Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Jahi McMath’s Health “Improving” After She Gets Feeding, Breathing Tubes
Life News ^ | Dave Andrusko

Posted on 01/09/2014 9:34:58 PM PST by Morgana

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150 next last
To: MHGinTN; Drew68; ZX12R
We know her brain is not receiving oxygen because she had a radionuclide brain scan performed, which showed no blood flow to her brain.

Radionuclide brain scans

51 posted on 01/10/2014 11:40:14 AM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Drew68

If her heart and lungs are working, I have a hard time with your claim her brain is not receiving oxygen. I have no argument her brain in all examinations is dead short of her autonomic nervous system, but the fact she is breathing and her heart is pumping on their own, pretty much devoid your claim that her “brain” is not getting oxygen.


52 posted on 01/10/2014 11:43:24 AM PST by HamiltonJay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Scoutmaster

So now that she is on a ventilator and a heart machine, you’re saying that blood is not getting to her brain cells?


53 posted on 01/10/2014 11:46:35 AM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: Scoutmaster
We know her brain is not receiving oxygen because she had a radionuclide brain scan performed, which showed no blood flow to her brain.

Thanks for that. Very interesting. Do you happen to know specifically what is stopping the blood flow to the brain?
54 posted on 01/10/2014 11:48:29 AM PST by ZX12R (Never forget the heroes of Benghazi, who were abandoned to their deaths by Obama)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN

Yes. I’m not a physician and cannot explain why, but I’ve read the blogs of neurologists unaffiliated with the hospital and they’re clear that the tests performed indicate no blood is getting to the brain cells.


55 posted on 01/10/2014 11:53:05 AM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: ZX12R
No, I don't know what the physiology is that prevents blood from reaching the brain cells.

Here's another good jumping off spot for information on the Jahi McMath case.

56 posted on 01/10/2014 11:58:19 AM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: HamiltonJay

Google Jahi’s name and ‘radionuclide brain scan.’ That’s the test that was performed on her and confirms her brain is not receiving any blood flow.


57 posted on 01/10/2014 12:00:56 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: Scoutmaster
When in the last forty days was the test performed? For how long was she not having her breathing done for her?

The brain is a most interesting organ. It thrives on continuous 02 exchange energy production, but when 02 supply drops below a certain level, the cells in the brain switch to a sugar based energy system rather than an external 02 burn system, for a while anyway.

58 posted on 01/10/2014 12:09:42 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
I don't recall seeing a date for the test in any of the court documents or physicians' blogs.

One other test performed on her was to take her off the vent, which they did for nine minutes. Once the carbon dioxide level in her arterial blood hit 70%, her brainstem should have initiated a breath if she wasn't brain dead. It didn't.

59 posted on 01/10/2014 12:18:35 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
Taking Jahi off the vent was an apnea test, which is a mandatory examination for determining brain death.

Brain Death and Apnea Tests

60 posted on 01/10/2014 12:21:23 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: Mears

So you think people in a comma shouldn’t be cared for?


61 posted on 01/10/2014 12:36:39 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: BuckeyeTexan

Are her heart and lungs functioning without machines?


62 posted on 01/10/2014 12:38:02 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Drew68
So I assume her heart and lungs have stopped working as well.

If they have, then she is indeed dead.

63 posted on 01/10/2014 12:39:36 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: HamiltonJay

Exactly! How could the heart and lungs still be operating without the brain.


64 posted on 01/10/2014 12:40:42 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: fortheDeclaration
Her lungs are not functioning without a ventilator.

If you take her off the ventilator for long enough, her heart will stop beating.

65 posted on 01/10/2014 12:41:01 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
She needs to be taken off of those and if the heart and lungs continue to operate than she needs to receive care.

If a machine is keeping her heart and lungs going, she is indeed dead.

66 posted on 01/10/2014 12:42:39 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: fortheDeclaration
Are her heart and lungs functioning without machines?

Jahi is on a ventilator (aka life support machine) that is mechanically pumping oxygen into her lungs. Unplug that machine and respiration will cease immediately followed by circulation within minutes.

67 posted on 01/10/2014 12:43:40 PM PST by Drew68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: fortheDeclaration
This article posted a couple of days ago offers a lot of interesting medical information of what happens to your body when you are brain dead and on life support.

Jahi McMath: Family says brain-dead teen's body may be too deteriorated to save

Read the complete story at the link.

