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Propane Vs. Kerosene Backup Heating ?
vainty ^

Posted on 01/06/2014 12:27:07 PM PST by virgil283

Advise for back up heat for house...kerosene or propane ? Price vs BTU output ...other ?


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Education
KEYWORDS: backupheating; doomage; heater; polarvortex
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Price vs BTU output ? about the same?

Bulk Kero [my container] is $4.95 gal here vs prop. $19 refill of 20 lbs tank

Is propane cleaner for indoor use?

Smell of either?

kerosene heaters seem to have issues with the wick [uneven, smoke, needs burn off] ?...

propane hazards?

using a hose to outside propane tank

needs fire proof surface to stand on?

need to crack a window?

what size for say 1000 sqft ?

breathing fumes from unvented heater?

any experienced advice is welcomed...{can't cut holes in roof or walls.]

1 posted on 01/06/2014 12:27:07 PM PST by virgil283
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To: virgil283

I’m VERY interested in this myself; thanks for posting this thread.


2 posted on 01/06/2014 12:28:41 PM PST by mlizzy ("If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic Adoration, abortion would be ended." --Mother Teresa)
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To: mlizzy

Kerosene heaters can be a bit smelly. Plus, an advantage of propane is, if you have a fair amount of fuel left after a mild winter, you can use it up in your gas grill.


3 posted on 01/06/2014 12:30:03 PM PST by dirtboy
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To: virgil283

Whichever you use, only use a heater indoors rated for indoor use.

http://www.mrheater.com/product.aspx?catid=41&id=116


4 posted on 01/06/2014 12:31:24 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: virgil283

http://www.ehow.com/about_6560608_propane-vs_-kerosene-heaters.html

for my situation propane is better because kerosene is hard to find. And I can always use the propane for something else.


5 posted on 01/06/2014 12:32:42 PM PST by dblshot (I am John Galt.)
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To: virgil283

Note for the heater I linked above:

This heater requires a vent area of 18 square inches
(example 4 1/4” x 4 1/4” opening) minimum for adequate
ventilation during operation.


6 posted on 01/06/2014 12:33:45 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: virgil283

No comparison. Propane all the way. Propane is easier to store and will basically last forever. Ever burn a kerosene space heater? They’re sooty, they smell, and they suck all the oxygen out of the room.

Propane is cleaner burning, although of course, it emits deadly CO2 gas and will kill, but it is easier to manage than with a kerosene burner.


7 posted on 01/06/2014 12:34:14 PM PST by Obadiah (I Like Ted.)
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To: mlizzy
A friend installed a unvented nat. gas heater, a three tile wall hung, but later reading the owners manual discovered it was NOT to be used for more than four hour straight because of nitrite emissions....
8 posted on 01/06/2014 12:34:33 PM PST by virgil283 (When the sun spins, the cross appears, and the skies burn red)
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To: virgil283

When I lived in the mountains, we had a propane tank outside. Truck came to fill it now and then. It did not smell, it gave wonderful heat, we never had a problem, seemed cheap enough. For what it’s worth.


9 posted on 01/06/2014 12:34:38 PM PST by bboop (does not suffer fools gladly)
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To: virgil283; NoCmpromiz
I have a little propane heater that's 10,000 BTU's. Set on 2, I use a 20lber in 5 days. If it gets as cold as it has been it burns it even faster because you have to turn it up to keep it at 60 by my desk. It's not in an enclosed space. It has no smell as it burns. Actually odor is added so if you smell propane you have a leak. You need copper tubing to connect to an outside tank.

A large kerosene heater needs filling about every 12 hours and it can have an odor but it cranks out more heat.

10 posted on 01/06/2014 12:36:18 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (The Fed Gov is not one ring to rule them all)
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To: virgil283

I have both, propane torpedo requires power and doesn’t smell.
Kerosene is a good heater, when we lost power, I cooked on the top of it and even made coffee. Very safe and little smell.


11 posted on 01/06/2014 12:37:05 PM PST by The Mayor (Honesty means never having to look over your shoulder.)
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To: virgil283

I have a Kholer 20kw genset on Natural Gas. I love it. If I spend a little more money, I’ll make it dual fuel with a propane conversion kit. Our HOA doesn’t want propane tanks, but they are the best fuel storage out there. Diesel gensets are the best, last a long time, and good fuel storage with sta-bil, but a nightmare to store fuel.


12 posted on 01/06/2014 12:37:21 PM PST by DCBryan1 (No realli, moose bytes can be quite nasti!!)
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To: virgil283

Also, go to your local box store to find larger propane tanks. You can readily get 20lb, 30lb, 40lb, 60lb, and 100lb tanks, although the bigger the tank the less convenient it is to move around.


13 posted on 01/06/2014 12:37:26 PM PST by Obadiah (I Like Ted.)
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To: virgil283

If you are talking about unvented heaters, kerosene produces less humidity then propane. If you use it a lot this could be an issue. The smell of kero is noticeable but perfectly fine for emergencies- just don’t spill it.


14 posted on 01/06/2014 12:39:59 PM PST by Ford4000
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To: virgil283
Propane.

For emergency use only, with a window cracked, I use;

+

+

If Nat Gas is still flowing I use a battery array and inverter to fire up the furnace.

15 posted on 01/06/2014 12:42:04 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts ("Gun horror is not a productive emotion, it's learned helplessness disguised as moral superiority.")
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To: DCBryan1
" have a Kholer 20kw genset on Natural Gas."

Does it do co-generation with the waste heat?

16 posted on 01/06/2014 12:44:38 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: Obadiah
, and they suck all the oxygen out of the room.

The same thing is happening with a propane heater for the same reason.

it emits deadly CO2 gas and will kill,

You are likely thinking of CO, carbon monoxide. CO2 is emitted when burning properly but not toxic. CO is usually from improper burning (bad flame tip or the like).

I but I would also choose propane inside my home over kerosene, if only for refueling.

17 posted on 01/06/2014 12:45:06 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
"I use a battery array and inverter"

Sine Wave inverter? (That's my major plan. I've only used the setup to run the refigerator and lights in the summer. I assume my furnace will eat the power output too.)

Diesel cars (with a large tactical Diesel fuel reserve) provide battery recharge/load coverage.

18 posted on 01/06/2014 12:48:07 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: Ford4000
Yes unvented, I should have specified, unvented and portable heater.
19 posted on 01/06/2014 12:50:13 PM PST by virgil283 (When the sun spins, the cross appears, and the skies burn red)
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To: thackney
Please use a CO2 (& combustible vapor and CO) level monitor(s) if combusting indoors. CO2 levels above 3-4% is not recommended.
20 posted on 01/06/2014 12:50:50 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: thackney

Yeah, what you said.


21 posted on 01/06/2014 12:51:11 PM PST by Obadiah (I Like Ted.)
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To: virgil283

We use propane for backup heat. However, when the temperature dips below about 15 or 20 degrees, we often use it for primary heat, since our heat pump struggles to keep up in colder weather. I have no data to back it up, but I would guess that, below a certain temperature, propane is even cheaper to use than a heat pump.


22 posted on 01/06/2014 12:51:40 PM PST by Engraved-on-His-hands (Conservative 2016!! The Dole, H.W. Bush, McCain, Romney experiment has failed.)
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To: Paladin2

No need for a pure sine inverter - waste of money.

Build your home backup power with info from here:
http://battery1234.com


23 posted on 01/06/2014 12:53:43 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Paladin2
Please use a CO2

I don't think you are going to find a C02 detector unless you work in the gorebull warming industry.

Carbon Monoxide, yes. Carbon Dioxide? Probably not at Home Depot, Lowes or other household supply.

24 posted on 01/06/2014 12:54:19 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: virgil283

I am just going to add a disclaimer as we have all heard of tragic accidents.

Un-vented combustion heaters of any sort, give off by-products to the combustion that are poisonous like carbon monoxide — kills, silent, no smell and deadly.

Our furnaces keep this deadly aspect of combustion on the vented side of a heat exchanger, thus the combustion is never actually in the air stream, it is vented.

There are heaters and fire places that have claims to be 100% efficient at burning off the combustion by-products without venting. If you use one you are betting the lives of your family on it.

I have known instances of a heater in a garage without duct connection to the main house, still poisoning a family sleeping in the attached house, even with the door cracked in the garage. There are methods to keep your furnace going with auxillary electricity for pilot, fan and t-stat. If that solution is used you are probably using the safe bet as long as any generator is exhausted clear from the dwelling.


25 posted on 01/06/2014 12:56:19 PM PST by KC Burke (Officially since Memorial Day they are the Gimmie-crat Party.ha)
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To: virgil283

I look at it this way:

What kind of Kerosene heater would you use (Vented or non-Vented). Vented ones work fine much like an oil furnace. Used one up in Maine for years and it had a thermostat.

I currently have a propane fireplace (vented as well) and I like the point & click vice the 4 wood fireplaces I grew up with in Maine as well prior to the kerosene heater plus I also use the propane to cook with on our Jenn-Air Range and it’s hooked up outside to me BBQ grill.


26 posted on 01/06/2014 12:57:38 PM PST by maddog55
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To: Paladin2
"I assume my furnace will eat the power output too" .... The blower on a typical gas furnace uses less than 2 amps @ 124vac thats 248 watts [if I got the P over I x E right]
27 posted on 01/06/2014 12:58:02 PM PST by virgil283 (When the sun spins, the cross appears, and the skies burn red)
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To: virgil283
Folks who heat with wood don't really need a back up heat source.

