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Female Marine Pullup Failure Doesnít Mean Women Arenít Strong
The Federalist ^ | JANUARY 3, 2014 | Mollie Hemingway

Posted on 01/04/2014 2:41:29 PM PST by nickcarraway

More than half of female Marines in boot camp can't do three pullups, the minimum standard that was supposed to take effect with the new year, prompting the Marine Corps to delay the requirement, part of the process of equalizing physical standards to integrate women into combat jobs.

The delay rekindled sharp debate in the military on the question of whether women have the physical strength for some military jobs, as service branches move toward opening thousands of combat roles to them in 2016. Beginning this week, all female Marines were supposed to be able to do at least three pullups on their annual physical fitness test and eight for a perfect score. Men have the same minimum requirement but need 20 for a perfect score. The previous minimum standard for women was a timed flexed-arm hang. The new requirement was tested on female recruits at Parris Island last year but only 45 percent of women could do even three.

Now, some might say that this proves women aren’t strong. Hogwash. Women are very strong. To give just one important example, more than 100 million women give birth each and every year. It is an impressive feat of strength. Women also nurse their babies, which is fraught with problems ranging from mastitis to thrush. Women display physical strength in many ways, from athletic prowess to working jobs requiring them to be on their feet all day.

And it doesn’t prove that men are physically superior in every way. To given just one unimportant example, some large percentage of men have such a hard time dealing with the common cold that fantastic comedy sketches are written about it. (“For God’s sake, woman, he’s a man, he’s got a man cold!”)

But to state the obvious, by which I mean I’m about to say something extremely controversial, the average female is not as strong in the upper-body region as the average man. (Again: Please don’t demand I be written out of polite society for noting this truth that was universally acknowledged until roughly 15 minutes ago.) Even at my Crossfit gym, which is full of freakishly strong humans of both sexes, the men routinely outperform the women. And one of the things I love about my gym is that everyone is simply encouraged to do their work to the best of their ability.

So the problem with the fact that most female Marine recruits aren’t meeting even the minimum requirement for upper-body strength isn’t that women aren’t strong. In fact, the problem is not even that men and women have different physical strengths.

The problem is that we are all supposed to pretend that men and women are identical. It doesn’t help men, women, children or the institutions they inhabit to pretend natural differences don’t exist. And here, it’s actually dangerous. We may have forgotten in our rush to drone warfare what actual combat entails. It’s grueling and requires tremendous physical and mental strength and discipline.

Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos wants training officials to “continue to gather data and ensure that female Marines are provided with the best opportunity to succeed,” according to a statement from the Marines. The Associated Press then goes on to characterize the truth that “pullups require the muscular strength necessary to perform common military tasks such as scaling a wall, climbing up a rope or lifting and carrying heavy munitions” simply as a “belief” held by the Marine Corps. I wonder where they got that crazy idea. I mean, I can’t scale a wall or climb a rope but I’ve noticed that everyone at my gym who can do these things can also do a pullup. Or 20 pullups. One can read these statements and the backtracking on pullup requirements as a precursor to watering down the skills required to be effective in a Marine combat situation. The story states that if the military decides to keep some positions closed to women, they must explain why.

Success for women should not mean being viewed, contrary to reality, as interchangeable with men in all things. Men and women are both strong but strong in very different ways, both of which contribute mightily to human flourishing.


TOPICS: Health/Medicine; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: dumbingcombatdown; irony; marines; satire; womenincombat
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1 posted on 01/04/2014 2:41:29 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

No no no no no no no....

And going swimming doesn’t mean you are going to get wet.


2 posted on 01/04/2014 2:44:17 PM PST by Mr. K (If you like your constitution, you can keep it...Period.)
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To: nickcarraway

I don’t think anyone ever said women are not “strong.” I am sure most, if not all, men could not stand the pain of childbirth (although many women are foregoing that these days — who knows what the long-term implications of THAT are).

BUT women are not strong WHERE IT COUNTS when on the battlefield.

Leaving her buddy to die (or dying with him/her) because of PC is a pretty awful ending.


3 posted on 01/04/2014 2:45:09 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Fight Tapinophobia in all its forms! Do not submit to arduus privilege.)
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To: nickcarraway
"Separate but equal?"



America demands Justice for the Fallen of Benghazi!

O stranger, tell the Lacedaemonians that we lie here, obedient to their command.

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. (Isaiah 49:1 KJV)

4 posted on 01/04/2014 2:47:00 PM PST by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines RVN 1969 - St. Mlichael the Archangel defend us in Battle!)
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To: nickcarraway
Female Marine Pullup Failure Doesn’t Mean Women Aren’t Strong

Ya, they beat up men all the time on TV....

And cold weather means the planet is warming up.

