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Study Reveals More Clues to Origins of Domesticated Dog
Popular Archaeology ^ | Thursday, November 14, 2013 | Science

Posted on 11/17/2013 4:22:00 PM PST by SunkenCiv

...based on a recently completed study, Olaf Thalmann of the University of Turku, Finland, and colleagues are suggesting that Palaeolithic hunter-gatherers in Europe as much as 32,000 years ago may have played a significant role in the process. To come to this conclusion, Thalmann and his team compared mitochondrial DNA from a broad range of modern-day dog and wolf breeds to mitochondrial DNA from canine fossils dated to 19,000-32,000 years ago, as well as fossils from modern canines. Their analysis showed that modern dogs’ genetic sequences most closely matched those of either ancient European canines, including wolves, or modern European dogs, but did not closely match DNA from canines outside of Europe. According to the researchers, this suggests a European origin, and, as only hunter-gatherer populations were present during this period, a domestication that predates the advent of agriculture.

It has been previously thought that fields and crops attracted wolves to villages, leading to interactions with humans that eventually resulted in a cooperative or symbiotic relationship. Human intervention in canine evolution thus produced the variety of modern dog breeds commonly seen today in homes and dog parks throughout the world. But this study, along with clues from other research and excavations, pushes the origins back further to the Palaeolithic Age, when wild wolves may have been drawn to hunter-gatherers, the researchers suggest, because they could feed on carcasses the hunters left behind.

(Excerpt) Read more at popular-archaeology.com ...


TOPICS: Astronomy; Pets/Animals; Science
KEYWORDS: agriculture; animalhusbandry; catastrophism; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble
A lateral view of a Palaeolithic dog from the Goyet cave (Belgium), calibrated age of 36,000 years Before the Present. Thalmann et al. believe the species represented by this fossil to be an ancient sister-group to all modern dogs and wolves, rather than a direct ancestor. [Image courtesy of Royal Belgian Institute of Natural Sciences]

A lateral view of a Palaeolithic dog from the Goyet cave (Belgium), calibrated age of 36,000 years Before the Present. Thalmann et al. believe the species represented by this fossil to be an ancient sister-group to all modern dogs and wolves, rather than a direct ancestor. [Image courtesy of Royal Belgian Institute of Natural Sciences]

1 posted on 11/17/2013 4:22:00 PM PST by SunkenCiv
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

2 posted on 11/17/2013 4:22:57 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: SunkenCiv

If I had been around, canines would not have been domesticated....way to needy.
;-)
This is very interesting.


3 posted on 11/17/2013 4:24:52 PM PST by svcw (Not 'hope and change' but 'dopes in chains')
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To: svcw

They came in handy as a last resort food source, as well.


4 posted on 11/17/2013 4:26:25 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: SunkenCiv

They give good cuddle on a cold Paleolithic night, too!


5 posted on 11/17/2013 4:28:31 PM PST by ottbmare (the OTTB mare, now a proud Marine Mom)
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To: SunkenCiv
It has been previously thought that fields and crops attracted wolves to villages, leading to interactions with humans that eventually resulted in a cooperative or symbiotic relationship.

This would apply more to cats, who would've been attracted by the rodents eating the grain.

6 posted on 11/17/2013 4:32:56 PM PST by MUDDOG
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To: SunkenCiv; Joe 6-pack

Doggie Ping?


7 posted on 11/17/2013 4:34:38 PM PST by moose07 (the truth will out ,one day. This is not the post you are looking for ....move along now....)
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To: SunkenCiv

A Paleolithic Canis lupus ate my cave-baby


8 posted on 11/17/2013 4:39:24 PM PST by digger48
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To: SunkenCiv
I have a Yorkie. Yorkies were bred in Yorkshire, England, to be very small dogs to catch rats in their small tunnels so digging is in her DNA. I got her when she was five weeks old. When she was not much older, she started digging holes in a sheet of sheetrock wall just inside the front door. I tried everything to stop her from doing that, even the bitter spray to keep dogs away from what was sprayed, but I couldn't watch her every single minute of the day and she managed to dig two holes completely through it. She is very smart. I watched her one day and she licked the spot to soften up the sheetrock, then dug like a drill hammer getting through it. She digs so fast, her paws are a blur when she digs. She is so small, but can dig like an electric drill.

