Skip to comments.The Indians HATE Their New Russian-Made Stealth Fighter
Posted on 01/22/2014 8:25:29 AM PST by C19fan
Russias new T-50 stealth fighter is fast, maneuverable, heavily-armed and hard to detect on radar. In theory.
But according to Indian air force officials, in practice the Sukhoi-made stealth jet is also too expensive, poorly engineered and powered by old and unreliable engines.
The Indians complaints illustrate the yawning gulf between stealth warplane design and the actual production of radar-evading jets. In other words, its one thing to sketch an advanced warplane on paper. Its quite another to build one and get it to work.
(Excerpt) Read more at medium.com ...
ROLF , jokes on you
“. . .in practice the Sukhoi-made stealth jet is also too expensive, poorly engineered and powered by old and unreliable engines.”
In other words, normal-normal for Russian aircraft of any make or design.
Yeah, they should stick to their casinos.
One would thing the Indians would of learned that lesson buying all the Russian crap since independence.
The Indians will end up just designing and building their own.
So, who do the Indians call for tech support?
You would think they had a brain, especially since they have bought American before (C-17). . .but apparently not.
Which will be as bad as the Russian design. . .after all, they would be copying a bad design.
I expect the Indians to get taken again when they buy production rights from the Russians so they can build their own.
Just imagine what the Mahindra knock-off is going to look like.
Maybe the Indian brass are tired of buying Russian junk just to keep the special (India-Russia) relationship going. Holding weapons procurement hostage to foreign policy considerations can be painful if the gap in reliability/capability is too great.
“The Indians complaints illustrate the yawning gulf between stealth warplane design and the actual production of radar-evading jets.”
This one had me totally baffled until I read:
“In other words, its one thing to sketch an advanced warplane on paper. Its quite another to build one and get it to work.”
That’s funny right there...
Yeah, they coulda had the F-35! LOL!!! ROTFLMAO!!!
Do you actually know anything at all about the T-50 design? It appears to me that you do not.
Sounds like the Russians sold them the “monkey” version.
Well, they got a great air-frame. Just need to replace the avionics and engines and they’ll have a great plane.
To paraphrase the article, you can draw a nice picture but building one is a completely different thing.
Their T-50 design is not DEEC and still has issues regarding low speed, high AOA throttle movement.
But I defer to your insight.
At any speed it has issues regarding LO capabilities and drag and other such mundane things. . .
Yeah, the F-35 is a piece of work, ain’t it.
F-22 is best, but of course, we all know the F-22 is prohibited from export due to its capabilities and design.
Maybe Hulka was taking the entire picture into view. You could have the best aircraft “design”, yet it could be a failure because it is not easy to maintain, it is not reliable and it costs a lot more to sustain than as advertised. Sounds like the Indians are just learning that now. So, I'd agree that, while the design might be “good”, the overall systems engineering sounds like it is lacking.
I seem to remember the F-22 having oscilation (design) problems during testing.
I doubt that the Indians could have any idea of the actual costs of maintenance and so on since the design is still not fixed, nor has a single Indian variant been produced. All I know is that every design is a result of compromise and the test is whether the design objectives AS SET have been met. On this standard, the F-35 has been an abject failure. Everyone has their own set of problems, us included.
That is precisely the Indian's plan. The Indian version of the T-50 will be far more capable than the Russian version - by design.
Sorry, but I don’t know the meaning of DEEC.
I thought this article (from the same source as the original post) was interesting.
Oh my. The part about “fearsome new weapons” made me really nervous.
I wonder what the Clintons got for those blueprints.
EVERYTHING in Russia used to be made “good enough for government work”, which, contrary to Al Gore's belief, is NOT an indication of high quality.
[I wish I knew who told AlGore the phrase “good enough for government work” meant ‘high quality’ in the first place- that person was probably laughing his ass off when AlGore used that phrase in a speech]
"Good enough for government work" is a humorous expression that used to be used in factories to indicate any old crap could be shipped off to government and you will still get paid. One place I know used to take the scrapped parts and put them in the 'government pile'.
Nearly every single weapons platform ever developed had teething issues.
There are a few cases where poorly designed hardware made it all the way into the hands of the people at the pointy end of the spear, and it worked so poorly that it was never used for the designed purpose.
Some were quietly relegated to purposes other than their primary one, and some were just dropped because technology was changing so fast that the next weapon in the pipeline just shouldered it aside with nary a peep from anyone.
a Ruskie fighter
Or a Mahindra tractor
I will take me a crate of them there AK47S and a hunting license Mr Secretary
Or some of their babes
Hey Russia has stuff of value...
“Everyone has their own set of problems, us included.”
Yes, I didn’t say we didn’t have our problems. However, the Indian customer is not happy with the Russian designed aircraft. Why — in their opinion, it is a poor design. Is it really? I don’t know, but if it doesn’t meet its design goals for its customer, it is a problemed design.
If the design is “great” and meets its design objectives “AS SET”, maybe the Russians did a very poor job at managing customer expections for the T-50. Maybe they forgot to tell the Indians that the Mean Time Between Failure for the engines was short, while the Indians expected a longer time. Maybe they forgot to mention maintenance would cost 10x what it costs for a Su27.
Bottom line, the customer (India) is very unhappy with the design so, in their eyes, it is a poor design.
Interesting but fundamentally flawd in many areas.
For example, saying “For attacking ground targets the F-22 and F-35 rely on a 500-pound, winged guided bomb that can glide up to 60 miles under optimal conditions.”
That is rubbish and an amateurish error.
The JDAM is 500lbs and fins to track via satellite guidance to the target, whereas the SDB-I/II are 250lbs and those are the ones with wings and can fly out to a classified distance with outstanding accuracy.
Tactics the article was talking about (head-on only) are just that, tactics that if we wished to do the same, and under some circumstances, we could and would.
Oh, reference to DEEC, Digital Electronic Engine Control gives a quantum leap in engine use and control by the pilot. . .without worrying about compressor stalls. While it has some level of DEEC, it does not have a true DEEC capability that permits full use during no-kidding A/A fights.
Anyway, off to do stuff.
If engine is to quit, shut down all systems, turn off power at surge strip. Then, simply restart.
WARNING: Please to make sure at altitude of 25 thousand meters before such restart operation attempt you, as can take many minutes. Below of such altitude, Prepare to activiation of Big RED Button says, "OUT-PUNCH" ... but before NYET activiatzion "GSAS" (Grammar School Avoidance System. Is wooden handle on right next to knee.) If equipped with the HAVS (Hospital Avoidance System) also pull other lever, ONLY if your model so equipeded. Then notify Help Center East Vladivostock. At time of completion you may hit "OUT PUNCH" to exit aircraft, if equipped with optional rejection seat group.
N.B.: Help Center may be closed on Russian Orthodox Holidays.
One hopes (prays actually) that Indian Air Force Maintenance is better than Indian Motel Maintenance.
IMHO, this plane is still a prototype and right now I think Indians are starting it to shake down discounts.
Their main concerns is all about engines which are still in design phase and aren’t even behind shedule.
6 billion is not too much for a technology like that. If I were Sukhoi I could have been seek partners elsewhere, including banks and own government.
They cant hate Russian Stealth plane. They dont have it yet. So...