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Joseph Smith 'gave us everything' & XMAS vs. LMOS (Local Manifestations of 'Smithmas') [Vanity]
Colofornian | Dec. 22, 2013 | Colofornian

Posted on 12/22/2013 7:55:11 AM PST by Colofornian

It’s three days to Christmas, 2008. And the Mormon Church-owned Deseret News is at it yet once again:

”In 1844, there were approximately 26,000 members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Yet, when W.W. Phelps penned a song of tribute to his beloved, fallen Prophet, he promised that ‘millions shall know Brother Joseph again’” [My note: The ‘song of tribute’ is an actual praise song directed TO Joseph Smith, ‘Praise to the Man’...for more on this, see Mormon Tabernacle Choir conductor: 'Praise to the Man'...hymn praises Joseph Smith [Smithmas vanity]]

The DesNews article continues:

"...Now known not only to the millions of members of the LDS Church, but also by countless more around the world, Joseph Smith has taken a unique and respected place in American and religious history...An advance copy of the CD was presented to President Thomas S. Monson...He reminisced about serving as a mission president in Toronto, ‘the only area outside his own, where Joseph Smith taught.’ He also noted that he's always appreciated the fact that Joseph Smith was born in the season in which we celebrate the birth of Christ...And at this season, he's happy that our thoughts can be drawn to Joseph Smith. ‘He gave us everything.’"

So the current Mormon "prophet" – three days before Christmas and one day before Joseph Smith's birthday – pronounces that Joseph Smith "gave us everything?"

What does that look like to the average non-Mormon?

Yup, that's right: Merry Smithmas!

Morpologist Daniel C. Peterson vs. Mormon Aristotle Smith

In the previous two years, Lds "apologist" Daniel C. Peterson has tried – in vain – to develop a "we don't celebrate 'Smithmas'" apologetic.

This was his blog effort in 2012: Merry Smithmas!

And two years ago today--Dec. 22, 2011-- Peterson jumpstarted a forum at Mormondialogue.com jon the same subject: "Celebration of Smithmas." In this forum, Peterson eventually declares that "Oh, Smithmas is definitely an invention of our apostate critics..." Another poster, a writer with the Deseret News (Scott Lloyd), stated on Jan. 3, 2012 on this same forum thread that: "It is clear from discussion in this thread that the 'Smithmas' notion is a fantasy invented from whole cloth by antagonists for political purposes."

Yet the ironic aspect is that Peterson himself – on Dec. 22, 2011 -- acknowledged how he personally celebrates "Smithmas" in the original forum post on "Smithmas":

"In my house we actually do celebrate Joseph Smith's birthday on 23 December. We've done it roughly for ten years now, maybe fifteen. We'll do it tomorrow night. We invite friends over, have a potluck meal and a White Elephant party, maybe tell a story about Joseph Smith..."

Peterson didn't hold back in declaring the same thing on his Nov. 30, 2012 blog on the topic.

Well, at another Mormon forum – Mormondiscussions.com – Mormon poster "Aristotle Smith" couldn't but help note the extreme irony, quoting Peterson's blog twice [Note: "DCP" = Daniel C. Peterson]:

"...after denying vehemently that Mormons worship Joseph Smith and celebrate Smithmas, DCP then talks about what he and his family do every December 23rd: Quote: So far from the truth is it that my wife and I, ten or so years back, decided to host a small birthday party for Joseph Smith at our home every 23 December. We thought it sad that, amidst all the busyness and commercialism of Christmas, his signal contribution to our lives and faith usually went altogether unmentioned. We may have missed a year or two since then — though I’m not sure of that — and we’ll be out of state this year, but, for the most part, we’ve continued this newly-invented custom annually. Our birthday party typically involves a potluck dinner, something about Joseph Smith, and then . . . Christmas carols and Christmas hymns. (We include among those we’ve usually invited some good and exceptionally musical friends — e.g., a composer with a doctorate in musicology, a former professional opera singer, a music teacher and member of the Tabernacle Choir with a master’s degree in choral conducting, and several members of recorded choral groups — so it’s a real treat for us.) [Aristotle Smith then adds]: So the proof that Mormons don't celebrate Smithmas is...the fact that DCP is the biggest purveyor of Smithmas. My irony meter exploded when in the very next paragraph after the quoted paragraph above was this: Quote: If anybody out there can point to specific examples of “Smithmas” in his or her experience, I would appreciate hearing about them. [Aristotle Smith finishes his Dec. 2, 2012 post with]: "Um, yeah, try your own blog post."

In the 2011 discussion two years ago today, Mormon poster Cobalt -70 reacted to Peterson's announcement about his personal "Smithmas" parties:

"...I hope it doesn't catch on. If Smith were born some time other than two days before Christmas, then that would be great. But anything that celebrates both Joseph Smith with Jesus in the same context is not a good thing for Mormon PR."

