Posted on 01/09/2014 9:34:58 PM PST by Morgana
The lawyer for the family of Jahi McMath, the 13-year-old who has been declared brain dead, said Wednesday that doctors successfully inserted a gastric tube and tracheotomy tube into the teenager at an as yet undisclosed facility.
Jahi was transferred from Oakland Children’s Hospital January 5 after a protracted legal battle between the family and the hospital which declared Jahi brain dead December 12 and sought to remove her from a ventilator.
The arraignment to move Jahi was reached during a hearing Friday before Alameda Superior Court Judge Evelio Grillo under which Jahi’s mother, Nailah Winkfield, could remove her daughter from the hospital as long as she assumed full responsibility.
Christopher Dolan told reporters that Jahi’s health is “improving,” and labeled the surgery “a success.”
“She is doing very well and getting the treatment she should have gotten 28 days ago,” Dolan said in a text message, according to the Oakland Tribune. “Doctors are optimistic that her condition has stabilized and that her health is improving from when she was taken from Children’s Hospital Oakland.”
Illustrating the daily ebb and flow, on Monday, Nolan was far less optimistic. “She’s in very bad shape,” he said, adding examinations show Jahi’s medical condition “is not good.”
The hospital reiterated its position that Jahi is brain dead. Deterioration “became inevitable the moment she died,” according to Dr. Heidi Flori, a critical care physician at Children’s Hospital.
The Los Angeles Times reported that Dr. Flori said in a court declaration filed in U.S. District Court that “The medical team and I believe that additional and more dramatic signs of the body’s deterioration will continue to manifest over time, regardless of any procedures and regardless of any heroic measures that any facility in the country might attempt.”
At the recommendation of doctors Jahi underwent an operation on December 9 to remove her tonsils, adenoids and extra sinus tissue to treat pediatric obstructive sleep apnea.
Afterwards “The teen girl was alert and talking to doctors after the procedure, even asking for a Popsicle because her throat hurt,” CNN reported. “That was a relief in some ways because she’d expressed concerns to her family about the surgery, fearing she would never wake up from it, her uncle has said.”
Does it stand to reason, then, that Ariel Sharon's body should have been kept in a plastic basin, since after eight years he would be just liquid mush, right?
Even the medical opinions merely talk about brain degeneration, and even then such talk is unknown until now. No one spoke of Teri Schiavo "decomposing" or "liquifying" or other such horrifics.
And of course NO ONE is talking about hospital liability. Oh no, the family is just a bunch of money grubbers - after these SAME doctors, whom you hold in such HIGH esteem, killed this girl. Oh sorry, brain damage is such a normal possibility from tonsillectomy. Trust us, we're doctors. So pay, die, and shut up.
NOT TERRI SCHIAVO! YES I’M YELLING!
M'kay, got the yelling part.
Not quite clear on your point part, though.
Terri Schiavo & Ariel Sharon both were alive - had brain activity. Jahi is dead. Big difference. Jahi McMath also had more than tonsils removed. Had extensive work done...
These terms are too imprecise. The only thing anyone said about Terri Schiavo was that she was in a "vegetative state" and could never come back to consciousness - meaning only her lower brainstem supposedly was working (which I disagree with, but that was the position of the killers).
Same with Sharon, IIRC.
In both cases, we were told these people were "dead."
Now there's a new kind of dead - decomposition liquifaction. Oh no, those words aren't being used to horrify. They're being used as accurate descriptions, by the same doctors and hospital that turned her into that state in the first place.
All you people are doing is quoting medical textbooks on certain physical conditions, and justifying it by quoting heavily invested and biased doctors and a hospital and its attorneys, without a moment's doubt that they are telling the absolute truth.
Of course, that means the doctors who are currently caring for her are absollute frauds, because as doctors, they would know she is literally a dead body they are keeping going with pumps. So there's no problem in assuming that extremity against her, but no way such an extremity can be presumed against the doctors and hospital that created the condition.
Fine, roles and biases are clear.
Ariel Sharon was not brain dead. He was in a coma. There is a MASSIVE difference between being comatose and having zero brain activity. Jahi has zero brain activity. There is no blood going to her brain and there are no electrical impulses in her brain. This means she is dead.
The only reason her heart is beating is because of the machines she is hooked up to. The machines are the only things keeping her “alive”.
Terri Schiavo was in a vegetative state. She was not brain dead. People who are in a vegetative state have brain activity.
Jahi’s mother is partially to blame because she did not follow the doctors’ post-op instructions. She gave her daughter a cheeseburger and had her laughing, BOTH of which she was instructed not to do. Also, Jahi’s grandmother suctioned out her throat which was incredibly foolish and dangerous. She was not authorized to do so.
This was not a routine surgery. She underwent a very risky surgery that is not common for kids her age because of the dangers. Her weight was also a factor.
