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A Review of The Southern Cross - The Story of the Confederacy's First Battle Flag
The Washington Times ^ | 22 October 2013 | Richard G. Williams, Jr.

Posted on 10/26/2013 7:01:38 AM PDT by Davy Buck

Born as a symbol of rebellion, the Confederate battle flag retains much of that symbolism to this very day. What is even more intriguing is the fact that the very commissioning of the original Confederate battle flag was itself, an act of rebellion. This little-known part of the flag’s story is told in a fascinating new documentary written and produced by historian Kent Masterson Brown.

(Excerpt) Read more at communities.washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Education; History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: battleflag; confederacy; democratsecession; dixie; saintandrewscross; southern; whitesupremacists
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1 posted on 10/26/2013 7:01:38 AM PDT by Davy Buck
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To: Davy Buck

Too bad that flag doesn’t fly over the White Hut.


2 posted on 10/26/2013 7:09:51 AM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: IbJensen
I'm sad that so many are misinformed, seeing the Battle Flag as a symbol of racism. I was never intended that way.

In honor of my kin, and all who honorably fought under it:


3 posted on 10/26/2013 7:23:18 AM PDT by AnalogReigns (Real life is ANALOG!)
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To: AnalogReigns

That goes for me too!!!!


4 posted on 10/26/2013 7:32:27 AM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: AnalogReigns

As a decedent of Jefferson Davis and a man that loves this Republic, thank you.


5 posted on 10/26/2013 7:54:56 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: AnalogReigns

I understand your view and I know there were many who fought for the CSA who never owned slaves or even felt it was right to own them.
But you can’t escape that having the right to own slaves was one of the central issues. if the sountern states had not owned slaves do you think the war of Northern Agreesion would have been fought?

I think the right attitude might be that one should look at the times then and what was going on in the rest of the world. WE can admit that in today’s world We would not let slavery happen but we can’t change what was then.
Nothing should be taken away from our people who fought, in the largest majority of cases to defend OUR homeland.

I tell people who try to criticize me and tell me I must be a racist because I honor those who fought for us they are ignorant of the people who actually did fight for the South. I am proud to honor them
screw the haters


6 posted on 10/26/2013 7:57:31 AM PDT by RWGinger
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To: Davy Buck

I’m originally from Virginia and we grew up learning this. Probably don’t teach this anymore.


7 posted on 10/26/2013 7:57:34 AM PDT by gattaca ("Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal." Thomas Jefferson)
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To: RWGinger

Now we all be slaves.


8 posted on 10/26/2013 8:14:24 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: Davy Buck
As the Great-Grandson of Fourth Corporal A. P. Bradley of the 12th Mississippi Cavalry. I find it both amusing and irritating when people confuse the ‘Stars and Bars’ and the ‘Southern Cross’ or the ‘Starry Cross’ as some called it. I find it particularly irritating when it happens in places where folks should know better.
9 posted on 10/26/2013 8:23:56 AM PDT by Tupelo ( Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. An old Republican Tradition.)
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To: Davy Buck

I love flying that flag because it just twists the progressive twits who have invaded our state into knots like no other act or spoken word can do. The blacks who are the perpetuually outraged anyway just froth at the mouth. :-)


10 posted on 10/26/2013 8:24:14 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: onedoug
Now we all be slaves.

The 16th amendment repealed the 13th.

11 posted on 10/26/2013 8:24:51 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Everyone get online for Obamacare on 10/1. Overload the system and crash it hard!)
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To: RWGinger
You offered: “But you can’t escape that having the right to own slaves was one of the central issues. if the sountern (sic) states had not owned slaves do you think the war of Northern Agreesion (sic) would have been fought?”

You must not be aware of the fact that on the way to fight the first battle of the war, Bull Run (Manassas), that invading Union Brig. Gen. Irwin McDowell and his troops passed the slave pens in Washington, D. C., which held thousands of slaves.

Why did the Union Command not start there?

There are many records of this. Here is one.

http://books.google.com/books?id=VQBVqYGnyfIC&pg=PT21&lpg=PT21&dq=slave+pens+washington+dc&source=bl&ots=ICMHTGks2n&sig=sdjc4pWzH4DnlkF9KU2qyhB_j3k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-t1rUsySFcjKkAfTtYCwAg&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=slave%20pens%20washington%20dc&f=false

The issue of slavery did not cause the war to begin. So, one must wonder what was the real cause.

12 posted on 10/26/2013 8:29:29 AM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: Davy Buck

Actually I never thought of the South as being in rebellion, that being Northern propaganda to make them look childish and morally inferior. Update to the Old Miss PC debates about banishing the Colonel and changing the name, I would think a good Mississippian would be all for dropping the Rebels for the Bears. The only rebellion I can think of that the South conducted was the dethroning of the Reconstruction era governments of shame. FTR I am Copperhead from the People’s Republic of Illinois, home of the busy body Transcendentalists that have basically laid the groundwork for America’s destruction.


