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Crazy about Open Carry
National Review ^ | 12/19/2013 | Charles C. W. Cooke

Posted on 12/19/2013 8:19:15 AM PST by rktman

The University of Texas’s resident “writing and photography” guru, Matt Valentine, has identified for your delectation a vexatious “new craze.”

The worrying trend, Valentine reported yesterday on Salon, is nothing less than the open carrying of firearms, and it “is more dangerous than you think.” Crazy libertarians, you see, have opened up a “new front line in the battle over gun rights and public safety in American culture,” and they are demanding the “liberty to display their guns in public rather than keep them concealed under clothing.”

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Education; Society
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; guncontrol; opencarry
Well, I just tried to stomach my way through the salon.com piece and my stomach couldn't handle the whole thing. Let's just say........mularkey.(SP) What a load of crap. The implied undertone(?) is that the mere sight of a firearm will trigger all sorts of alarms. Well, after all the enormous costly campaigns to make it so, lots of scared folks out there react just that way. If there's a gun around, by golly it's gonna go off sooner or later. No/low info, brain dead, didiots.
1 posted on 12/19/2013 8:19:15 AM PST by rktman
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To: rktman
the mere sight of a firearm will trigger all sorts of alarms.

It will among liberal weenies but they'll live. It only takes a couple of high profile cases in each state before police pretty much leave the issue alone.
2 posted on 12/19/2013 8:26:35 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: rktman
and it “is more dangerous than you think.

I assume he backs this up with emotions, not actual proof.

3 posted on 12/19/2013 8:26:41 AM PST by umgud (2A can't survive dem majorities)
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To: rktman

Times I’ve carried openly, it’s extremely rare for anyone to notice.


4 posted on 12/19/2013 8:30:00 AM PST by Standing Wolf (No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.)
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To: rktman

The sight of anyone packing heat doesn’t offend me.

The sight of the Obamadork, Boxer, Pelosi, Reid, (and pretty much any congresscritter) anyone on MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS, anyone from CAIR or the ACLU, greatly offends me.

And - coming soon - we’re just gonna say no.

Oops, make that h*ll no, and make our day.


5 posted on 12/19/2013 8:30:16 AM PST by Da Coyote
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To: rktman

Isn’t open carry currently illegal in Texas? Then why would a University of Texas professor have his panties in a wad over it?


6 posted on 12/19/2013 8:31:37 AM PST by Yo-Yo
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To: rktman
The Salon article is just another one of many from the lib/leftists view of the "evil" gun. The Evil Gun has a life it its own. Possessing the Evil Gun turns a normally mind-mannered person into a raging, psychotic killer who shoots at anything that moves.

It was best typified in a movie with Jamie Lee Curtis and Ron Silver called "Blue Steel" where Silver's character takes a gun from a crime scene, and the mere possession of the gun turns Silver into a murderous lunatic. Libs actually believe that stuff.

Which is why any accidental gun deaths are loudly trumpeted in the news while the prevention of a crime by a legally-armed citizen is never printed or aired.

7 posted on 12/19/2013 8:32:18 AM PST by driftless2
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To: Standing Wolf

They even open carry in the state capitol building here in Michigan. Democrats get their panties in a wad over it but none of them have been killed yet.


8 posted on 12/19/2013 8:34:45 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

These people are becoming extremely tiresome.


9 posted on 12/19/2013 8:47:17 AM PST by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: rktman

While I appreciate open carry as a way of reassuring the public that there are armed citizens about; tactically, concealed carry is far more practical.

Open carry sends a message to everyone. Concealed carry sends a message just to criminals, and one they cannot see coming. A message that even dimwits can get.

Finally, something I harp on, if you carry a concealed carry handgun, you should definitely carry a quick draw sheath knife, as the two are very complementary for self defense.

It’s all good, and the more, the merrier.


