Skip to comments.One in five ‘brain dead’ patients still alive, claims lawsuit
Posted on 01/03/2014 6:34:06 PM PST by Marie
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Bravo Marie! You state a position for parents and the family unit, funny how so called “conservatives” here on FR are all for govt and hospital admin having the right to call the shots. This is not a position that supports the family.
It is so odd that we have gone from a society that lauds the story of Helen Keller, yet would condemn her to death or nothingness today. I thank the Lord for my Great-great Grandmother... when my Grandmother was born, very badly deformed by the breach birth and not able to breast feed... the doctor said he could do nothing and the child would die. My GG Grandmother worked on her limbs and fed her by hand and she began to thrive and live. My Grandmother had four children of her own and I am the child of her oldest son. Had this farm woman who cared so much to nurse this child not done so, many generations would have never existed in our family. She knew she could nurse this child as she would nurse any newly born calf or lamb who would need the same.... She also had great faith that God would help her through. There was a time when we had faith and now we only worship authority and those who call themselves educated and qualified to make these decisions... I call them educated IDIOTS... learned that from my Dad... he was right.
Thank you, ACC.
That attitude about this case here on FR just makes me heavy. I miss the prayer warriors and the people who’d defend the to life, to self-determination, and parental rights until death.
OMG.. yes... the prayer warriors! I miss them too! We can be those prayer warriors...
Did you read the article or the poster’s story. What if you are wrong? It ain’t over until it’s over. See my other post about my Mom. We had the turn the respirator off conversation about 6 hours before she woke up.
Yes, I’m beginning to think that our current science on “life” can be very inaccurate much of the time. That seems to be proven over time with changing “science of today” as to mean not yesterday’s junk science! All things keep changing and yet those of us living today keep claiming that “science” says ..... Maybe it is really time to question all of science and many of the other things that are deemed facts these days.
Whoda thunk it?
On a more serious note, prayers for Jahi and her family.
Do you want one of commander zero's peeps deciding whether your life is worth living?
I think not.
No one ever said this quandary was an easy one with a simple and fair solution....if it was we’d have a solution by now. My take on the matter is basically you can have all the high tech medical wonders administered to you and yours that you desire.....if you can pay for it. Anything else is fundamentally unfair, fundamentally socialism.
You touched my heart today.
Just offering this up as a bit of balance - My wife is an RN and worked in an ICU for 11 years. She has told me countless stories of lifeless bodies on vents literally rotting away. The families refuse to allow the vents to be removed, but few come to visit. Removing the vent would stop the monthly checks from coming in. My wife had to finally move to a new department, she could not stand to see the cruelty people are capable of by not letting the dead go.
and what if you are wrong?? you give irrational hope to those who are already struggling with grief . that is cruel beyond all belief.
you confuse medical situations that are not at all comparable.
are you personally ready to foot the bill for this girl’s care and will you have her in your own home to do so because right now she is taking up valuable space in a working facility
Hospitals harvest parts from living persons without anesthesia.
You can’t sell the parts but they sure will.
I am not confusing anything, as each life is unique and the circumstances surrounding that life are unique.
The grief happens whether or not the girl is released to her parents. They are very aware that the prognosis is grim and that she is gravely ill. They are leaving room for a miracle, basically. And their grief is happening in the context of their faith and their understanding of the Lord at work in their circumstances.
30 years ago we would not be having this argument, as the value of human life - any human life - was not questioned and hospitals weren’t constantly forced into (or choosing) an economic rather than a Hippocratic model.
Would I take her into my home - I am not able because I am the sole support of my household. Would I contribute to her care - you bet.
I had an adult foster care home for several years and humans, even old, very ill or dying humans, do not “take up valuable space”. They are each uniquely created, infinitely valuable. As with my elderly residents, God knew this little girl before her birth and He knows the course of her life before she was even born.
The question is, will we extend grace and mercy and the benefit of the doubt to her and her parents or not? Believe it or not, science is still an art and doesn’t know all the answers. What do you believe and what do you value?