5 posted on 01/04/2014 2:48:25 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: nickcarraway
Even at my Crossfit gym, which is full of freakishly strong humans of both sexes, the men routinely outperform the women.

Liar!

6 posted on 01/04/2014 2:50:23 PM PST by raybbr (I weep over my sons' future in this Godforsaken country.)
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To: nickcarraway

It’s gravity’s fault.


7 posted on 01/04/2014 2:50:54 PM PST by EEGator
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To: freedumb2003

This author confuses tough with strength.


8 posted on 01/04/2014 2:52:34 PM PST by EEGator
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To: nickcarraway

If at 200 lb person is upstairs overcome with smoke in a house fire, we should all hope a woman fireperson arrives on scene to carry them out...

yuk yuk...


9 posted on 01/04/2014 2:53:32 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: nickcarraway
Oh, Mollie must go to the gym everyday...


10 posted on 01/04/2014 2:53:38 PM PST by raybbr (I weep over my sons' future in this Godforsaken country.)
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To: nickcarraway

Pull! Pull, Pyle, Pull! One Pull Up, Pyle!

11 posted on 01/04/2014 2:53:52 PM PST by DemforBush (Ice cream, Mandrake? Children's ice cream?)
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To: nickcarraway

When it comes specifically to doing pull-ups, yes. Yes it does.


12 posted on 01/04/2014 2:54:54 PM PST by servo1969
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To: nickcarraway
"Now, some might say that this proves women aren’t strong. Hogwash."

LOL.

But it does prove they can't do a pull up.

This is really pretty stupid.

13 posted on 01/04/2014 2:55:46 PM PST by MV=PY (The Magic Question: Who's paying for it?)
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To: nickcarraway
To give just one important example, more than 100 million women give birth each and every year.

Wow, those 100 million women will get worn out after 50 or 60 years of giving birth!
14 posted on 01/04/2014 2:56:22 PM PST by Dr. Sivana (Five years, my brain hurts a lot.)
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To: raybbr
Even at my Crossfit gym, which is full of freakishly strong humans of both sexes, the men routinely outperform the women. Liar!

Boy, did I read that wrong. This piece doesn't make any statement. She, like most pundits today, equivocates her topic to the point the piece is pointless.

15 posted on 01/04/2014 2:56:33 PM PST by raybbr (I weep over my sons' future in this Godforsaken country.)
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To: nickcarraway

Gee, she’s comparing apples and oranges. Childbirth has nothing to do with battlefield survival.


16 posted on 01/04/2014 2:56:48 PM PST by RginTN
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To: nickcarraway

So the new standard of strength is giving birth and nursing someone?

A person (male or female) who cannot pull his or her own weight up is W-E-A-K!

I almost puked when I read the part about women being strong because many are on their feet all day. Marines have to be on their feet all day where all day may literally be all 24 hours of a day and part of the next standing while marching and fighting. Strength tests for Marines must be based on strength required in combat.

Frankly, women should stick to giving birth and nursing babies.


17 posted on 01/04/2014 2:57:14 PM PST by MIchaelTArchangel (Have a wonderful day!)
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To: MV=PY

I think woman should be allowed to compete in male professional boxing matches...

yuk yuk


18 posted on 01/04/2014 2:57:44 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

Why aren’t women allowed in the NFL??

They’d do so well...


19 posted on 01/04/2014 2:58:45 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: ConorMacNessa

Semper Fi, Brother. Been wanting to say that for a while.


20 posted on 01/04/2014 2:59:52 PM PST by real saxophonist (The revolution will not be televised. Everything else will.)
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To: MV=PY

The article is quite comical. Apparently the author thinks dealing with pain makes one strong. All this time I’ve been using intelligent programming in the gym with progressive overload. From now on, I’ll just bash my shins and junk, then call it a day.


21 posted on 01/04/2014 3:00:24 PM PST by EEGator
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To: dragnet2

http://msn.foxsports.com/ufc/story/rousey-i-can-beat-up-cain-velasquez-110613


22 posted on 01/04/2014 3:01:30 PM PST by EEGator
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To: RginTN

“Childbirth has nothing to do with battlefield survival.”

I know, that was such a stupid thing to say. OK, so no men can be birth mothers....but we knew that!

And the breastfeeding? It may need some physical stamina (I gave it up PDQ, my child was not getting enough nourishment and I hated it) but “strength” no.


23 posted on 01/04/2014 3:02:42 PM PST by jocon307
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To: nickcarraway

Good lord.

Did any of you people READ the article past the second paragraph?

She’s on our side, for pete’s sake. She’s saying that men and women are different, and are physically strong in different ways.

