... if the warning is not heeded... IICorinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ,

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtility, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Furthermore, God had Peter write down how God keeps time. IIPeter 3:8 But, beloved, be NOT ignorant of this one thing,

that ONE day is with the LORD as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Ignore what God plainly says all you wish, but, those days of creation... were not 24/7 hour days. God Himself says so, and there is all matter of evidence left upon this earth that demonstrates there was long ago a massive earth wide catastrophe on this earth.

35 posted on 10/16/2013 10:17:51 AM PDT by Just mythoughts (Jesus said Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: GilesB
I’m sorry - I still don’t follow your reasoning. Just because God created Lucifer does not make the devil present at creation.

Trees are used time and again as symbols through out the volume of the Book. The 'tree of the knowledge of good and evil' was allowed in the Garden of Eden. Right along side the 'tree of life' which is symbolic of Christ. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is the devil and until Christ banished him, the devil had free access to go to and fro on this earth. Never ever in a flesh body, and when Lucifer rebelled he was sentenced to death. Along with a numbered of angels/souls that followed the devil at the rebellion.

Up until the words 'tree of the knowledge of good and evil were recorded, everything except for Genesis 1:2 was described as 'good'. Now consider where did this knowledge of good and evil come from. God sure did not create the evil, but yet it existed. Planted throughout the rest of the WORD, even stated by Christ Himself explains who this 'tree of the knowledge of good and evil represents.

36 posted on 10/16/2013 10:44:08 AM PDT by Just mythoughts (Jesus said Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Just mythoughts
How many Garden of Edens were there?

With that, i shall leave respectfully you to your own thoughts, as that is what i see them as.

37 posted on 10/16/2013 12:36:13 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Olog-hai
the Devil exists and is so important that he “is on the first page of the Bible”

I know what he is saying, but the devil is not on the 'first page.' Kinda in the second chapter of Genesis. Unless he has one of those really big Pope Bibles where the first two chapters are on the same first page:)

38 posted on 10/16/2013 12:41:22 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: Just mythoughts

I’m not going to accept your explanation without further study. I have never, in all my 57 years, heard the tree of knowledge of good and evil described in this way.

God is knowledgeable about evil, even though He cannot stand it, nor did He create it.

But I see in Gen 2:9
“And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.”

My reading of this is that God created all of the trees.


39 posted on 10/16/2013 12:42:30 PM PDT by GilesB
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To: Olog-hai

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl0H1EUQ_38


40 posted on 10/16/2013 12:59:12 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: Just mythoughts

Nothing in II Peter 3 describes the rebellion.
Neither does Jeremiah 4:22-28

Your other two citations simply describe the fall of Lucifer - evidently you are arguing against something I haven’t said: I have stated in this thread that 1) Lucifer was an angel of light. 2) Lucifer was cast down 3) Lucifer as satan, the serpent, was in the Garden of Eden

What I contest are: 1) that the devil or satan is mentioned on the first page of the Bible. 2) That the tree of knowledge of good and evil was an allegory for the devil.

No scripture that you have cited support this view.
No commentaries I have read (about 10) support your view.

You seem to have created a private interpretation of this particular passage. I don’t find it particularly dangerous theologically, neither to I find it helpful or instructive.

I don’t argue the declaration of the pope that the devil is real, I just question his statement about the devil appearing on the first page of the bible. My reading has him appearing for the first time in Gen 3:1. You may draw some conclusions regarding a timeline and when Lucifer fell and when Adam was created and so forth. But to say that the devil is on page 1 is just false.


41 posted on 10/16/2013 1:26:24 PM PDT by GilesB
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To: melsec
"...have minimized the devil to a cartoon character."


42 posted on 10/16/2013 1:37:32 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: Olog-hai

Anyone who reads the post.


43 posted on 10/16/2013 6:50:05 PM PDT by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: melsec

That’s one very large brush to tar everyone with. Why presume such a thing is in the minds of anyone who reads the post, much less everyone? CNS News typically prints news that is favorable towards the pope, and this is not bad that the pope is speaking here, FWICS.


44 posted on 10/16/2013 7:15:01 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Things don’t translate as well in writing sometimes - it was meant to be like a friendly jibe like I would do if talking with a lot of friends. Not so much tarring everyone with the same brush. That being said there seems to be some here who are looking of the new Pope to fail or wanting to strain out a gnat and thereby miss the whole of the message.

Mel


45 posted on 10/16/2013 8:41:15 PM PDT by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: melsec

I see it all the time in the left-wing media. Every time they get a comment that sounds slightly to the left of Benedict, they jump up and yell “Yes, Francis is the anti-Benedict!” and act like the pontiff is now going further left than people like Archdruid Rowan Williams or Justin Welby.


46 posted on 10/16/2013 8:52:40 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Yes my friend and it is oh so easy to make or break a person if a few words are taken out of context or at random.

What I have had to take to heart from this Pope is that I should question my motivation on things and if Jesus is not first and foremost in my mind and the second thing to help others to know him then I had better refocus because I do not want to end up like the Pharisees who did all the right religious things but did not even recognize him when he came.

Blessings

Mel


47 posted on 10/16/2013 10:41:34 PM PDT by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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