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Fabled King Arthur ‘was a Scottish warlord’
The Scotsman ^ | 11-26-2013 | EMMA COWING

Posted on 11/25/2013 6:29:25 PM PST by Renfield

Author Adam Ardrey claims that instead of the romantic English king of legend who lived at Camelot – which is often said to be Tintagel in Cornwall or in Wales – Arthur was actually Arthur Mac Aedan, the sixth-century son of an ancient King of Scotland, whose Camelot was a marsh in Argyll.

He also suggests that Arthur pulled the sword Excalibur from a stone at Dunadd near Kilmartin, died near Falkirk and was buried on the Hebridean island of Iona, which he declares to be Avalon.

Ardrey, an amateur historian who works as an advocate in Edinburgh and previously wrote a book claiming Merlin the wizard was actually a politician who lived in the Partick area of Glasgow, spent years investigating his theories and says that they can be proved “beyond reasonable doubt”. The assertions in his book Finding Arthur: The True Origins Of The Once And Future King are strengthened by the discovery in 2011 of what some experts believe is King Arthur’s round table in the grounds of Stirling Castle.

Ardrey says he not only believes Arthur is buried in Iona but would love to see the site excavated to look for proof.

“The legendary Arthur is said to be buried in an island in the western seas – Avalon – but in the south of Britain there are no islands in the western seas,” he says...

(Excerpt) Read more at scotsman.com ...


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: adamardrey; argyll; arthur; avalon; camelot; dunadd; excalibur; falkirk; geoffreyofmonmouth; godsgravesglyphs; killingarthur; kilmartin; kingarthur; nennius; pages; rheged; scotland; scotlandyet; stirlingcastle

1 posted on 11/25/2013 6:29:25 PM PST by Renfield
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To: SunkenCiv

Ping


2 posted on 11/25/2013 6:29:45 PM PST by Renfield (Turning apples into venison since 1999!)
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To: Renfield

No he is wrong. Camelot was the home of an Irish King from Boston. He was a killed by McOswald.


3 posted on 11/25/2013 6:35:34 PM PST by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: Renfield; SunkenCiv; Revolting cat!
Arthur was actually Arthur Mac Aedan, the sixth-century son of an ancient King of Scotland, whose Camelot was a marsh in Argyll.

A boggy swamp? That suits the Kennedy Legacy about right.

4 posted on 11/25/2013 6:35:56 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: Renfield

‘Scots, wha hæ wi Wallace bled,
Scots, wham Bruce has aften led,
Welcome tæ yer gory bed,
Or tæ victorie


5 posted on 11/25/2013 6:44:07 PM PST by dynachrome (Vertrou in God en die Mauser)
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To: Renfield

lol


6 posted on 11/25/2013 6:44:35 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: Renfield
as a Scottish man of the druidic “Old Way”, he was the last of his kind

I never knew Arthur was Druish.

7 posted on 11/25/2013 6:49:01 PM PST by MUDDOG
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To: Renfield

an island in the western seas of England?

isle of mann?


8 posted on 11/25/2013 6:52:07 PM PST by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: MUDDOG

Funny, he didn’t look Druish...


9 posted on 11/25/2013 6:54:11 PM PST by To Hell With Poverty (Ephesians 6:12 becomes more real to me with each news cycle.)
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To: Renfield
whose Camelot was a marsh in Argyll

King of Swamp Castle: When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest castle in all of England.

10 posted on 11/25/2013 6:54:21 PM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: Renfield
Oh a new King Arthur interpretation and spanking new book to boot. I prefer the traditional one. Otoh, there is the introduction of the murky grassy gnome element in this tale— that troubles me. It just doesn't add up...
11 posted on 11/25/2013 6:58:43 PM PST by Dysart (Obamacare: "We are losing money on every subscriber-- but we will make it up in volume!")
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To: Renfield
"If it not Scottish, it's CRAP!"
12 posted on 11/25/2013 7:02:33 PM PST by Castlebar
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To: To Hell With Poverty

13 posted on 11/25/2013 7:05:45 PM PST by MUDDOG
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To: Renfield

Thanks for the post! What seems clear from all the legends and literature is that the one thing he was NOT was English. I’m guessing the Welsh side was the easiest locale for the English to accept (and later push) because they’d been the least ferocious in their hatred of the Sassenach.


14 posted on 11/25/2013 7:17:50 PM PST by Mach9
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To: Renfield

Nearly all the ancient kings are buried at Iona. As for Kilmartin Glen..I dont know, but, that was the area where the ancient kings ruled. These were the Picts, and the Scotty Irish kicked them out, eventually. The Picts simply vanished over a very short time. Lots of grave slabs over there that are really interesting to look at. Especially at Kilmartin.


15 posted on 11/25/2013 7:18:13 PM PST by crz
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To: yarddog

LOL!


16 posted on 11/25/2013 8:00:04 PM PST by Aria ( 2008 & 2012 weren't elections - they were coup d'etats.)
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To: yarddog

No the camellot is outside of Riyadh.