I picked out a sheet of material like you see in showers that is slick and strong. Had a workman install that wall and she never approached that wall again. She knew she couldn't get through it. I gave her cardboard boxes to dig in the sides of the boxes and she put holes in those boxes.

She never found a mouse or a rat in the holes she dug but I could have told her she wouldn't find any.

9 posted on 11/17/2013 4:39:47 PM PST by Marcella ((Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.))
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To: SunkenCiv

When did man invent bacon? Connect the dots! ;^)


10 posted on 11/17/2013 4:45:43 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: AnAmericanMother; Titan Magroyne; Badeye; SandRat; arbooz; potlatch; afraidfortherepublic; ...
WOOOF!

Computer Hope

The Doggie Ping list is for FReepers who would like to be notified of threads relating to all things canid. If you would like to join the Doggie Ping Pack (or be unleashed from it), FReemail me.

11 posted on 11/17/2013 4:52:19 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Qui me amat, amat et canem meum.)
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To: SunkenCiv

I watch that Westminster Kennel Club show every year. I keep hoping that a Weiner dog will leap into the stands and grab someone by the throat. I know....not much chance of that happening. More likely Chihuahuas.


12 posted on 11/17/2013 5:11:35 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: SunkenCiv

“Before the Present”

Haven’t seen that one before. I thought the current New Age circumlocution to avoid “BC” and “AD” was “BCE” and “CE”. Is “Before the Present” a new and improved way to be hip?

(Interesting thread, BTW, SunkenCiv, and not intending to take the domestication history of canines down a side alley.)


13 posted on 11/17/2013 5:13:55 PM PST by SharpRightTurn
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To: blueunicorn6

I have the weirdest Chihuahua in the world. Not disposed to be like a Chihuahua at all.

Very sweet, loves people, not overly yippy, and very smart and easy to train. Instead of being suspicious of strangers, if they come in and sit down, she insists on jumping up in their laps and “getting to know them”.

Don’t get me wrong; she can be a pistol, especially when she gets too rambunctious with the cat, but that’s the exception, not the rule.

Plus, she’s twice the size of either of her parents. She weighs almost 20 lbs and she’s not fat at all.


14 posted on 11/17/2013 5:29:05 PM PST by FLAMING DEATH (I'm not racist - I hate Biden too!)
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To: SunkenCiv

So I would guess we have two competing hypotheses:

A. Farming people domesticated wolf/dogs to help protect their fields.

B. Hunter/gatherers domesticate wolf/dogs to help them find game or other food.

The new evidence favors B for now.


15 posted on 11/17/2013 5:31:03 PM PST by JLS
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To: FLAMING DEATH

A 20 pound Chihuahua!!! And it’s all muscle!!! My word!!! Are you sure it’s not a Shetland Pony?


16 posted on 11/17/2013 5:41:43 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: SunkenCiv

without directly saying it, the report suggests (a) domestication of canines occurred earlier in Europe than elsewhere and (b) possibly very very much earlier, and (c) which MAY explain the cultural roots in some Asian societies where eating canines STILL has some adherents today (and was even more common in the past we modern humans know about)


17 posted on 11/17/2013 5:56:11 PM PST by Wuli
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18 posted on 11/17/2013 10:40:35 PM PST by KneelBeforeZod (I have five dollars for each of you)
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To: Wuli
...explain the cultural roots in some Asian societies where eating canines STILL has some adherents today (and was even more common in the past we modern humans know about)

And even some adherents in today's White House.

19 posted on 11/18/2013 4:30:25 AM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: afraidfortherepublic

I would love to see our pansie president try to eat my German Shepard.


20 posted on 11/18/2013 4:36:43 AM PST by Vermont Lt ( 1-800-318-2596, Mr President.)
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To: Vermont Lt

:)


21 posted on 11/18/2013 4:41:58 AM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Vermont Lt

He’s far more likely to “present” to your German Shepard (assuming the dog is male)


22 posted on 11/18/2013 5:44:13 AM PST by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: JLS
Except that hypothesis A makes no sense for a number of reasons and would have occurred tens of thousands of years (using standard archaeological timelines) after the known origin of canine domestication.

I know that this is the first time Ive heard it and I don't think anyone seriously believes it. I suspect a confused writer.

23 posted on 11/18/2013 10:13:42 AM PST by gnarledmaw (Obama: Evincing a Design since 2009)
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To: SunkenCiv
The Dixie Dingo
24 posted on 11/18/2013 1:44:17 PM PST by blam
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To: John O

She is a beautiful bitch. So the only interest he might have would be culinary.


25 posted on 11/18/2013 2:18:48 PM PST by Vermont Lt ( 1-800-318-2596, Mr President.)
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To: Vermont Lt
I would love to see our pansie president try to eat my German Shepard.

I would really, really love to see your German Shepard try to eat him!

26 posted on 11/19/2013 11:11:01 AM PST by Max in Utah (A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within.)
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To: SharpRightTurn

No harm done. :’)

The BP is related to radiocarbon dating. To make it a little confusing, the “present” is actually 1950, which is the baseline because that’s when RC dating became operational. The original limit wasn’t as large as it is now, but when I was a kid, for example, it was about 45,000 years; refinement of the technique and improvements in sensitivity of the technology pushed that up to 50,000 years, and in the best samples, 60,000 years.

Beyond that, other methods have to be used. And RC dating only works on the organic remains (including ash, bone, hair, mummy bandages, wicker baskets, wooden implements, etc).


27 posted on 11/19/2013 5:58:39 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: MUDDOG

I would think that the wolf was domesticated when the mother was killed trying to eat someone’s livestock or children; the pups would be much easier marks for domestication, and are of course adorable (even coyote pups are adorable, but coyotes not so much ;’). That’s the main reason I don’t think there’s much to this result — unless the wolf cubs adopted the hunters, of course. A small group of (quasi-) domesticated wolves would identify with its group of humans, and actually enhance territorial boundaries of a village or other group.

The estimated age of settled agriculture has moved back from about 5500 years (19th c and before) to the 10K figure still often thrown around, but the earliest (uncalibrated, ergo, too low) radiocarbon date for a domesticated barley sample found (I think) in SE Anatolia is 14,000 years BP. That’s just a sample which happens to have survived, it’s easy to imagine that survival of a small sample of a food crop (already perishable) must be a rare event, and that it won’t be surprising when someone finds proxy data of agricultural activity that is much earlier than this.

My view is, we already have it in the form of post holes of a series of structures (a village) dating to about 800,000 years ago, discovered in China. I wouldn’t argue against the raw possibility that hunter-gatherer methods couldn’t support a large population, I’d merely point out that no one has ever shown the least evidence that it ever has.

The precolonial population of North America has to be estimated from the remains of tribal settlements (since they were illiterate apparently, and didn’t take census data and so on), but before European settlement (not counting the probable though transient Viking presence, and more controversially Celts about 1000 years earlier) and the inadvertent introduction of new diseases, the population west of the Mississippi — almost entirely agrarian, in addition to supplemental hunting — was over 40 million; the population of what is now Mexico was over 50 million and almost entirely agrarian (complete with pretty ambitious and varied methods of irrigation, all the way down into the Panamanian isthmus). Corn (maize) domestication appears to have spread outward from Mexico, and its use as food is at least 8700 years old.


28 posted on 11/19/2013 6:30:38 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: digger48

;’)


29 posted on 11/19/2013 6:37:17 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: Marcella

If I were to have a dog, I’d probably want some big galoot (I live in the country), but I’ve sometimes found little dogs somewhat beguiling, such as the all-black dachshunds I’ve seen , or the dachshund-chihuahua crosses (they don’t have a stable hybrid outcome last I knew, so they are all over the map for size and other characteristics, going from small enough for the vest pocket to a kind of Jack Russell-plus size).


30 posted on 11/19/2013 6:39:59 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: ottbmare

They would. I prefer cats, but the warm cuddle is generally at their convenience, and for their benefit. As the saying goes, dogs have owners, cats have staff.


31 posted on 11/19/2013 6:41:08 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: TigersEye

Mmmmm, bacon!


32 posted on 11/19/2013 6:41:47 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: Wuli; JLS; svcw; blam; gnarledmaw

Eating dog was also practiced among precolumbian tribes, as a convenient meat supplement, since dogs were kept around to keep the coyotes and probably where applicable the wolves away, particularly in the night. They also served as a warning system for human intruders, which is still a major entry on the dog job description. :’)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3092470/posts?page=28#28

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/25/science/25creature.html?_r=0


33 posted on 11/19/2013 6:42:37 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: SunkenCiv

You would do very well with a Pitbull, ‘Civ. Perfect for keeping leftists at arm’s length- or just as happy to remove it if they violate your space. Plus he could sniff out and dig up ancient ruins to present you for your amusement.


34 posted on 11/19/2013 6:48:24 PM PST by Dysart (Obamacare: "We are losing money on every subscriber-- but we will make it up in volume!")
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To: FLAMING DEATH

I have a friend who has a long haired Chihuahua and it weighs 3 1/2 pounds. It is possibly the smalled grown dog I have ever seen and the cutest. It is very calm and sleepy looking, precious dog!


35 posted on 11/19/2013 6:57:46 PM PST by Ditter
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To: SunkenCiv
(a village) dating to about 800,000 years ago

That does go back a ways.

36 posted on 11/20/2013 8:59:56 AM PST by MUDDOG
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To: SunkenCiv
"dachshund-Chihuahua"

A fuzzy miniature crocodile with an anger management disorder? I doubt the coyotes or bears would put up with that for very long.

I live far out beyond the stalks of The Frozen Tundra on my own little slice of heaven. As an adult Ive always had St Bernards (including a St Dane) but now have a Newfoundland (well, hes 3/4 newfoundland and 1/4 stupid dog). The most important part of finding a "good" dog is finding the breed with a personality to match your own. For example, Im in sync with the giant sized European branch of the Mollosers which most people dislike while I cant stand most of the more common spastic breeds most Americans have like spaniels and labs.

I just noticed you live up here not too far from me somewhere. Out of curiosity, are you a Yooper or a Troll?

37 posted on 11/21/2013 12:23:57 PM PST by gnarledmaw (Obama: Evincing a Design since 2009)
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To: gnarledmaw

Heh, I’m south of The Bridge.


38 posted on 11/22/2013 2:46:14 AM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: MUDDOG

and whoops, that should have been “east of the Mississippi”.


39 posted on 11/22/2013 2:55:40 AM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: SunkenCiv

OK, Civ, all this makes a lot of sense. But let’s just say I wouldn’t have wanted to be among the first people to pet my new friend, Mr. Wolf.


40 posted on 11/22/2013 3:19:18 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker

That idea first occurred to Fred’s brother, “Lefty” Flintstone.


41 posted on 11/22/2013 3:53:55 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: SunkenCiv

LOL!


42 posted on 11/22/2013 4:06:13 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: digger48

LOL!


43 posted on 11/22/2013 4:38:18 PM PST by JouleZ (You are the company you keep.)
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