In the same forum, Jan. 2, 2012, Mormon poster Sethbag noted: "...I think that IMHO an inordinate amount of attention is paid to Joseph Smith. He's been succeeded as Prophet, Seer, and Revelator what, fifteen times now? And yet Joseph Smith probably gets more airtime in LDS circles than all of his successors put together, probably by some large multiple. Whether Smithmas is real or not, the amount of attention paid to the founder of the religion sure is pretty freaking high." Sources of above two quotes: See: See second "hit" on this google search for who posted in Mormondialogue.org: "Celebration Of Smithmas" See: http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/56547-celebration-of-smithmas/

XMAS vs. LMOS

"Xmas" is an abbreviated version of "Christmas." What's LMOS? It's an acronym for Local Manifestations of Smithmas!

While most of "Smithmas" flows from Utah cities like Salt Lake City, Provo (BYU), and Logan (Lds' Religion Institute at Utah State), this chart below shows LMOS – Local Manifestations of Smithmas – do occur.

For example, what do the years 2012, 2007, 2001, 1990, 1979 – or even a year going all the way back to 1894 -- all have in common?

Answer: The so-called "Christmas" service in Mormondom fell upon Joseph Smith's Dec. 23 birthday!

You see, Mormonism doesn't offer "special" Christmas Eve or Christmas Day services to celebrate that incarnational event unless it happens to fall on a Sunday -- Sabbath day.

So, over the past 187 years of the existence of the Mormon Church, that Sabbath has an equal chance of falling on either Jesus' birthday -- or Joseph Smith's. And as to which Historic person gets more attention that year could depend upon whose birthday falls closest to that fourth Sunday in December!

Well, in 1894, Joseph Smith's nephew, Joseph F. Smith, also a "living prophet" of the Mormon church, advocated that Mormons should celebrate Joseph Smith's birthday: This, too, was recommended on a Sabbath -- Dec. 23, 1894 – a day which could be sourced as the festive "jumpstart" of "Smithmas!" [See MormonHeritage.com]

This very tension within Mormonism leads to some uncomfortable moments among Mormons come Dec. 23...Like the years 1979 and 2001.

Mormondialogue forum poster Rameumptom was reminiscing earlier this month about such a special "Smithmas" year, Dec. 23, 1979:

"I recall the one Christmas Sacrament meeting during my mission (1979), when a member of the stake presidency spoke and said he wasn't going to talk about Jesus, who he said was not born in December, but in April.  So he talked about Joseph Smith. He [mis]quoted D&C 135 by saying "Joseph Smith has done more for the benefit of man than any other man in history". Our Sunday School Gospel Doctrine teacher, who was a school principal, had about a dozen teachers from his school he invited so they could see Mormons believe in Christ..."(p. 4) (MormonDialogue.org)

And when Smith's birthday rose up again on Sabbath Day, 2001, Mormon poster "Backpew" at NewOrderMormon.org relayed his/her experience earlier that day:

"I promised myself to not even look at this bb this weekend so I could find my own Christmas spirit. But, something happened at sac meeting that I just KNEW would happen, but was hoping WOULDN'T happen....It actually started out very lovely. The narrator was one of my favorite men in the ward -- very soft spoken. His script read, 'A good shepherd does not drive his sheep with dogs and horses....' 'the sheep hear the good shepherd's voice, and they know it, and they follow it...' I felt all tingly because that felt like a very good start to a good Christmas program. Though our choir isn't the best I've ever heard, I was determined to soak it all in. We have some talented violinists, and some talented pianists, and the narration was so nice, and a girl in our ward sang with such an angelic voice. But the whole time I was thinking to myself, 'I'll bet they can't get through this program without conking me on the head with the Restoration, Joseph Smith, GBH is our prophet on earth today,' yadda yadda yadda. And guess what? It happened at the end when the Bishop spoke. ARRRRRRGGGGHHHH. I like our Bishop as a person, but... oh well. I guess I just don't belong. Merry Christmas to you all. May you find the peace that this time of year is supposed to bring." (NewOrderMormon.org: First time at church today in 10 months--Whew! [Lds posters comment on "SmithEmphasisMas" @ Lds Church on Dec. 23] Note: "GBH" = Gordon B. Hinckley

Indeed, many Mormons simply feel out of place in the Mormon Church.

XMAS vs. LMOS: Local Manifestations of 'Smithmas'