17 posted on 11/25/2013 8:19:07 PM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Renfield

bttt


18 posted on 11/25/2013 9:14:00 PM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: Renfield; a fool in paradise; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; ...

Thanks for the topic and pings! It's gotten more and more easy to believe that Arthur's story is a composite, some of which is lock stock and barrel borrowed from non-British folklore. And one of the Arthur stories has him conquering Gaul, a distorted recollection of a couple of Roman-era emperor wannabees, while other aspects appear to derive from Pre-Roman British characters. And the placename "Camelot" is obviously Camulodunum, Roman Colchester.

19 posted on 11/25/2013 11:18:57 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: Renfield

Sounds interesting, BUT,

“Ardrey, an amateur historian who works as an advocate in Edinburgh”

If he was from France, Arthur would be French, Italy, he would be Italian - I see some chauvanism here.

I think Arthur was a Romano-British Warlord “Dux Bellorum” (Chief of Battles)who fought the Saxons sometime after the Romans pulled out of Britain.

The name Arthur appears related to a Latin word for “bear”, Prior to his activities in the late 5th and early 6th Century, Arthur was a relatively rare name. After that time, every other Celt in Britain was naming his kids after him. I think the best sources are Nennius and Gildas.

Nevertheless, in my efforts to read as much as possible about the REAL Arthur, not the fantasy of Sir Thomas Mallory, I must read this book.


20 posted on 11/25/2013 11:41:21 PM PST by ZULU (Impeach that Bastard Barrack Hussein Obama the Doctor Mengele of Medical Care)
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To: crz
Nearly all the ancient kings are buried at Iona...

Somewhere near the girl's dorms, I'll bet.


21 posted on 11/26/2013 4:30:56 AM PST by COBOL2Java (I'm a Christian, pro-life, pro-gun, Reaganite. The GOP hates me. Why should I vote for them?)
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To: Salamander; Darksheare
"Arthur was actually Arthur Mac Aedan,
the sixth-century son of an ancient King of Scotland,
whose Camelot was a marsh in Argyll."




But he married a woman
who had "huge tracts of land."


22 posted on 11/26/2013 6:00:37 AM PST by shibumi (Cover it with gas and set it on fire.)
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To: humblegunner

Scots ping.


23 posted on 11/26/2013 6:23:35 AM PST by TheOldLady
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To: Renfield
Britons In USA In 6th Century - Shock Claim (Prince Madoc)
24 posted on 11/26/2013 8:04:17 AM PST by blam
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To: Renfield

"The trouble with Scotland is that it's full of Scots."

25 posted on 11/26/2013 8:16:56 AM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: Renfield

"The trouble with Scotland is that it's full of Scots."

26 posted on 11/26/2013 8:18:22 AM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: ZULU

ping for later


27 posted on 11/26/2013 10:01:33 AM PST by Conan the Librarian (The Best in Life is to crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and the Dewey Decimal System)
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To: Renfield

I believe that “Arthur” is a conflation of two kings:

When the usurper to the throne, John I, exiled the boy-king Arthur from Island of Great Britain to the Continental half of the Kingdom of Britain, the Continental subjects likened him to a mythical warlord from centuries earlier.

But it is this latter Arthur under whom knights reconquered the City of Barcelona, defeated the Black Knights and reclaimed the Holy Grail. And this is why it is from the French from whom we receive such written stories, such as La Morte d’Artur and de Boron’s Merlin.

This also provides the great ambiguity of Merlin. Geoffrey of Monmouth combined the Byrthonic prophet and madman with the Christian military commander, Ambrosius Aurelianus. Later medieval writers resolved this ambiguity by making him a Christian mystic “of the Order of Melchizadek.” Although the meaning of that has faded from common knowledge, that is the name of the Catholic priesthood.


28 posted on 11/26/2013 11:09:39 AM PST by dangus
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To: dangus

And yes, the Holy Grail is not lost at all; it is in the Cathedral of Valencia, Spain, where it has been since it was brought there by Saint Laurence in AD 279. It is a red agate hemisphere, which has been adorned in later times with bejeweled stem and handles, and has been confirmed to be roughly 2,000 years old (2,200 +/- 200), and from Palestine. “Graal” is a word, meaning cup, derived from Provencal, the dialect of the part of France which borders Spain. The Moors (”black knights”) misunderstood the appelation “the cup of everlasting life,” and perceived the halo around it as indicating it was magical.


29 posted on 11/26/2013 11:20:16 AM PST by dangus
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To: dangus

Although the oldest tales of the “Holy Grail” (by Chretien de Troyes and Robert de Boron) are inconsistent with the history of St. Laurence and the rescue of the sacred relics of Rome, in all cases, it is identified with the Chalice of the Last Supper. The ambiguous descriptions (both as a chalice and a bowl) actually fit the Sancta Caliz, in as much as it was very bowl-like, but made more similar to a familiar, later Catholic chalice by the addition of the stem and handles. Likewise, the paintings of the Holy Chalice, found in churches in the Pyrenees, predate de Troyes’ work, but conform with his description.