I'm just sayin'.

28 posted on 01/06/2014 12:59:17 PM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: virgil283

Yes unvented, I should have specified, unvented and portable heater.

- - - - - - -

I doubt you find portable and unvented. There are some propane units without venting requirements but typically not portable. I suspect you will not find any kerosene that way.

And if it says indoor on the box, read the manual that comes with it. Do not ignore venting requirements without first listing me in your will.

http://www.efireplacestore.com/cui-ck10mlp.html?productid=cui-ck10mlp&channelid=FROOG&gclid=CJPiyda46rsCFUjxOgodhXYAGw


29 posted on 01/06/2014 1:00:09 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Paladin2
Yes...clean juice, just in case. I use a generator for heavy loads in an emergency situation...only when I have to.

My furnace is a steam radiator system so it only needs juice to run the thermostat, open the flu and make the pezo-electric spark to ignite the gas. So it is a very light load. The battery/inverter setup can provide juice to the furnace/thermostat system for a long time. If the batteries get down, I'll know it and can recharge them easily. A small weed whacker motor that drives an alternator. 20 minutes usually does it. Uses very little fuel for that amount of time.

The major issue is it is not very stealthy. I'm working on that for the inevitable SHTF scenario.

30 posted on 01/06/2014 1:00:55 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts ("Gun horror is not a productive emotion, it's learned helplessness disguised as moral superiority.")
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To: thackney
"In closed environments, especially industrial environments where fuels are used, CO2 levels can become dangerously elevated. Dry ice is frozen CO2, so industries that use a lot of dry ice might also need CO2 monitors.

In coal mines the miners have traditionally used canaries to monitor the level of CO2. When the canary dies the miners get ready to leave.

But there are more sophisticated instruments for CO2 detection. The “Testo Model 535 Carbon Dioxide Monitor” is a hand-held monitor which detects levels from 0 to 9999 ppm and has a dual probe to measure airflow through both an incoming and out-going duct. It’s cost is about $730 U.S. Dollars.

Green houses use CO2 monitors in order to assure that plants are receiving enough CO2 to carry on photosynthesis. Often these monitors are built to trigger a CO2 enrichment device when levels drop below that which is optimal for plant growth. However Green Air Products does produce a “Portable Carbon Dioxide Monitor Model CDM-7001″ which is hand held and would be well suited for a variety of applications. It also gives a temperature reading and is able to register a CO2 level within 30 seconds. It has a data port that can output data to a windows based application.

This monitor operates 70 hours on 4 AA batteries. The cost is about $925 US dollars. GE Telaire makes a device that looks identical in every aspect and sells for about $425."

They are on the way. "Internal combustion" is not a real gud idea.

31 posted on 01/06/2014 1:01:03 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: virgil283

Go propane, get one rated for indoor use with a tip over shut off. Never put it on the rug.

Read the reviews from several sites, have gotten a lot of good pointers.


32 posted on 01/06/2014 1:02:37 PM PST by Little Bill
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To: Mr. Lucky

Growing up, we had a wood furnace in NE Ohio. Worked very well once we figured out how to set the bi-metal damper. The learning curve involved all the windows in the house open, 25°F outside, 85°F inside. It was an add-on unit that used the original forced air duct system from the original oil-fired furnace. Both ran in series, the oil set at 55°F as a back-up unit.

Amazingly, after I went away to College and was no longer cutting, hauling, splitting and stacking firewood, Dad used the oil furnace and little wood.


33 posted on 01/06/2014 1:04:43 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

I have a Nat. Gas Forced air system where I’d need to turn the blower motors (one motor for internal forced convection and one to provide outside combustion air and exhaust of same and the controls.


34 posted on 01/06/2014 1:05:50 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: KC Burke
"add a disclaimer"....Thanks KC , ditto to all you said, if I had Natural gas that's what I would do. But I don't so hence the backup plan...
35 posted on 01/06/2014 1:06:03 PM PST by virgil283 (When the sun spins, the cross appears, and the skies burn red)
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To: virgil283
I'm a belt-and-suspenders kind of guy, so I have a free-standing propane stove for backup and a kerosene heater to back up the backup. I lived in Japan for eight years and had ONLY kerosene heat. That was pretty interesting. It was an inside unit so I couldn't have it on all night (CO issues), plus the interior tank needed frequent refilling, usually at the most inconvenient moments.

I do think I'm going to a wood stove, however. I live in a grove of trees. The downside to a wood stove is that you have to be there to tend it, and I'm not, always. If it gets cold enough the pipes freeze, so something that needs less tending fits my needs better. But wood heat requires nothing in the way of electricity or a propane dealer to support. Smells nice, too.