13 posted on 10/26/2013 8:31:52 AM PDT by junta ("Peace is a racket", testimony from crime boss Barrack Hussein Obama.)
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To: RWGinger

When you remember the Slaves you have to remember the Northern Ship owners who profited by their shipment, and the ways and means they used for the shipping.
You also have to remember who gathered them from Africa and then sold them.


14 posted on 10/26/2013 8:48:53 AM PDT by Venturer (Keep Obama and you aint seen nothing yet.)
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To: Davy Buck

As always in these discussions, the Confederate oppression of loyal Unionist Southern whites is forgotten. The Yankee chauvinists don’t like to hear of these people because Southern contributions against the Confederacy shatters the myth of exclusive Northern regional moral superiority and Confederate partisans do not like to dwell on them because their presence shatters the Lost Cause myth of a united South led by enlightened selfless statesmen.


15 posted on 10/26/2013 9:17:26 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Venturer

yes exactly you do
and WE do
but for most people and now it has become Dems and media anyone who wants to honor their own people who fought, not to own slaves but for their own homeland is a racists

and I doubt anything can change that
Plus sadly there are still many here who hate black and these people give us all a bad name


16 posted on 10/26/2013 9:48:57 AM PDT by RWGinger
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To: PeaRidge

actually yes the issue of owning slaves was one of the causes
and such an emotional cause it fanned many flames

You do point out the hypocrisy of many in the North. it does and still does exist
That doesn’t change that many more in the North and in the South knew owning slaves was wrong in every way possible.
If there hadn’t been nearly 4 million slaves primarily in the south there would not have been a Civil War


17 posted on 10/26/2013 9:53:39 AM PDT by RWGinger
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To: AnalogReigns

Couldn't let Honor pass by.
18 posted on 10/26/2013 10:00:06 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: AnalogReigns
I'm sad that so many are misinformed, seeing the Battle Flag as a symbol of racism. I was never intended that way.

Unfortunately, a lot of white counter-protesters during the Civil Rights Era chose to display that flag, giving it it's current ill-repute in some circles.


19 posted on 10/26/2013 10:04:39 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
Guess we need to ban the US Flag as well.


20 posted on 10/26/2013 10:06:45 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: PeaRidge

If only it wasn’t for all those pesky statements from southern leaders saying that they were rebelling over issues around slavery.


21 posted on 10/26/2013 10:09:16 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: dfwgator

Well, then I guess you have a project.


22 posted on 10/26/2013 10:11:34 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: RWGinger

Blacks have not helped themselves in the last 5 years.

They vote overwhelmingly to place a black racist in the office of the White House and they accept every bad move he makes because of his color. If Obama had been white he would have been impeached in his first term.

Many blame racism for the critical comments and building annoyance at his poor performance when it is in truth that poor performance and wrong headed Marxism that is the problem.


23 posted on 10/26/2013 10:27:50 AM PDT by Venturer (Keep Obama and you aint seen nothing yet.)
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To: Venturer

yes This
‘Many blame racism for the critical comments and building annoyance at his poor performance when it is in truth that poor performance and wrong headed Marxism that is the problem.”

that does not change the perception the media is more than happy to keep reporting that many GOp and especially southern GOP are racists.

Sadly at a Thank You RTed Cruz rally I heard many men braging that there were no ‘ niggers’ in attendance and that is how it should be.
This was the Dallas area
How could these white men be so stupid and full of hate for an entire people?


24 posted on 10/26/2013 10:51:14 AM PDT by RWGinger
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To: RWGinger

Easy to be full of hate, Stupid to put it out in public.

The violence of the Knock out game and the rapes of white women, murder, and the stupidity of the Trayvon Martin case and the OJ case as we watch blacks vote 95% for Obama simply because he is black and see United Negro college fund and Congressional Black Caucus’s, Black Miss America’s and Blacks killing each other by the dozens in ghetto’s, we have to watch jobs we are qualified for go to unqualified people,and anything white is automatically racist , it is easy to understand the hate, the stupidity is another thing Especially at a rally where we are supporting a Hispanic candidate.


25 posted on 10/26/2013 12:06:10 PM PDT by Venturer (Keep Obama and you aint seen nothing yet.)
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To: Davy Buck

Reading a great book on Robert E Lee, very eye opening for sure.


26 posted on 10/26/2013 12:09:00 PM PDT by The Mayor (Honesty means never having to look over your shoulder.)
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To: RWGinger

The issue of slavery did not start the war. The war began on April 17, 1861 in the President’s office. Both he and the US Congress said that the war did not begin over slavery.


27 posted on 10/26/2013 12:31:14 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep

Words did not start the war. It was Lincoln’s call for the blockade.


28 posted on 10/26/2013 12:33:39 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: RWGinger
You offered: “If there hadn’t been nearly 4 million slaves primarily in the south there would not have been a Civil War.”

You forget that there were 20 times that number in the Caribbean, Central, and South America, as well as in Britain and France. No civil wars there.

Presence of slaves did not cause the war.