10 posted on 12/19/2013 9:17:55 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Last Obamacare Promise: "If You Like Your Eternal Soul, You Can Keep It.")
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To: Yo-Yo
Then why would a University of Texas professor have his panties in a wad over it?

Because Austin is the blue blight in the middle of the red/blue election map and UT professors are bluer than blue. There is one (maybe more) UT prof who lectures that due to overpopulation, ebola should be used to eliminate 90% of all humans. I don't see him at the front of the line.

Then there's UT's temper tantrum on the Top Ten ruling. Several years ago, UT was so into diversity that they refused to admit some well qualified white students into Pre-Law giving those slots to less qualified minorities. The whites (specifically a white female, Hopwood) filed suit and won. Eventually, that played out into the Top Ten ruling which states that if you graduate in the top 10% of your Texas high school class, you will automatically be admitted into a Texas public college. That was meant to help get minorities from podunk schools a leg up. All well and good until 4 years ago when UT got their panties in a wad because too many Top Ten students (cough, whites who had the tuition $) were being admitted so that left less openings for minorities who couldn't get in on their own merit with good grades and high SAT scores - OH, NO!!! So, UT's president decided to bully the TX legislature into eliminating the ruling. When that didn't work, he went public announcing that if the ruling wasn't changed immediately, UT would have to do away with football - OH, NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Ha, as if, snort! But, the legislature caved/compromised to all powerful UT even though it was UT's fault we had the ruling in the first place. Now, UT has to only admit the top 8% and they have to make X score on the SAT but all the other public universities still have to admit the top 10% (because their football teams aren't as important as UT's). Whew, what a relief that UT can recruit more not so smart minority athletes while us taxpayers had to pay for all the controversy in the legislature. Further proof libs can dish it out but can't take it. Same with the open carry.

11 posted on 12/19/2013 9:48:10 AM PST by bgill
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To: bgill

Thanks for that info on the Top 10 Rule being amended for UT. I hadn’t heard that before but that’s not surprising since I live north of the Red River.

As to the UT professor, watch for his head to explode when the TX Legislature finally gets around to catching up with all the surrounding states on OC for handguns.


12 posted on 12/19/2013 9:55:47 AM PST by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: rktman
From the linked article: "One of the more valuable precepts of our civil society is that one’s having a constitutional right to do something does not necessarily mean that one should do it. In much of the country, Second Amendment advocates are quite right when they insist that openly carrying guns is legal. But that’s not the point. Of course people are going to be upset if you walk brazenly into a coffee shop with an AR-15, and no amount of “It’s my right” will change the fact. Suffice it to say that you probably won’t do a great job of attracting people to your cause if your idea of proselytizing is to stick a gun and a copy of the Constitution in their faces."

Someone help me with this concept.

What would have possessed our Founders to have enumerated a right that "should not" be exercised?

This seems to mimic the atheist stance that religious people "should not" exercise their religion. Similarly, one "should not" exercise their right to be secure in their persons and homes because honest people have nothing to hide.

Is there something special about coffee shops which make the Constitution irrelevant?

13 posted on 12/19/2013 10:06:50 AM PST by William Tell
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
yefragetuwrabrumuy said: "... tactically, concealed carry is far more practical."

You can't practically carry an AR15 concealed. If that is the weapon you need, then it must be open carried.

Further, your statement doesn't consider the tactical advantage to YOU when others carry openly.

14 posted on 12/19/2013 10:11:43 AM PST by William Tell
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To: William Tell

>>Is there something special about coffee shops which make the Constitution irrelevant? <<

Yes, they serve Kool Aid to anyone who asks for it.


15 posted on 12/19/2013 10:37:22 AM PST by B4Ranch (Name your illness, do a Google & YouTube search with "hydrogen peroxide". Do it and be surprised.)
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To: William Tell

One quibble, it’s not our Right that is enumerated, it just has an enumerated protection for that Right in the “Supreme Law of the Land”.