DATE COMMENTARY LINK/SOURCE Additional Commentary
2013 A Mormon thread overseer attempts to engage in Morpologetics, yet manages to stir up either wonderment that such a "Smithmas" recognition "out there" exists (at times, the discussion takes on a "Does Santa Claus exist?" flavor re: the existence of "Smithmas"). One Mormon poster recalls the 2005 BYU Joseph Smith nativity scene: "JKWilliams: As I recall, BYU had a sort of 'Joseph Smith Manger' scene set up that Christmas season, which to me was a bit unseemly" On page one of this forum, one poster discusses Lds Morpologist Daniel Peterson's 2012 attempt to dismiss the "Smithmas" trend: "Dan makes the obvious point that among the Latter-day Saints, there is scarcely ever a mention of the birth of Joseph Smith at this time of year, let alone an observance of it that overshadows Christmas." MormonDialogue.org: Smithmas... This despite the fact that Daniel C. Peterson himself has blogged that his family has friends-over for Joseph Smith birthday parties for the past 10-15 years!
2012 (Nov. 30) Poster Aristotle Smith: "I just realized that Christmas falls on a Tuesday this year, so December 23 is on a Sunday. This of course provides a great opportunity for the LDS church to prove its Christian roots by using that day to talk about Joseph Smith, it is his birthday after all. So, will the average LDS ward celebrate Smithmas or Christmas on December 23 this year? I'm guessing my wife's ward will split the difference and dedicate part to Joseph Smith and part to Jesus. Aristotle Smith's "irony meter" also exploded in commenting upon Lds apologist's comments from a then-recently released blog about "Smithmas" MormonDiscussions.com: Will Smithmas return this year? Beyond the excerpt above, ya gotta read some of the humor of this thread...click on the above link
2011 (Dec. 22) Lds morpologist jumpstarts thread in which he concedes his family personally celebrates Joseph Smith's birthday on an annual basis. It has all the "pine tree" scent of "Smithmas" – though Peterson doesn't like that name. Peterson writes: "In my house we actually do celebrate Joseph Smith's birthday on 23 December. We've done it roughly for ten years now, maybe fifteen. We'll do it tomorrow night. We invite friends over, have a potluck meal and a White Elephant party, maybe tell a story about Joseph Smith..." See second "hit" on this google search for who posted in Mormondialogue.org: "Celebration Of Smithmas" See: http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/56547-celebration-of-smithmas/ See comments in above article
2010 (March 4) Pam, head moderator: "Who, then, is the 'root of Jesse'? It appears that the Prophet Joseph Smith is both the 'rod' and the 'root' that will come from Jesse…" 2 Nephi 21 For more on this, see: D&c 325 Test #2 [Merry 'SMITHMAS!' BYU class says Joseph Smith is both 'Rod' and 'Root' of Jesse]
2009 (Dec. 24) Mormon columnist Doug Gibson: "...every December around Christmastime, sacrament turns into a bummer, at least for me. Almost every year, Jesus Christ seems to be a bit player. I don’t know who is to blame. Maybe bishoprics are instructed to have “Christmas Sunday” appear as just another Sabbath in the ward house, with a couple of religious carols thrown in the mix as a nod to the holiday...Every year I convince myself we’re going to have a real Christmas Sunday with talks on the Lord’s birth and the congregation singing Christmas carols along with the ward choir, and, well  There are not-too-subtle conflicts...the prophet’s birthday is Dec. 23.Although Joseph Smith, for all his recognition, is not the same as Jesus Christ,there have been occasions where “Praise to the Man” is sung more often than “Away in the Manger” on Christmastime Sunday. But most of the time there’s just a maddeningly frustrating neutrality about Christmas, Joseph Smith and Jesus Christ. Take the most recent sacrament meeting. The opening song was “The First Vision,” and then the bishop reminded us that  during this season we should remember the birth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. That seemed an appropriate nod to the man and I was encouraged that there were two Christmas carols and three talks left on the program. But the talks, which bookended a ward choir Christmas carol, were not about Christ’s birth, although they did capture His spirit. They were well-prepared, informative and spiritual talks that would have been appropriate for any sacrament meeting, but why can’t we have had talks about the birth of Christ? Is there some edict against it? ... Christ shouldn’t get the bump like a diet book author waiting his turn on a Letterman show that runs too long. Doug Gibson, Utah Mormon columnist: The dreaded Christmastime ward sacrament meeting; see also: The dreaded Christmastime ward sacrament meeting [Mormon Merry Smithmas!] Mormons, isn't it time to have a "real Christmas Sunday?" Come worship in a church this season that truly honors the birth of the Lord Jesus. Christmas is for Jesus Christ. Honoring Him. Don't 'bump' him 'like a diet book author waiting his turn' on an over-extended Letterman show.  
2008 (Dec. 1) Blog: "The two hundredth anniversary of Joseph Smith’s birth is three years past, and the hand wringing of Smith-centric sacrament meetings in December (Christmas infringement!) is mostly abated. Still, it shouldn’t be a surprise that commemorating the birth and life of the Prophet of the Restoration is part of our liturgical calendar, ad hoc and informal though it may be." Bycommonconsent.com: 'Joseph and Jesus' Call it what you will: Smith-centricism; Christmas infringement; the eclipse of Christmas; or, just plain "Smithmas"
2007 (Dec. 21) Don, BYU business management grad and former Lds missionary to Guatamala: "Regardless, the 'root of Jesse' is almost surely the Prophet Joseph Smith. He holds the keys of this kingdom in both time and eternity and is the president of the last and greatest of all dispensations, the dispensation of the fulness of times. (See D&C 27:12-13; 90:1-3;112:30-32; 128:18-21) He is the living ensign to which the present generation must gather. We cannot, in reality, come to Christ if we do not accept his servant, Joseph Smith. "The Lord's works are first spiritual and then temporal, or physical. (See D&C 29:31-32) All of the spiritual keys, powers, doctrines, and ordinances revealed through the Prophet Joseph Smith must be honored and implemented before Zion, the second ensign, can be literally established in fullness and glory. (See D&C 64:41-43; 105:3-5) That day is not far off (Witness of Jesus Christ: The 1989 Sperry Symposium on the Old Testament, Richard D. Draper. See ch. 14 "The Two Davids"). So any hope I had of finding a definitive answer on who the rod and branch is or are, is lost in a sea of opinions. It could be Christ or Joseph Smith or a powerful Jewish leader named David." Isaiah 11 & 12: The Rod, Stem of Jesse, the Branch and the Roots "Oh come, Oh come, EmmanSMITHuel? See D&c 325 Test #2 [Merry 'SMITHMAS!' BYU class says Joseph Smith is both 'Rod' and 'Root' of Jesse]