If you are a Christian, I would suggest you look up the story of the little girl and Lazarus, both were dead before Christ intervened. It ain’t over until the Lord says it’s over, or even then.
As it says in 1st Thessalonians:13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
Thanks for posting your story.
She lives with paralysis and a lot of pain. Some days she is angry at me for not letting her go. Most days shes glad.
Your wife is blessed to have a husband who loves her so much.
30 years ago this girl would not have been put on a ventilator.
You may be right, I might have to go to a time 40 years ago to see actions that are much different. Some time after I graduated from high school - 70’s -, a friend of mine was sitting in the back of a pickup while out hunting with his family. The pickup hit a bump and he was thrown out of the pickup and landed on his head.
Brian had a catastrophic brain injury, but was put on a ventilator for a week until his parents realized it was time to let him go. Needless to say, there were no doctors calling Brian dead or trying to force the removal of the ventilator. Had they wanted to take Brian home, there would have been no argument.
The only low-cost major HMO based largely on an economic model/efficiency/law of large numbers was Kaiser in our area at that time (Brian wasn’t insured there). As hospitals and insurance carriers have moved further toward an economic model for medicine, there has been more pressure on profitability.
Medicare DRG’s came into affect in the early 80’s (reimbursing at the cost of an average stroke/heart attack/pneumonia - financial incentive to discharge people from the hospital when they were still very ill), and making profitability problematic for doctors/hospitals that kept the patient until they were ready. After that, more and more pressure was made toward preferred providers and pre-approved, appropriate tests and treatments, with reimbursement rates controlled by insurance carriers, Medicare and Medicaid.
There is also upward pressure on expenses due to purchase of the latest/greatest medical technology and class action suits by opportunistic attorneys.
Last but not least, personal success and satisfaction is largely the measure of the rightness of action - rather than personal sacrifice and doing what is right.
These are a generalization, of course. There are many fine doctors and hospitals, but medicine is often practiced for primarily personal/financial rather than altruistic reasons or a desire to serve.
This little girl is going to prove to be expensive, her parents aren’t following the godlike hospital point of view, and the hospital and their doctors want her out of their hair as quickly and as cheaply as possible.
“ .the hospital and their doctors want her out of their hair as quickly and as cheaply as possible.”
I was with you until there . This is not true. I know Children’s in Oakland and it is one of the finest staff and facilities around.
Look independent docs picked by the family have said their is NO brain activity. The docs at Children’s have said their is NO brain activity. This is NOT a case of ‘persistent’ vegetative state that represents heart break for the family but still has life associated with the individual. The doctors have declared her dead. Remove her from the ventilator and all mechanical means of assistance (that were put in place because of the lawyer involvement). This young girl is long gone. My heart aches for the family. My head spins at some of the families arguments as well as those here at FR.
Trust me when I tell you there is not much money in being a doc ( or a nurse for that matter). California teachers earn more than most nurses. Docs have to be for their malpractice insurance, the office staff and their insurance, the cost of facilities, and their education. The net that a doc walks away with is not that stunning. The big numbers you here of are usually those hired by the government (local, state, or fed). Private practice (group wise because solo practise is almost unheard of anymore) just isn’t that lucrative
I do know that doctors aren’t rolling in money, nor are hospitals. It’s going to be a good deal worse as Obamacare begins affecting them.
What ticked me off initially is it was reported that the hospital refused to allow whatever was necessary to move the little girl and were, allegedly, taking the moral high ground that it would be awful if they allowed a medical procedure “on a dead person”. They have since relented with a court’s encouragement. If the reporting is true, and that’s a big if, they have been considerably less than empathetic or appropriate with the family.
I do not doubt, from your info, that these are capable people. But bone deep what they want to do is to heal people and once healing is out of the question, some lose patience. I saw it a lot when I worked with frail seniors. That’s one of the reasons for hospice - a whole ‘nother conversation.
So we’re kind of in the same place for the most part. PAX and Happy New Years to you and yours.
I’m so glad you have done so well, and your mom didn’t give up on you! You are a great contribution to our society, Marie.
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