16 posted on 12/19/2013 10:44:21 AM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Unless you are trying to draw someone in to attack you, making yourself look weaker than you are has no tactical advantage.

If you look like food, don’t be surprised when something tries to eat you.


17 posted on 12/19/2013 10:45:45 AM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: William Tell

It is exceptionally rare when you need an AR-15 in any sort of urban or suburban situation away from the home. Though I’ve no objection to it, its optimal range is outside a typical gunfight, so any need to carry it concealed is mitigated.

Likewise, criminals only very rarely carry openly, and there is little or no need for advantage against an honest citizen carrying openly, unless they enter into an existing gunfight and do not know who is the criminal and who is the good guy. You still don’t want to shoot them, you want them to not shoot at you.


18 posted on 12/19/2013 10:50:47 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Last Obamacare Promise: "If You Like Your Eternal Soul, You Can Keep It.")
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To: Dead Corpse

It has a huge tactical advantage, even if the aggressor is brandishing a cocked gun, someone with concealed carry has lots of advantages.

To start with, if you think they are hostile, but they do not know you are armed, you might not be their priority, thus allowing you to seek cover and pull your weapon. If there is more than just you on “your side”, any of you might be armed, which divides the aggressor’s attention.

If they see you are armed, they might “get the drop on you”, so if you go for your gun, they will shoot you. But if they don’t know you are armed, they likely *want* something from you, not to shoot you, but their attention is all over the place; whereas yours is simple: retrieve gun and shoot them.

If they want to rob you, you have to get out things they want, like your wallet, giving you the opportunity to draw on them if they are distracted. Likewise, if you give them your stuff and they turn to leave, you can shoot them.

So again, while open carry sends a message to everyone that you are armed, concealed carry just sends a message to criminals. In the form of hot lead.


19 posted on 12/19/2013 11:00:22 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Last Obamacare Promise: "If You Like Your Eternal Soul, You Can Keep It.")
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To: William Tell

Agreed - the author lost me at that point.


20 posted on 12/19/2013 11:39:15 AM PST by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

If you look weak, and like an easy target... You will get attacked with greater frequency than if you looked like a tough meal/hard target.

Period.

This is why schools and malls get attacked by random nutcases with greater frequency than police stations.

Everything else is strawmen and unsupportable by logic or actual criminal stats.


21 posted on 12/19/2013 12:18:39 PM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy; All

“If they see you are armed, they might “get the drop on you”, so if you go for your gun, they will shoot you.”

Almost never happens. Far more commonly, they pick a different target.

“But if they don’t know you are armed, they likely *want* something from you, not to shoot you, but their attention is all over the place; whereas yours is simple: retrieve gun and shoot them.”

Sometime it happens that way, perhaps more often than not. I have also seen a number of instances where the person who is carrying concealed is attacked *because* the perpetrator thinks that they are unarmed.

Concealed carry and open carry both have their advantages and disadvantages. I use both when I think prudent to do so.


22 posted on 12/19/2013 12:48:29 PM PST by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: marktwain; All
Maybe wearing this shirt could baffle the bad guys long enough to give me a better chance, regardless of whether I'm carrying concealed or open. Confound and confuse, lol!


23 posted on 12/19/2013 1:13:06 PM PST by deoetdoctrinae (Gun-free zones are playgrounds for felons.)
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To: rktman

Meanwhile, in California my Federal Civil Rights lawsuit seeking to overturn California’s 1967 ban on openly carrying loaded firearms as well as overturning the two recently enacted unloaded open carry bans is fully briefed and awaiting a decision from the district court judge.

As luck would have it the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals recently established a framework for evaluating Second Amendment cases. California Attorney General Harris must prove that Open Carry falls outside of the scope of the Second Amendment as it was understood at the time of ratification and she must prove that the bans on open carry do not burden the Second Amendment right. http://CaliforniaRightToCarry.org


24 posted on 12/19/2013 1:14:19 PM PST by Charles Nichols (California Right To Carry)
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To: marktwain
marktwain said: "Concealed carry and open carry both have their advantages and disadvantages."