2007 (Sept. 16) This blog addresses some Mormons dismissals that they celebrate "Smithmas": "Of course, there are a few problems with that characterization, aren’t there? Chief among them — if Joseph Smith is really just like John the Baptist, then why don’t we treat the two similarly? And despite doctrinal protests, we really don’t. In the current hymnal, there are no hymns about Moses. None about John the Baptist (though Jesus’s baptism is referenced a few times). A few cursory mentions of Peter, in places like What Was Witnessed (#11), and implied mention in #105, Master the Tempest is Raging. There are some mentions of Adam — more than any other Biblical prophet, probably — as well as Enoch. In contrast, we get two very well-known, oft-sung hymns focusing directly on Joseph Smith: Praise to the Man, and Oh How Lovely was the Morning. Prior hymnals contained many more: The Seer; Blest was the Day when the Prophet and Seer; O Give me Back my Prophet; and so on...The same goes for church art. The average church building might have pictures of Joseph Smith alone; of the First Vision; of the priesthood restoration; of translation. The Gospel Art kit reflects this. It contains ten pictures of Joseph Smith. There are six pictures of Jesus’ apostles, four pictures of Moses, Lehi, and Nephi, and three each of Adam and Daniel..." Timesandseasons.org: Praising the man; see also: Praising the man [Mormon Merry Smithmas!] Iconic adoration of Joseph Smith – and a previous hymnal edition that had even more praise songs to Joseph Smith
2005 (Dec. 19) A grassroots Mormon makes mention of Joseph Smith-centrism, 'Praise to the Man,' and the Joseph Smith Nativity creche at BYU that month ByCommonConsent.com: "Dealing with Smithmas"; see also: "Dealing with “Smithmas” [Mormon worship of Joseph Smith] See: Joseph Smith Nativity [A Virtual 'Merry Smithmas' 'Greeting Card' circa 2005]
2005 (Feb. 10) These are original quotes from Mormon leaders that insert Joseph Smith in place of Jesus Christ as the way to heaven MormonCurtain.com: Reasons Joseph Smith is More Important Than Jesus; see also: Reasons Joseph Smith Is More Important Than Jesus [Mormon Merry Smithmas!] See How would YOU score on this 26-question quiz about 'Smithmas?' [Vanity, Part A] and Chart entitled: "Mormon leader proclamations where the 'confession' is about Joseph Smith – and usually mentions/implies Smith as the 'Way' -- the 'consent'[er] or passport" in Mormon Tabernacle Choir conductor: 'Praise to the Man'...hymn praises Joseph Smith [Smithmas vanity]
Previous Sample Years: 2001 – a year in which the "Christmas" Sunday fell upon "Smithmas" – Joseph Smith's Dec. 23rd birthday Poster "January" comments: "Thanks for the opportunity to vent.
I went to church today, too, and yes, lots of very dull, ill-prepared music and minimal decoration. I went with a pretty bad attitude, but it is lame that one of the two most important holidays in all Christendom just is like any other Sunday at our church. It would help if our chapels at least looked like churches, the stained glass alone at other churches gets me in a worshipful mood. I am looking forward to going a Protestant Christmas eve ceremony tomorrow."
Poster "backpew" then described his Dec. 23 experience: "I promised myself to not even look at this bb this weekend so I could find my own Christmas spirit. But, something happened at sac meeting that I just KNEW would happen, but was hoping WOULDN'T happen..... It actually started out very lovely. The narrator was one of my favorite men in the ward -- very soft spoken. His script read, "A good shepherd does not drive his sheep with dogs and horses...." "the sheep hear the good shepherd's voice, and they know it, and they follow it..." I felt all tingly because that felt like a very good start to a good Christmas program. Though our choir isn't the best I've ever heard, I was determined to soak it all in. We have some talented violinists, and some talented pianists, and the narration was so nice, and a girl in our ward sang with such an angelic voice. But the whole time I was thinking to myself, "I'll bet they can't get through this program without conking me on the head with the Restoration, Joseph Smith, GBH is our prophet on earth today," yadda yadda yadda. And guess what? It happened at the end when the Bishop spoke. ARRRRRRGGGGHHHH. I like our Bishop as a person, but... oh well. I guess I just don't belong. Merry Christmas to you all. May you find the peace that this time of year is supposed to bring."
NewOrderMormon.org: First time at church today in 10 months--Whew! [Lds posters comment on "SmithEmphasisMas" @ Lds Church on Dec. 23] Years like 2001 and 1979 intensify the tension between Mormons who want to focus on Joseph Smith vs. those who want to focus on Jesus Christ. Because no Christmas Day or Christmas Eve services are held in the Mormon Church unless those calendar days fall on a Sunday, then that fourth Sunday de facto becomes "the Christmas service." Tension then builds when that fourth Sunday of the month balls on Joseph Smith's birthday—Dec. 23.
Previous Sample Years: 1979 – a year in which the "Christmas" Sunday fell upon "Smithmas" – Joseph Smith's Dec. 23rd birthday Rameumptom, 2013 about 1979: "I recall the one Christmas Sacrament meeting during my mission (1979), when a member of the stake presidency spoke and said he wasn't going to talk about Jesus, who he said was not born in December, but in April.  So he talked about Joseph Smith. He [mis]quoted D&C 135 by saying "Joseph Smith has done more for the benefit of man than any other man in history". Our Sunday School Gospel Doctrine teacher, who was a school principal, had about a dozen teachers from his school he invited so they could see Mormons believe in Christ..."(p. 4) MormonDialogue.org Years like 2001 and 1979 intensify the tension between Mormons who want to focus on Joseph Smith vs. those who want to focus on Jesus Christ. Because no Christmas Day or Christmas Eve services are held in the Mormon Church unless those calendar days fall on a Sunday, then that fourth Sunday de facto becomes "the Christmas service." Tension then builds when that fourth Sunday of the month balls on Joseph Smith's birthday—Dec. 23.


