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Microsoft’s Windows 8 and 8.1 Gained Ground, And Overall Sales Forecast Looks Good
US Finance Post ^ | 01/07/2014 | Asif Imtiaz

Posted on 01/07/2014 7:50:09 AM PST by SeekAndFind

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To: RedWing9

I suppose then my question should have been “Why are you so mad that Microsoft didn’t ask you if you wanted to keep the start button?”


Because it’s symptomatic of their wrongheaded customer service philosophy. You don’t change for the sake of change, even if your telemetry tells you that you can. When you make decisions like that, you are going to have unforeseen consequences, since the telemetry can’t tell you that users still want the Start menu, even if they are not using it as much as they used to. You have to actually go out and get customer input to find that out, but MS doesn’t do much of that. They would rather try to force the users to use a product the way MS wants them to, than design a product around the way users want to use it.


51 posted on 01/07/2014 10:57:33 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: SeekAndFind
VIDEO: Get organized with FILE EXPLORER in Windows 8.1

No thanks. I have been using PowerDesk for years. It took file management the direction that Microsoft should have gone IMHO.

52 posted on 01/07/2014 11:09:38 AM PST by Starstruck (If my reply offends, you probably don't understand sarcasm or criticism...or do.)
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To: GBA
Where else do the old, but satisfied and content XP users go?

I had the same question six months ago and wound up pulling the trigger on Win 8. It has been almost seamless. The only program that wouldn't run was an old time and billing program I should have updated long ago. No regrets. I run five small businesses on my Win 8 box and it works great. The key is to just bypass all the tile stuff, which is really easy to do. My machine boots directly to the desktop like XP did, including a fully functional start button like XP. As I and others have pointed out, though, Win 8 is way more robust than XP. I'm not a MS fanboy by any stretch, but I don't get all the Win 8 bashing.

53 posted on 01/07/2014 11:26:25 AM PST by KevinB (Barack Hussein Obama: Proof-positive that affirmative action does not work.)
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To: MarineBrat
I personally think that every school kid should spend their first year on a computer at the DOS/CMD prompt. It leads to a much greater understanding of the file system.

For many years I had a lecture that I developed for folks that I called "The fully qualified filename". It took about an hour to go through, but at the end, you had a really good understanding of files, paths, and especially the "." and ".." directories.

Works great with SCP too. I love the shorthand that you can use with that.

zeugma@mysystem.foo.com:/home/zeugma/Downloads/file1.txt

That is a fully qualified name down to the system  username used to access it.

KDE took this a little bit further, and actually borrowed a bit from ftp URLs using the "fish" protocol.

On a KDE system, an application that understands fish:// can retrieve a file securely by specifying something like this:

fish://zeugma@mysystem.foo.com:/home/zeugma/Downloads/file1.txt

That tells it to use SSH to login to mysystem.foo.com as user zeugma, and get file1.txt from the /home/zeugma/Downloads directory. If you had your keys set up properly, you could do it without a password prompt. Nice.

54 posted on 01/07/2014 11:37:29 AM PST by zeugma (Is it evil of me to teach my bird to say "here kitty, kitty"?)
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To: unixfox

Give me a break! We have W8 on phones, tablets, laptops, desktops and servers. It’s unbelievably easy to coordinate everything!


55 posted on 01/07/2014 11:39:29 AM PST by BillM (.)
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To: livius

This is BS propaganda!


56 posted on 01/07/2014 11:42:09 AM PST by BillM (.)
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To: BillM

All they had to do was stop supporting XP... the most used OS on the planet, right now.

That is like banning all pre-2000 cars and then calling the increased sales of new cars an economic revival.


57 posted on 01/07/2014 11:45:26 AM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: Boogieman
"You have to actually go out and get customer input to find that out, but MS doesn’t do much of that."

Do you have proof that they don't, or is this just your opinion?

Do you even have access to a running copy of Win 8? If you did you would realize you still have a start menu. The Metro GUI is like a big taskbar and the Start Menu is behind it, you just have to move your mouse and click.

58 posted on 01/07/2014 11:49:35 AM PST by RedWing9 (Jesus Rocks Zero Sucks)
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To: qam1
"When your only arguments for something are “It’s the newest thing”, “You can’t handle change” or “you just to dumb to understand” you know you have a dud."

Love how you put words in my mouth - an obvious sign of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. I bet your like the others, you don't even have access to a running copy. You're just here to bash.

59 posted on 01/07/2014 11:51:39 AM PST by RedWing9 (Jesus Rocks Zero Sucks)
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To: BillM

The idea that laptops and phones and everything else should use the same OS is weird.


60 posted on 01/07/2014 11:52:28 AM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: MarineBrat
"I think you just want to sell Win 8 and make it look less laughable."

I have no interest in selling Win 8 to you, only to allow others on this forum to see an opinion based on facts that is not like yours.

"that they join the Customer Experience Improvement (ahem - spy on you) Program"

That's very telling. Yea, MS is spying on you! LOL Have you ever investigated the data they send? I have and it's non specific to your personal data. Here's a link that describes it.

"I want what I want because it's what I want for my own reasons. They question of "why" should not enter into the minds of the people who want my money."

So MS should bow down to 1 user (and likely 1% of users) and keep support of something just because they want it. Yea, that's a great business model.

61 posted on 01/07/2014 12:04:37 PM PST by RedWing9 (Jesus Rocks Zero Sucks)
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To: SeekAndFind

I finally got a new computer for Christmas, still using my old desktop. Had XP on both and never wanted to make the switch. Finally had to, so the new laptop has 8.1. I am pleasantly surprised, easy to use and it makes sense.


62 posted on 01/07/2014 12:18:39 PM PST by MomwithHope (Let's make Mark Levin's The Liberty Amendments a reality!)
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To: RedWing9

“Do you have proof that they don’t, or is this just your opinion?”

It’s my inference. Companies that do decent customer outreach just don’t have the kind of debacles with their rollouts that MS constantly does. So, either MS doesn’t bother with that, or they do a very poor job of it. What other explanation is there?

“Do you even have access to a running copy of Win 8? If you did you would realize you still have a start menu.”

Are you saying there was a Start button and classic-style start menu functionality in the original release of Window 8 (not 8.1), before customer demand forced MS to add it back in?


63 posted on 01/07/2014 12:46:04 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: KevinB

“I’m not a MS fanboy by any stretch, but I don’t get all the Win 8 bashing.”

Probably because you waited, and got Windows 8.1, which includes some changes that alleviate what started all the Windows 8 bashing in the first place. It would be like someone getting Win 98 after Service Pack 2 and saying “I don’t know why everyone was complaining about Win 98”.


64 posted on 01/07/2014 12:55:10 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman
Probably because you waited, and got Windows 8.1, which includes some changes that alleviate what started all the Windows 8 bashing in the first place. It would be like someone getting Win 98 after Service Pack 2 and saying “I don’t know why everyone was complaining about Win 98.

No, I had Win 8 running on three desktop machines for several months before 8.1 came out. All was fine. I did (and still do) use them with the Start8 addon, though, which made things totally seamless.

65 posted on 01/07/2014 1:19:48 PM PST by KevinB (Barack Hussein Obama: Proof-positive that affirmative action does not work.)
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To: KevinB

“I did (and still do) use them with the Start8 addon, though, which made things totally seamless.”

Ah, well, there you go.


66 posted on 01/07/2014 1:22:33 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman
Ah, well, there you go.

I never said 8 was perfect. For a $5 addon I was able to interact with the much more robust Win8 look just like I did XP. Why is it so important to you that people hate Win 8?

67 posted on 01/07/2014 1:45:40 PM PST by KevinB (Barack Hussein Obama: Proof-positive that affirmative action does not work.)
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To: Boogieman
"Are you saying there was a Start button and classic-style start menu functionality in the original release of Window 8 (not 8.1), before customer demand forced MS to add it back in?"

No, not classic style, for that you have to buy an Add-On. MS was not forced to add it, what they added was an easier way to get to the desktop. What I was referring to as a "Start Menu" is the Metro UI, which has the main window with a bunch of Tiles you configure (like your task bar) and then simply typing (or clicking the down arrow in 8.1) you get the rest of your apps.

68 posted on 01/07/2014 1:52:24 PM PST by RedWing9 (Jesus Rocks Zero Sucks)
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To: KevinB

“Why is it so important to you that people hate Win 8?”

Huh? When did you stop beating your wife?


69 posted on 01/07/2014 1:58:26 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: RedWing9

“What I was referring to as a “Start Menu” is the Metro UI, which has the main window with a bunch of Tiles you configure (like your task bar) and then simply typing (or clicking the down arrow in 8.1) you get the rest of your apps.”

In other words, you were not referring to what millions of Windows users know as the “Start Menu”, which MS did not include in Win8.


70 posted on 01/07/2014 2:00:21 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

Again, unwilling to accept change... It is a Start Menu and it functions way the hell better than the classic.


71 posted on 01/07/2014 2:32:18 PM PST by RedWing9 (Jesus Rocks Zero Sucks)
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To: RedWing9

“Again, unwilling to accept change... It is a Start Menu and it functions way the hell better than the classic.”

If I call a tangerine an orange, it doesn’t make it one. The Start button was removed from Win 8, and even MS admitted it, so it’s quite fruitless for you to try to pretend otherwise.


72 posted on 01/07/2014 2:42:41 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

Windows 8 has a perfectly fine fully capable (actually more capable) Start Menu, it’s a real Start Menu. It’s just a little different to get to it, but once you’re there you can do everything you ever could with any other version of the Start Menu plus other stuff.


73 posted on 01/07/2014 2:48:09 PM PST by discostu (I don't meme well.)
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To: SeekAndFind
I messed around with Windows 8.0 on my daughter's new laptop for a while, including doing the free upgrade to Windows 8.1 - which went quite smoothly. The worst part was the huge number of Windows Update patches required to 8.0 first, before I could do the 8.1 upgrade, which took a really long time. Regardless, it was very easy to do.

Anyway, it takes some getting used to, but in general I liked Windows 8.x well enough. I could care less about the start button, since I've always put shortcuts to the apps I run on the desktop anyway. You can still do that from the desktop app (single click from default-boot metro interface), or you can add your apps as tiles to metro.

My one major complaint to counter a number of positives isn't with Windows 8.x itself so much as the proliferation of the STUPID full-screen apps & utilities that are part of Windows 8.x. They have no windows bar for minimize/maximize & resizing, and in general do not even RUN in a window at all (despite the OS name). Trying to remember how to get out of these stupid full-screen apps back to see other apps, the desktop or metro interface, etc., is REALLY annoying. I was swiping left to do that, although I still don't know if that's the right approach or not. I suppose once I learned the right way to get out of these apps and move to others I'd get used to it, but as a first impression this was the thing about Windows 8.x I really hated.

Granted, perhaps it's cool to have full-screen apps that are common across WP8 devices, tablets, and desktops, since it offers more options across a spectrum of different platforms, but on a desktop computer with a very large monitor these full-screen apps that don't run in windows are terrible. It's like going back to the days of DOS or something. Isn't the "Windows" OS supposed to have windows? Some apps still do, but not many of the new ones.

74 posted on 01/07/2014 3:23:38 PM PST by MCH
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To: RedWing9

” in stats about Win 8 usage for years”

YEARS from now, Microsoft will be peddling Windows 9 and Windows 10, so indeed, business is skipping W8 just like they skipped Vista.


75 posted on 01/07/2014 4:12:45 PM PST by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: Boogieman

Huh, you have no proof that I beat my wife. Conversely you have spent this entire thread trying to convince folks to hate Win 8.


76 posted on 01/07/2014 4:17:38 PM PST by KevinB (Barack Hussein Obama: Proof-positive that affirmative action does not work.)
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To: RedWing9

Regarding the impact of Windows 8 on PC sales, Google searching for:

poor pc sales windows 8

yields 430,000,000 hits:

https://www.google.com/search?q=poor+pc+sales+windows+8&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


77 posted on 01/07/2014 4:18:55 PM PST by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: KevinB

“Conversely you have spent this entire thread trying to convince folks to hate Win 8.”

Nonsense. I have had a couple conversations about Win8 and MS on this thread, but I’ve never told anyone to “hate Win 8”. That’s just a clumsy accusation that is easily dispelled if anyone wants to go back and reread my comments.

Unless you are the simple minded type that thinks you must have only positive, glowing praise for everything MS does or you are a “hater”. If that’s your deal, then go fly a kite.


78 posted on 01/07/2014 6:04:53 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: discostu

If Windows 8 didn’t remove the Start menu, then why does MS say it did? Are you calling MS liars?:

“Where is the Start menu?
Applies to Windows 8.1, Windows RT 8.1

The Start screen replaces the Start menu in Windows 8.1 and Windows RT 8.1”

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/where-is-start-menu

MS doesn’t even call it a “Start menu”, so I think it is okay for you to admit that it is not a “Start menu”.


79 posted on 01/07/2014 6:14:38 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman
Yada yada yada, you have worked hard on this thread trying to convince anybody who had anything positive to say about Win 8 that they are wrong. I and others, on the other hand, have tried to give comments based on their experiences without any attempt to change anybody's mind.

From Wikipedia:

"A bogeyman (also spelled bogieman, or boogeyman) is a mythical creature in many cultures used by adults to frighten children into compliant behaviour."

Cheers and good night.

80 posted on 01/07/2014 6:24:39 PM PST by KevinB (Barack Hussein Obama: Proof-positive that affirmative action does not work.)
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To: KevinB

“Yada yada yada, you have worked hard on this thread trying to convince anybody who had anything positive to say about Win 8 that they are wrong.”

Again, that’s easily dispelled if anyone just scrolls back and reads my comments. Kind of silly to make an accusation that is so easy for anyone to see through, but if that is what floats your boat, I can’t stop you.

” From Wikipedia:

“A bogeyman (also spelled bogieman, or boogeyman) “

Note that it’s not also spelled “Boogieman”, because my name is not that word.


81 posted on 01/07/2014 6:46:11 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: SeekAndFind

Good to see for once a consensus on FR that Winblows Ate & 8.1 suck, and that we all must hate it!


82 posted on 01/07/2014 6:49:31 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Boogieman

I am not pretending otherwise, that is why I put it in “”... Why do you not understand that?


83 posted on 01/07/2014 7:40:16 PM PST by RedWing9 (Jesus Rocks Zero Sucks)
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To: catnipman

Searching Hillary for President returned 96,000 hits... Should I vote for her?


84 posted on 01/07/2014 7:41:54 PM PST by RedWing9 (Jesus Rocks Zero Sucks)
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To: catnipman

Yep, they will create a new version. Are you an Oracle that can divine the future? How about you tell me how you have been involved in the rollout of a major O/S....


85 posted on 01/07/2014 7:43:46 PM PST by RedWing9 (Jesus Rocks Zero Sucks)
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To: Erik Latranyi

What phone did you have before the Nokia? I have a Motorola android phone now but have been thinking about trying out the 1520 but I’m with US Cell and they don’t have it available. I might switch to Verizon for that. I was just wondering if you had android before and what you like about this over android.


86 posted on 01/07/2014 8:02:00 PM PST by Lurkina.n.Learnin (This is not just stupid, we're talking Democrat stupid here.)
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To: RedWing9

Oh, okay. I was under the impression that you were trying to convince me that MS didn’t remove the Start menu, when you actually agree that it was removed and just like to nickname something else the “Start menu”. Thanks for resolving my confusion.


87 posted on 01/07/2014 9:40:12 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Lurkina.n.Learnin
What phone did you have before the Nokia? I have a Motorola android phone now but have been thinking about trying out the 1520 but I’m with US Cell and they don’t have it available. I might switch to Verizon for that. I was just wondering if you had android before and what you like about this over android.

I've used Android before. The fragmentation of the OS delivers different experiences on different pieces of hardware.

I have not personally owned an iPhone, but have been around enough of them to know it is not my cup of tea.

For me, Windows Phone splits the difference. Enough open to do what you want, but a controlled OS that delivers a familiar experience across all devices.

You can see this with Microsoft. If you can run Windows 8/8.1 Metro, Xbox then you can run Windows Phone. They all work together nicely.

The pictures I take on my Lumia 1520 upload to the cloud and are available on my Surface Pro tablet.

88 posted on 01/08/2014 5:54:10 AM PST by Erik Latranyi (When religions have to beg the gov't for a waiver, we are already under socialism.)
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To: RedWing9

Assimilated MS fanboy. Have fun with your new strart menrue.


89 posted on 01/08/2014 7:08:42 AM PST by MarineBrat (Better dead than red!)
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To: Boogieman

The Start screen does replace the initial function of the Start Menu (of being the first place you’ll probably be clicking). But the menu is still there, just gotta hover on the side to make the floatie bar show up and then in the middle of that is a little window icon with the word “Start” under it:
http://electronicdesign.com/site-files/electronicdesign.com/files/archive/electronicdesign.com/content/content/74676/74676_fig2.jpg
and if you click that you get the new and improved and much more dynamic Start Menu:
http://betanews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Windows-8-with-Start-Menu-e1338822965137.jpg

And if that’s not good enough for you 8 ships with a “Classic Shell” that looks mostly like 7. And there’s a dozen companies made free Start menu replacements for 8.


90 posted on 01/08/2014 7:16:38 AM PST by discostu (I don't meme well.)
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To: KevinB
Thanks for the success story!

It wasn't a happy and festive occasion when the solid, dependable XP computer died, but figured it would be an easy move to Win 8. Unfortunately, first impressions are lasting and mine with Win 8 came when I needed to meet some high stress deadlines.

Win 8 added even more time and difficulty (stress) when I would have preferred a quick and easy transition to a working familiarity instead of wondering how to turn the effing thing off.

As background, I'm having trouble with two new vehicles with great reputations that came with built in problems. Since obama, several products I've come to depend like and depend on were taken off the market and the replacements not as good. And and now Windows too, with some Vista-style deja vu all over again?? Just not a good first impression.

I now have three Win 7 computers and one Win 8 sitting idle. Once I get caught up with the end of year/first of the year to do list, I'll give Win 8 another chance and see what I'm missing.

91 posted on 01/08/2014 7:42:23 AM PST by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: discostu

“The Start screen does replace the initial function of the Start Menu (of being the first place you’ll probably be clicking). But the menu is still there, just gotta hover on the side to make the floatie bar show up and then in the middle of that is a little window icon with the word “Start” under it:”

So, you are calling MS liars, then?


92 posted on 01/08/2014 7:49:26 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

Nope, I’m saying you’re willfully confused. If you setup your Start screen correctly you never need the old start menu. It’s there for you, but you don’t need it. Kind of like how if you setup your quicklaunch bar in 7 correctly you don’t need the start menu anymore, only bigger.


93 posted on 01/08/2014 8:00:42 AM PST by discostu (I don't meme well.)
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To: discostu

“Nope, I’m saying you’re willfully confused.”

I’m just saying what MS says on their official website, so if I am confused, they must be confused about their own product too. Maybe you can go enlighten them for a change?


94 posted on 01/08/2014 8:20:00 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

And I explained to you how what they said is true AND the menu can still be found and used, including screen shots of where the menu is and what it looks like. But you ignored all that and continue to insist there’s no start menu. So it’s all you at this point, meanwhile other folks are hovering and getting to the start menu that’s still there though no longer high profile.


95 posted on 01/08/2014 8:23:18 AM PST by discostu (I don't meme well.)
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To: discostu
"And I explained to you how what they said is true AND the menu can still be found and used, including screen shots of where the menu is and what it looks like."

Sure, sure. You must be correct, and therefore, all these tech writers are delusional:

Windows Start Menu to Return in Windows 8.2

Start Menu in the Future of Windows 8

Windows 8 Start Menu to Return with Threshold Update

The Return of the Windows Start Menu

Sorry, buddy, but if you want to call some other Windows 8 feature the "start menu", that's fine. The rest of us are under no obligation to adopt your nickname or play pretend with you.

96 posted on 01/08/2014 8:40:18 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: MarineBrat
Oh, aren't you a joy. Brat is right! :)

Look, I'm only here because, as typical, persons like yourself are all bent out of shape over nothing. Technology changes, if you don't like it go hide in a cave in Montana.

97 posted on 01/08/2014 10:32:47 AM PST by RedWing9 (Jesus Rocks Zero Sucks)
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To: RedWing9

I don’t know who you are, and have never noticed you before. I only know that you initiated our communications by asking me a question, while never intending on accepting my answer.


98 posted on 01/08/2014 12:18:38 PM PST by MarineBrat (Better dead than red!)
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To: MarineBrat
Harumpf.... :)

You're right, you haven't noticed me because I'm a Windows SpamBoy Ninja! I only come out when Storm Shadow is in the room (not you of course)... /sarcasm

I have been on this site for more than a decade though I spend most of my time reading. Reading to get information to use against lefty's that I don't run into on this site. I find it worthless to respond on this site because by the time I read everything what I want to say is already said. This thread was fresh, so I jumped in...

99 posted on 01/08/2014 4:59:41 PM PST by RedWing9 (Jesus Rocks Zero Sucks)
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To: RedWing9

All other things aside, I’m sure we could happily sit down over a cup o joe and enjoy a rousing game of pin the tail on the donkey. :)


100 posted on 01/08/2014 11:41:02 PM PST by MarineBrat (Better dead than red!)
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