29 posted on 10/26/2013 12:38:01 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: PeaRidge

You noted
‘You forget that there were 20 times that number in the Caribbean, Central, and South America, as well as in Britain and France. No civil wars there.”

IF there had been no slaves would there have been a civil war?


30 posted on 10/26/2013 2:10:01 PM PDT by RWGinger
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To: PeaRidge

Actually Lincoln imposed the blockade AFTER the Confederates fired on Ft Sumter


31 posted on 10/26/2013 2:13:50 PM PDT by RWGinger
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To: PeaRidge

Yeah, your opinion is noted and dismissed.


32 posted on 10/26/2013 2:17:48 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: RWGinger
Oh, now you've done it. Get ready to hear how the ships that arrived at Charleston during the bombardment and refused to sail into the shellfire were being blockaded by the evil Lincoln.

I've been through this with Pea before.

33 posted on 10/26/2013 2:19:12 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep

:)
Thanks for the warning.
I am a product of the South and I honor those who fought for their homes>, most of whom never owned a slave.
I also understand that if slavery had not existed there would not have been a civil war
plain and simple


34 posted on 10/26/2013 2:22:01 PM PDT by RWGinger
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To: Venturer

When you remember who bought them off those ships. No buyers, no sellers.


35 posted on 10/26/2013 4:28:05 PM PDT by X Fretensis
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To: PeaRidge

Slaves in DC was not a problem for the administration. General McDowell’s assigned objective was the Confederate army assembling near Manassas junction. Slavery was legal in the District of Columbia. Just as it was in Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland and Delaware.


36 posted on 10/26/2013 4:37:35 PM PDT by X Fretensis
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To: PeaRidge

actually the war started April 12 1861. This is the date that the Confederate Government forces fired on A United States Government installation.


37 posted on 10/26/2013 4:45:15 PM PDT by X Fretensis
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To: RWGinger

That because the European countries outlawed slaver in the home country and their colonies by act of their respective governments. In this country, efforts to end slavery by government, ended with fort Sumter being fired on by those that wanted to keep slavery.


38 posted on 10/26/2013 4:57:12 PM PDT by X Fretensis
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To: X Fretensis

No product, no sales.


39 posted on 10/26/2013 7:36:05 PM PDT by Venturer (Keep Obama and you aint seen nothing yet.)
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To: RWGinger

“if the sountern states had not owned slaves “

The North had slaves at the time as well. They also had laws that relegated freed blacks to that of third class citizen that could not vote or even immigrate. In fact, Lincoln sought to ensure freed blacks could not enter Illinois.


40 posted on 10/27/2013 1:17:51 AM PDT by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off. -786 +969)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep

“If only it wasn’t for all those pesky statements from southern leaders saying that they were rebelling over issues around slavery.”

Why would they do that since Lincoln’s own inaugural address stated he did not seek to change slavery in the South or North?


41 posted on 10/27/2013 1:19:28 AM PDT by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off. -786 +969)
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To: X Fretensis

“actually the war started April 12 1861. This is the date that the Confederate Government forces fired on A United States Government installation.”

Public school education, I see. The war started before that.


42 posted on 10/27/2013 1:20:49 AM PDT by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off. -786 +969)
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To: RWGinger

I pointed out to you that the presence of slaves does not naturally result in war, which seemed to be your contention.


43 posted on 10/27/2013 10:18:56 AM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: CodeToad
Why would they do that since Lincoln’s own inaugural address stated he did not seek to change slavery in the South or North?

I'll assume you're really dumb and not just playing at it.

While Lincoln made it clear that he had no intentions of interfering with slavery in the states where it existed, a fundamental part of his campaign (and indeed, the founding of the Republican Party) was stopping the spread of slavery into the territories. The south saw this as enough of a threat to their economic well-being to rebel.

44 posted on 10/27/2013 10:20:54 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: CodeToad
The war started before that.

Go on.

45 posted on 10/27/2013 10:21:31 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: RWGinger

Lincoln did do that.

However it was his blockade decree which was the first act of war and its beginning.


46 posted on 10/27/2013 10:21:35 AM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep

It is evident that it is you dealing in opinion.


47 posted on 10/27/2013 10:23:51 AM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: X Fretensis

That is correct. The invasion of Virginia was not to free any slaves, and thus the initiation of hostilities was not to free slaves.


48 posted on 10/27/2013 10:27:00 AM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: X Fretensis

You offered: “actually the war started April 12 1861. This is the date that the Confederate Government forces fired on A United States Government installation.”

Your school history book may have said that, but the US Government set the beginning date as the day Lincoln decreed the blockade.


49 posted on 10/27/2013 10:31:04 AM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: PeaRidge
Your school history book may have said that, but the US Government set the beginning date as the day Lincoln decreed the blockade

Which is sort of like saying that World War 2 didn't start until December 8, 1941, when FDR signed the declaration of war passed by Congress and not on December 7, when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.

50 posted on 10/27/2013 11:55:56 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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