The money quote, for those of you who can’t be bothered to read past the headline:

“The Associated Press then goes on to characterize the truth that “pullups require the muscular strength necessary to perform common military tasks such as scaling a wall, climbing up a rope or lifting and carrying heavy munitions” simply as a “belief” held by the Marine Corps. I wonder where they got that crazy idea. I mean, I can’t scale a wall or climb a rope but I’ve noticed that everyone at my gym who can do these things can also do a pullup. Or 20 pullups.”


24 posted on 01/04/2014 3:03:02 PM PST by Terabitten (I'd rather have one Walker than fourteen runners.)
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To: EEGator

If they put her in the ring with a male pro boxer/fighter/MMA, she’d be killed....

Of course, then they’d really wanna ban the sport as it would make them all liars and idiots.


25 posted on 01/04/2014 3:04:23 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: nickcarraway

The AP nailed it—In modern warfare, fought from computer terminals, it’s ridiculous to assume that Marines will ever have to scale walls, climb ropes, or lift and carry heavy munitions.

It’s all a misogynistic plot.


26 posted on 01/04/2014 3:06:43 PM PST by Arm_Bears (Refuse; Resist; Rebel; Revolt!)
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To: Terabitten

bttt


27 posted on 01/04/2014 3:09:24 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: Arm_Bears

lol...


28 posted on 01/04/2014 3:10:14 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: nickcarraway

This is just silly. Even if a woman could do three pullups, that doesn’t make her strong. Three pullups is nothing for a fit man. A man who can only do three pullups is weak.

The average Marine combat load is 70+ pounds of body armor, weapons, ammo and other gear. There are virtually no women who can carry that weight and then perform to even minimal combat standards. If there are more than a handful in the Corps who could do so without quickly sustaining serious injury, let alone do so while picking up and carrying a wounded soldier any amount of distance, I’d be shocked.


29 posted on 01/04/2014 3:10:54 PM PST by Sparticus (Tar and feathers for the next dumb@ss Republican that uses the word bipartisanship.)
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To: nickcarraway

Let’s just make all female Marines Generals when the take the Oath before they even begin Basic Training. Problem solved.


30 posted on 01/04/2014 3:13:52 PM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Did the ancients know they were ancients? Or did they see themselves as presents?)
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To: nickcarraway

No, it just means that in combat they aren’t near as good as men.


31 posted on 01/04/2014 3:14:12 PM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: nickcarraway
Cindy...grab the ammo...can't...too heavy for me.

Cindy grab Jim...Can't...too heavy.

Never mind Cindy. I'll carry Jim and Joe and the ammo. Just grab the coffee pot...

32 posted on 01/04/2014 3:14:41 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Arm_Bears

Look, we see woman on TV and in the movies throwing men twice their size around like rag dolls...

We’ve learned from Hollywood, most men are bed wetting fat wimps with IQ’s of dumb puppies...

So there ya have it.


33 posted on 01/04/2014 3:15:11 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: nickcarraway
Now, some might say that this proves women aren’t strong. Hogwash. Women are very strong. To give just one important example, more than 100 million women give birth each and every year. It is an impressive feat of strength. Women also nurse their babies, which is fraught with problems ranging from mastitis to thrush. Women display physical strength in many ways, from athletic prowess to working jobs requiring them to be on their feet all day.

Just imagine the war applications there!

I'm not getting anything.

34 posted on 01/04/2014 3:15:35 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: nickcarraway
Project Lioness: Lioness presents the untold story of the first group of women soldiers in US history to be sent into direct ground combat, in violation of official policy. Told through intimate accounts, journal excerpts, archive footage, as well as interviews with military commanders, the film follows five women who served together for a year in Iraq. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1202749/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1202749/
35 posted on 01/04/2014 3:17:00 PM PST by onona (The Earth is the insane asylum for the universe (yup, I belong))
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To: freedumb2003

Right. That was her point.


36 posted on 01/04/2014 3:17:57 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Women don't play football 'cause 11 of them 'd never wear the same outfit in public. Phyllis Diller)
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To: nickcarraway

rationalizing failure


37 posted on 01/04/2014 3:17:59 PM PST by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
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To: onona

You suck.


38 posted on 01/04/2014 3:18:17 PM PST by onona (The Earth is the insane asylum for the universe (yup, I belong))
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To: nickcarraway; freedumb2003
BUT women are not strong WHERE IT COUNTS when on the battlefield.

I LOVE women. I am a heterosexual 66 year old man.

I am glad I am a man.

I would hate to go through a monthly menstruation cycle, with accompanying cramps and bleeding. I wouldn't want to share a tent or foxhole with one that is going through that.

When a man and a woman have that first time "in the sack", it is the woman that experiences pain and discomfort, and we men can just lay back and think how great it was. I wouldn't want the temptation around me on the battlefield.

I doubt I could withstand the pain of childbirth. I don't like to stub my toe. I don't want my battlefield partner getting pregnant so she can go home.