36 posted on 01/06/2014 1:06:13 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: thackney

There’s a saying to the effect that firewood warms you twice: once when you cut it and once when you burn it.


37 posted on 01/06/2014 1:06:36 PM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: Paladin2
"Internal combustion" is not a real gud idea.

Indoor combustion heats hundreds of thousands of home in the US. Ventless indoor combustion is another issue. Oxygen depletion will like be the first problem, which is why O2 sensor are far more commonly recommended.

38 posted on 01/06/2014 1:07:24 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Paladin2
That's the big problem...those darn blowers.

I love the air movement and the filtration component but from a grid down standpoint, they really do suck down the power. So, I'm happy to stick with the steam radiators for now.

39 posted on 01/06/2014 1:09:01 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts ("Gun horror is not a productive emotion, it's learned helplessness disguised as moral superiority.")
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To: thackney
"Dad used the oil furnace and little wood. "

LOL. There is nothing like slave labor.

My best return on my kid's educations was to get an alternator replacement done while I supervised and enjoying a good wine on a warm summer evening. It was sweet.

40 posted on 01/06/2014 1:09:38 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: thackney
"Ventless indoor combustion is another issue. "

That's my point. Torpedos, et. al.

41 posted on 01/06/2014 1:11:20 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: Mr. Lucky
There’s a saying to the effect that firewood warms you twice: once when you cut it and once when you burn it.

That depends if you are depending on Free Child Labor for your wood supply...

Actually, some of my fondest memories from childhood surround those times with my Dad and brother. My Dad worked his butt off, did lots of overtime to provide for us. Those hours in the woods spent with him were cherished.

42 posted on 01/06/2014 1:11:35 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: virgil283

I think you’re getting the drift that propane is preferable, and I would wholeheartedly agree *especially* for indoor use.

Fuel handling; dealing w/liquid fuel and the opportunity to spill it. Not a big deal outdoors but not nice if you spill indoors trying to fill your heater. Bad deal for kerosene. In a truly rotten situation, should the heater fall over (think: big dog) and produce a leak, say, on an absorbent rug that gets ignited, that’d be a hell of a problem. That is not to say that the same dog knocking a propane heater onto a flammable surface could not ignite things; but there isn’t a spilling liquid involved.

The amount of time a tank might last: Propane, no contest.

The only bad thing about propane is that the vapor is heavier than air. That’s one of the reasons why boaters tend to dislike it. You can have little leak after little leak accumulate in the lower part of a boat’s bilge, and without ventilation, can build up to an explosive mixture over time.
With people walking around and doors being opened from time to time, I can’t see this being an issue.

I have also heard, but it has not been my experience that burning propane in stoves, etc; produce lots of condensation = humidity in a home. That’s a nat gas vs propane comparison, you don’t have that option, otherwise you’d be using nat gas.


43 posted on 01/06/2014 1:14:39 PM PST by Attention Surplus Disorder (At no time was the Obama administration aware of what the Obama administration was doing)
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To: Paladin2

We are in agreement. But be honest, someone not willing to install permanent propane backup for $2~300 isn’t going to buy a cheaper portable heater then spend $4~700 on a CO2 monitor.


44 posted on 01/06/2014 1:14:42 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: virgil283

I live in the country and have a main furnace propane and 2 decorative fireplaces that also use the propane. We have a 500 gallon tank. There is no bad odor whatsoever when using the main furnace, and the fireplaces when lit have an initial propane odor that lasts about a minute, and then they are a nice aesthetic addition to our 2 family rooms. I don’t need them for the heat, so I can’t really keep them on that often. They’ll heat you out of the room.

I think propane is cheaper and definitely easier. Kerosene is more btus but far more expensive at 4.95 while propane was under 2 last time I filled the tank.


45 posted on 01/06/2014 1:15:50 PM PST by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
"Propane. For emergency use only, ...thanks BSR...a portable with a hose to an outside tank seems to be the best idea....
46 posted on 01/06/2014 1:17:14 PM PST by virgil283 (When the sun spins, the cross appears, and the skies burn red)
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To: virgil283

"I'll tell you what - a person
would have to be either a Communist or
a jackass to ask a question
like that. Maybe both."
47 posted on 01/06/2014 1:20:58 PM PST by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: virgil283
Don't forget the:

with a window cracked

Cheers!

48 posted on 01/06/2014 1:21:41 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: virgil283

She don’t lie...she don’t lie....she don’t lie.....Propane!


49 posted on 01/06/2014 1:22:30 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Hegewisch Dupa
""I'll tell you what - a person would have to be either a Communist or a jackass to ask a question like that. Maybe both." .... Hey I resemble that remark ........LOL
50 posted on 01/06/2014 1:25:37 PM PST by virgil283 (When the sun spins, the cross appears, and the skies burn red)
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