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How to Take Out 1,500 Tanks in Two Years
War is Boring ^ | November 18, 2013 | David Axe

Posted on 11/18/2013 7:18:23 AM PST by C19fan

In 24 months of brutal combat, Syrian opposition fighters have eliminated a fifth of Pres. Bashar Al Assad’s Russian-made tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, according to estimates.

That’s no fewer than 1,500 T-55, T-62 and T-72 tanks plus BMP fighting vehicles exploded, burned, disabled or seized by rebels—with potentially thousands of crewmen also being killed, injured or captured.

The destruction of so many of the government’s heavy vehicles by relatively lightly armed rebels is, for the regime, a painful reminder of the vulnerability of even the most thickly armored tanks in close urban fighting—and especially when the vehicles aren’t protected by nearby infantry.

(Excerpt) Read more at medium.com ...


TOPICS: Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: syria; war
I noticed the lack of infantry support when Assad's tanks take a drive in urban areas. In some videos, a rebel with a RPG or ATGM will take out the tank from a rooftop or apartment.
1 posted on 11/18/2013 7:18:23 AM PST by C19fan
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To: C19fan

I’m sure these muzzie clowns don’t have repair facilities like the US.

Reading about Patton’s WW2 team, they were like race car pit crews when it came to tank repair.


2 posted on 11/18/2013 7:22:12 AM PST by nascarnation (Wish everyone you see a "Gay Kwanzaa")
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To: C19fan

What is it, like ten support members for every front line soldier?

All the fancy hardware in the world can not save you if you do not have the supplies and support to keep them on the front line.


3 posted on 11/18/2013 7:35:29 AM PST by CIB-173RDABN (I do not doubt that our climate changes. I only doubt that anything man does has any effect.)
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To: CIB-173RDABN

MOUT’s a b!tch if you’re in a tank.


4 posted on 11/18/2013 7:39:57 AM PST by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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To: C19fan

We should be taking notes.


5 posted on 11/18/2013 7:41:27 AM PST by maine yankee (I got my Governor at 'Marden's')
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To: maine yankee
We should be taking notes.

AGREE!! However, all of the notes in the world won't do you any good unless you have access to something like this


6 posted on 11/18/2013 7:46:07 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: maine yankee
"We should be taking notes."

Shhhhh...

7 posted on 11/18/2013 7:46:07 AM PST by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: maine yankee

DHS take note. Those MWRAPs will fail for a whole bunch of reasons and repairability may not be an option.


8 posted on 11/18/2013 7:46:35 AM PST by bioqubit
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To: from occupied ga

Give me the vintage LAWs.


9 posted on 11/18/2013 7:50:52 AM PST by wally_bert (There are no winners in a game of losers. I'm Tommy Joyce, welcome to the Oriental Lounge.)
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To: from occupied ga

the thing to really keep in mind is that there is a huge number of ex military who know the weaknesses of these vehicles inside and out. I’ll bet there is a long list of benign tricks which will render MWRAPs and anything else useless.


10 posted on 11/18/2013 7:52:18 AM PST by bioqubit
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To: maine yankee

I am sure the administration is learning all it can.


11 posted on 11/18/2013 7:53:57 AM PST by huldah1776
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To: from occupied ga

Of course many RPG hits that will take out a T-62 will not severely damage an M-1. An RPG-7 can immobilize or even cause a catastrophic kill on an Abrams but it takes more than a typical side-armor hit.


12 posted on 11/18/2013 8:07:16 AM PST by Monterrosa-24 (...even more American than a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: from occupied ga
Used to be one could buy these out of Shot Gun News, with home delivery.


13 posted on 11/18/2013 8:09:30 AM PST by kitchen (Even the walls have ears.)
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To: C19fan

Another excellent example of letting Allah sort them out when Islamists fight each other. Do disturb them and let their violent behaviors/nature take its course.

“In 24 months of brutal combat, Syrian opposition fighters have eliminated a fifth of Pres. Bashar Al Assad’s Russian-made tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, according to estimates.