I fathered four children, but the mom is the "go to" when our children have a problem and need a little nurturing. We dads are supposed to be the disciplinarians, and feared (I realize that is not a universal truth).

I would never want to rely on a woman on the battlefield. I am 5'10" and at my prime was around 165 lbs. A 110-120lb. woman could likely not remove my body, whether I am dead or alive.

I love women. My wife is now also my business partner. She can do things I can't do, and has many useful skills. BUT, she always calls on me for lifting the heavy stuff!

39 posted on 01/04/2014 3:19:02 PM PST by WVKayaker ("Today, doesn't it seem like we have a Corrupt Bastards Club in D.C.? On steroids?" -Sarah Palin)
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To: EEGator
Actually, the author is criticizing those who confuse tough with strength.

She shares your point of view.

40 posted on 01/04/2014 3:19:59 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Women don't play football 'cause 11 of them 'd never wear the same outfit in public. Phyllis Diller)
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To: dragnet2

She has since changed her public tune on that one. I think the UFC told her to knock it off. She wound up saying that it would look bad for a guy to be pummeling a woman...I agree.


41 posted on 01/04/2014 3:20:24 PM PST by EEGator
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To: MV=PY

I suspect you don’t realize she’s agreeing with you.


42 posted on 01/04/2014 3:21:17 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Women don't play football 'cause 11 of them 'd never wear the same outfit in public. Phyllis Diller)
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To: Terabitten

I was wondering if I had read a different article than the other posters. lol


43 posted on 01/04/2014 3:22:01 PM PST by ozaukeemom (Is there even a republic left?)
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To: RginTN

THAT'S HER POOOIIIIINNNNNTTT!


44 posted on 01/04/2014 3:22:51 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Women don't play football 'cause 11 of them 'd never wear the same outfit in public. Phyllis Diller)
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To: nickcarraway

Google “youtube Marine M777 fire for effect” and watch those Marines put ten rounds down range in slightly over 2 minutes and tell me upper body strength doesn’t count. Watch any arty fire for effect. Watch any real life video of Marines dragging wounded and tell me strength doesn’t count.

Tankers were always the biggest guys in the regiment, not because they could carry their work out equipment on the tank, but because they had some heavy, heavy work to do.

An army general recently said that the days of Rambo are over. My dying butt. Watch these guys kicking in doors, hauling ammo, humping heavy loads. IT MATTERS!

I will never forget how much that stuff kicked my butt. Never lessen the standards, if anything, make them tougher.


45 posted on 01/04/2014 3:22:52 PM PST by rey
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To: Terabitten

You are quite correct! It’s actually a great article and I agree with her entirely. I live near Camp Lejeune MCB and I know from the local news stories that three women did actually successfully graduate from the infantry program. They obviously made it through boot camp since they are stationed aboard Camp Lejeune.


46 posted on 01/04/2014 3:22:52 PM PST by srmorton (Deut. 30 19: "..I have set before you life and death,....therefore, choose life..")
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To: nickcarraway
Now, some might say that this proves women aren’t strong. Hogwash. Women are very strong. To give just one important example, more than 100 million women give birth each and every year. It is an impressive feat of strength...

Methinks Mollie Hemingway doesn't quite grasp that the definition of "strong" depends on context.
Her dishonesty in conflating the many definitions, and tapdancing around or (ignoring) the specific "strength" being addressed, made her entire opinion rather useless.

Yes, I admit that in tests of physical strength requiring "work" in the physics sense, there are many women stronger than I but that does not make rendering a physical strength standard useless in certain professions and applications because it's not politically correct.

47 posted on 01/04/2014 3:23:14 PM PST by publius911 ( At least Nixon had the good g race to resign!)
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To: EEGator

The woman must be a nutbar, or is an attention whore...If she ever climbed into an MMA ring with a pro male fighter, they’d be calling the coroner to remove her body..


48 posted on 01/04/2014 3:23:55 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Terabitten; nickcarraway
Thank you, Terabitten.

Yow, we've got some irony-challenged people here.


But I'm always having to remind myself, "Restrain yourself. Do not try irony. Do not even attempt it. It is absolutely NOT worth the frustration..."
49 posted on 01/04/2014 3:27:57 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Women don't play football 'cause 11 of them 'd never wear the same outfit in public. Phyllis Diller)
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To: Arm_Bears
The AP nailed it—In modern warfare, fought from computer terminals, it’s ridiculous to assume that Marines will ever have to scale walls, climb ropes, or lift and carry heavy munitions.

Until 100% of all wars can be fought on computer terminals, that is a profoundly stupid statement.
Google Jessica Lynch.

50 posted on 01/04/2014 3:32:02 PM PST by publius911 ( At least Nixon had the good g race to resign!)
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