Certainly true.

A shooter in Oregon at a mall decided to give up and killed himself after seeing a person who had been carrying concealed draw on him. I think it likely that he would not have chosen the mall as his shooting ground if every other person had been carrying openly.

These cowards who shoot the unarmed may be willing to die but they seldom seem anxious to suffer grevious painful and debilitating wounds followed by decades of life in a wheelchair behind bars.

25 posted on 12/19/2013 1:14:58 PM PST by William Tell
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To: Dead Corpse

You are worried about getting attacked or not, because you look like an easier or harder target. But this is totally reliant on the mind of the criminal. They are defective units, which is why they are criminals in the first place.

Policemen in uniform, with open carry guns, are attacked by criminals all the time. Often the criminals are so drunk or on drugs they neither know nor care that a cop has a gun. So what are their pea brains going to care if you, a civilian, have one?

The Tueller drill is based on the idea of a criminal with a knife rushing a police officer with a gun. Again, in uniform and with open carry. The criminal does not care that they have a gun, and are attacking with a knife.

My personal preference is that precisely because you have no idea of a “potential” opponents intentions, if they *walk* towards me, while saying something non-threatening like “do you have a light?”, my hand is going to be on my sheath knife, not a gun, because the moment it is drawn it is in use, even if the guy is right in front of me. No chance of my gun being “smothered”, by him so I cannot draw and brandish it at him.

I will tell him to halt at maybe 10 feet and if he doesn’t, a knife is pointed at him. If he comes in, he is stabbed or slashed. If he backs off, then I can draw my gun. If he tries to draw a gun, we are about evenly matched, at worst.

I really do not care what a criminal is thinking, and neither should you. That is not part of the equation.


26 posted on 12/19/2013 2:20:09 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Last Obamacare Promise: "If You Like Your Eternal Soul, You Can Keep It.")
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To: rktman

Why did you post it in chat?

The left is picking all the wrong fights, and open carry is one of them, IMHO.


27 posted on 12/19/2013 2:46:48 PM PST by neverdem (Register pressure cookers! /s)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Wow... Every non-sequitur and strawman you can think of.

It doesn’t happen. Cops are rarely attacked, unless they are trying to actually apprehend someone.

Don’t believe me. The numbers speak for themselves...


28 posted on 12/19/2013 4:52:42 PM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: neverdem

Just crazy I guess. LOL! Sometimes I post stuff and can’t decide just where to put it. What are you thinkin’? Activisism?


29 posted on 12/19/2013 5:04:05 PM PST by rktman (Under my plan(scheme), the price of EVERYTHING will necessarily skyrocket! Period.)
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To: Dead Corpse

While you and I disagree about concealed and open carry, I respect your opinion on it. And arguing tactics, as I learned long ago, has no resolution. So it is probably good to end the thread.

A note on style.

That being said, I strongly recommend not using the phrase “strawman or strawmen”, as it has become extremely trite through over- and misuse. (Also is the over- and misuse of the phrase “ad hominem”.) What makes them worse is that they are continually bandied about on leftist forums.


30 posted on 12/19/2013 6:14:32 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Last Obamacare Promise: "If You Like Your Eternal Soul, You Can Keep It.")
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To: rktman
What are you thinkin’? Activisism?

Yes, and editorial sidebar! After the Supreme Court's Second Amendment decisions in Heller and McDonald, it's time to counterattack all of the left's BS!

31 posted on 12/20/2013 3:51:21 AM PST by neverdem (Register pressure cookers! /s)
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To: neverdem

LOL! If(when) we attack ALL of it, how would we know where to start? Everything that comes out of them is BS. I’ll see what I can do next time I post something “pertinent”.


32 posted on 12/20/2013 6:54:26 AM PST by rktman (Under my plan(scheme), the price of EVERYTHING will necessarily skyrocket! Period.)
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