That’s no fewer than 1,500 T-55, T-62 and T-72 tanks plus BMP fighting vehicles exploded, burned, disabled or seized by rebels—with potentially thousands of crewmen also being killed, injured or captured.

The destruction of so many of the government’s heavy vehicles by relatively lightly armed rebels is, for the regime, a painful reminder of the vulnerability of even the most thickly armored tanks in close urban fighting—and especially when the vehicles aren’t protected by nearby infantry.”


14 posted on 11/18/2013 8:12:29 AM PST by Grampa Dave (You can keep your doctor, health plan, and this is only a cold sore.)
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To: C19fan

This is what initially gave Germany a leg up in WW2. They were defeated and disarmed in WW1 so they were forced to get all new stuff. As a result, they had the most modern military in the world and it took the Allies several years to get their new stuff out in the field.


15 posted on 11/18/2013 8:56:51 AM PST by SamAdams76
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To: kitchen

I think MRAPs are armored to defeat 14.5mm. In any case it’s extremely difficult to obtain that ammo. Anzio Iron Works makes a 20mm rifle (in excess of $10,000) and I suppose you could hand load home made FSDS tungsten carbide ammo for it. Might work.


16 posted on 11/18/2013 9:00:44 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: wally_bert
Give me the vintage LAWs.

Can't really get those legitimately either.

17 posted on 11/18/2013 9:01:45 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: kitchen

There is a reason those were not carried onto Omaha beach, and it’s not about being too heavy to wade with.


18 posted on 11/18/2013 9:04:15 AM PST by ExGeeEye (The enemy's gate is down...and to the left.)
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To: Monterrosa-24
Of course many RPG hits that will take out a T-62 will not severely damage an M-1

I'm more concerned about MRAPS and APCs in use by police. A MRAP is NOT a battlefield vehicle. Wouldn't last ten minutes with modern anti-armor ordinance. These things that the govt is bestowing on police forces throughout the the land of the formerly free are designed for supressing a civilian population armed with small arms.

19 posted on 11/18/2013 9:04:58 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: bioqubit
the thing to really keep in mind is that there is a huge number of ex military who know the weaknesses of these vehicles inside and out

You're presupposing that ex-military would be predisposed to taking them out. Not all true - look at McCain, Powell, and Kerry as fine examples of ex - military

20 posted on 11/18/2013 9:14:24 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: from occupied ga

Right-O and your key point as I understand it is that the populace is equiped with rifles and other small arms but nothing larger so that the DHS vehicles would have free reign.

I wonder what percentage of such police-type APC vehicles are vulnerable to .50 Barretts?...or even .338 Lapua?


21 posted on 11/18/2013 9:39:33 AM PST by Monterrosa-24 (...even more American than a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: C19fan

Regarding the lack of combined arms teams by Syrians: This tells you something about their infantry. By comparison, look at how we deployed a combined arms team in the Second Battle of Fallujjah.


22 posted on 11/18/2013 9:40:28 AM PST by Redmen4ever
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To: C19fan

How many were taken out by IED`s?


23 posted on 11/18/2013 9:42:12 AM PST by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: CIB-173RDABN
All the fancy hardware in the world can not save you if you do not have the supplies and support to keep them on the front line.

Don't forget about General Mud and General Winter. Those two can wreak havoc on mech units.

24 posted on 11/18/2013 9:54:40 AM PST by Night Hides Not (The Tea Party was the earthquake, and Chick Fil A the tsunami...100's of aftershocks to come.)
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To: Monterrosa-24
as I understand it is that the populace is equiped with rifles and other small arms but nothing larger so that the DHS vehicles would have free reign.

Yes. Exactly. M113's supposedly are vulnerable to .50 side and back. I also read somplace that MRAPS are designed to resist 14.5mm. Since this has about twice the energy of a .50 cal I would also suspect that they could defeat a .50 cal.