68 posted on 01/10/2014 12:51:32 PM PST by Drew68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: Drew68
If 02 is withheld from you, you too would cease to function in a few minutes. We could pump some Pavulon into you, then hook you up to a ventilator for a while, then stop the machine, and you would eventually expire. That is not what this is about.

I would just like to know if her heart will beat, unassisted, so long as oxygen is pumped into her lungs. If so, she is circulating her own blood thus her brain --right down to the stem-- is not yet 'dead'. She is not yet a cadaver if her heart will beat on its own so long as 02 level is maintained by machinery if needed.

69 posted on 01/10/2014 12:55:21 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
I would just like to know if her heart will beat, unassisted, so long as oxygen is pumped into her lungs. If so, she is circulating her own blood thus her brain --right down to the stem-- is not yet 'dead'.

Her brain stem is dead along with the rest of her brain. Yes her heart continues to beat with the aid of a ventilator pumping oxygen into her lungs. But it won't keep doing this forever. Her blood pressure is already very low and continues to drop. Read the link to the article I posted above. It explains things a lot better than I can.

70 posted on 01/10/2014 1:12:13 PM PST by Drew68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: Morgana

There are going to be lots of really stupid looking people “if” this girl ever “wakes” up....


71 posted on 01/10/2014 1:14:25 PM PST by Popman ("Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Drew68

Um, your lack of education is showing. If the brain stem is dead, the heart is not beating without external stimulation.


72 posted on 01/10/2014 1:15:37 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: Popman

From what I’ve read, this poor child will never ‘wake up’. She is far less here than a severely comatose patient. The circus is looking more like an exploitation for gain than grieving parents. Perhaps this is another manifestation of exploitation via magic thinking, like occurred with the Treyvon Martin hysteria?


73 posted on 01/10/2014 1:18:44 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN; Drew68
According to the University of Miami Medical School's website on brain death:

The heart has its own pacemaker independent of the brain. As long as it has oxygen, it continues to beat. The heart could actually be removed from the body, placed in saline solution, given oxygen, and still continue to beat.

This is why although the brain is dead, the heart continues to beat.


74 posted on 01/10/2014 1:28:20 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
Re: exploitation

"There is speculation by a number of web commentators and bloggers that this insistence on “brain damaged and disabled” versus brain dead, and “really most sincerely dead” is simply an attempt to preserve Jahi’s “aliveness” in preparation for a flurry of court actions designed at recovering monetary damages in excess of California’s pain and suffering caps. The uncle, in a recorded press conference referred to the number of $250,000 as “chump change”, and suggested that the more appropriate number is $30,000,000. Thirty million versus $250,000. Maybe it’s just me, but it is pretty unseemly to be tossing around these kind of numbers while Jahi is still alive."

Source

75 posted on 01/10/2014 1:33:19 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
Um, your lack of education is showing. If the brain stem is dead, the heart is not beating without external stimulation.

Clearly it is you who does not understand basic human anatomy and physiology. The heart does not require a brain to function, only oxygen (provided from the lungs via machine). But eventually even fresh oxygen will not be enough to keep the heart pumping --as is being currently demonstrated by Jahi's falling blood pressure.

76 posted on 01/10/2014 1:36:51 PM PST by Drew68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: Popman

Her brain is DEAD.


77 posted on 01/10/2014 3:00:14 PM PST by bonfire
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: bonfire
Her brain is DEAD.

So is Joe Biden brain dead and he is VP...

I will be the first to admit I know almost nothing about what constitutes being brain dead...

I do know in the past other "brain dead" people were actually not "brain dead" and were declared as such either though incompetent wrong diagnosis or woke up as a "miracle"...

78 posted on 01/10/2014 3:08:16 PM PST by Popman ("Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 77 | View Replies]

To: All

About 15 years ago a friend of the family had brain surgery.

Now she is 92 years of age, and through the years her mental capacity has progressively improved.

I’m hardly a brain surgeon, but I can see that this dear woman is better mentally at 92 than she has been since her brain surgery. Don’t people usually have less cognitive abilities as they age?

No doubt about it - the brain can heal!


79 posted on 01/10/2014 4:34:19 PM PST by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: fortheDeclaration
How could the heart and lungs still be operating without the brain?

From the FAQ in #35

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Q: But her heart is still beating! Her body is warm! And her kidneys are making urine! Are you telling me that dead people have beating hearts? Should we make caskets waterproof to protect the ground from all the urine the dead people make?