TOPICS: Religion
KEYWORDS: josephsmith; lds; mormonism; smithmas
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From the article:

It’s three days to Christmas, 2008. And the Mormon Church-owned Deseret News is at it yet once again:

”In 1844, there were approximately 26,000 members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Yet, when W.W. Phelps penned a song of tribute to his beloved, fallen Prophet, he promised that ‘millions shall know Brother Joseph again’” [My note: The ‘song of tribute’ is an actual praise song directed TO Joseph Smith, ‘Praise to the Man’...for more on this, see Mormon Tabernacle Choir conductor: 'Praise to the Man'...hymn praises Joseph Smith [Smithmas vanity]]

The DesNews article continues:

"...Now known not only to the millions of members of the LDS Church, but also by countless more around the world, Joseph Smith has taken a unique and respected place in American and religious history...An advance copy of the CD was presented to President Thomas S. Monson...He reminisced about serving as a mission president in Toronto, ‘the only area outside his own, where Joseph Smith taught.’ He also noted that he's always appreciated the fact that Joseph Smith was born in the season in which we celebrate the birth of Christ...And at this season, he's happy that our thoughts can be drawn to Joseph Smith. ‘He gave us everything.’"

So the current Mormon "prophet" – three days before Christmas and one day before Joseph Smith's birthday – pronounces that Joseph Smith "gave us everything?"

What does that look like to the average non-Mormon?

Yup, that's right: Merry Smithmas!

1 posted on 12/22/2013 7:55:11 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: All
In case you've missed other FR postings this past week:
* D&c 325 Test #2 [Merry 'SMITHMAS!' BYU class says Joseph Smith is both 'Rod' and 'Root' of Jesse]
* 'First vision visitation' of LdsIsm trumps Jesus' incarnational visitation via Bethlehem [Vanity]
* Joseph Smith Nativity [A Virtual 'Merry Smithmas' 'Greeting Card' circa 2005]
* Mormon Tabernacle Choir conductor: 'Praise to the Man'...hymn praises Joseph Smith [Smithmas vanity]
* How would YOU score on this 26-question quiz about 'Smithmas?' [Vanity, Part A]
* What a Liturgical Order of Smithmas Sacrament Meeting Might look like! [Vanity, Part B]
* 'Twas the Night Before Smithmas! [WalterMartin.com]
2 posted on 12/22/2013 7:55:55 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

There’s so much hate here and I don’t understand why!/s


3 posted on 12/22/2013 7:58:03 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; me = independent conservative)
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To: Colofornian

Hey, here’s an idea for this holiday season of love and joy: How about YOU go to your church and worship as YOU see fit, and let others go to THEIR church and let them worship as THEY see fit.

Merry Christmas, and God Bless America.


4 posted on 12/22/2013 8:09:56 AM PST by Rebel_Ace (Tags?!? Tags?!? We don' neeeed no stinkin' Tags!)
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To: Colofornian

How about The Twelve Plates of Smithmas?