The doctors are being dragged through the mud. ALL surgery is risky and sometimes the patient will die. The doctors did not kill the girl.
What you are describing is - literally - a dead body.
As if there was simply a newly dead body, brought into the morgue, and then they decided to hook it up to a heart/lung machine.
How could such a thing be allowed? How could doctors receive authorization to treat a completely dead body in this manner? This simply does not make sense. If this were the case, no doctor and no lawyer could support such activity - they’d have no professional grounds for their behavior. That’s why I cannot believe that “dead” in this case means actually, completely dead. And that’s why I think there’s a lot of lying going on here by the hospital and doctors. Dead is not severely bad - it’s dead. Yet the reports by her family’s attorney are that she is severely, extremely bad. How could he possibly get away with something like this if he was lying? And to what end?
It just seems impossible as well as meaningless. That’s why I believe there must be some brain activity that is being argued over, versus simply meat.
Because of the HIPPA act the doctors and the hospital cannot reveal everything that is going on.
The girl had actually been released to the coroner but they were ordered by the judge to give her back to her family.
The doctors would not provide a feeding tube since she is dead.
According to several neurologists and the coroner there is absolutely no brain activity.
I’m completely perplexed myself.
Doctors did not want to treat a dead body; however, a nifty little court order forced them to.
Listen, there are already several threads on this poor girl. You can scroll through them and get all the information you need. The information includes why this isn’t Schiavo, what type of surgery she really had, why she is brain dead, what is brain death, and what her body will be doing over the next several weeks.
In both cases, we were told these people were “dead.” —— NO. I read and believed they were ALIVE, except for Jahi, who was not.
I don’t believe there are any doctors “caring” for the body of Jahi McMath. Interesting, isn’t it, that the fraud family & lawyer, won’t say what type of place she is in, or where she is located, while the family still raises money from the ignorant and the gullible and the kooks.
Listen, your trust in testimony over the unexpected medical death of a young girl and your belief that the involved hospital and doctors are telling the absolute truth to the media is charming. I prefer to think things through for myself. We're not on the same page, and we're not going to be. Try to live with it.
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This is the first I've heard of these details. Thanks.
The girl is not there and her brain “Stem” shows no brain activity...further she was eliminating her bowels before they transferred her, which is what the body does when it’s decomposing....and other clear signals the body was decomposing.
The family refusal to accept the obvious..and their part in not complying with clear instructions prior to and after surgery, did not help the already poor health this girl was in before surgery.
Clearly the family had not withheld food from her before her health issues,( which apnea and diabeties often go hand and hand with obesity), which she was. To give her food before and after tells me her eating habits were likely that of the family using food to “comfort her”....which is often reasons why some are overweight.
Additionally you have a top rate hospital who did all that they could in the situation with parents who could/would not accept their daughter died. This was NOT a routine tonsilectomy by any means and the family knew this going in.
The fact many hospitals DID turn them down before they could find someone to take her speaks volumes as well....I have no doubt the place she is now in is having huge concerns over what they now have on their hands, once they examined her and saw her actual condition.
She is dead in every sense of the word and her body is decomposing...and has been since Dec. when she was pronounced dead....and that by several Dr’s.
Listen, your trust in testimony over the death of an obese girl who had a complicated surgery to open her airway so she could breath better, instead of losing weight, by the mother who made her obese is charming. I prefer to think things through for myself. We’re not on the same page, and we’re not going to be. Try to live with it.
Her mother MADE her obese?
As the parent of four adopted at birth children. Three within normal BMI guidelines, I can assure you no one makes their children obese. I had a child who was 32 pounds at six months, and is a 240 lb adult. We ate: organic foods with few snacks and no desserts. we were vegan but added meat when it was thought by Boston Childrens to slow down her weight gain.
No chips, no soda, just water and tea. No white sugars nothing that is commonly associated with weight gain. We lived on 30 acres and the children were homeschooled and outside all the time.
...”I don’t believe there are any doctors “caring” for the body of Jahi McMath. Interesting, isn’t it, that the fraud family & lawyer, won’t say what type of place she is in, or where she is located, while the family still raises money from the ignorant and the gullible and the kooks”.....
She’s likely in some care home the Lawyer located....he and the family will want to save face...removing her from the hospital prior means the likely of an autopsy is nil. I can hear it already “She’s been through enough so no autopsy”
I think most knew that as this family stretched this out there could be something more sinister going on here, once several Dr.s declared her dead. Just reading the reports as things moved along certainly attest to her being dead when they pronounced her so.
Now that this care home has her, I’m sure since they saw and examined her body they’re wringing hands on how they can get out this situation......no doubt insurance isn’t paying now so the family has to keep up the fund raising.
What a horrible mess they’ve created....this has gone far beyond a parents denial IMO.