A: Clearly you don't understand basic human anatomy and physiology. The heart, kidneys, and lungs do not require a brain to function. If I hooked a human kidney up to an oxygenated blood flow, it would produce urine, no brain (or batteries) required. Same thing goes for the lungs, heart, and all the other cellular mechanisms. Because Jahi's body is hooked up to a ventilator, it pumps oxygenated air into her lungs. Her lungs, also requiring no brain input to exchange gases, continue to exchange oxygen for carbon dioxide, and her cells which are receiving blood flow (remember, her brain is NOT getting blood flow) will continue to function. So her body will stay warm, her heart will still beat, and her kidneys will still make urine.

80 posted on 01/10/2014 4:34:33 PM PST by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: Sun
No doubt about it - the brain can heal!

The brain can re-route traffic --to a limited extent but brain cells themselves do not heal and the brain does not make new ones.

81 posted on 01/10/2014 6:30:01 PM PST by Drew68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]

To: All; Drew68

“Pediatrician: Jahi McMath is Not “Brain Dead,” Can Recover With Proper Care”

more http://www.lifenews.com/2013/12/31/leading-pediatrician-jahi-mcmath-is-not-brain-dead-can-recover-with-proper-care/

As for “re-route” or heal, does the patient and their loved ones care, as long as they are better?

Bottome line, that’s what counts.


82 posted on 01/10/2014 6:48:08 PM PST by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: Sun
“Pediatrician: Jahi McMath is Not “Brain Dead,” Can Recover With Proper Care”

Did you get to the part in the article where Dr. Byrne admits to not having actually examined McMath?

As for “re-route” or heal, does the patient and their loved ones care, as long as they are better?

Healing is one thing. Rising from the dead is another.

83 posted on 01/10/2014 7:11:38 PM PST by Drew68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: Drew68

“..Dr. Byrne admits to not having actually examined McMath..”

And doctors HAVE examined many patients and declared them “brain dead” when they were not, including Zack Dunlop, who recovered completely and went on to tell his story on tv.

Do you think doctors are infallible?


84 posted on 01/10/2014 7:59:31 PM PST by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: Drango; fortheDeclaration

Drango is correct. He describes exactly what happens during an open heart surgery or a heart transplant....it’s called a bypass machine and keeps patients alive while circumventing the need of a beating heart to do the job.

I’ve seen the human heart continue beating in a surgeon’s hand while he’s operating on it and the patient is on bypass.

The girl is dead even though her heart is beating and her lungs are working...it’s the machines doing it for her. Not her brain.


85 posted on 01/10/2014 8:01:54 PM PST by JouleZ (You are the company you keep.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: Sun; Drew68
And doctors HAVE examined many patients and declared them “brain dead” when they were not... Do you think doctors are infallible?

From the FAQ in # 35

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Q: Well what if you're wrong? Aren't doctors wrong all the time?
A: All the time? No. Occasionally? Yes.

Q: Well doesn't that prove that you could be wrong here?
A: No. At least 6 physicians have done a thorough examination, all of which were conclusive for brain death.

Q: But you just said doctors make mistakes! What if they all made one?
A: She's also had two electroencephalograms (EEGs) which have shown no electrical activity in the brain. Live brains have electrical activity. She also had a radionuclide brain scan which showed no blood flow to her brain. Brain tissue is extraordinarily sensitive to lack of oxygen, so no blood flow means a dead brain. A computer could read a flat EEG and a blank brain flow scan. Then again, so could a 5-year old.

Q: But couldn't you still be wrong?
A: No.

86 posted on 01/10/2014 8:24:35 PM PST by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: Drango

I read a story about a baby who showed no brain waves. A number of doctors said he was “brain dead,” except for one doctor, who did not give up.

This “brain dead” baby later received mostly As in school and was quite athletic.

Medicine is always learning, and that’s a good thing.

It’s difficult for me to understand the rush on a human being’s LIFE.


87 posted on 01/10/2014 8:33:24 PM PST by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]

To: Sun
Do you think doctors are infallible?

Of course not. Doctors are human and make human mistakes. They made a mistake with Zack Dunlop who should've never been diagnosed until his brain swelling had subsided.

But in this case we are talking about 6 different physicians agreeing that Jahi is brain dead as well as and the observation of posthumous decomposition.

This whole story is making a mockery of the pro-life movement --especially lifenews.com who has chosen to champion this story as some kind of Terri Schiavo redux, making pro-lifers look like a bunch of unhinged Jesus freaks holding vigil over a rotting corpse while waiting for God to miracle her back to life.