25 posted on 11/18/2013 10:21:00 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: bioqubit
DHS take note. Those MWRAPs will fail for a whole bunch of reasons and repairability may not be an option.

Set traps, set fire, cook contents. Repeat as necessary.

26 posted on 11/18/2013 11:02:01 AM PST by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed & water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: from occupied ga
A MRAP is NOT a battlefield vehicle. Wouldn't last ten minutes with modern anti-armor ordinance. These things that the govt is bestowing on police forces throughout the the land of the formerly free are designed for supressing a civilian population armed with small arms.

We won't have anti-armor ordinance anyway. Trap 'em, burn 'em.

27 posted on 11/18/2013 11:05:03 AM PST by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed & water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: JimRed
We won't have anti-armor ordinance anyway.

Yes - that is the point I'm making. We DON'T have that ability due to decades of gun control.

Trap 'em, burn 'em.

A lot harder than popping up and firing an RPG.

28 posted on 11/18/2013 11:14:32 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: C19fan

I know the Russians are supplying Assad with weapons and training but I wonder how much they are helping on the repair end of things. I assume the warranty on a T-55 expired back when everything I knew about tanks came from playing Combat on my my Atari 2600.


29 posted on 11/18/2013 11:32:15 AM PST by Pan_Yan (Who told you that you were naked? Genesis 3:11)
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To: nascarnation

“Reading about Patton’s WW2 team, they were like race car pit crews when it came to tank repair.”

Recalled from an uncle/tank commander’s tale telling: “Generally, a tank battle would be three or four tanks on each side, would range over three or four square miles, and would last three or four days. We’d hide from their bigger guns, only coming out to irritate them with our little guns. After a few days their tanks would break down or run out of fuel. They’d light them on fire and walk home. When our tanks broke down, they’d be fixed on the spot.”


30 posted on 11/18/2013 11:33:42 AM PST by Born to Conserve
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To: Born to Conserve

I’m reading a neat book by Brig Gen Al Irzyk (”He Rode Up Front for Patton”)

His tank was hit in the turret from behind by an AP round in the Bastogne battle. The round cracked the structure but failed to penetrate, and the maintenance crew welded it up overnight, and he was back in it the next day. Impressive.


31 posted on 11/18/2013 11:48:50 AM PST by nascarnation (Wish everyone you see a "Gay Kwanzaa")
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To: JimRed

We won’t have anti-armor ordinance anyway. Trap ‘em, burn ‘em.
************************************
heavy equipment would be nice , maybe wheeled loaders... and thermite , lots of thermite.


32 posted on 11/18/2013 2:43:44 PM PST by Neidermeyer (I used to be disgusted , now I try to be amused.)
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To: Grampa Dave

Assad is not an Islamist. He protects the Christians in Syria as his father did as well. This is ancient Christianity.


33 posted on 11/18/2013 11:35:09 PM PST by Cronos (Obama’s dislike of Assad is not based on Assad’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...

sez 1500 tanks is (was) one fifth of Syria’s force, or 7500 tanks total. The figure is nonsense. If however the various other armored vehicles (and heavy military vehicles of other kinds) are added in, they might add up to 7500.

Urban renewal in the third world includes demolishing narrow streets and putting the new buildings well away from where tanks might be used — tanks could otherwise be buried by blowing out a building foundation, leaving the tankers immobilized and trapped.

http://www.janes.com/article/26112/chemical-weapons-used-against-civilians-in-syria


34 posted on 11/23/2013 10:31:34 AM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: Cronos

Must have come as a blow:

http://blogs.channel4.com/lindsey-hilsum-on-international-affairs/damascus-funeral-major-general-joseph-fadlallah-dakhlallah/3110

The Syrian government has said little about the attack in which he lost his life. An official told us only 22 were killed when rebels tunneled under the military vehicle maintenance centre at Harasta last Sunday. But rebel video posted online shows such a huge blast it seems impossible that so few should have died.


35 posted on 11/23/2013 1:14:09 PM PST by Fred Nerks
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