30 posted on 11/26/2013 11:29:04 AM PST by dangus
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To: sten

Isles of Scilly ?


31 posted on 11/26/2013 12:48:30 PM PST by Timocrat (Ingnorantia non excusat)
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To: Conan the Librarian

Arcturus = bear in Ancient Greek and into Latin.


32 posted on 11/26/2013 1:03:44 PM PST by ZULU (Impeach that Bastard Barrack Hussein Obama the Doctor Mengele of Medical Care)
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To: ZULU
Guardian of the Bear actually...just like the Star in Bootes. Just read John Morris' book about the history of Britain in the time of Arthur. His take was Arthur was actually the last of the Romans in Britain (though he may have been a Britain, he was fully Roman 'Artōrius' ). He was the son of Ambrosius Aurelianus. He defeated the Saxons at Badon Hill and kept them down until his death. Indeed Geoffery of Monmouth's stuff is fantasy. Morris goes as far as to say he was the last Roman Emperor in Britain. The main problem is that the time from 400 to 600 AD in Britain was a time of little to no writing or record keeping. There just isn't enough First Hand info to say who Arthur was, or was not. The Romans were gone and the Irish Monasteries hadn't taken root yet. Geoffrey Ashe's book came to almost the same conclusion, but, his Arthur was called Riothamus. All great speculation on a time that we may never know about.
33 posted on 11/26/2013 1:56:56 PM PST by Conan the Librarian (The Best in Life is to crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and the Dewey Decimal System)
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To: Conan the Librarian
(Dang HTML failings!) Guardian of the Bear actually...just like the Star in Bootes. Just read John Morris' book about the history of Britain in the time of Arthur. His take was Arthur was actually the last of the Romans in Britain (though he may have been a Britain, he was fully Roman 'Artōrius' ).

He was the son of Ambrosius Aurelianus. He defeated the Saxons at Badon Hill and kept them down until his death. Indeed Geoffery of Monmouth's stuff is fantasy. Morris goes as far as to say he was the last Roman Emperor in Britain.

The main problem is that the time from 400 to 600 AD in Britain was a time of little to no writing or record keeping. There just isn't enough First Hand info to say who Arthur was, or was not. The Romans were gone and the Irish Monasteries hadn't taken root yet.

Geoffrey Ashe's book came to almost the same conclusion, but, his Arthur was called Riothamus. All great speculation on a time that we may never know about.

34 posted on 11/26/2013 2:18:01 PM PST by Conan the Librarian (The Best in Life is to crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and the Dewey Decimal System)
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To: a fool in paradise

All the other petty sixth-century kings told him he was daft to build his Camelot in a marsh, but he built it just the same. And it sank into the marsh. He built another one — that sank into the marsh. He built a third one — that one burned down, fell over, then sank into the marsh. But the fourth one stayed up!


35 posted on 11/26/2013 6:10:45 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Whoops, that’s what I get for not checking first. :’)


36 posted on 11/26/2013 6:11:19 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: SunkenCiv

THAT sounds like the history of Amsterdam.


37 posted on 11/26/2013 6:15:23 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: ZULU

Ditto on the “bear” — Ursa is Latin for bear, Arth (Rth) is Welsh (not Scottish, although it might be Pictish, which appears to have been P-Celtic like Welsh and Cornish) for bear, making Arthursa a macaronic name meaning bear.

Geoffrey of Monmouth preserved a load of stuff about Arthur and other old lore. Gildas never once mentions Arthur by name, but does refer to one or more of Arthur’s Twelve (legendary) battles. Apparently there may have been some bad blood for Gildas, who was related to one of Arthur’s rivals (whoever Arthur was).


38 posted on 11/26/2013 6:16:07 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: a fool in paradise

Hamster dance?


39 posted on 11/26/2013 6:19:06 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: Conan the Librarian

Read all of them. Asch’s Riothamus is interesting as he does give a source that says a British Roman Chieftain led a force into Gaul and was lost in battle there.

This is really a fascinating part of history - Sub Roman Britain.


40 posted on 11/27/2013 5:48:40 AM PST by ZULU (Impeach that Bastard Barrack Hussein Obama the Doctor Mengele of Medical Care)
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To: SunkenCiv

Interesting, thanks for the ping.


41 posted on 12/01/2013 10:38:14 PM PST by Altariel ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!")
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To: Altariel

My pleasure. Coel of Rheged (”Old King Cole”, literally) was roughly contemporary with Arthur, assuming there was an actual Arthur, and ruled the buffer state between the rest of former Roman Britain and Caledonia (Scotland).

http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsBritain/BritainRheged.htm

I’m currently convinced that “King Arthur — The True Story” by Graham Phillips is basically correct, and that Arthur’s capital was Viroconium (basically, modern Wroxeter). I’m also certain that the Arthurian legends incorporate loads of borrowings, both from medieval France as well as pre-Roman, Roman, and post-Roman Britain.

http://www.grahamphillips.net/books/Arthur.htm


42 posted on 12/02/2013 7:35:20 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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