5 posted on 12/22/2013 8:10:25 AM PST by bigbob (The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly. Abraham Lincoln)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Agreed. Why not spend the time and effort exposing crazy muslim beliefs instead of those who share most of our values.


6 posted on 12/22/2013 8:16:46 AM PST by icwhatudo (Low taxes and less spending in Sodom and Gomorrah is not my idea of a conservative victory)
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To: icwhatudo; Jack Hydrazine

“Why not spend the time and effort exposing crazy muslim beliefs instead of those who share most of our values.”

The response will be that the mormons are working with the muslims.

I don’t believe the Mormon religion is Christian but there are far better ways to evangelize. This kind of garbage only pushes people away from our Savior Jesus.


7 posted on 12/22/2013 8:24:14 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Colofornian

Merry Christmas, Peace on Earth and Goodwill to Men to Colornian and the other Mormon haters here on FR


8 posted on 12/22/2013 8:25:08 AM PST by skyman
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To: Rebel_Ace; All
Hey, here’s an idea for this holiday season of love and joy: How about YOU go to your church and worship as YOU see fit, and let others go to THEIR church and let them worship as THEY see fit. Merry Christmas, and God Bless America.

Hey, here's an idea for this CHRISTMAS season of love and joy: How about YOU go to your thread and express as YOU see fit, and let others go to THEIR thread and let them express as THEY see fit. Merry Christmas, and, indeed, God Bless America.

There. Now how would you like somebody trying to curtail your First Amendment expressions on whatever thread you so desire?

9 posted on 12/22/2013 8:26:33 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Unhealthy obsession, I’d say, an obsessive compulsion to post the same thing over and over. . .while only changing the title of the thread.


10 posted on 12/22/2013 8:26:54 AM PST by Hulka
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To: skyman
I have Mormon relatives. They'd all tell you they receive my love of them just fine.

People who repeatedly object to Muslim tactics & doctrine aren't "Muslim haters."

And people who object to the homosexual agenda aren't "homosexual haters."

(Sounds to me like you've bought into too much of the liberal MSM spin on things)

11 posted on 12/22/2013 8:28:37 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Hulka
It's all different angles...and over half of the content of each new thread hasn't been posted before.

But hey, I know...some people aren't "detail oriented"...especially this time of the year.

12 posted on 12/22/2013 8:30:26 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

No, the vast majority of people just wont waste their precious time to read through the hate filled drivel which has been cut-n-pasted like all the other free speech you spout.


13 posted on 12/22/2013 8:57:44 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

See tag line...


14 posted on 12/22/2013 9:18:38 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Truth is hate to those who hate Truth)
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To: driftdiver

“I don’t believe the Mormon religion is Christian but there are far better ways to evangelize. This kind of garbage only pushes people away from our Savior Jesus.”

This is simply an opinion that ignores Scripture


15 posted on 12/22/2013 9:20:02 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Truth is hate to those who hate Truth)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Wild Bill for America says the same in this video commentary.

“Dancing with Ducks!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld9xKGKdxQU


16 posted on 12/22/2013 9:25:37 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; me = independent conservative)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Did you notice that those who responded to me didn’t notice the sarcasm tag? LOL!


17 posted on 12/22/2013 9:26:24 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; me = independent conservative)
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To: skyman

And a Merry Shizmas to you, too.

;^)


18 posted on 12/22/2013 9:36:42 AM PST by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

How so?


19 posted on 12/22/2013 9:37:57 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

I included the how so in post 15 - the opinion you posted ignores the plain words and example in Scripture. This means the opinion you posted is based on less than the whole truth of God’s revelation - making it a mere caricature, a distortion of truth, a falsehood.


20 posted on 12/22/2013 9:42:36 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Truth is hate to those who hate Truth)
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: driftdiver
Nobody's twisting your arm to be in the thread or read any article. Daily we pass up THOUSANDS of blogs & articles in the interest of reading/doing something else.

You don't offend me by moving along.

22 posted on 12/22/2013 9:49:33 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: driftdiver; aMorePerfectUnion; All
"Love rejoices in the truth" (1 Cor. 13:6)

Jesus' approach was essentially to comfort the afflicted; and afflict the comfortable.

The "latter" category was the legalistic Pharisees. Read John 8. Read Matthew 23.

There's no more religiously legalistic group around today than the Mormon Church.

23 posted on 12/22/2013 9:56:13 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Jack Hydrazine

:)


24 posted on 12/22/2013 9:56:59 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: icwhatudo; Jack Hydrazine; greyfoxx39; All
[To Jack] Agreed.

(You agree with a comment said with sarcasm? -- see Jack's post #17)

Why not spend the time and effort exposing crazy muslim beliefs instead of those who share most of our values.

#1...If I was going to share Muslim beliefs, the place not to find Muslims or Muslim readers would be FR.

#2a...Since when is polytheism a "value" shared by most FREEPERs? JR has plainly said this is a site devoted to "God"...not the 'gods' (plural) that Mormonism confesses they embrace.

#2b...Also many Mormons embrace polygamy for eternity -- serial monogamy on earth. Because of their belief that you can be sealed for eternity to a spouse, and that you can do that again when the first wife dies [or when the lst, 2nd & 3rd wife dies], then upon death you'll become a polygamist.

How many FREEPERs embrace the "values" of eternal polygamy?

#2c...RE: abortion, Mormonism says it's "OK" to have an abortion if the father was an incest perp who wants to cover up the rape of minor; or if the abortionist says it's "OK"; or if the "health" of the mom is effected; or if the Mormon god simply "says so" in an answer to prayer. How many FREEPERs embrace those kind of "values" where so many exceptions exist for dismembering next-of-kin in the womb?

25 posted on 12/22/2013 10:07:04 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Please name the hate.


26 posted on 12/22/2013 10:08:29 AM PST by svcw (Not 'hope and change' but 'dopes in chains')
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To: icwhatudo

Post a thread about that and ping us.


27 posted on 12/22/2013 10:09:17 AM PST by svcw (Not 'hope and change' but 'dopes in chains')
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To: svcw

Did you see my /s tag?


28 posted on 12/22/2013 10:13:32 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; me = independent conservative)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Obviously not, sorry.


29 posted on 12/22/2013 10:16:12 AM PST by svcw (Not 'hope and change' but 'dopes in chains')
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To: Rebel_Ace

hope you have your flame suit on…they don’t like to be told such a thing


30 posted on 12/22/2013 10:58:58 AM PST by Nifster
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To: Colofornian

the first amendment rights in our constitution are about GOVERNMENTAL interference with our God given rights. Your understanding of the constitution shows the same limitations that the rest of your logic exhibits


31 posted on 12/22/2013 11:01:49 AM PST by Nifster
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To: Colofornian

oh that isn’t even close to being accurate…..


32 posted on 12/22/2013 11:03:16 AM PST by Nifster
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

read about Paul and his travels in a polytheistic world… read his letters and advice about being a stumbling block as well as how to spread the gospel


33 posted on 12/22/2013 11:05:38 AM PST by Nifster
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To: Nifster
oh that isn’t even close to being accurate….

Be specific, if you're capable.

34 posted on 12/22/2013 11:15:11 AM PST by Anton.Rutter
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To: Rebel_Ace; All

“Hey, here’s an idea for this holiday season of love and joy: How about YOU go to your church and worship as YOU see fit, and let others go to THEIR church and let them worship as THEY see fit.”


Christianity isn’t a relativistic religion, nor do we rest when it comes to attacking false religious systems!

2Co 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.


35 posted on 12/22/2013 11:44:13 AM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: skyman

“Merry Christmas, Peace on Earth and Goodwill to Men to Colornian and the other Mormon haters here on FR”


Leave it to the Pro-Heresy brigade to make use of Liberal tactics.


36 posted on 12/22/2013 11:46:01 AM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: driftdiver; Colofornian

“No, the vast majority of people just wont waste their precious time to read through the hate filled drivel which has been cut-n-pasted like all the other free speech you spout.”


Evidently you took the time to read it, and have posted several times decrying it, despite expressing how insignificant and worthless it is.

So, are you a member of the LDS? Or maybe a Jehovah’s Witness? If you’re a Christian, why doesn’t it bother you that the members of the LDS are being deceived by a destructive religious cult?

I think it was Spurgeon (I could be wrong) who said that if you do not have a passion for the lost, a desire to expose sin, a yearning to bring all men before the beloved seat of Christ, then that individual is no Christian.


37 posted on 12/22/2013 11:48:55 AM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Nifster

Oh, those things are there - but that is not the whole truth.

A half truth, as your post expresses, is a falsehood - and as such, simply opinion.


38 posted on 12/22/2013 12:08:52 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Truth is hate to those who hate Truth)
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It’s very obvious that the hate here is coming from those who cannot provide information to rebut the proof of the falseness of the mormon sect but can only spew hate towards the messengers.


39 posted on 12/22/2013 12:20:25 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (We can thank Mitt Romney for the present situation in our country. His feet are made of clay.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Apparently you also disagree with the methods of the southern baptist convention then. Its about bringing people to Christ, not your personal ego and proving people are wrong with a bat.

Merry Christmas


40 posted on 12/22/2013 12:33:29 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

I believe you have mischaracterized the methods of the SBC - though in the end, the SBC is NOT the standard of Christian truth. It is the Bible.

Let me rephrase your post to be more clear in words you understand...

“Apparently you also disagree with the methods of the Apostle Paul, the Apostle John, the Apostle Peter, God the Father and the Savior Jesus Christ then. Its about bringing people to Christ and clearly opposing error that perverts the nature of God and the Gospel of Grace, not about your personal preferences about which parts of the Bible you like best.”

I also wish you a Merry Christmas.


41 posted on 12/22/2013 1:02:40 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Truth is hate to those who hate Truth)
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To: Nifster; aMorePerfectUnion; All
read about Paul and his travels in a polytheistic world… read his letters and advice about being a stumbling block as well as how to spread the gospel

Yes, read it...Read passages like Acts 17:16: 16 While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols.

Tell us Nifster...Since the Mormons are polytheistic...are you, too, "greatly distressed" about Mormonism's polytheism -- like Paul was about the polytheistic people he encountered on Mars Hill?

Or are you lethargic? Apathetic? Lukewarm? "Tolerant?" Pluralistic? Spiritually libertarian?

42 posted on 12/22/2013 1:15:30 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; Rebel_Ace; All

Yes...see also 3 John 9-10


43 posted on 12/22/2013 1:16:34 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

” If you’re a Christian, why doesn’t it bother you that the members of the LDS are being deceived by a destructive religious cult?”

Maybe they aren’t being deceived. Maybe they know nothing about the wacked-out stuff. I had a Mormon uncle-in-law and he was only vaguely familiar with the rituals. Of course, he didn’t live closely enough to a LDS ward to attend.
Remember, most of you know vastly more than the average Mormon. They only hear what they are told.


44 posted on 12/22/2013 1:24:34 PM PST by AppyPappy (Obama: What did I not know and when did I not know it?)
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To: AppyPappy; Greetings_Puny_Humans; All
Remember, most of you know vastly more than the average Mormon. They only hear what they are told.

Good point

45 posted on 12/22/2013 1:27:24 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Joseph Smith ‘gave us everything’
____________________________________________

but Joseph Smith never loved us so anything he might have given was mere dross and useless and brought death...

God on the other hand LOVED us and GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON that whosoever believed in Him would not perish but have EVERLASTING LIFE John 3:16

Joseph Smith V God


46 posted on 12/22/2013 1:36:27 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: driftdiver

This kind of garbage only pushes people away from our Savior Jesus.
_________________________________________

The Mormons have nothing to do with the LORD Jesus Christ or Christianity...

Mormonism is based on Mohammad and Islam, not Christianity...

In 1838 Joseph Smith wanted to be a second Mohammad, not a Paul..

Smith even dissed the LORD Jesus Christ as lass than he was...

That’s not calling Him Lord..

BTW Hinckley himself said Mormons don’t worship the Jesus Christ of the Christians...

and the other day in a thread one of the converted Mormons informed us that he didn’t believe in Christianity...

So there you have it little grasshopper...

right from the Mormons themselves...

one a dead Mormon so called “prophet” and one a present day Joseph Smith devotee...


47 posted on 12/22/2013 1:51:35 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana; All
Joseph Smith ‘gave us everything’
____________________________________________
but Joseph Smith never loved us so anything he might have given was mere dross and useless and brought death... God on the other hand LOVED us and GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON that whosoever believed in Him would not perish but have EVERLASTING LIFE John 3:16

Indeed. Praise His Holy Name!

(This is what happens tho when Joseph Smith is presented by a cult as being THE filter...THE mousetrap...thru which all flows...For more on this insight, see:
* 'First vision visitation' of LdsIsm trumps Jesus' incarnational visitation via Bethlehem [Vanity])

48 posted on 12/22/2013 2:00:56 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: svcw

did you know that the only time someone hated me and my belief in the LORD Jesus Christ enough to demand that my boss fire me was the time I met up with a mormon for the first time ???

Why do mormons hate us Christians ???

BTW after 6 weeks of Hell from that mormon who acted like she hated me on sight she was the one to leave not me..

She had destroyed my personal belongings, and turned other workers against me and done other evil..

I was 19 and had never met up with anyone like her before ...apparently its a Mormon behavior..

All I could do was cry and asked God for help it was so bewildering...

She had been attempting to proselytize our boss and after she was gone my boss showed me all the books and pamphlets and info about the cult Mormonism and urged me never to join them..that Mormonism was a cult..

she explained all the mormon had devolved to my boss over the 6 weeks she had been working there and I saw the book of mormon for the first time and heard the story of Joseph Smith..which was strange and unbiblical..

Having been a Christian since I was 8 and brought up in a Bible believing Christian family and read the Bible for myself, I recognized that mormonism was not aligned with the LORD Jesus Christ or the Bible or Christianity but was something alien and false..

I was fortunate and blessed that God revealed the ugliness and falsity of mormonism to me that one afternoon..

I learnt more that day in 1968 about mormonism than the average mormon is taught in years of indoctrination..

It always pays to read the Bible for yourself so that you can be armed and protected with the truth and recognize the lies of the devil when they are presented..

and condemn them as enmity with the Living God...

Mormonism is evil and a false religion...

Mormonism is not Christianity..

and has nothing to do with the LORD Jesus Christ..


49 posted on 12/22/2013 2:14:21 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

No I have not “mischaracterized the methods of the SBC”.

When they teach Christians to evangelize they teach us to speak the truth of the Bible, God and of course Jesus with love.

Speaking with love softens hearts. Speak with anger or a heavy hand hardens hearts. Of course its not a simple exercise when faced with non-believers or people with lots of anger in their hearts.


50 posted on 12/22/2013 2:27:18 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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