I’m not a fan of BMI or the food pyramid. We eat mainly what we grow, and our diet is based on real food. Nothing processed or with ridiculous additives. Check I make our own bread and chicken stock. What does this have to do with Jahi’s case? Nothing. Just like your example has nothing to do with this case.
A bariatric doc my nephew has seen told my idiot in-laws that genetics account for about 30% of weight issues. So if one is 100 pounds overweight then 70 pounds is his fault. My idiot in-laws made my nephew obese. The obese students I see every day are the direct cause of ghetto parents that don’t love them enough to buy Apple’s instead Doritos, or scramble them some eggs instead of toasting Pop Tarts. Yes, parents do make their children obese.
You know, I’m not saying he’s in bad shape. In fact, it seems that unless a miracle takes place, she’s going to die. In which case, of course, everyone will simply say she was dead all along. So it’s not like I believe there’s any hope in proving my position.
But I’m not seeing much, if any, analysis of the overwhelmingly obvious bias and interest in the hospital and involved doctors making sure she is dead, here. Legally, the stakes are staggering as far as lawsuits are concerned, and the medical side is in an infinitely stronger position in the courtroom if she is dead and buried.
As well, never before in any such type of story have such draconian words been hauled out wholesale by the media, like “decompising” and “liquifaction,” etc. That these are supposed to have an powerful emotional effect on the reader is beyond obvious. And dragging out necropsy process descriptions are another obvious deflection of the actual points, because everyone knows that bodies decompose.
The issues here are simple - people die all the time in hospitals. Why, in this case, did a judge intervene on behalf of extending life support? Why did a judge intervene on behalf of releasing the child for further medical care when supposedly the coroner issued a death certificate? Why didn’t the government seize the body and prevent the parents from treating a dead body as if it is alive? How can lawyers and doctors claim to be treating a living person who is completely brain dead and not risk their professional accreditations?
These are not only valid questions, they are questions that will affect lawsuits that are sure to come that will reack the tens of millions fo dollars or higher. And they are being dismissed blithely, without even comment or explanation or investigations, and those who ask them are notw being labelled as cracks - when these exact questions WILL have to be answered in court.
No. I don’t know what is going on, but I smell a HUGE rat here. I don’t believe the family is telling the whole truth either, but it’s blazingly obvious this liquifaction cover story is equally fraudulent. AND we happen to live in a country where this particular issue - when a person is alive or dead, when they receive medical care or not, where the courts get involved and where they don’t, and now OBAMACARE’s big fat foot in the whole problem, makes this an extremely important issue to get very clear.
That conservatives, of all people, don’t see the danger in simply blowing this off and trusting those in power to tell them the truth of the matter, is depressing. And you’re worried about RINOs? LOL, RINOs are the least of your problems. Just wait until you get sick.
Coma:..... These patients are alive, but in a state where their eyes are closed. They have a depressed consciousness from which they cannot be awakened. A coma is different from brain death as there are still brain stem responses. There can be spontaneous breathing and non-purposeful motor responses. The person may or may not be on a ventilator to support their breathing depending on other physical conditions. A coma will eventually progress to having a recovery of consciousness, deterioration to a state of chronically depressed consciousness, or brain death. The states of depressed consciousness will be either a vegetative state or minimally conscious state.
Minimally conscious state:...... These patients are stuck somewhere between being in a vegetative state and being in a coma. There is still a severe alteration in consciousness but with inconsistent occasional behaviors suggesting a level of awareness. There may be occasional purposeful movements, and they may occasionally track motions with their eyes. These cases are the hardest to deal with as the behavior gives the family and caregivers hope for a full recovery, which is unfortunately not usually the case.
Vegetative state:...... These patients are alive but have extremely impaired consciousness. Their eyes may open spontaneously giving the impression of consciousness however there no awareness of the environment. These patients do not acknowledge their surroundings and are unable to track object with their eyes or speak. They may have some movements however they are non purposeful. (Finley Boyle, Marlise Munoz, Terri Schiavo)
Locked-in syndrome: ........This is a very cruel condition indeed. It is when a patient is aware and awake but cannot move or communicate due to complete paralysis of nearly all voluntary muscles in the body except for the eyes. This happens due to a basal artery stroke, a head injury, MS, ALS or other diseases. (Ariel Sharon).
Brain dead:....... These patients are no longer alive. They are considered clinically dead with irreversible damage and cessation of all activity. This would include the entire brain including the in both the brain stem. There may be some spinal cord generated reflexes however they are non voluntary. There is no ability to regulate breathing, and in time temperature, heart rate and blood pressure will be affected without artificial intervention. (Jahi McMath)
Thanks for the definitions. However, as I said repeatedly, the point is not the definitions, but questioning which definition applies, and who to trust concerning testimony as to those applications, when compared to the rest of the story, common sense and tens of millions of dollars in litigation awards.
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