88 posted on 01/10/2014 8:48:10 PM PST by Drew68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: JouleZ

That is what I am asking, if there are machines keeping the heart and lungs going that is a different issue.


89 posted on 01/10/2014 9:26:31 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 85 | View Replies]

To: Drango
I have made the point constantly that there should be no machine breathing for her.

I said if she were breathing without a machine she should be cared for.

90 posted on 01/10/2014 9:28:23 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: Drew68
Alright, then she is dead.

That is what I was asking about.

91 posted on 01/10/2014 9:29:18 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: Scoutmaster

Ok, then why the issue about feeding tubes, just remove the ventilator and that will resolved the issue.


92 posted on 01/10/2014 9:30:34 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: Sun
I read a story about a baby who showed no brain waves. A number of doctors said he was “brain dead,”...

See FAQ in #35

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Q: But why? All these reports can't be false, can they? I've read it on the Internet, so it must be true! The Internet would never lie to me!
A: Of course they can all be false...

93 posted on 01/10/2014 10:42:09 PM PST by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies]

To: HamiltonJay

Machines are making her heart & lungs “work.”


94 posted on 01/11/2014 4:50:00 AM PST by PghBaldy (12/14 - 930am -rampage begins... 12/15 - 1030am - Obama's advance team scouts photo-op locations.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: Morgana
Nobody posting here knows the actual facts of this case, because none of us have access to the data.

That having been said, IF she is not in fact brain dead, there's going to be hell to pay over her care up to now.

If she is in fact brain dead (which seems likely, but not proven in a public forum), then the lawyers and advocates pushing for ventilation of a dead body should be ashamed of themselves.

95 posted on 01/11/2014 5:04:08 AM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Drango

I’ve been involved with “brain death” since the beginning of the idea. I even had the chance to hear Fred Plum discuss the issues surrounding the concept, and answer questions about it. There’s no doubt brain death is a real thing, and I have made the diagnosis several times in 40 years.

That having been said, it IS a difficult concept (we bury heart-dead people right away), and the nationwide standard of practice around diagnosis does have some concerning variations.

The decision to discontinue life support for people who are NOT brain dead is fraught with complex ethical and emotional issues. Many of those same issues are visible in this case.

When a family objects, to this degree (which is very rare), it’s probably best to allow nature to take its course. True brain death does not allow prolonged survival.


96 posted on 01/11/2014 5:17:17 AM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies]

To: fortheDeclaration
Ok, then why the issue about feeding tubes, just remove the ventilator and that will resolved the issue.

The judge who ruled Jahi McMath dead took a rare, if not unprecedented, move and ruled that the family had until a certain date to find another facility to accept Jahi McMath's body. He also ruled that the hospital had to maintain cardiopulmonary support until Jahi McMath's body was removed from the hospital.

This is unusual, because when a patient is brain dead, California Health and Safety Code Section 1254.4 only requires that a hospital provide a "reasonably brief period" to the patient's family before disconnecting cardiopulmonary support.

"Reasonably brief period" means an amount of time afforded to gather family or next of kin at the patient's bedside.

After brain death, and other than cardiopulmonary support, the statute provides that "no other medical intervention is required." Hence, it's not required to provide feeding tubes or nutrition to a brain dead patient. The hospital did not do so and the judge who ruled Jahi dead did not order that nutrition be provided.

The family waited until it was right against the deadline set by the judge - the point where the hospital had the right to disconnect cardiopulmonary support - before it had the body moved.

97 posted on 01/11/2014 5:40:03 AM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 92 | View Replies]

To: PghBaldy

Not exactly, she was perhaps is on a ventilator, but her heart is still pumping au natural. So her autonomic nervous system is still functioning at some level. That’s the crux of the issue.. she’s declared brain dead but not heart dead.


98 posted on 01/11/2014 10:47:29 AM PST by HamiltonJay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies]

To: Vermont Lt

Happen to my sister
First time she walked into hospital went into cardiac arrest 2 times by the 4th day they were pulling the tubes and taking her off of everything.She breath on her own.
2nd time she fell over dead-this was 4 years later.They brought her back.Rushed to see her-no brain activity-she was dead.We waited for the machines to stop with the Chaplin and she went to God.


99 posted on 01/11/2014 10:57:57 AM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: fatima

I am sorry for your loss.


100 posted on 01/11/2014 11:18:09 AM PST by Vermont Lt (If you want to keep your dignity, you can keep it. Period........ Just kidding, you can't keep it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson